FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[dzidza]

I got the Porsche 911 Turbo S and I don't have the last firmware. But I do have , or did have , ABS on. Next time I have the racing rig in the living room with the PS3 I'll test it out.

This is news for me also, will try that

 

[Sele1981]

I got the Porsche 911 Turbo S and I don't have the last firmware. But I do have , or did have , ABS on. Next time I have the racing rig in the living room with the PS3 I'll test it out.

I don´t know if this works with the 911 Turbo S... Give it a try...

Here, take a look in this thread, same question...

EDIT: Haha I see, I had the same problem there ^^
By the way, my GT3 is 6 months old? God damn I thought 2 or 3 months... Have not played that much...

 

[Hotspitta]

You know what. I didn't watch this vid completely until now (wife,phone, life ughhh) but this wraps up my whole argument without even being the subject of the argument. It almost feels like they are talking about the games rather than the cars. Even the specifics sound like it. I agree, Mclaren=Gt5 and the Ferrari=Forza 3 in my opinion also. Now you make me wanna hook my rig up and do some laps with the Ferrari.

Haha its was weird the first time i saw it. soo much similarities Here's a good link 👍

I find that video to me is also more like Shift 2 vs Forza/GT, Forza and GT you can just jump in and play and they feel good and drive well, where Shift 2 can drive better but you have to put the time and effort into it to get there.

I dissagree, but good hearing your opinion.👍

 

[kimi123]

Well that contribution is well thought out and reasoned.

Did you fail to read the opening post as requested? Had you done so you would know full well that it's flame bait comments like this that are not welcome in this thread.

Feel free to contribute, but do it with more than a throw away comment designed to do little more than start an argument.



Because I created it here.


No, it should be here, that's why I created it here.

This subforum contains a high number of topics that have been dragged off-topic by GT vs FM discussions, as such this is total the correct place for it to be.



Forza simulates the look (exterior and interior) of licensed cars, it simulates the physics of a car in motion and the forces acting upon it, it simulates the effect of damage on the cars, it simulates the effect changing the parameters of the car (upgrades and tuning), that would seem to hit all the buttons required to call it a sim.

I have no idea if your comment was made out of ignorance or a deliberate intention to cause trouble, but its a false statement and one that even those who dislike the physics engine in FM would be happy to agree with.

Forza is a sim and trying to claim otherwise starts getting rather close to this part of the AUP:



As has been said, if you don't like the way in which FM3 simulates the physics of driving then explain those point and do it in a mature manner.

Do not simply say its not a sim, as that is quite clearly inaccurate.


Scaff

lol well I don't agree with your justification of making thread here but anyways. As far as my comment about Forza not being a sim. Well there is no need for anyone to get offended or take it literally. What I actually meant is that it is bad sim.

The tyres grip level in this game and some one also has debunked the steering buffer. Physics are ok I guess but that does not make it a sim.

Also the nurburgring in the game is bad. People should prefer playing in on GT4 which is far superior:



Forza is a commercial game meant for masses. I lol'd so hard when they talked about Kinect. GT is also a commercial game and is meant to be a video game but at least the guy who makes it is more genuine. We needs people like him making a game. Look at PC sims not so popular but their vision is to make proper sim. LFS I think was made by 3 guys interested in it, the graphics and many other things are crap but it is meant to good sim. Netkarpro, rfactor, SimBin are all good examples of it. That is why I have faith in Kaz that he will continue to make GT more proper sim.

 

[Luminis]

GT is also a commercial game
[...]
That is why I have faith in Kaz that he will continue to make GT more proper sim.

See the contradiction there? Hardcore sims just don't sell as well as the simcade games like GT5, Forza, Shift and so on. Neither Forza, nor GT, nor Shift is going to go as hardcore as rFatcor or iRacing.
Some GT/Forza/Shift players might think that they're hardcore, but chances are, if you are hardcore, you're playing PC sims for your hardcore needs, anyways. And I doubt that'll change anytime soon.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I lol'd so hard when they talked about Kinect.

How hard did you laugh when you found out GT5 supported Move's camera?

 

[t.o.]

See the contradiction there? Hardcore sims just don't sell as well as the simcade games like GT5, Forza, Shift and so on. Neither Forza, nor GT, nor Shift is going to go as hardcore as rFatcor or iRacing.
Some GT/Forza/Shift players might think that they're hardcore, but chances are, if you are hardcore, you're playing PC sims for your hardcore needs, anyways. And I doubt that'll change anytime soon.

Well said, well said. Anyone should be able to tell that neither GT5 nor Forza can hold a candle to the PC sims. GT5 users are fooled into thinking it's the ultimate sim because it's harder. Problem is most of these cars aren't "hard" to drive. Forza can be too forgiving sometimes. (I still say people should take the Stingray Vette around the track, maybe like Maple Gardens, that's crazy)

 

[phil-t]

This is quite a good video that shows FM4 Vs FM3 vs GT5 in BMW M5's around the Nurb GT.
http://xboxfront.wl.gamereport.de/v...eplay-und-Videovergleich-mit-Forza-3-und-GT5/

All I can say is, FM4's cockpit and lighting is miles ahead of FM3, and GT5 is still a really good looking game..

 

[kimi123]

How hard did you laugh when you found out GT5 supported Move's camera?

Kinect can be used to drive the car in the game too.

See the contradiction there? Hardcore sims just don't sell as well as the simcade games like GT5, Forza, Shift and so on. Neither Forza, nor GT, nor Shift is going to go as hardcore as rFatcor or iRacing.
Some GT/Forza/Shift players might think that they're hardcore, but chances are, if you are hardcore, you're playing PC sims for your hardcore needs, anyways. And I doubt that'll change anytime soon.

The problem with PC sims is that all those games are basically online only, graphics and details on cars are not upto standard and setups are too important rather than just skill. They are lacking in many things as well.

As I said Kaz is more genuine. Recently he participated in 24hrs race at Nurburgring. Many people I know play Forza those who are not interested in sims. As dan would say this is racing game for all. He is good in giving lecture, interviews

 

[Bogie 19th]

Kinect can be used to drive the car in the game too.

I can use my toes with my steering wheel too, so what is your point?

Many people I know play Forza those who are not interested in sims. As dan would say this is racing game for all. He is good in giving lecture, interviews

Many people I know play GT and are not interested in sims. That is a good thing IMO.

 

[cuco33]

lol well I don't agree with your justification of making thread here but anyways. As far as my comment about Forza not being a sim. Well there is no need for anyone to get offended or take it literally. What I actually meant is that it is bad sim.

The tyres grip level in this game and some one also has debunked the steering buffer. Physics are ok I guess but that does not make it a sim.

Also the nurburgring in the game is bad. People should prefer playing in on GT4 which is far superior:

Forza is a commercial game meant for masses. I lol'd so hard when they talked about Kinect. GT is also a commercial game and is meant to be a video game but at least the guy who makes it is more genuine. We needs people like him making a game. Look at PC sims not so popular but their vision is to make proper sim. LFS I think was made by 3 guys interested in it, the graphics and many other things are crap but it is meant to good sim. Netkarpro, rfactor, SimBin are all good examples of it. That is why I have faith in Kaz that he will continue to make GT more proper sim.

I too am NOT a fan of the Kinect driving but if it gets my girl, sis, mom or a non gamer to play and enjoy it, even with massive assists like auto brake when using it with Kinect... I'm fine with it. They want to open it up to everyone, not exclude people from enjoying the game. I'm OK with the AutoVista mode but I'll most likely be using that mode with controller. It's the head tracking part that has me interested.
BTW, if you call GT a sim, then call Forza a sim. These 2 franchises are the closest to each other of all games. Both do things right just as they do things wrong. You are in the wrong if you pit Forza against a NFS game but not GT.

Many people I know play Forza those who are not interested in sims. As dan would say this is racing game for all. He is good in giving lecture, interviews

I would peg that the vast majority of people playing a GT or a Forza game are not interested in a full sim experience. They can go off saying they do but in the end the majority playing these games do so with controller and usually with assists on, wall grind, bump n run race and usually overpower cars to beat the competition. You only need to go online with both to really see what I mean.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I would peg that the vast majority of people playing a GT or a Forza game are not interested in a full sim experience. They can go off saying they do but in the end the majority playing these games do so with controller and usually with assists on, wall grind, bump n run race and usually overpower cars to beat the competition. You only need to go online with both to really see what I mean.

So true 👎

 

[Luminis]

Kinect can be used to drive the car in the game too.

So, options are bad? it's not like Forza forces you to do so, it just allows you to do so.

The problem with PC sims is that all those games are basically online only,

Looking at the hardcore market, that's what they want. And, let's be honest, if you want a challenge in FM3 and GT5, you'll have to go online as well. At least if you're not going to tie both arms to your back by driving a seriously underpowered car.

graphics and details on cars are not upto standard

True. But, that's the difference between the potential buyers for simcade games and true sims. The sim palyers won't care much if the graphics are not exactly top notch, because they care mostly about the driving, not about taking pictures or looking at replays. For the simcade demographic, that is important, though. A true sim will always put its physics over anything else, quite unlike GT and Forza (and Shift) which will need their eye candy too attract buyers.

and setups are too important

As they are in real life. Do you think Vettel would win if someone without any knowledge set his car up for him? Tuning a car properly is skill, one that's much needed in racing, by the way.

rather than just skill.

Racing isn't chess, you know. Also, go to the iRacing boards, tell'em you're a GT palyer and tell'em their game's more about setups than skill. Not gonna end well, not at all.

They are lacking in many things as well.

Yeah, to you, they are. To me, as well. Because we're not the demographic they're aiming for. If one of your first concerns about a game is whether it looks good, you're just not the kind of player the hardcore sims are shooting for.
GT/Forza will give uss graphics and huge amounts of cars to tinker with on a basic level, iRacing and the like will give you the most realistic racing possible.

Another example for the different groups of players they're aiming for: Console sims are mostly payed with pads. PC sims? They're tailored to wheel users.

As I said Kaz is more genuine. Recently he participated in 24hrs race at Nurburgring. Many people I know play Forza those who are not interested in sims. As dan would say this is racing game for all. He is good in giving lecture, interviews

See, I respect Kaz's efforts in racing. I just don't see how that makes the game any better. All I'm seeing is a guy that's supposed to be making a game is driving a car instead. Not that that's a bad thing, but if the developers want a driver's feedback, they should get themselves a driver.

Kaz has been doing this racing stuff for quite a while now, and yet, i see nothing of that in GT5. If we're talking about just the racing, then even Shift is better in that regard (note that I'm talking about racing, not driving).
At the end of the day, I want the games to be made by people that know how to make the game the best it can be, not by someone who knows how to race a car. Because, frankly, that doesn't seem to help any with developing the game.

I would peg that the vast majority of people playing a GT or a Forza game are not interested in a full sim experience.

My point exactly. That's why I mentioned people playing GT and Forza with pads for the most part, as opposed to PC sims, where wheels are much more popular.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Well said, well said. Anyone should be able to tell that neither GT5 nor Forza can hold a candle to the PC sims. GT5 users are fooled into thinking it's the ultimate sim because it's harder. Problem is most of these cars aren't "hard" to drive. Forza can be too forgiving sometimes. (I still say people should take the Stingray Vette around the track, maybe like Maple Gardens, that's crazy)

The only reason that proper pc sims don't sell is because they don't have funding and backing of companies like Sony or Microsoft. If they did, they would sell like hot cakes.

 

[Luminis]

The only reason that proper pc sims don't sell is because they don't have funding and backing of companies like Sony or Microsoft. If they did, they would sell like hot cakes.

Just look at games like GTR2. That kind of game never really sold well. Why would GT/FM risk losing customers only to claim they're becoming more hardcore? They'll be going with what works best and looking at past hardcore console sims, that's not what's working best.

 

[Hotspitta]

The tyres grip level in this game (You mean GT5 right?) and some one also has debunked the steering buffer.(Grant you that) Physics are ok I guess but that does not make it a sim.

Also the nurburgring in the game is bad. People should prefer playing in on GT4 which is far superior:

Forza is a commercial game meant for masses. I lol'd so hard when they talked about Kinect. GT is also a commercial game and is meant to be a video game but at least the guy who makes it is more genuine. We needs people like him making a game.

Muwhhahahawhwhwhahwa i lold so hard when i read your comment:tdown:

You know what bad sim is? racing softs, Low speed and high speed physics (Unable to do donuts in GT5) LOLZ , Paint chips, Ai with the IQ of a turd, Terrible car damage, Impact sounds (may i lol) Ferrari 458 sounds like hairdryer Shall i go on? Stop trolling so much. It will only get you so far...

And the argument about those other sims is very trollish, have you read the topic of this thread or what?. They dont have a the cool cars Forza has and Gt lacks..bam!

You are right about the Nurb. It is really well done in Gt5 too bad the rest of the game is so bad.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Just look at games like GTR2. That kind of game never really sold well. Why would GT/FM risk losing customers only to claim they're becoming more hardcore? They'll be going with what works best and looking at past hardcore console sims, that's not what's working best.

I think it has to do with being PC only and in a time when console gaming was really on the rise (I think just when the Xbox360 and PS3 were coming out, or a year after).

If these games were to come over to consoles, then the crowd would absolutely eat them.

Edit: And I also think that we are getting a bit off track here, so I will add my opinion and say that, while I am getting F4, I still have my concerns about the feel of the game. F3 was boring to me (had none of the soul GT has), and I hope F4 will remedy that, good physics or not.

 

[McLaren]

The problem with PC sims is that all those games are basically online only, graphics and details on cars are not upto standard

Because that's not the focus of the game like the one this forum centers around.

and setups are too important rather than just skill. They are lacking in many things as well.

I'm going to look past the, "LOL, at Kaz. went into the 24H Nur" comment. Not seeing how that makes him anymore special after the way GT turned out. Maybe next time, he'll take a page from Yu Suzuki.

 

[Luminis]

I think it has to do with being PC only and in a time when console gaming was really on the rise (I think just when the Xbox360 and PS3 were coming out, or a year after).

If these games were to come over to consoles, then the crowd would absolutely eat them.

Wanna take a guess why there's no GTR2 for consoles?

Edit: And I also think that we are getting a bit off track here, so I will add my opinion and say that, while I am getting F4, I still have my concerns about the feel of the game. F3 was boring to me (had none of the soul GT has), and I hope F4 will remedy that, good physics or not.

I still don't get that "soul" thing.

My biggest concern with FM4: Porsch enot being in. Would suck. Second: Widened 'Ring. Would be much more of an issue to me than Porsche, too.

 

[HadOne2Many]

Here's a video of the Nurburgring GP that compares FM3 vs FM4 then FM4 vs GT5.

http://www.xboxfront.de/videos-2206-2047-Forza_Motorsport_4.html

 

[Luminis]

Here's a video of the Nurburgring GP that compares FM3 vs FM4 then FM4 vs GT5.

http://www.xboxfront.de/videos-2206-2047-Forza_Motorsport_4.html

Posted abpove already, although it seems that nobody really noticed it...
But, since it's in German, I'll quote the short summary of what the commentator say from the other thread:

The commentator's mentioning how it feels significantly more challenging to get a perfect lap in FM4 than it was in FM3, the grip levels seem to be much improved.
Force Feedback is also improved, giving precise feedback of what the car is doing, which makes the game intuitive and good to control.
Overall, with all aids off, the game's much more deemanding and challenging, but it appears to be pretty authentic, fair and controllable at all times.

Don't know the guys who did that hands on, so I don't know whether to take what they said seriously. Then again, it matches well with what ISR said.

Anyways, the game looks great, that's for sure.

 

[HadOne2Many]

Posted abpove already, although it seems that nobody really noticed it...
But, since it's in German, I'll quote the short summary of what the commentator say from the other thread:

lol, sorry. This thread is moving too fast for me to keep up. Thanks for translating though.

 

[Hotspitta]

Here's a video of the Nurburgring GP that compares FM3 vs FM4 then FM4 vs GT5.

http://www.xboxfront.de/videos-2206-2047-Forza_Motorsport_4.html

Awesome video, they finally got the colors right, remember the grass was too green This game will rock i might even say it looks better than Gt5 from the cockpit view. Its 10 times better than it was in FM3 by the looks off it.

For a better viewing here's the HD link the detail is just stunning.

http://xboxfront.wl.gamereport.de/v/JlJj7w7eluL/Forza-Motorsport-4/N%C3%BCrburgring-Gameplay-und-Videovergleich-mit-Forza-3-und-GT5/

New pics of the new M5.

 

[dzidza]

Awesome video, they finally got the colors right, remember the grass was too green This game will rock i might even say it looks better than Gt5 from the cockpit view. Its 10 times better than it was in FM3 by the looks off it.

For a better viewing here's the HD link the detail is just stunning.


New pics of the new M5.

Poor Forza 4, look at the sky, it's like the sun is coming from each corner of the map, and it has to much HDR. Unfortunately for me it's still not on par with gt5 graphics, but that doesn't concerns me to much :-).

 

[Bogie 19th]

Awesome video, they finally got the colors right, remember the grass was too green This game will rock i might even say it looks better than Gt5 from the cockpit view. Its 10 times better than it was in FM3 by the looks off it.

For a better viewing here's the HD link the detail is just stunning.

http://xboxfront.wl.gamereport.de/v/JlJj7w7eluL/Forza-Motorsport-4/N%C3%BCrburgring-Gameplay-und-Videovergleich-mit-Forza-3-und-GT5/

New pics of the new M5.

Oh yeah...indeed. They nailed it this time, and have raised the bar.

 

[Spagetti69]

Poor Forza 4, look at the sky, it's like the sun is coming from each corner of the map, and it has to much HDR. Unfortunately for me it's still not on par with gt5 graphics, but that doesn't concerns me to much :-).

A camera recording off screen is too early to make judgements either way.
IMHO off course.

 

[Luminis]

A camera recording off screen is too early to make judgements either way.
IMHO off course.

Yeah, it's too early for a final verdict in terms of FM4 vs. GT5. There's too many important details that'd have to be evaluated there.
But it's enough to tell that they improved considerably, compared to FM3.

 

[McLaren]

Poor Forza 4, look at the sky, it's like the sun is coming from each corner of the map, and it has to much HDR. Unfortunately for me it's still not on par with gt5 graphics, but that doesn't concerns me to much :-).

I'll never understand why people say this. Of course it won't. Not all developers have a year just to focus on details & graphics, esp. when it's all in-house....

 

[Bogie 19th]

Judging by the gameplay in that German video, at least in cockpit view on that track, FM4 takes nod visually.

 

[Hotspitta]

Yeah, it's too early for a final verdict in terms of FM4 vs. GT5. There's too many important details that'd have to be evaluated there.
But it's enough to tell that they improved considerably, compared to FM3.

Agreed I think the debate should not be about which game looks more photorealistic. But now that FM matches GT5's graphics and lighting the debate can now go too other more important subjects. 👍

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