FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Luminis]

Gt didn't wanted rain, but fans inssisted weather. And GT is running 1,5x times bigger resolution. To much stuff was asked for GT5 by the fans and I personaly think also Sony screwed up also by revealing things that was supposed to be in GT6 but were then rushed into GT5.

Seriously, it's the developer's duty to sift through the various things that the fans might want and make a good call on what to implement and which requests to ignore.

I never new it was the fans decision.

I think if it was just up to PD, the game would basically consist of nothing but collectible horns, paint chips, cars, the Nordschleife and the museum cards, of course

 

[Spagetti69]

I remember Kaz mentioning that he wasn't interested in Damage and that the fans wanted it.

I'm pretty sure that fans would like features, which come to be considered the norm, present in there games.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I still highly doubt that that's anywhere near the difference between people becoming sea sick, or not.

Then again, maybe It's just me being super sensitive to the screen tearing and frame rate drops and generally everything in terms of graphics
Considering that I'm nearly blind without my glasses makes that a bit of an absurd thought, but, whatever...

You may be since it's known some people are so sensitive it could result in them having seizures.

 

[HKS racer]

What about physics? Will the cars stick to the ground? Is there any realistic suspension movement like GTR2?

 

[Luminis]

You may be since it's known some people are so sensitive it could result in them having seizures.

I don't really know how sensitive I am. I noticed the FM3 model swap as well, but I do think both are kinda obvious. GT's graphical flaws are just that much more annoying to me.

What about physics? Will the cars stick to the ground? Is there any realistic suspension movement like GTR2?

All we've heard is, that it's much improved. According to Inside Sim Racing, the best on consoles so far. Dunno what to make out of that, though.

 

[VXR]

As long as it isn't the usual hard controls = realism then I'll be happy.

I don't think many cars released in the last 15 years at least has been hard to drive, fast or otherwise. Plus, you have to hope the new Pirelli deal gives you a squidgy zone of movement where you can really lean on the tyres within the lateral grip.

 

[InSight]

I don't really know how sensitive I am. I noticed the FM3 model swap as well, but I do think both are kinda obvious. GT's graphical flaws are just that much more annoying to me.

lol, i have the same problem. Tearing, aliasing, ugly shadows, i just CAN'T look, literally, past these and into the race/physics department. When i'm staring into such anomalies it's like someone is stabbing me in the eyes every second of the race. But only in cockpit view, hood view was better, since there were no shadows.

It's the same with sound, if it sounds wrong, i'd rather not play the game at all, than listen to that annoying buzzing.

 

[t.o.]

lol, i have the same problem. Tearing, aliasing, ugly shadows, i just CAN'T look, literally, past these and into the race/physics department. When i'm staring into such anomalies it's like someone is stabbing me in the eyes every second of the race. But only in cockpit view, hood view was better, since there were no shadows.

It's the same with sound, if it sounds wrong, i'd rather not play the game at all, than listen to that annoying buzzing.

Well then let me relieve your senses with a little vid I just put together of mini-series of races I just put together. I'm thinking about how fun this is going to be in FM4.

 

[Hotspitta]

Well then let me relieve your senses with a little vid I just put together of mini-series of races I just put together. I'm thinking about how fun this is going to be in FM4.

This might do that job a bit better though.
Just imagine this with Forza 4 graphics and Audio...grrrrr..

 

[t.o.]

This might do that job a bit better though.
Just imagine this with Forza 4 graphics and Audio...grrrrr..

Great video. I would love to do a video like that but the time invested in putting something like that together has to be pretty high. I guess if he's done enough of them it gets easier. That would probably take me a few days to put that together. lol.

One day I'll do a hot video like that. I recognize one of those gamertags also. Think he's still on my friendslist.

 

[Sele1981]

Where has the "FM3 review" thread gone?

I play FM3 with my GT2 wheel for 2 weeks now and I still get no rhythm for this game. Really, the cars feel different each time you enter an corner... Physics are really not my thing...

I don´t like the graphics and the lighting, the cars look (in race) like cheap plastic Playmobil cars.

I still can´t hear the engine correctly, I mostly miss shifting because I can´t hear it when I got to shift...

I can´t find the braking points...

On the other side, the AI is very impressive! Even if it seems like (in hard mode) the AI cars have more power than my car (the same as AI), the AI is awesome! I wish we would have even 50% of that AI in GT5... I have had some great challenging races, even if I get no racing flair, the AI fights for it´s position and acts fair (if you not hit him).

Mechanical damage is impressive, shifting or engine damage is great... (optical damage is worse, you hit the back and the front gets damaged as well lol)...

Anyway, the (for me) most important things, physics and graphics, are not the real thing...

Going back to GT5 was a blessing

Anyway, it can only get better with FM4 and I´m excited to play it in 3 months

 

[Luminis]

Where has the "FM3 review" thread gone?

Locked, because it actually was more like a rant thread/Forza bash thread disguised as a review of the game.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I just wanted to point out that I find it kinda strange that FM3 gets a lot of flack for the sacrifices T10 made in order to keep the framerate up, while, at the same time, the sacrifices GT5 made seem to be perfectly fine to some people.

Granted, GT5 didn't do it by swapping the models, but, really, I don't get why that would warrant more criticism than stuff that is much, much more noticible during gameplay, photomode and replays.

And that's preference. I'd rather have a smooth 60FPS and V-Sync over weather effects and stuff, as it enables me to enjoy what's in the game more, instead of spoiling the joy I get out of those effects with performance problems.
I think GT5 basically did that everywhere, not just with the graphics. Standard cars, customization, you get the idea.

Yeah, me too. The frame rate drops didn't occur that often, but the tearing happened pretty often, no matter on which track.

I think at the time Turn 10 sacrificed graphics for their physics engine (360 calculations per second), as well as the ability to have 4000 layers for livery. That is 4000 layers on top of what is already there.

 

[zr1chris]

If you looked at what I was quoting, you will know what I mean. Why would you say doing all cockpit views in the next GT will be copying Forza when the previous two GT games released before Forza 3 had all cockpit views. Forza 2 never had cockpit view and I don't see people slating it but people slate GT5 for not having cockpit view for a game totaling over 1000 cars. That is more than the total figure for the whole of the Forza series.

If you want to carry this discussion further, then it might be best to carry it to the dedicated FM Vs GT thread so you can quote me there and I will reply there.

GT5 may have had 1000 cars but if they did interiors for all of them there would still be less different interiors than Forza seeing as how GT5 has a ton of repeated cars with interiors that would be identical.

 

[GumShoe]

^ Not to mention the exteriors were also untouched on a large chunk of them...

I've compiled a quick spreadsheet of all cars in GT5 from the Official GTPlanet car list, but I combined all the duplicate or or close enough to duplicate cars. Guess what, the total came to 564 unique cars (and I was generous in choosing)! Not quite the super awesome 1031. Now you could give or take 50 cars from that because I may have got a few wrong, but still, that's quite a difference.

The Spreadsheet is here

 

[Luminis]

I think at the time Turn 10 sacrificed graphics for their physics engine (360 calculations per second), as well as the ability to have 4000 layers for livery. That is 4000 layers on top of what is already there.

Yeah... One of the few things that are worth sacrificing some graphical fidelity for. But, doing so to shoehorn some other GFX into the game... Dunno, not my cup of tea.

I've compiled a quick spreadsheet of all cars in GT5 from the Official GTPlanet car list, but I combined all the duplicate or or close enough to duplicate cars. Guess what, the total came to 564 unique cars (and I was generous in choosing)! Not quite the super awesome 1031. Now you could give or take 50 cars from that because I may have got a few wrong, but still, that's quite a difference.

Just a rough guess, but seeing as there's a huge amount of Miatas and Skyline... Would it be reasonable to assume that a rough quarter of GT5's car lineup consists of Mazda and Nissan?

 

[GumShoe]

I was actually surprised with how many miatas there are all up, almost more than the skylines!

I'd guess Nissan, Mazda and Honda are around 50% of the cars.

 

[Luminis]

Guess it was to be expected. Goes to show that mere numbers say little for the variety or, rather, the actual content of the car list.

By the way, GumShoe, nice avatar 👍

Forza 2 never had cockpit view and I don't see people slating it but people slate GT5 for not having cockpit view for a game totaling over 1000 cars. That is more than the total figure for the whole of the Forza series. If it was such a basic feature then Forza 2 would have had it.

Why do people slate GT5 for lacking cockpits?
1) GT5: Prologue hat cockpits.
2) GT5 wasn't released in, what, 2007?
3) GT5 does it for some cars and lacks it for the stuff that was copy-pasted from previous games.

That's why.

Regarding the thousand cars bit: Just look at GumShoes posts above. Get rid of all the duplicates, and there isn't that much left in GT5. Plus, Forza still offers more cars that include cockpits.

I remember watching an interview before Forza 3 was released that they were having second thoughts of not including cockpits as it is a huge investment but thought what the heck and did it.

Source?

We all know Turn 10 have a close eye on what all other games are doing and seeing how much they were trash talking PD and GT, near the time of the release of Forza 3, I would say that is due to them including cockpits but they would have kept their mouths shut more if they did not include them as they would look foolish calling GT series stagnant.

Luckily, they did. And they're right in calling it stagnent, in my opinion. Forza has developed fast and is changing at quite a decent pace. The franchise evolving this fast might have its downsides, but I certainly think that the pros outweigh the cons, but that's just my.
Probably one of the things I like best about Forza: Bi-anually releases. While that results in a alack of polish here and there, it brought the series to where it is today. And it's shaping up to look rather good, in my opinion.

I'm sure Kaz will take note this time as Forza 4 looks to be a huge step in the right direction for the series.

I doubt that.

If you want to carry this discussion further, then it might be best to carry it to the dedicated FM Vs GT thread so you can quote me there and I will reply there.

Very well, then.

 

[Da-Bomber]

^ Not to mention the exteriors were also untouched on a large chunk of them...

I've compiled a quick spreadsheet of all cars in GT5 from the Official GTPlanet car list, but I combined all the duplicate or or close enough to duplicate cars. Guess what, the total came to 564 unique cars (and I was generous in choosing)! Not quite the super awesome 1031. Now you could give or take 50 cars from that because I may have got a few wrong, but still, that's quite a difference.

The Spreadsheet is here

Wow that's just awful.

 

[Scaff]

^ Not to mention the exteriors were also untouched on a large chunk of them...

I've compiled a quick spreadsheet of all cars in GT5 from the Official GTPlanet car list, but I combined all the duplicate or or close enough to duplicate cars. Guess what, the total came to 564 unique cars (and I was generous in choosing)! Not quite the super awesome 1031. Now you could give or take 50 cars from that because I may have got a few wrong, but still, that's quite a difference.

The Spreadsheet is here

To be 100% honest you can do a very similar thing with the FM3 car list and end up reducing that by quite a large percentage, it just contains a lot of race spec duplicates rather than road car dupes (911 RSR and GT3 in particular).

I would also question quite a bit of what has been classed as duplication in that GT list, and not in the Japanese side of things. A Focus Rally car and Escort Rally car are not even close to the same, nor are either of the Lancia rally cars close to the road cars.

We you to apply the same criteria you have used to the FM3 list, you would see a good 30% reduction in numbers.

Both car list have a good share of duping, just in different areas, and as such neither should be held up as innocent in that regard.


Scaff

 

[Hotspitta]

I don´t like the graphics and the lighting, the cars look (in race) like cheap plastic Playmobil cars.

I still can´t hear the engine correctly, I mostly miss shifting because I can´t hear it when I got to shift...

I can´t find the braking points...

The cars dont look like Playmobil cars. Just dont paint them bright yellow or green but rather take a dark metallic color.

You cant here the engine correctly? Sounds more like Gt5 too me where i had a hard time hearing the engine. You have too hear when your car is on the top rpm before the redline. Second you can feel(ffb controller) and hear the perfect shift moment ten times better than in GT5, thats just not true.

....He cant find the braking points.... search harder...

 

[GumShoe]

^ Scaff, Yeah I put the list together very quickly and was aware I probably missed a few and mixed a few wrong ones, that's why I said +/- 50. I mainly raised it in GT5's case because it is toted so often as having '1000+' cars as a 'winning' argument, whereas Forza just has 'lots' of cars...

 

[Hotspitta]

KINECT WILL MAKE THEM INTO BELIEVERS...



The detail and lighting is just incredible on the leather and stitching.👍



AUTOVISTA WITH CONTROLLER

 

[Bogie 19th]

To be 100% honest you can do a very similar thing with the FM3 car list and end up reducing that by quite a large percentage, it just contains a lot of race spec duplicates rather than road car dupes (911 RSR and GT3 in particular).

I would also question quite a bit of what has been classed as duplication in that GT list, and not in the Japanese side of things. A Focus Rally car and Escort Rally car are not even close to the same, nor are either of the Lancia rally cars close to the road cars.

We you to apply the same criteria you have used to the FM3 list, you would see a good 30% reduction in numbers.

Both car list have a good share of duping, just in different areas, and as such neither should be held up as innocent in that regard.


Scaff

Which game do you believe has a larger "percentage" of nearly duplicate cars? In my experience, it would seem that GT5 does, by about 20% more than FM3.

 

[Hotspitta]

Which game do you believe has a larger "percentage" of nearly duplicate cars? In my experience, it would seem that GT5 does, by about 20% more than FM3.

I agree with you Bogie, In Forza the duplicates are mostly racecars from differtent teams
and do have very different handling characteristics, Performance class and topspeeds. The only cars we can really call duplicates are a couple off Vauxhalls, Lexus, infinitis and Acura's and those not more than 20 cars combined. Porsche has only 6 duplicate race cars wich includes the 996 and 997 GT3 cupcars from 07 and 08. Ferrari and Holden have a couple but thats not more than 10% of the cars in this game.

 

[Scaff]

Which game do you believe has a larger "percentage" of nearly duplicate cars? In my experience, it would seem that GT5 does, by about 20% more than FM3.

Oh GT has without a doubt (by how much would depend entirely on the very subjective 'what exactly is a dupe), and I certainly didn't want to imply anything different.

The reason for my post, is that while many quite rightly raise this issue about GT, they often forget that for certain cars FM can be just as guilty (just not by the same percentage overall.

One great example from FM is:

2008 Porsche #2 Gruppe Orange Racing 911 GT3 Cup
2005 Porsche #55 Applied Materials 911 GT3 Cup
2005 Porsche #66 AXA Racing 911 GT3 Cup
2006 Porsche #82 Red Bull 911 GT3 Cup
2005 Porsche #31 Peterson-White Lightning 911 GT3-RSR
2008 Porsche #45 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR
2005 Porsche #5 XBOX 360 911 GT3-RSR
2007 Porsche #80 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR

and

2008 Ferrari #71 Tafel Racing F430GT
2008 Ferrari #90 Farnbacher Racing F430GT
2006 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F430GT

and

2009 Ford #5 Ford Performance Racing FG Falcon
2009 Ford #9 Stone Brothers Racing FG Falcon
2009 Ford #25 Britek Motorsport FG Falcon

and

2009 Holden #39 Supercheap Auto Racing Commodore VE
2009 Holden #51 Sprint Gas Racing Commodore VE
2009 Holden #33 Garry Rogers Team Commodore VE
2009 Holden #2 Toll Holden Racing Team Commodore VE



All of which are listed as separate cars on the FM3 car list, but lets be honest quite a bit of either identical duping (in the case of the Holden and Ford) or as near as damn it for the 911's and Ferrari's, is going on.

It could be argued that the above is actually 5 clearly different cars, rather than the 18 listed.

I more than acknowledge that GTs scale is bigger (and more focused to road cars), but occasionally Forza is described as not suffering from the same issue and that's quite clearly not the case.


Scaff

 

[Hotspitta]

Oh GT has without a doubt (by how much would depend entirely on the very subjective 'what exactly is a dupe), and I certainly didn't want to imply anything different.

The reason for my post, is that while many quite rightly raise this issue about GT, they often forget that for certain cars FM can be just as guilty (just not by the same percentage overall.

One great example from FM is:

2008 Porsche #2 Gruppe Orange Racing 911 GT3 Cup
2005 Porsche #55 Applied Materials 911 GT3 Cup
2005 Porsche #66 AXA Racing 911 GT3 Cup
2006 Porsche #82 Red Bull 911 GT3 Cup
2005 Porsche #31 Peterson-White Lightning 911 GT3-RSR
2008 Porsche #45 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR
2005 Porsche #5 XBOX 360 911 GT3-RSR
2007 Porsche #80 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR

and

2008 Ferrari #71 Tafel Racing F430GT
2008 Ferrari #90 Farnbacher Racing F430GT
2006 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F430GT

and

2009 Ford #5 Ford Performance Racing FG Falcon
2009 Ford #9 Stone Brothers Racing FG Falcon
2009 Ford #25 Britek Motorsport FG Falcon

and

2009 Holden #39 Supercheap Auto Racing Commodore VE
2009 Holden #51 Sprint Gas Racing Commodore VE
2009 Holden #33 Garry Rogers Team Commodore VE
2009 Holden #2 Toll Holden Racing Team Commodore VE



All of which are listed as separate cars on the FM3 car list, but lets be honest quite a bit of either identical duping (in the case of the Holden and Ford) or as near as damn it for the 911's and Ferrari's, is going on.

It could be argued that the above is actually 5 clearly different cars, rather than the 18 listed.

I more than acknowledge that GTs scale is bigger (and more focused to road cars), but occasionally Forza is described as not suffering from the same issue and that's quite clearly not the case.


Scaff

Scaff you are forgetting that Gt only has 200 premiums and even in the premiums have duplicates. Ok they are Nascars and such but its the same story with Forza. Their are more teams that us the same car but they all have different setups. On the other hand Gt has so much weird Roadcar duplicates it sometimes baffles me.

# S Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TWIN SPARK ‘02
# S Alfa Romeo 147 GTA ‘02
# P Alfa Romeo 147 TI 2.0 TWIN SPARK ‘06

# S Honda S500 ‘63
# S Honda S600 ‘64
# S Honda S800 ‘66
# S Honda S800 RSC Race Car ‘68
# S Honda S2000 ‘99
# S Honda S2000 ‘01
# S Honda S2000 ‘03
# P Honda S2000 ‘06
# S Honda S2000 (EU) ‘99
# S Honda S2000 (EU) ‘01
# S Honda S2000 (EU) ‘03
# S Honda S2000 (US) ‘99
# S Honda S2000 (US) ‘01
# S Honda S2000 (US) ‘04
# S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
# S Honda S2000 Type V ‘00
# S Honda S2000 Type V ‘01
# S Honda S2000 Type V ‘03
# S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) ‘00
# S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) ‘01
# S Honda S2000 Type V (US) ‘00
# S Honda S2000 Type V (US) ‘01

# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) ‘93
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RS (FD) ‘96
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R-S (FD) ‘95
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘92
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘93
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘95
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘96

# S Mazda MX-5 (NA) ‘89
# S Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) ‘98
# S Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘00
# S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) ‘91
# S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) ‘93
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) ‘89
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) ‘98
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘00
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) ‘91
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) ‘93
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) ‘97
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) ‘93
# S Mazda MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) ‘97
# S Mazda MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 VR-Limited (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) ‘93

# S Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ‘96
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ‘96
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ‘96
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ‘98

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-official-car-list/

 

[Bogie 19th]

Oh GT has without a doubt (by how much would depend entirely on the very subjective 'what exactly is a dupe), and I certainly didn't want to imply anything different.

The reason for my post, is that while many quite rightly raise this issue about GT, they often forget that for certain cars FM can be just as guilty (just not by the same percentage overall.

I was by no means questioning your post. It was just a legit question, that I don't even know the answer to (I have not gone and counted and compared). I just wanted to know if you thought the percentile was larger in GT in your experience.

Be it FM or GT, I have NEVER raced every single car.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff you are forgetting that Gt only has 200 premiums and even in the premiums have duplicates. Ok they are Nascars and such but its the same story with Forza.

I'm not forgetting it at all, I simply am not getting involved in a numbers contest between the two.

I'm not claiming Forza is 'worse' that GT in this regard, simply that both do the same to a degree.

I'm also not making a distinction between premium or standard and to be honest don't see what difference it would make, I quite happily agree that GT does this to a greater extent than Forza does.

Their are more teams that us the same car but they all have different setups.

To try and use that argument would automatically validate a lot of the duplicates in the GT lists as separate cars, as while they may be road cars, they would have different set-ups. As an example a Euro spec MX-5 has a totally difference suspension set-up to a JP spec Eunos, even if they are the exact same model, year and variant.

Which leads me back to my point that defining what makes a dupe is problematic in itself, and applying differing standards to the two titles doesn't help in that regard.

You can not say that four Holden's are different cars because they are run by different teams, with different set-ups; and then say that the following are duplicates:

# S Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TWIN SPARK ‘02
# S Alfa Romeo 147 GTA ‘02
# P Alfa Romeo 147 TI 2.0 TWIN SPARK ‘06

Given that (unlike the Holden's) they are different model years (with I can assure you from personal experience different suspension set-ups) and in the case of the GTA a totally different engine.


The same standards have to be applied to both, and applied equally, to be able to discuss this at all.

On the other hand Gt has so much weird Roadcar duplicates it sometimes baffles me.

# S Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TWIN SPARK ‘02
# S Alfa Romeo 147 GTA ‘02
# P Alfa Romeo 147 TI 2.0 TWIN SPARK ‘06

# S Honda S500 ‘63
# S Honda S600 ‘64
# S Honda S800 ‘66
# S Honda S800 RSC Race Car ‘68
# S Honda S2000 ‘99
# S Honda S2000 ‘01
# S Honda S2000 ‘03
# P Honda S2000 ‘06
# S Honda S2000 (EU) ‘99
# S Honda S2000 (EU) ‘01
# S Honda S2000 (EU) ‘03
# S Honda S2000 (US) ‘99
# S Honda S2000 (US) ‘01
# S Honda S2000 (US) ‘04
# S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
# S Honda S2000 Type V ‘00
# S Honda S2000 Type V ‘01
# S Honda S2000 Type V ‘03
# S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) ‘00
# S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) ‘01
# S Honda S2000 Type V (US) ‘00
# S Honda S2000 Type V (US) ‘01

# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) ‘93
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RS (FD) ‘96
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R-S (FD) ‘95
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘92
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘93
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘95
# S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ‘96

# S Mazda MX-5 (NA) ‘89
# S Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) ‘98
# S Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘00
# S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) ‘91
# S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) ‘93
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) ‘89
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) ‘98
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘00
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) ‘04
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) ‘91
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) ‘93
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) ‘97
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) ‘93
# S Mazda MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) ‘97
# S Mazda MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 VR-Limited (NA, J) ‘95
# S Mazda MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) ‘93

# S Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ‘96
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ‘96
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (J) ‘98
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ‘95
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ‘96
# S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ‘98

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-official-car-list/

Which I have not once disagreed with, however you once again have to apply the same standards equally. As arguing that the Holdens differ as they are run by different teams and have different set-ups, would open the gates for a lot of the above to be classed as different, given that many have different weights, drivetrains, suspension set-ups, etc.


The real problem would be agreeing what defines a dupe, personally I find it easier to simply acknowledged that both titles do it to a degree and for the same reason (to boast car count).

I was by no means questioning your post. It was just a legit question, that I don't even know the answer to (I have not gone and counted and compared). I just wanted to know if you thought the percentile was larger in GT in your experience.

Be it FM or GT, I have NEVER raced every single car.

👍

Never done anything more than a rough count on both, but GT certainly has more (by the standards I would use to class a dupe), personally its never been a major issue for me in any title, as the more the better for me.



Scaff

 

[dylansan]

^ Not to mention the exteriors were also untouched on a large chunk of them...

I've compiled a quick spreadsheet of all cars in GT5 from the Official GTPlanet car list, but I combined all the duplicate or or close enough to duplicate cars. Guess what, the total came to 564 unique cars (and I was generous in choosing)! Not quite the super awesome 1031. Now you could give or take 50 cars from that because I may have got a few wrong, but still, that's quite a difference.

The Spreadsheet is here

You combined all the racecars with their stock counterparts? How on earth is the Nissan Calsonic Skyline GT-R Race Car '93 "close enough" to be a duplicate of the stock 1989 R32 GT-R? How is the Lancia Stratos Rally Car a duplicate of the stock Stratos?

"generous in choosing", my butt! Even with the biased elimination of all those cars from the list, there's still more unique cars in GT5 than in Forza 3. I'm not trying to say that GT5 is a better game, but to post this list as a reason GT5 is worse than Forza is incredibly lame. I'm not sure how you combined the list, if it was some automated process or you just weren't paying attention, but unless you actually drive all the cars in the game, you can never know which ones are "the same" as others.

EDIT: @Hotspitta: Please post a picture of a Honda S500 and a Honda S2000 and tell me they are duplicates. Seriously.