FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[cuco33]

I wonder how can you get that angle on replay, I also wonder why the number of vectors that composes the circle around the headlamp magically increased(compared to the first screenshoot taken by Symtex).

I wonder why you can't just admit that you're wrong. Plain and simple.

I'm referring to the line blockiness, which has be know as a glitch, which is not the same as claiming "The standards awful look, is a graphical glitch", standards do look worst than most of the FM models, and in their own right they also look worst than most of the stuff from this generation.

Showing evidence of the low LOD used in Forza to save memory however is something that should be acknowledged.

It's not really a glitch. This is in game modeling. It's PD's fault for releasing a game with edges like that. It's also PD's fault for releasing a game with Lupo specific races in A/Bspec career races that show this exact jaggedness during racing, during race replays and during photos from these replays.

 

[prymet1me]

Reply to akiraacecombat's post.

In my opinion your argument is not that solid, games using LOD to manage user experience is nothing new. It seems you are trying to stand on a compressed picture saying the headlamp on the mustang was an incorrect texture when in the game that just is not true. Fine FM has tweaked models from the previous game....while that is true its not a big deal because the in game models across all the cars is consistent.

Look I understand you prefer GT5 but trying to defend the ported cars from a LAST gen game is not working out. As far as using tricks to save memory I would hope developers on BOTH consoles would be doing so because lets face it, both systems are ancient.

 

[PzR Slim]

I wonder how can you get that angle on replay, I also wonder why the number of vectors that composes the circle around the headlamp magically increased(compared to the first screenshoot taken by Symtex).

Do you really want me to take a vid of me getting that angle from a replay? I'm waiting for you tube to process a vid of the bulb moving behind the light cover to prove that the lights are volumetric.

 

[E28]

Standard(also notice that in FM4 there shouldn't been any standard cars, and the roundness of the headlamp is actually a bit more complex than the Mustang one)

I agree. The roundness is more complex. Mainly because it is essentially a picture, stuck onto a primitive looking box. That is totally flat...

I'm referring to the line blockiness, which has been know as a glitch, which is not the same as claiming "The standards awful look, is a graphical glitch", standards do look worst than most of the FM models, and in their own right they also look worst than most of the stuff from this generation.

That's not a glitch. That's just 🤬 texturing.

 

[Symtex]

It's not complicated. I have both games at home.I can tell you that Forza looks incredible while GT looks like GT. It hasn't really change. the poly count has gone up over the years but its still look like GT.

 

[PzR Slim]

Ok so while I'm waiting for the vid to process here is a pic to show the level of detail present. Check out the screw heads And the reflections 👍

 

[Akira AC]

I wonder why you can't just admit that you're wrong. Plain and simple.

Because I'm not, if something can be seen at naked eye is pretty evident, further explanation isn't necessary as people can see the differences between the models(arguing about it and then try to cover such evidence with other content illustrates the logic of fanboysm).

Further replies(apart from Imari's) do not give valid points and argumentation as where the game doesn't uses different LODs and lower poly LOD compared to photomodels, dismissing such fact from FM4 is actually critical for graphical comparisons in this area.

Again, I have no preferences in GT5 either, but FM4 graphical output isn't as spectacular as people claim, those images are testimonial of lower LODs used by FM games during gameplay.

 

[PzR Slim]

Because I'm not, if something can be seen at naked eye is pretty evident, further explanation isn't necessary as people can see the differences between the models(arguing about it and then try to cover such evidence with other content illustrates the logic of fanboysm).

Further replies(apart from Imari's) do not give valid points and argumentation as where the game doesn't uses different LODs and lower poly LOD compared to photomodels, dismissing such fact from FM4 is actually critical for graphical comparisons in this area.

Again, I have no preferences in GT5 either, but FM4 graphical output isn't as spectacular as people claim, those images are testimonial of lower LODs used by FM games during gameplay.

Akira the shots symtex and I took where in exactly the same mode.

 

[PzR Slim]

Ooh, found another screw head. Quick comp, who ever can guess where on the Mustang this screw is gets a pat on the back and a jolly good show!

 

[SparksBCN]

Ok so while I'm waiting for the vid to process here is a pic to show the level of detail present. Check out the screw heads And the reflections 👍

That's the photomode model. Doesn't matter if you access to it from gameplay or a replay, in photomode the game changes the model from the player car to a high detailed one, the same that is used on the menus and in time trial.

Look at the AI cars in photomode, those are the ingame LOD.

 

[cuco33]

Because I'm not, if something can be seen at naked eye is pretty evident, further explanation isn't necessary as people can see the differences between the models(arguing about it and then try to cover such evidence with other content illustrates the logic of fanboysm).

Further replies(apart from Imari's) do not give valid points and argumentation as where the game doesn't uses different LODs and lower poly LOD compared to photomodels, dismissing such fact from FM4 is actually critical for graphical comparisons in this area.

Again, I have no preferences in GT5 either, but FM4 graphical output isn't as spectacular as people claim, those images are testimonial of lower LODs used by FM games during gameplay.

Take the mk1 VW GTI to any track, preferable with light. Go into photomode. Walk around in photomode and see that it's a 2D texture slapped onto a block for the headlights in GT5.

If I'm 1000 feet away from a car, why would I care if the LOD is lower? Why would I care if the headlight screws are modeled or not? If I zoom in, then I want to see it but if far distance away why would i care? And why would I want a system I'm on model that stuff and take a performance hit??

If you want to point out fanboyism, simply look in the mirror 💡

 

[PzR Slim]

That's the photomode model. Doesn't matter if you access to it from gameplay or a replay, in photomode the game changes the model from the player car to a high detailed one, the same that is used on the menus and in time trial.

Look at the AI cars in photomode, those are the ingame LOD.

Of course it is but that's where symtex took his pic from.

 

[Akira AC]

As people keep covering up the lower LOD present, I will post this again as an example of the lower LOD, I also should notice that many pictures posted recently violates the rules established on the first post.

Again, everyone is free to drawn their own conclusions.

 

[PzR Slim]

As people keep covering up the lower LOD present, I will post this again as an example of the lower LOD, I also should notice that many pictures posted recently violates the rules established on the first post.

Again, everyone is free to drawn their own conclusions.

Once again, that pic is taken in exactly the same mode I used. In a replay and then select take photo.

 

[PzR Slim]

Ok Akira, just for you here is a direct capture from my tv screen in a replay but not in photo mode. As you can see the AA is much lessened but the circle is really quite good and you can clearly see the lights have volume.

 

[SparksBCN]

As people keep covering up the lower LOD present, I will post this again as an example of the lower LOD, I also should notice that many pictures posted recently violates the rules established on the first post.

Man, that's the high detail LOD. The "poligonal" headlight looks like an effect from the pic being resized, but look at the rear view mirror, if that was the ingame LOD the mirror would be black and the interior would be black too for that matter...

 

[SparksBCN]

Ok Akira, just for you here is a direct capture from my tv screen in a replay but not in photo mode. As you can see the AA is much lessened but the circle is really quite good and you can clearly see the lights have volume.

That looks like time trial so the point is moot. The game uses the higher LOD for the player car in photomode and ingame in time trial, so...

 

[PzR Slim]

Man, that's the high detail LOD. The "poligonal" headlight looks like an effect from the pic being resized, but look at the rear view mirror, if that was the ingame LOD the mirror would be black and the interior would be black too for that matter...

Not true, would only be black in certain modes with lots of cars on track. In single player hotlapper there is no blacked out windows. Look at my pic in a replay but not photo mode.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I guess that people have been banned/called for detrimental posts of this nature, yet he is allowed to that without any recall?

Considering I have not violated any AUP, and merely expressed an opinion shared by many here, THAT is probably the reason.

In all fairness, what does such opinions and statements add to the conversation? not to mention that violates some of the rules stablish on the first post.

Clearly, if my opinions don't add anything, then why are you posting here?

Terrible way of thinking my friend if it was like that why compare the games anyway? If FM4 gets a new track in 3month because it did not come at launch it doesn't count or is it because of GT?

No, it's a clear way of thinking. It makes perfect sense.

Well, there's an unbiased post!

That's how we roll around here TD. We prefer to enjoy BOTH games, not just one 👍

Hey man I will never tell somebody their opinion is wrong, just as you feel for FM4 I do with GT5 and I will agree some cars are really jacked up but as a whole I love the sounds. The replays the tunnel driving the back fire pop etc. As for the better package GT5 offers more for me, I wont say is a better package because everybody plays their games differently. 👍

This is an excellent post and represents my feelings about gaming in general.

I am not I like both

You are biased to GT5. There is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't mean you can't like both games...it just means you prefer one game over the other.

That's the one thing I like about GT over FM is how the car's reflections look more realistic, since it seems like FM almost overdoes their paint reflections.

I have been finding the car reflections looking more realistic in FM4. They do a better job reflecting the environment, the cars and the light/sun.

The roundness of the headlamps is quite poor to be honest, that also includes some of the car's geometries.

While your opinion is noted, clearly most others have found the headlamps to NAIL it in accuracy. Many images have been posted showing this as well.

The headlamp is a volumetric object, not a picture closed in a circle.

The Mustang clearly has the volume shown.

Image compression has nothing to do with the number of vectors used to compose the circle, besides, after market bumpers should not affect the geometry composition of the car, likewise they should not affect the graphical output of the game(during replay).

Poor quality photos don't affect the appearance of a photo? Now THAT is one you don't hear everyday.

Thanks PzR Slim , I still cant figure out what he is talking about. Hopefully he can further explain his point thanks to your pictures.

He won't.

Again, I have no preferences in GT5 either, but FM4 graphical output isn't as spectacular as people claim, those images are testimonial of lower LODs used by FM games during gameplay.

But that is just your opinion. Why are you trying to pass it off as a fact. You do realize not everyone agrees with you, right?

That's the photomode model. Doesn't matter if you access to it from gameplay or a replay, in photomode the game changes the model from the player car to a high detailed one

I get the same photo quality in game photos, replay photos. It's the same model.

 

[SparksBCN]

Not true, would only be black in certain modes with lots of cars on track. In single player hotlapper there is no blacked out windows. Look at my pic in a replay but not photo mode.

Yeah, in time trial as I said the game uses the same model as photomode and menus, but that doesn't change the fact that in normal situations (8 or more cars on track) the cars don't look THAT good. They do look good and very consistent, but they don't look like that.

 

[PzR Slim]

That looks like time trial so the point is moot. The game uses the higher LOD for the player car in photomode and ingame in time trial, so...

Ok just checked a race replay and your right. Headlights still have volume though. Akira still has it wrong though. The pic symtex posted was the higher LOD and is the same LOD my initial pics were taken with. Something tells me he saw what he wanted to see.

Edit: still look pretty good though and looks like volume to me.

 

[SparksBCN]

Ok just checked a race replay and your right. Headlights still have volume though. Akira still has it wrong though. The pic symtex posted was the higher LOD and is the same LOD my initial pics were taken with. Something tells me he saw what he wanted to see.

That what I said, it was the high LOD and the "poligonated" effect had to be an artifact created when resizing the pic.

 

[prymet1me]

This argument has turned ridiculous, a poster claimed that the headlights on the mustang is a TEXTURE then a comparison came into play with a GT5 standard car. Why is this dragging on?

All games use LOD, what is the point, bottom line is the cars in FM are not using some terrible texture for headlights and etc as implied by a poster here.

 

[PzR Slim]

That what I said, it was the high LOD and the "poligonated" effect had to be an artifact created when resizing the pic.

Good spot. Here's the vid for what it's worth. Bit late as the discussion has moved on but thought I'd post it any way.

 

[dylansan]

"It's been known as a graphical glitch by other sections of the forums."

The standards awful look, is a graphical glitch ? FANTASTIC

And nitpicks a headlamp, go figure ....

That picture was around before the game was even released. There's been two graphical updates to the game since then.

 

[Symtex]

The fact that you are still arguing on my picture proofs the point that the LOD in Forza is very impressive. Here's another photo I took in REPLAY mode. No trick. Not photoshop or retouch in any form.

Original shot :

I pan the camera around and did a close up

 

[Clerigo]

Forza 4 vs GT5 AI comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdXriG8P31E

16 cars AI vs 12 cars AI

And take a look at the ferrari in both games, and compare them with a real F40.

 

[SparksBCN]

The fact that you are still arguing on my picture proofs the point that the LOD in Forza is very impressive. Here's another photo I took in REPLAY mode. No trick. Not photoshop or retouch in any form.

And again: The game replaces the player car with a higher LOD when in photomode. No matter if you access to it from gameplay or a replay, it replaces the LOD with a high detail one.

These pictures don't prove anything because they are from photomode, there's no such thing as "replay mode".

 

[Ooze27]

That's the one thing I like about GT over FM is how the car's reflections look more realistic, since it seems like FM almost overdoes their paint reflections.

It has nothing to do with it, look at the shadows and see exactly where the light is hitting, in Forza the lighting on those photos in more direct,so the reflections will be higher.

 

[Symtex]

And again: The game replaces the player car with a higher LOD when in photomode. No matter if you access to it from gameplay or a replay, it replaces the LOD with a high detail one.

These pictures don't prove anything because they are from photomode, there's no such thing as "replay mode".

Where are those high res LOD texture on the disk?

You are making an assumption without any proof. The replay looks exactly the same as gameplay