FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Akira AC]

If you're a fan of endurance races then you'd want damage as one of the top features, not weather or time transitions. There's nothing endurance about being able to wall grind, bump n run and pinging redline while downshifting. Biggest endurance race in the world is LeMans24 and every year almost half the starting grid goes out due to some damage related event, whether it's a crash or a system failure of some sort.

I wonder what part of that includes the visibility changes as an integral part of races, and the strategy that has to be executed when different amounts of grip are present in the surface as they change depending on the weather, also the part that considers endurance races as more lasting than 2 hours.

However it does lacks the Deux-Ex Machina that gets you back 5 seconds in time, that is uber realistic.

 

[HAL20XX]

However it does lacks the Deux-Ex Machina that gets you back 5 seconds in time, that is uber realistic.

Much like the "Nintendo Time" where 24-hours is condensed into 2?

 

[cuco33]

I wonder what part of that includes the visibility changes as an integral part of races, and the strategy that has to be executed when different amounts of grip are present in the surface as they change depending on the weather, also the part that considers endurance races as more lasting than 2 hours.

However it does lacks the Deux-Ex Machina that gets you back 5 seconds in time, that is uber realistic.

Being an endurance race fan in real life, even going to the 75th anniversary of the 24 Hrs of Le Mans and a few ALMS events, damage/crashes happen more often than weather and not all enduros see the night time. Some enduros are only 1.5hrs, I believe a Mazda event in Japan. Many are less than 3hrs like the ALMS @ Lime Rock. Neither do it right/wrong and if you put together both games and made 1 you'd have the best console racing sim out there which does things like endurance races properly. The sole creation of endurance racing was to see what car/team wins in a race that can last X hours/laps, as in seeing the reliability of the car. Peugeot might have given Audi some competition in P1 when they introduced their 908 diesels to Le Mans but... they had issues with failed systems. And Audi won this year's Le Mans event with their rookie 3rd team/car after their top 2 teams/cars crashed out of the race

Oh and FYI, Kaz having real world experience in Nurb24 he'd see that being the 3rd driver, there's driver swaps. So why code a game expecting you to race a 24 hour event single-handed??
I'm not trying to downplay weather and dynamic time of day here as you see it in GT5. I think GT5 does a great job at it, phenomenal at times even, even with performance hits like frame rate drops, screen tearing and pixelation of the cars in rain. But it also lacks important things in their endurance events as well.

 

[azrael1965]

Oh and FYI, Kaz having real world experience in Nurb24 he'd see that being the 3rd driver, there's driver swaps. So why code a game expecting you to race a 24 hour event single-handed??

Maybe the game is not expecting you to race the 24 hour event single-handed.
Some guys at gtplanet have tried to do the race as a team. The driver changed only during pit stops of course.

 

[Bogie 19th]

What's the point of being able to simulate a 24 hour race when you can't simulate a miss-shift which could wipe out your gearbox?

Essentially, what you are saying is..that since you can't really simulate the 24 hour race properly without all of the possible simulation opportunities, there is no need to even have a 24 hour race, because you are not simulating it.

People seem to confuse GT and Forza with actual SIMS. These are sim-cades, and will always be. You will never get all of the sim features to properly represent the real life racing environments.

 

[cuco33]

Maybe the game is not expecting you to race the 24 hour event single-handed.
Some guys at gtplanet have tried to do the race as a team. The driver changed only during pit stops of course.

Aspec is single player career. There were no pit stop saves up until PD patched it based on the demands of the fans.Yes, they expected 1 player to race a 24hr event solo. If you decide to change at home that's like passing the controller in a shooter amongst your friends. It's still 1 player being registered.

I think what would have been cool is if PD coded A and B spec together for endurance races. Basically your Aspec would be 1 driver and you pick your Bspec drivers. Then when you pit in you have the option to change out drivers and strategize the driver order, tires, fuel, etc. Whenever it's your turn the game would hand back the controls to you so you can race. If you entered low level Bspecs, or aggressive Bspecs and something happened in the race like over aggression causing an accident or low level Bspec being passed on the track, when you take over you have to bring back the team up the standings.

 

[GTForzafan]

Yes, Finally updated GT5... it took ages....
To be fair, the game is better, but did it change dramatically on the crucial areas ?
No, to me at least... it doesn't.....
Forza 4 should also have some kind of update.....
There are some issues....

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

[/B][/B]

Have you played GT5? When damage is on heavy it does not wear off you have to go to the pit's to get it fixed your talking about light damage LMS 👍 No more hard feelings man 👍, and your right he did state his opinion in the first part the second part no.

I have played GT5 and yes you're correct this time light damage does hurt your car badly but wears off, the heavy damage is what stays until you pit. I forgot, and was wrong so thanks for the correction. Also I'm use to playing online with light damage everywhere. I guess my only complaint for GT damage would be it just doesn't look realistic cosmetic wise but there are people that don't need it or care just as long as mechanical is realistic.

So I understand that.

 

[azrael1965]

I think what would have been cool is if PD coded A and B spec together for endurance races. Basically your Aspec would be 1 driver and you pick your Bspec drivers. Then when you pit in you have the option to change out drivers and strategize the driver order, tires, fuel, etc. Whenever it's your turn the game would hand back the controls to you so you can race. If you entered low level Bspecs, or aggressive Bspecs and something happened in the race like over aggression causing an accident or low level Bspec being passed on the track, when you take over you have to bring back the team up the standings.

Yes that would be a cool feature. I really hope they would implement something like that.

 

[Terronium-12]

They already did. It's in GT4, you can switch to and from a B-Spec driver every time you enter the pit area. Why such a feature was omitted and is apparently still omitted is beyond me.

Then again as many of the ne'er-do-well decisions PD made regarding 5 I'm not surprised one bit.

 

[Spagetti69]

Wow still banging on in hear eh.

Group hug guys. Let's have a love in.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They already did. It's in GT4, you can switch to and from a B-Spec driver every time you enter the pit area. Why such a feature was omitted and is apparently still omitted is beyond me.

Then again as many of the ne'er-do-well decisions PD made regarding 5 I'm not surprised one bit.

Have to agree, I think bringing back manufacture only races like the old games instead of B-spec only races would have been better and put b-spec back to the way Gt4 had it would have been best. I mean I'll run a couple 8 hour stints at N24, but I don't really have any friends that will stop by and play the rest for me on A-spec...hence why the old b-spec would be nice. Oh well though

 

[Terronium-12]

It's all in the "spirit" of GT.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's all in the "spirit" of GT.

HAHAHA that "spirit" stuff gets me all the time.

 

[Bogie 19th]

It's like a Soul Kitchen here!

 

[cuco33]

They already did. It's in GT4, you can switch to and from a B-Spec driver every time you enter the pit area. Why such a feature was omitted and is apparently still omitted is beyond me.

Then again as many of the ne'er-do-well decisions PD made regarding 5 I'm not surprised one bit.

I never tried it in GT4 but I have heard about it a few times. I don't get why they didn't incorporate it into GT5. I think it would have been perfect too. Level up your drivers so they aren't rookies crashing all over the place, then again even my level 40 Bspecs tend to crash on occasion like a rookie. lol

 

[SKOT_FREE]

I played F4 yesterday at best buy on a 42" flatscreen and while the car interiors look awesome the tracks themselves are lacking. Not only that I found nothing in the game to sway me to buy a 360 just to play FM4. It's more like Both GT5 and FM4 have their good and bad points but I would say both are the best race games on their respective consoles. If I had to choose overall and not nitpick issues I'd still have to say I like the feel and racing in GT5, but if I had a 360 I'd still would get F4 for its community features most definite.

 

[phillgt2002]

None of the photos posted do forza any justice. I took my own

 

[Vaxxtx]

I played F4 yesterday at best buy on a 42" flatscreen and while the car interiors look awesome the tracks themselves are lacking. Not only that I found nothing in the game to sway me to buy a 360 just to play FM4. It's more like Both GT5 and FM4 have their good and bad points but I would say both are the best race games on their respective consoles. If I had to choose overall and not nitpick issues I'd still have to say I like the feel and racing in GT5, but if I had a 360 I'd still would get F4 for its community features most definite.

I find those two comments kind of funny.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

I wonder what part of that includes the visibility changes as an integral part of races, and the strategy that has to be executed when different amounts of grip are present in the surface as they change depending on the weather, also the part that considers endurance races as more lasting than 2 hours.

However it does lacks the Deux-Ex Machina that gets you back 5 seconds in time, that is uber realistic.

I agree with that, a 24 hour race without realistic time and weather change isn't at all realistic.

 

[HAL20XX]

I find those two comments kind of funny.

Right! I looked at the cover art of GT5 and felt the physics weren't realistic.

 

[Akira AC]

*Photos that should not be posted*

Don't just post up pictures and video without any form of meaningful comment. This is a discussion thread not a picture/video gallery.

So?

 

[Spagetti69]

I agree with that, a 24 hour race without realistic time and weather change isn't at all realistic.

Any 24 hr race games out there without time change? I'm not aware of any.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I agree with that, a 24 hour race without realistic time and weather change isn't at all realistic.

I agree, and a 24 hour race without realistic damage isn't at all realistic.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I agree, and a 24 hour race without realistic damage isn't at all realistic.

Forza 4 has none of these features so you never going to get realism in regards to a 24Hr race because there is no way you can do one if I'm not mistaken. GT5 is probably the closest you are going to get regards to that on the consoles as it has day and night cycles, weather and also mechanical damage even if it is not realistic as real life. If it was there would be many gamers not happy due to not being able to finish the 24Hr race due to race ending damage. It would be good to add as an option though although I doubt many will want to as people who are going to attempt it are generally going to look for 100% completion, not the experience.

Anyway I wonder how long it will be before we get visual and mechanical chassis deformation and race ending crashes in GT or FM at least for race cars.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Forza 4 has none of these features so you never going to get realism in regards to a 24Hr race because there is no way you can do one if I'm not mistaken.

Forza 4 has a SUBSTANTIALLY better damage system that would indeed be acceptable in a 24 hour race console sim, unlike GT5.

GT5 is probably the closest you are going to get regards to that on the consoles as it has day and night cycles, weather and also mechanical damage even if it is not realistic as real life.

Not even close. The damage ruins it for GT5, they should take it out. The inability to change drivers ruins it for GT5, they should take it out. 24 hour racing is a JOKE in GT5 and shouldn't have been implemented half assed.

Anyway I wonder how long it will be before we get visual and mechanical chassis deformation and race ending crashes in GT or FM at least for race cars.

GT5 needs more much fixed in the damage department before it even considers chassis damage.

 

[JDMKING13]

Forza 4 has a SUBSTANTIALLY better damage system that would indeed be acceptable in a 24 hour race console sim, unlike GT5.



Not even close. The damage ruins it for GT5, they should take it out. The inability to change drivers ruins it for GT5, they should take it out. 24 hour racing is a JOKE in GT5 and shouldn't have been implemented half assed.



GT5 needs more much fixed in the damage department before it even considers chassis damage.

I would like to know why FM4 damage system is so better than GT5, only thing I think is better in FM4 is the transmission damage, other than that I play on heavy damage all the time, you hit the wall your race is over unless you make it to the pit's.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Sometimes I wonder if you even have either game when you ask questions like that.

 

[jergto]

Sometimes I wonder if you even have either game when you ask questions like that.

Exactly I have both games, damage in Forza is more realistic than GT5.

I just looked at GT5s damage modeling system on a Speed 12 crashing into a wall at 60mph and there was just black scuff marks on the left side of the headlights. LOL pathetic man.

So there goes GT5's damage being realistic, not to mention its on a standard car which means 500+ cars not only have the ****** pixelated look from PS2's GT4, all of those standards have ****** damage modeling as well!

Edit:
Here's another kicker, I tried to see if there was any actual damage (turning none/light/heavy) setting in A-Spec and THERE WASN'T.
At least not the tracks that I tried it on, Beginner > FR challenge, Expert > Dreamcar Championship.

Only place they had adjustable mechanical damage was in practice mode. Also, I turned the damage to heavy, crashed at over 100mph in Grand Valley using E-brake (because I didn't want to go through sand pit to crash at the end of the straight). And there was only passenger side rear tire damage! Yup crashing at over 100mph. It took a 2nd time to crash to have damage on the front passenger tire and a middle damage which I'm assuming is transmission. The sad part is I was still able to drive relatively fast although the car was hobbling.

 

[JDMKING13]

Sometimes I wonder if you even have either game when you ask questions like that.

As usual.

Exactly I have both games, damage in Forza is more realistic than GT5.

I just looked at GT5s damage modeling system on a Speed 12 crashing into a wall at 60mph and there was just black scuff marks on the left side of the headlights. LOL pathetic man.

So there goes GT5's damage being realistic, not to mention its on a standard car which means 500+ cars not only have the ****** pixelated look from PS2's GT4, all of those standards have ****** damage modeling as well!

Edit:
Here's another kicker, I tried to see if there was any actual damage (turning none/light/heavy) setting in A-Spec and THERE WASN'T.
At least not the tracks that I tried it on, Beginner > FR challenge, Expert > Dreamcar Championship.

Only place they had adjustable mechanical damage was in practice mode. Also, I turned the damage to heavy, crashed at over 100mph in Grand Valley using E-brake (because I didn't want to go through sand pit to crash at the end of the straight). And there was only passenger side rear tire damage! Yup crashing at over 100mph. It took a 2nd time to crash to have damage on the front passenger tire and a middle damage which I'm assuming is transmission. The sad part is I was still able to drive relatively fast although the car was hobbling.

It's known there is no damage in a-spec mode which sucks, but doesn't bother me because I race online, free lap, arcade race where damage is available, The more you drive on a broken part the car gets worse, you mess up your engine it struggles and you can hear it. what I like about FM is the transmission damage GT5 doesn't have it and how if you over rev the engine it gets damaged. In GT5 the more you crash over time you also have to do a chassis repair which is cool.