FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[CAMAROBOY69]

Do you think Forza is kind of going the way of Call of Duty? Just dropping one every year or 2?

Not at all. COD actually releases a COD EVERY year. Forza is at least every 2 years and usually with major updates and improvements with each game.

 

[shintastic48]

Do you think Forza is kind of going the way of Call of Duty? Just dropping one every year or 2?

Yes and No. In the fact that they are dropping titles often. Yes. In the fact that the quality of the Forza titles in comparison to the CoD titles. Forza is actually upgrading stuff. CoD is turning into Madden to me. Luckily I've been a hardcore Battlefield player since the original Bad Company (Not that that's early but it's earlier than a lot of people).

I remember there's a new madcatz wheel coming up, however just a bipedal 400 270 degree wheel which is rather overpriced.

If there's one thing i've learned from buying gaming hardware from past experience and review. NEVER buy MadKatz products. Tritons are the only somewhat quality product they make and they have there problems occasionally.

 

[GTOne2Three]

Does Forza have dynamic weather change, and time change?

Also, the first trailer showed what looked like rally. Did that ever make it in?

 

[HBK]

Not sure where this fitted at first, but thought here is a good place..

We all know the Nordschliefe is 'not entirely accurate' (Being as polite as I can) in FM

But with various discussions over width have ensued, I spotted a comparison photo posted on other forums, that has the same car on the same piece of track in both games, so did a quick mask/copy/paste and looked at how they differ (just in width at this one point..)..

I've overlaid the track extent lines, and although not totally scientific, it's approximate enough..

I'd say GT5 seems to accomodate 3.9-4.0 Car widths

And FM4, definitely 4.5


At this one place, it's clear FM4 is somewhere between 10-15% wider.. not ideal, but certainly not the 2x that is being touted..

Of course, I am assuming that GT5 is the 'reference' to real life, I've not got any photo's I can compare with the same car etc to ensure FOV can be easily removed from the equation..

Points of assumption
- It is the approximate same location for each, I believe the FM4 one (taking FOV into account) is slightly further back from the corner, I am assuming the track width doesn't change massively between these two points...

Great post 👍

I'd say that demonstrates pretty much my feelings about Forza's Nurburgring : It's a bit wider in FM3 than in GT5. Whether or not this is more or less accurate is hard to demonstrate though.

But what I can say with confidence is that the Nurburgring is far from being as "narrow" as some believe it to be :

 

[Daverytimes]

I have to imagine the typical person would respond to stuff like basic replay controls or ability to save tunes as "things that should have been there when the game came out," and I struggle to think of a reason that they wouldn't be right.

The hypocrisy in these thread is amazing, so you (Along with some others in this thread) are now dictating what should have been their upon release. Let me play the same card you guys were with me, "If you don't work for PD how do you know what should and shouldn't have been there upon release?".

 

[barryl85]

The hypocrisy in these thread is amazing, so you (Along with some others in this thread) are now dictating what should have been their upon release. Let me play the same card you guys were with me, "If you don't work for PD how do you know what should and shouldn't have been there upon release?".

We are not saying should from PD's development point of view - We are saying that content should have been there from a users perspective, considering almost all other games in the same genre offer these oprions as standard (no pun intended on the standard cars).

How can you argue against this point of view considering PD has clearly realised this stuff should have been there too hence the spec 2.0 update, talk about blatantly obvious.



Edit: Further to my point, if this game is 'Kaz's Vision' and he is adding this content now - clearly if you asked him would you have liked this stuff in the game on day one - what do you think his answer would be???............


......yeah we all already know what he would say.

 

[Spagetti69]

Do you think Forza is kind of going the way of Call of Duty? Just dropping one every year or 2?

Hope so.

 

[Astro-Racer]

Oooo link please? Looking forward to the reviews!!!

Loads released today.

 

[Zer0]

There are many professional race drivers on iRacing that aren't payed and aren't even used in PR for iRacing that say good things about iRacing. I've raced with Simon Pagenaud and Will Power for a few days about a year ago and they both love the sim. They have never been used in any write ups or sales for the sim (As far as i'm concerned). They just know that it's the closest thing you can get that doesn't cost you a fortune. And i'm talking about simulators that Formula 1 teams design.

edit: There are some situations where drivers aren't payed to say that.

Yep I don't mean all the driver opinions are payed, just the ones used as part of the promotion of the game and more about the Shift quote than iRacing. Also you will find more sincere opinions in an independant not biased source than on a payed one. Even if all both are real pilots with the same experience.

You know even real drifters were used to talk about the realism of Kaido Battle games.

So why was there new physics between Prologue and GT5 then? This RL racer said they were good? He's got RL racing experience, how could he be wrong?

Even iRacing is a work in progress project regarding physics. There is not a sim perfect in that regards and there is still a big gap until they become perfectly real. Anyway there are games closer than others.

 

[erahk64]

Forza still fails to have that. I'm not sure how many Forza players will purchase the Fanatec set for Forza worth $460 dollars.

It's $280 for Fanatec GT2/CSR wheel and Fanatec standard pedals.

 

[shintastic48]

It's $280 for Fanatec GT2/CSR wheel and Fanatec standard pedals.

It's 100 dollars for the dfgt. $280 is really high for entry level arcade players. I don't think you got what I meant.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I'm not spinning anything.

But you are. But time to move on.

Loading times? FM4 demo loading times is way longer! It takes so long just to restart a race, I have never been bothered about the loading times. Im so Happy today spec 2.0 is looking very promising and the DLC track and race car and gear pack sounds very interesting! 2.0 comes out next week also 👍

FM4 loading times are long than what? They are substantially shorter than GT5 and FM3 times. Or are you talking about Shift 2 or maybe RacePro?

Oh hey look. GT is getting rewind and fast forward in replay mode. Isn't that swell.

I can take a picture with my avatar? Good grief they know exactly what I am thinking!

You mean I don't have to do a race for 24 hours straight now? Whaaaaaaat?

And I get a new NASCAR with 11 different liveries passed off as 11 new cars? AHHHH MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE!

All on October 11th? Fail.

Well, it is free

somewhat off-topic but at least it's not as bad as a fail as Apple Keynote.

Too soon.

3 hours not to mention the install.

Any word on how many GB spec2 will be?

Not even sure I have enough room for the Spec 2.0 download. Damn PS3 patches and mandatory installs filled my 40gb HDD in a matter of months.

That isn't really the interiors we are getting, is it?

Do name a game that gets sound right then? Because Forza certainly doesn't have that either.

FM sounds right, RacePro 09 sounds right.

Played FM4 demo for a long time, I really can't believe some of you guys had me pumped up for the new physics. I know FM series is a good game everybody loves painting, trading, customizing, but what about the driving? As soon as my bro seen me playing he said why does it look so Arcade and I agree.

Well, everyone has their own opinion, and even if you are in the minority, it still counts. But for most, it's far from looking arcade. Other than RacePro 09, probably the most realistic sim/arcade game on console.

Then some of you deny the assist like its not there come one guys Its there!

Confirmed TWICE by Turn 10 that there is not steering assist when you deactivate it.

If you can't feel it helping you then I don't know what to say. All I want is a real driving experience. Dan listen to your Sim fan's I don't care about the arcade FM fans which I have seen many people claim on here FM being arcade/sim please get rid of this driving assist why have a simulation mode T10. This is why I love GT because in the end the driving is top notch. 👍

Well, the driving and Physics in FM4 are better than GT5, so you will probably enjoy FM4 even more.

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

It's not disc limitations, it's hardware limitations. The 360 doesn't have enough juice compared to the PC.

Stop trying bro, I'm flooring the 458 out of turns it has tons of grip in stock form. If your happy with the physics good for you I don't.

Then you haven't played FM4 demo....or your controller is broke, lol. What is your gamertag?

I guess he simply want realistic as advertised.

Who is to say he didn't get realistic?

Depends on the car/tyre/road/situation... Just as it does in the game.

Exactly, which is why his comment was wrong.

That is awesome! I love how I got hate mail from members for asking Thomas about it in the Sim Hardware forum. "What does this have to do with Fanatec? I am a bonehead...." lol.

I am glad we whined and complained to both Thomas and Dan. Well done gentlemen.

Buttsneeze was probably the most vocal on the subject. Dan even blocked him on Facebook lol.

I probably would have blocked him too . But at least they confirmed twice that the steering assist removal is indeed there. Sounds like they have another bug to work on for a select number of people though.

Good to hear I'm not a raging GT fanboy anymore... Sadly that it took word from another company for Dan to finally listen.

Yup, and hopefully the others listen when he said the assist is removed when you are in sim mode.

Do you think Forza is kind of going the way of Call of Duty? Just dropping one every year or 2?

Nope.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

That isn't really the interiors we are getting, is it?

Looks like that is the bumper cam view with just a very basic interior added to it. If thats the case THAT would be funny. But hey, I will gladly take that over nothing at all, which is currently what we have for the 800 standards. Its at least a step in the right direction. Something is better than nothing. Plus dont forget that the 800 standards are imported directly from the PSP which had basic interiors. So I am guessing KY "turned on" the interiors from the PSP for the standards.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Looks like that is the bumper cam view with just a very basic interior added to it. If thats the case THAT would be funny. But hey, I will gladly take that over nothing at all, which is currently what we have for the 800 standards. Its at least a step in the right direction. Something is better than nothing. Plus dont forget that the 800 standards are imported directly from the PSP which had basic interiors. So I am guessing the "turned" on the interiors from the PSP for the standards.

While I agree with you that something is better than nothing, that is just beyond sad. Oh well, I will of course be using that view in the standards then because I hate driving in anything but cockpit.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

While I agree with you that something is better than nothing, that is just beyond sad. Oh well, I will of course be using that view in the standards then because I hate driving in anything but cockpit.

Yup I agree but at least now GT5 will be playable again. And I agree, I dont like driving in anything other than the interior cockpit view, especially in a simulation racing game. If its a sim racer, it needs a cockpit view....period.

 

[TT3AZ]

Yup I agree but at least now GT5 will be playable again. And I agree, I dont like driving in anything other than the interior cockpit view, especially in a simulation racing game. If its a sim racer, it needs a cockpit view....period.

...and if its a sim race, you should be able to change tire width and wheels...just saying, both forza and gt is a lazy atempt to "simulation", i would say its a mix between arcade and simulation game.

 

[Luminis]

just saying, both forza and gt is a lazy atempt to "simulation", i would say its a mix between arcade and simulation game.

Which, I guess, most people will agree with. Or they should, at least. Neither game is a full-blown sim. And I guess it depends on what you expect from a simulator whether you consider one of the two to be more of a simulator than the other.

To some, the better driving feel in GT might offset everything. To others, being able to set tyre pressure and width could be more important than that...

I, for one, know what I'm looking for - not only in a simulator, but, more importantly, in a game. And I know whoch one satisfies my needs better

 

[Bogie 19th]

GT and Forza are trying to satisfy a much larger crowd than the crowd you would find playing rFactor or any SIMBIN game on PC.

Both Forza and GT have a long way to before they become "sims". At this time, they are simcades, and more than likely, that will never change.

If simulation is THAT important to you, you would be better off avoiding GT and Forza and building up the PC rig.

 

[HBK]

I, for one, know what I'm looking for - not only in a simulator, but, more importantly, in a game. And I know whoch one satisfies my needs better

And so do I 👍

Looking forward to Spec2 though. I don't think it will fix most of the problems hampering my enjoyment with the game. But hey, I may be pleasantly surprised after all

 

[infamousDee]

Looks like that is the bumper cam view with just a very basic interior added to it. If thats the case THAT would be funny. But hey, I will gladly take that over nothing at all, which is currently what we have for the 800 standards. Its at least a step in the right direction. Something is better than nothing. Plus dont forget that the 800 standards are imported directly from the PSP which had basic interiors. So I am guessing KY "turned on" the interiors from the PSP for the standards.

From where I'm standing, this changes nothing at all. The problem was the lack of modelled interiors, not the lack of a camera view which means nothing to genuine sim-racers using a wheel.

 

[ItsHim]

From where I'm standing, this changes nothing at all. The problem was the lack of modelled interiors, not the lack of a camera view which means nothing to genuine sim-racers using a wheel.

I'm not quite certain if you're being sarcastic here. Surely the most important things to a 'serious' video gamer pretending being a race driver are FFB besides physics.

I do like the interior view but am happy to settle for the black cardboard type in road cars and the rather good-ish looking ones on racing cars and open wheelers.

Besides the granny driving position FM4 does have very nice interiors by now. Seems they finally arrived in the current gen world

 

[Luminis]

I'm not quite certain if you're being sarcastic here. Surely the most important things to a 'serious' video gamer pretending being a race driver are FFB besides physics.

Which is precisely why you'll find them on PC sims, for the overwhelmingly most part.

What you're finding on consoles aren't the real hardcore simulation folks, wouldn't make sense for them to be here. Which is why I sometimes get a, you know, 'wannabe-elitist' feel from people who are claiming that physics are the only thing that matters, even for a console game. They wouldn't be in these parts of the forum if it was true.

Despite that, you'll find some people who are pretty hardcore about competing with others, though. Nothhing speaking against that.

 

[BryCivicSi]

I'd say GT5 seems to accomodate 3.9-4.0 Car widths

And FM4, definitely 4.5


At this one place, it's clear FM4 is somewhere between 10-15% wider.. not ideal, but certainly not the 2x that is being touted..

Of course, I am assuming that GT5 is the 'reference' to real life, I've not got any photo's I can compare with the same car etc to ensure FOV can be easily removed from the equation..

Points of assumption
- It is the approximate same location for each, I believe the FM4 one (taking FOV into account) is slightly further back from the corner, I am assuming the track width doesn't change massively between these two points...

The track width looks quite similar but the car in forza is so much smaller for comparison. You are at different viewing differences. Get photos where the car is the exact same size then do your measurements.

 

[phil-t]

The track width looks quite similar but the car in forza is so much smaller for comparison. You are at different viewing differences. Get photos where the car is the exact same size then do your measurements.

It's good enough, it doesn't matter what size the car is, all you need is a good enough 'width' of one indentical car, set a horizontal reference line, cut and paste either side of the real car.. it's all relative.. You can't get the same size car as the chase cams are different distances with different FOV's..

I'm sure it's a valid way to referentially measure, and it doesn't need to be accurate to the nearest '%', just to show FM is about 15% wider, which helps when discussing the Nordschliefe accuracy, some believe it's perfect, some believe it's up to twice as wide, it's clearly just a little bit wider.. slightly unrealistic, but not horrific..

Here's the FM3 onboard vs reality..


Passable..

 

[PzR Slim]

The track width looks quite similar but the car in forza is so much smaller for comparison. You are at different viewing differences. Get photos where the car is the exact same size then do your measurements.

Just think about what Phil actually did and you will realise what you have said makes absolutely no difference to the result which is correct.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

From where I'm standing, this changes nothing at all. The problem was the lack of modelled interiors, not the lack of a camera view which means nothing to genuine sim-racers using a wheel.

Did you play GT5 at all? 800 of the cars had NO interior view aka cockpit view. You could not even pick interior view as an option. Now we have an interior view to pick from in all 1,000 cars in GT5. That is a MASSIVE improvement if you are a person that drives with the inside view. Thats what killed the GT5 standard cars the most. So this is great news.

You cant simulate racing if you are sitting on the hood. Despite what you might think, hood view or bumper cam view does not simulate real life racing.
hood view

bumper view

 

[infamousDee]

Did you play GT5 at all? 800 of the cars had NO interior view aka cockpit view. You could not even pick interior view as an option. Now we have an interior view to pick from in all 1000 cars in GT5. That is a MASSIVE improvement if you are a person that drives with the inside view.

You cant simulate racing if you are sitting on the hood. Despite what you might think, hood view or bumper cam view does not simulate real life racing.
hood view

Since when was having another wheel and pair of hands displayed on your screen more realistic than 'bumper' view (which, in truth, is actually cockpit view minus the cockpit)?

I'm not quite certain if you're being sarcastic here. Surely the most important things to a 'serious' video gamer pretending being a race driver are FFB besides physics.

I'm not sure if you're talking to me here. My post mentioned nothing about FFB.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Since when was having another wheel and pair of hands displayed on your screen more realistic than 'bumper' view (which, in truth, is actually cockpit view minus the cockpit)?

Wow you seriously just dont get it. Look above at the pics I posted.

So when you drive you are telling me you dont see any of your car at all? You dont see the gauges,the windshield, your hands, the dash, the hood or anything else. You magically only see the everything in front of your vehicle?? If you answered yes to any of this then you have clearly never driven in your life, or even rode as a passenger in a car. Or maybe you are blind. Because everyone else in the world sees the interior of their car while driving. Period. If you argue with this you are extremly ignorant to say the least.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Not sure he wants to follow you Camaro. There is a huge simulation improvement when you are confined to WINDOWS on the left and right, and a WINDSHIELD in front. There is also this thing called a side mirror (horror), that is more simulation than NOT having a side mirror.

 

[GT6mebe]

It's good enough, it doesn't matter what size the car is, all you need is a good enough 'width' of one indentical car, set a horizontal reference line, cut and paste either side of the real car.. it's all relative.. You can't get the same size car as the chase cams are different distances with different FOV's..

I'm sure it's a valid way to referentially measure, and it doesn't need to be accurate to the nearest '%', just to show FM is about 15% wider, which helps when discussing the Nordschliefe accuracy, some believe it's perfect, some believe it's up to twice as wide, it's clearly just a little bit wider.. slightly unrealistic, but not horrific..

Here's the FM3 onboard vs reality..


Passable..

Come on guys you cannot be serious....

You can fit two cars on the brown bit alone whereas in real life...