SuperShouden
(Banned)
- 7,542
- SuperShouden
You know what, Forza 2's non-existent roll over physics are better than the arcadey, and, crappy rollover physics in FM3.
FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)
- Thread starter Scaff
- 8,743 comments
- 536,094 views
You know what, Forza 2's non-existent roll over physics are better than the arcadey, and, crappy rollover physics in FM3.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
I've not heard that argument^.
I will be playing regardless of Porsche, night racing or dirt racing.
Just for the record.
I will be playing regardless of Porsche, night racing or dirt racing.
Just for the record.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,462
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I was thinking the same thing. Did he wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? Maybe its just that time of the month.
Was my first post outlining the requirements for posting in this thread that forgettable?
Or did you just feel like ignoring the staff for the hell of it?
This thread is a much needed and valid discussion topic, as such I will quite happily give members who can't follow the AUP and it's rather simple requirements a holiday from GT Planet. How long that holiday will be depends entirely how much you intend to ignore the AUP.
Scaff
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
Ok taken onboard Scaff.
Back to the roll over physics debate. Am I wrong in remembering that PD have stated that some manufacturers would not let cars roll?
Back to the roll over physics debate. Am I wrong in remembering that PD have stated that some manufacturers would not let cars roll?
- 9,295
- Duisburg
I don't remember reading something like that... Stuff that the cars may not show damage to the pessenger area and may not stop running completely, but aside from that, it seemed like it was fair game.
But I wouldn't be suprised if roll over doesn't get that much attention from the devs - it's not that common, to be honest.
But I wouldn't be suprised if roll over doesn't get that much attention from the devs - it's not that common, to be honest.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,462
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Thank you
Ford used to have a clause in the licensing agreement that didn't allow roll-over of passenger cars (race spec were fine), but I don't think its been in place for a while now.
Scaff
- 2,414
ditto
I thought I read that somewhere also but who knows. I know the stuff that Luminis said is correct though. Also the amount of damage is also probably a sticking point with them. I believe FM2 had a tech demo where the damage was outstanding with engine blocks flying out of cars and more carnage than we have now but it was stated that certain manufacturers wouldn't allow it. Would have love to see that in action though.
Man this game can't come fast enough. BUT DON'T RUSH IT! lol
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Anyways, looking at Shift 2, I think it's quite safe to assume that most manufacturers are okay with allowing their cars to roll over.
I don't know whether there were trouble with this in the past, but I doubt there'll be much in the future
Personally, I think the limited amount of damage is more of an "issue", if you can call it an issue, that is...
I don't know whether there were trouble with this in the past, but I doubt there'll be much in the future
Personally, I think the limited amount of damage is more of an "issue", if you can call it an issue, that is...
- 2,414
You know what. I didn't watch this vid completely until now (wife,phone, life ughhh) but this wraps up my whole argument without even being the subject of the argument. It almost feels like they are talking about the games rather than the cars. Even the specifics sound like it. I agree, Mclaren=Gt5 and the Ferrari=Forza 3 in my opinion also. Now you make me wanna hook my rig up and do some laps with the Ferrari.
PS: Anyone know anyone using the Openwheeler racing rig? Need some reviews on it.
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- 746
- dukie827
I love both racing games for what they offer and ignore what they lack. That's about it.
- 1,214
One of the things Gt5 has that is totally lacking in Fm3 is track ffb. Going back to Fm3 after Gt5 the first thing I notice is no track feel. (wished Gt5 had even more) Fm3 does have tire slip angle ffb that is missing in Gt5. ISR said it has been improved in Fm4 but it doesn't sound very promising to us hardcore fans when ISR brings up ffb the Turn 10 guy changes the subject to Kinect.
Using Kinect vs a controller to look around the car sounds about as interesting to me as going back to getting up to change the TV and antenna dial vs remote control.
Using Kinect vs a controller to look around the car sounds about as interesting to me as going back to getting up to change the TV and antenna dial vs remote control.
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- 219
I find another comparison in that video, watching Tiff & Plato is like reading people with proper physics understandings comments on GT5/Forza3, whereas watching Top Gear is like the casual gamer giving their generalised opinions 
I find that video to me is also more like Shift 2 vs Forza/GT, Forza and GT you can just jump in and play and they feel good and drive well, where Shift 2 can drive better but you have to put the time and effort into it to get there.
Anyway, why are we debating Forza 2 not having rollovers when the GT series didn't have them till GT5? Same problem for both games there, at least Forza 2 had visible damage.
I find that video to me is also more like Shift 2 vs Forza/GT, Forza and GT you can just jump in and play and they feel good and drive well, where Shift 2 can drive better but you have to put the time and effort into it to get there.
Anyway, why are we debating Forza 2 not having rollovers when the GT series didn't have them till GT5? Same problem for both games there, at least Forza 2 had visible damage.
- 2,414
I see it as the complete opposite. FM3 has tons of feedback with my Fanatec. I get engine vibration, heavy braking, rumble, etc. with the wheel. When I go to GT5 it feels completely dead save the main forcefeedback. Forza utilizes all 3 motors in the Fanatec to give feedback to the user. The motors have specific functions. Whereas with GT5 the game only uses the main motor to try to simulate all effects. Some effects it just doesn't simulate at all. I've never felt engine vibration in GT5 with any car. Not so with FM3.
I find another comparison in that video, watching Tiff & Plato is like reading people with proper physics understandings comments on GT5/Forza3, whereas watching Top Gear is like the casual gamer giving their generalised opinions
I find that video to me is also more like Shift 2 vs Forza/GT, Forza and GT you can just jump in and play and they feel good and drive well, where Shift 2 can drive better but you have to put the time and effort into it to get there.
Oh, the wannabe Clarksons of the video game world. Where would we be without them? I don't know why it's considered a good idea to emulate a prize boor, but without even the slender traces of wit or any of the driving experience present in the original model. But there sure seem to be a lot of cartoonish ignoramuses who think it's an awesome idea.
It amazes me how far behind GRID and Flatout both GT and Forza are in terms of representing visual damage. It's not as if those are particularly new or ambitious games to compare them to, either.
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- 2,414
Ah, that's two issues:
1) To the extent that damage is allowed, GRID does a much better job in indicating the damage state between the same damage type (eg blown engine, dented bumper, whatever).
2) To the extent that manufacturers control what can be shown in terms of damage, they're surprisingly game these days. Blur and Shift 2 have pretty much reset what you can get away with showing happening to a production car from a big manufacturer. Not sure it counts as something to hide behind anymore.
1) To the extent that damage is allowed, GRID does a much better job in indicating the damage state between the same damage type (eg blown engine, dented bumper, whatever).
2) To the extent that manufacturers control what can be shown in terms of damage, they're surprisingly game these days. Blur and Shift 2 have pretty much reset what you can get away with showing happening to a production car from a big manufacturer. Not sure it counts as something to hide behind anymore.
- 2,414
You may indeed be correct. I have no idea. What we're doing is speculating at this point. I do know that Grid and Blur, from my best recollection , don't have the extensive car list as a Forza and GT does. And all it takes is one manufacturer to say no and that kills it for the rest of the game for parity sakes. Secondly those games don't have model years for their cars. So it may be a thing were Grid is talk about "a Chevy Vette" whereas FM3 is talking about "the 2005 Chevy Vette". Maybe it's an issue of specifying a specific car versus a generalization of one. Until someone unveils the inside going ons we'll never know. It just seems that if Turn10 already had something cooking and wanted to use it I don't see the reason they'd hold back if they didn't have to.
- 2,338
- Southeast MI
- BubbleBelly542
Scaff
How dare you assume I did it to start an argument. I did it somewhat sarcastically though now I see that was a terrible choice because it's hard to know that through the internet. Anyways, please indicate where thy resulted in an argument other than this which was brought upon by you.
Also, you are right I should have read the first post like the title said. I didn't really read it to be honest because I saw Forza vs. GT and was drawn in. I don't have any input because I don't have an XboX and therefore I would be biased. I only said PS3 because I have one and I was NOT being serious.
Apologies
- 34
- HoosierJake
- Hoosier Jake
I own both games and for me these are the merits of each game:
Forza
-PORSCHES
-Livery editor
-All cars "premium"
-Cars sound more realistic in my opinion
-Performance classes in addition to PP
GT5
-Pretty much everything else
Forza
-PORSCHES
-Livery editor
-All cars "premium"
-Cars sound more realistic in my opinion
-Performance classes in addition to PP
GT5
-Pretty much everything else
- 593
- Lohmar, Germany
- jabofu
- DAG JaboFu
Watch from 01:20 min, there is plenty of real rollover.
http://youtu.be/sWKPlteim1o
Now the Dodge Ram in Forza 3:
http://youtu.be/sY-Hnx3z_vc
It pretty much shows that the rollover is pretty much accurate.
- 342
- Haifa
- Tomeru
- Tomeru
I apologize. I didn't see your replay before.
- 2,727
- Sele1981
Yeah I agree with that, I really like the engine vibration in FM3...
You can have this in GT5 too but then, unfortunately, you got to turn ABS off but I´ll preffer ABS... But in GT5 it is hardware simulated, in FM3 it seems programed...
What I can´t understand, the T10 guy in that insisdesimracing interview says that they´ve not changed the FFB a lot in FM4 "it was not our main focus"... But then they made a deal with Fanatec... WTH? They made a great deal and bring out an fantastic wheel but then not focus on FFB effects
- 4,038
- United States
You know, the only time I have seen anything related to certain cars/manufacturers allowing/preventing certain items from being damaged/rolled over is in forums like this. I have never really seen it come from the manufacturers. Are the devs making these claims, are are the PR releases from each manufacturer that talk about what they allow/disallow. I find that all pretty interesting.
It's all good in the hood.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,462
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Mine came from an interview with the head of Ford marketing in regard to discussion about licencing product in games, I have linked to it a few times here at GT Planet over the years. I will see if I can find it again, but it is old.
Here you go.....https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2776989#post2776989
Oh - that and I have worked for/with most of the major manufacturers over the years.
Scaff
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- 4,038
- United States
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