FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[PAPPACLART]

This is all we need, FORZA 4 trumping GT5 in terms of graphics, now GT6 will take 10 years and will have 10 cars, one for each year!!


Edit

Forza 4 is indeed looking great, with T10 concentrating on more community features, something which PD should start doing. I will try the demo when it arrives, and if they can improve on the physics and feel/weight of the cars I may get it, but if it is like Forza 3 then I won't.

 

[Luminis]

I'll never understand why people say this. Of course it won't. Not all developers have a year just to focus on details & graphics, esp. when it's all in-house....

Dunno... Depends on how you factor in all of the inconsistencies in GT5. Compaaring screenshots, GT5 might very well still look better. What's going to happen with your average race, though... I don't know. There's lots of stuff going on in GT5 that kinda delutes the beautiful picture when it's in motion, in my opinion.

Of course, it's just a matter of opinion as to whether one would consider that, or not...

Input subject : ......

The cars, maybe? Looking at the ones available as pre-order and LCE bonus, In was a bit suprised with how many of them appealed to me.

 

[Sele1981]

Video looks good, GT5 and FM4 trackdesign looks very similar. I hope they improved the NS...

 

[Astro-Racer]

But now that FM matches GT5's graphics and lighting

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the lighting part.

I'm really not very impressed with turn 10's new lighting engine. Sure, it's better then FM3's but it still looks too false. It's almost as if everything is too shiney.

Watch that Nurb' footage. Practically everything in the cockpit shines with over-the-top glare. Even the road is shiney :/

To show the difference between good lighting and "realistic" lighting. Here are some pics for comparison.

Forza4:

GT5:

Forza4:

GT5:

Forza cars still don't look like they are made of metal :/

The AutoVista ones look great, but they are nothing like the cars used on the track, in regular photomode.

 

[PzR Slim]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the lighting part.

I'm really not very impressed with turn 10's new lighting engine. Sure, it's better then FM3's but it still looks too false. It's almost as if everything is too shiney.

Watch that Nurb' footage. Practically everything in the cockpit shines with over-the-top glare. Even the road is shiney :/

To show the difference between good lighting and "realistic" lighting. Here are some pics for comparison.

Forza4:

GT5:

Forza4:

GT5:

Forza cars still don't look like they are made of metal :/

The AutoVista ones look great, but they are nothing like the cars used on the track, in regular photomode.

Maybe you could post the GT5 shots in bright sunshine like the FM shots rather than full shadow.

 

[Astro-Racer]

They are all I have in my photo file at the moment.

I'll take some next time I'm playing GT5.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the lighting part.

I'm really not very impressed with turn 10's new lighting engine. Sure, it's better then FM3's but it still looks too false. It's almost as if everything is too shiney.

Watch that Nurb' footage. Practically everything in the cockpit shines with over-the-top glare. Even the road is shiney :/

To show the difference between good lighting and "realistic" lighting. Here are some pics for comparison.

Forza4:

GT5:

Forza4:

GT5:

Forza cars still don't look like they are made of metal :/

The AutoVista ones look great, but they are nothing like the cars used on the track, in regular photomode.

Why all in the shade for G5? Anyway, I really couldn't disagree more. But it's all good.

 

[zr1chris]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the lighting part.

I'm really not very impressed with turn 10's new lighting engine. Sure, it's better then FM3's but it still looks too false. It's almost as if everything is too shiney.

Watch that Nurb' footage. Practically everything in the cockpit shines with over-the-top glare. Even the road is shiney :/

To show the difference between good lighting and "realistic" lighting. Here are some pics for comparison.



Forza cars still don't look like they are made of metal :/

The AutoVista ones look great, but they are nothing like the cars used on the track, in regular photomode.

Bad comparison. Both of the Forza pics are in the sun and both the GT5 pics are in the shade.

 

[Bogie 19th]

If you want to see how both games look in action, that German video nails it.

 

[prymet1me]

I love you guys...now please stop quoting the same pic over and over. Yes the car looks beautiful.

Did anyone find out about the AI field being randomized instead of the SAME cars over and over. Cause honestly...that Veyron for the S class races was rather annoying.

 

[Hotspitta]

The cars, maybe? Looking at the ones available as pre-order and LCE bonus, In was a bit suprised with how many of them appealed to me.

Yeah there some gems in there.

The VIP Car Pack:
2011 Bugatti Veyron Super Sport
2011 Ferrari 458 Challenge
2011 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
2010 Noble M600
2011 RUF Rt 12 R

The limited quantity "Ship Bonus" car pack available for fans who order Forza 4 early:
1965 Ford Mustang GT Coupe
2011 Koenigsegg Agera
1997 Lexus SC300 V10 LFA Engine swap anyone?
2011 RUF RGT-8
2011 Tesla Roadster Sport

 

[cuco33]

SNIPPED TO SAVE BANDWIDTH

To be honest, first time I saw this I thought both cars were from the exact same game.

Like mentioned, you need shade vs shade or light vs light comparison, not light vs shade.

 

[t.o.]

OFF TOPIC: I notice the new "it" thing in automobiles lately and I'm HATING it. Anyone notice the little "vent" right before the front door on the front quarter panels? Near the side mirrors. I notice alot of new cars are putting this "design element" in their cars and I hate it. It's butt-ugly and I wish it would die hard and fast. This alone would keep me from buying a new car for a few years just till they get rid of this.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Those ports are unportly. They have them on way too many cars.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I see it as the complete opposite. FM3 has tons of feedback with my Fanatec. I get engine vibration, heavy braking, rumble, etc. with the wheel. When I go to GT5 it feels completely dead save the main forcefeedback. Forza utilizes all 3 motors in the Fanatec to give feedback to the user. The motors have specific functions. Whereas with GT5 the game only uses the main motor to try to simulate all effects. Some effects it just doesn't simulate at all. I've never felt engine vibration in GT5 with any car. Not so with FM3.

what does engine vibration has to do with track ffb? In Gt5 with ABS off I can feel weight shifting with heavy braking. I do seem to feel more ffb especially track ffb from my G27 and DFGT than my Gt3/Gt2 wheels in Gt5.

I got a Buttkicker under my seat which vibrate my Fanatec wheel a lot more than those motors. With the Buttkicker I can feel the rough pavement in both games as well as those pavement dividers in GT5 SS5 track. So I'm satisfied with both games when it comes to vibrations.

I do wish I could adjust the center spring ffb down some in Gt5 as sometimes it seems to muffs other feedbacks.
If you don't know what I'm referring to then load up LeMans track on the both games and hold the wheel steady down the long straights.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Wanna take a guess why there's no GTR2 for consoles?

Point taken, but I still think my points have some merit.

Edit: Do some of you actually think that because the hardcore sims are too hardcore, they don't sell as well as GT/Forza? Because I think if them hc sims had the same level of polish and (some) features as GT/Forza, they would've destroyed them. And GTR didn't sell well because its scope was too narrow, I think that is the main reason.

 

[Scaff]

lol well I don't agree with your justification of making thread here but anyways.

Given that it's already one of the most popular threads in this section and has sparked some good mature debate (for the most part), I would have to say that I'm gald I kept my own council on this matter.

As far as my comment about Forza not being a sim. Well there is no need for anyone to get offended or take it literally. What I actually meant is that it is bad sim.

Why should people not take what you say literally? It's also worth noting that no one got offended by it, but rather disagreed with you, you know one of the cornerstones of debate.

As for meaning its a bad sim, if that was the case why did you not say that?

I have to say that so far your reasoning is quite reminiscent of someone caught trolling and furiously trying to backpedal.

The tyres grip level in this game and some one also has debunked the steering buffer. Physics are ok I guess but that does not make it a sim.

Nothing you have stated here would dismiss FM3 from being classed as a sim, and I'm a little concerned that within the space of a sentence you are already contradicting yourself.

Forza is a sim, get over that fact and move on.

Also the nurburgring in the game is bad. People should prefer playing in on GT4 which is far superior:

Explain exactly why.

I have had enough of your throw away comments, that exist without any form of justification or explanation.

Forza is a commercial game meant for masses. I lol'd so hard when they talked about Kinect. GT is also a commercial game and is meant to be a video game but at least the guy who makes it is more genuine. We needs people like him making a game. Look at PC sims not so popular but their vision is to make proper sim. LFS I think was made by 3 guys interested in it, the graphics and many other things are crap but it is meant to good sim. Netkarpro, rfactor, SimBin are all good examples of it. That is why I have faith in Kaz that he will continue to make GT more proper sim.

If you really can't see the contradictions in this piece of your post then it does not bode well for any attempt at reasoned discussion with you.


Scaff

 

[zr1chris]

OFF TOPIC: I notice the new "it" thing in automobiles lately and I'm HATING it. Anyone notice the little "vent" right before the front door on the front quarter panels? Near the side mirrors. I notice alot of new cars are putting this "design element" in their cars and I hate it. It's butt-ugly and I wish it would die hard and fast. This alone would keep me from buying a new car for a few years just till they get rid of this.

Then why did you chose to post this here?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Then why did you chose to post this here?

Probably because the 2012 M5 above has it, and he saw it in the picture? Just a guess.

 

[Hotspitta]

I love you guys...now please stop quoting the same pic over and over. Yes the car looks beautiful.

Did anyone find out about the AI field being randomized instead of the SAME cars over and over. Cause honestly...that Veyron for the S class races was rather annoying.

Yeah me too. I really hated M.rossi in the Veyron and those guys in the f1 and Saleen. Although you could outdrive and brake him on most tracks. I loved catching up too him on the Nurb about halfway true the big Lelfthander followed by the long drop.👍

And yeah enough already with the pics.

 

[Spagetti69]

As for the comparison pictures. I am only on iPhone so I may be wrong but the underneath of the car in the GT pic looks totally black.

The Image based light source thing is supposed to eliminate that effect.

Even though in the shade the road should give off a light source ( dim one ) to show detail.

I would be more interested to see the forza pictures from a shaded view. It shouldn't be totally black.

As I say my iPhone isn't the best way to view pictures so I may be wrong about the GT pics.

IMHO.

 

[Luminis]

Yeah there some gems in there.

The VIP Car Pack:
2011 Bugatti Veyron Super Sport
2011 Ferrari 458 Challenge
2011 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
2010 Noble M600
2011 RUF Rt 12 R

The limited quantity "Ship Bonus" car pack available for fans who order Forza 4 early:
1965 Ford Mustang GT Coupe
2011 Koenigsegg Agera
1997 Lexus SC300 V10 LFA Engine swap anyone?
2011 RUF RGT-8
2011 Tesla Roadster Sport

My, that's a lot of drooling going on
Someone go get a mop.

Point taken, but I still think my points have some merit.

Edit: Do some of you actually think that because the hardcore sims are too hardcore, they don't sell as well as GT/Forza? Because I think if them hc sims had the same level of polish and (some) features as GT/Forza, they would've destroyed them. And GTR didn't sell well because its scope was too narrow, I think that is the main reason.

Pretty much. However, I think that a game with the scope of GT and Forza will be hard pressed to reach the point of sophistication with the driving physics and all that easily, or anytime soon.
Sure, on a few years, we might see games that are completely scalable from arcade gameplay to ultra-realistic simulation, inclduing content to match Forza/GT. Thing is, i think that developers are a long shot away from being able to get that done, in a profitable way at the very least.

And, well, to be frank, the majority of gamers doesn't care about how accurate the physics are. That's a debate for us, well, enthusiasts (or nerds, if you will).
So, it's not really that the games are too hardcore, that could be fixed with driving aids, if added. I just think that, at this point, the content, graphics and easily accesible gameplay of GT and Forza are taking up enough work already, both from the developer and from the hardware, so there's just no room, time or budget left to go all-out in the simulation department. And since the majority of buyers simply doesn't care, there's little incentive to do so, either.

That's my take on it, at least. because I can hardly imagine that it's really down to the developers not being able to create a good physics engine. it's just not high enough on the priority list for the games. Other features sell the games more easily...

 

[H3avyM3tal]

That's my take on it, at least. because I can hardly imagine that it's really down to the developers not being able to create a good physics engine. it's just not high enough on the priority list for the games. Other features sell the games more easily...

I can agree with that.

Also, T10 should REALLY let that stripped grass covering every grass patch in the game go. It makes every track feel like it came out of Alice in Wonderland or something. Even that beautiful rendering of the Nurb GP gets destroyed because of that (unless thats the way the grass look in RL, and then I just don't like it).

I really find that hard to believe someone with any sense of art style making this type of grass, reserved to sports where people actually sport on it...

 

[kimi123]

Given that it's already one of the most popular threads in this section and has sparked some good mature debate (for the most part), I would have to say that I'm gald I kept my own council on this matter.



Why should people not take what you say literally? It's also worth noting that no one got offended by it, but rather disagreed with you, you know one of the cornerstones of debate.

As for meaning its a bad sim, if that was the case why did you not say that?

I have to say that so far your reasoning is quite reminiscent of someone caught trolling and furiously trying to backpedal.



Nothing you have stated here would dismiss FM3 from being classed as a sim, and I'm a little concerned that within the space of a sentence you are already contradicting yourself.

Forza is a sim, get over that fact and move on.



Explain exactly why.

I have had enough of your throw away comments, that exist without any form of justification or explanation.



If you really can't see the contradictions in this piece of your post then it does not bode well for any attempt at reasoned discussion with you.


Scaff

Whatever

People can like whatever they want

 

[Scaff]

Whatever

People can like whatever they want

Please show me exactly when I told you what to like?

I have not come even close to doing so, and as I would strongly suggest that you do not imply again that I have done. Do not try and put words in any ones mouth.

What I have done is ask you to follow the rules laid down in the original post of this thread, rules that do carry the weight of the AUP.....

You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content.

....in this case it refers to any post that does not meet the guidelines laid out in the OP.


As I have said, you are not being told what to like (not even close), but you are being told to stop making sweeping statements without any form of justification or reasoning.


Scaff

 

[prymet1me]

At once I thought Scaff was too quick on the trigger but I have man love for him now because of the way he is keeping this thread healthy.

And yes Spitta you could out drive him but the lack of randomizing the field made some races a little stale. GT5 had some random fields and even had tuned or de tuned cars for some races I just thought that little touch was nice.

 

[Astro-Racer]

As for the comparison pictures. I am only on iPhone so I may be wrong but the underneath of the car in the GT pic looks totally black.

It's the other way around on a monitor. The underneath is totally black in the Forza 4 shot. And slightly lit in the GT5 shot.

Probably due to the fact that Turn 10 seem to have applied some heavy-handed contrast to their pics.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Mine shows the Forza shot lit under and the GT5 version dark. In fact, the FM shot on top shows the back, inside of the rim of the right rear.

 

[McLaren]

Must be your monitor. I can see the road perfectly underneath the 135i, but the M5 is near pitch black in the 1st 2 photos. The 2nd set is hard to say because you're looking at the M5 from the side.

Regardless, one has the sun shining down on top of it, & the other doesn't.

 

[t.o.]

One reason why the "hardcore sims" don't sell well on consoles is because there's almost no advertising for them. I didn't even know this GTR existed on the console till recently and I heard of Race Pro before but I thought it was just going to be another Test Drive or PGR or something. It wasn't till sorta recently I discovered what it truly was. Meanwhile everybody and their mother heard of Forza , GT , PGR and the like.