FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)
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No, he is talking about the car model LOD, forza uses about 4 different ones.There is a site which i'm not going to put here where the guys extract the different LOD car models from the Forza games to use in another games, that's why some guys know for sure that the new F4 models have more polygons to the same LOD.
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- hackdog
Gee so much butthurt going on in this thread.
chromatic9
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- chromatic9
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Yes, it replaces different lod car models, it doesn't exchange geometry to textures like he implied.That's not a texture.That headlight is modelled.Yes i can see the polygons on the "circle" if i look close enough, but then again i can see them in photomode in GT5 and in F4 photomode.It just something i notice.Does it make a difference? no, it doesn't. I actually think is smart developing to change the lod of the cars to improve performance.
chromatic9
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Ah ok.I thought i was only referring to changing geometry for texture.Aren't those from F3 though?
chromatic9
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MagpieRacer
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You.
Why, there are different LOD models, they didn't acknowledged that, instead they post photomode LOD models and claim that the photomode LOD was present at all times(which has just has been proven wrong).
I repeat this fact several times, and instead of acknowledging such fact they decided to cover it up with higher LOD and standards pictures.
People expect to have a fair comparison, they post standard cars as examples of these models in their poorest conditions, yet the same is done for FM models and is still wrong because "yes".
Such comparisons cant be done without taking the different LODs in consideration, I clearly state the different existed LODs, they called BS, then prof of it is shown and I'm the one who is wrong?
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I've noticed this with the AI in FM4, if you have the overlap and are heading to teh Apex, they do give you room, sometimes not so much, sometimes plenty..
The main time they ram you is when you don't have enough overlap (e.g. <50%) and they will drive you off the road or hit you.. I've gone and driven around Tsukuba to see if the video is really staged, and it's pretty accurate, I've just done a few laps in each game.
And just noticed, the collision in FM4 at the end, that's an interesting difference between the two games, the car pivots up fairly realistically..
One thing T10 need to fix is the racing lines, if you switch that on, you can see the AI brake wherever teh line is saying you should, but it's so conservative, I go flatout through a lot of places where it's saying you should brake, and keep getting caught out by the AI suddenly throwing an anchor out behind them!
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I don't see how.
The problem with comparing both games with an static car is that FM uses player's data, while GT5's follows a scripted racelines(if an object is in the way, an alternative raceline is used by the GT5's AI). To make a fair comparison a competitive race against the AI is required(however I'm pretty sure that FM's AI is better in that sort of comparison, for reasons I explained in this post).
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Nah it doesn't seem scripted man.They go over the grass etc. to avoid the car.There must be some sort of programming the AI in both games, where they have some sort of different behaviour coming out of the corner and follow the race line up until that point.What i find weird is that some cars avoid it and others don't.But like i said before, it's possible to exploit the game AI and make a particular one look bad.
MagpieRacer
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- jdmking13
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Great post man. 👍Parameters for entrance speeds for each corner of each track are done, AI don't know when to brake, the track scripter(or whoever writes the racelines) determine the braking points and raceline(the optimal one is displayed for the player). Take notice that AI is not autonomic in this situation as they only know alternative racelines or paths when a collision situation is possible, in this area is where is scripted, but the AI doesn't know which line to take because it doesn't know what to do.
For collisions avoidance the AI uses an algorithm that "sees" or calculates the distance of the object ahead, its speed and trajectory, and then it determinates if a collision is possible.(in this area is were the AI is written, so here is where the true AI programming is present).
Glitches, memory limitations(the memory runs out and some missing data makes the car useless) and memory assignation for data storage(when a sector of memory is rewritten, data that was there is replaced).
PD could have done this a hell of a lot better since they could create more complicated AI by using one of the SPE cores(maybe they do this, IDK), maybe their department on this area isn't as strong.
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Ah, ok.Well that makes sense now.👍
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Akirra claimed the Headlight in the Forza 4 Mustang shot was just a texture, not a 3d model. He has been proven wrong multiple times that Forza doesn't use Textued headlights no matter the LoD used. Photo mode, single car on the track or multiple cars on track. It's always a 3d model hence, he is wrong.
Does that headlight look volumetric?
That seems to be the lowest LOD setting, however I don't consider the people who says that there is only one perfect LOD setting for all modes being right actually.
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Yes, they do but so do these
Actually they look even flatter and more texture like in real life... Even the ones in the background look like textures.
Those types of headlights look like that from a distance.
Simple fact is they are proper 3D models. It doesn't matter what you say, it's simply what they are.
The last comparison is the only one I really care about. (accident avoidance means nothing to me). and it shows that Forzas A.I actually know how to give racing room. The A.I in GT just turns strait into the players car and that echoes the experience I've had with the game.
Actually they look even flatter and more texture like in real life... Even the ones in the background look like textures.
Those types of headlights look like that from a distance.
Simple fact is they are proper 3D models. It doesn't matter what you say, it's simply what they are.
The last comparison is the only one I really care about. (accident avoidance means nothing to me). and it shows that Forzas A.I actually know how to give racing room. The A.I in GT just turns strait into the players car and that echoes the experience I've had with the game.
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Yes, they do but so do these
Actually they look even flatter and more texture like in real life... Even the ones in the background look like textures.
Those types of headlights look like that from a distance.
Simple fact is they are proper 3D models. It doesn't matter what you say, it's simply what they are.
Fair enough, but I personally will still consider them as flat because:
Edit: (better comparison angle )
Deepness can be noticed from these headlamps, however such deepness cannot be noticed in FM's model, a side screenshoot form that LOD model showing an optimal angle could clear this up, but without using photomode is a complicated task.
And again, what people should notice is that lower poly models(compared to the photomode ones) do exist, as other people tented to claim as false(for the record more that 1 person stated this until the other LODs were shown).
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Fair enough, but I personally will still consider them as flat because:
Deepness can be noticed from these headlamps, however such deepness cannot be noticed in FM's model, a side screenshoot form that LOD model showing an optimal angle could clear this up, but without using photomode is a complicated task.
And again, what people should notice is that lower poly models(compared to the photomode ones) do exist, as other people tented to claim as false.
You can't compare with angles as different as that.
And I think the only one to claim that they don't swap models for photo mode etc was bogie and we all know to ignore such posts from him.
The LoD does get lower but at no point do the headlights become textures.
Fair enough, but I personally will still consider them as flat because:
Edit: (better comparison angle )
Deepness can be noticed from these headlamps, however such deepness cannot be noticed in FM's model, a side screenshoot form that LOD model showing an optimal angle could clear this up, but without using photomode is a complicated task.
And again, what people should notice is that lower poly models(compared to the photomode ones) do exist, as other people tented to claim as false(for the record more that 1 person stated this until the other LODs were shown).
The only thing you have show is a FM3 proof. I haven't seen it in FM4.
Regardless if its true or not, I don't see this as a con but a pro for Forza. Good for them if they can keep the frame at 60fps and we can take photos/video of the replay at any time we feel like it. The points remains the same, I still think the Forza Motorsport series has rise to the occasion when it needed where GT5 fails.
Don't get me wrong, I own GT5 but I haven't felt the need to go back since I got Forza. This might change down the road but right now, I don't think I will.
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