FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Ooze27]

This is what i meant by that damage isn't that important. I restart again if i make a mistake that would be fatal. Most damage systems are too forgiving in my eyes anyway, or offer a rewind function.

i used to think the same way until it happened on an endurance race on the last lap in Mugello if i'm not mistaken.Thank T10 for the rewind function lol.

 

[FyreandIce]

As far as I am concerned, there is no comparison in damage. FM4's looks better, reacts better, has more functionality and is a dam sight more realistic than GT5's. As someone said, cooking clutches, brakes, proper tyre wear/damage, physical damage, aero damage etc.

Please tell me that sticker is on the store front somewhere!

 

[azrael1965]

i used to think the same way until it happened on an endurance race on the last lap in Mugello if i'm not mistaken.Thank T10 for the rewind function lol.

I believe i would have used the rewind in this situation as well. But as i said damage is not that crucial to me. As i said before it in real life , if there is a accident usually the cars involved stop being competitive, so i would either restart or forfeit.

Rewind is optional. As for damage, it's a sim, and damage is one of the most important aspects of a simulation...because it simulates what happens on the track everyday to all drivers.

In most cases a 'Game over' sign would do the job as well.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I believe i would have used the rewind in this situation as well. But as i said damage is not that crucial to me. As i said before it in real life , if there is a accident usually the cars involved stop being competitive, so i would either restart or forfeit.

In most cases a 'Game over' sign would do the job as well.

Not sure we follow you.

 

[ItsHim]

...because it simulates what happens on the track everyday to all drivers.

For a second I thought you were talking about weather there.

Anyway, in your book Grid and Burnout were the perfect simulators then? Oh bugger.

From a game play standpoint damage is a rather mixed bag. And can be easily exploited to rig races online.

Like an example? Host fails to win any races. He then changes starting grid to "reverse" and damage to heavy. First corner makes sure he comes out on top. Session ruined. At least it was that way in my FM2 days.

For offline you simply have to have a rewind feature or else you annoy 90% of the gamers. The whining would be colossal.

So, in the end, if you chose not to use rewind its probably game over anyway. If you chose to use it, it's not much use at all.

Nope, can't see damage working in a main stream sim title as Forza or GT. Was great in Grid though.

I rather take night/day cycles any day, thank you very much.

 

[PzR Slim]

For a second I thought you were talking about weather there.

Anyway, in your book Grid and Burnout were the perfect simulators then? Oh bugger.

From a game play standpoint damage is a rather mixed bag. And can be easily exploited to rig races online.

Like an example? Host fails to win any races. He then changes starting grid to "reverse" and damage to heavy. First corner makes sure he comes out on top. Session ruined. At least it was that way in my FM2 days.

For offline you simply have to have a rewind feature or else you annoy 90% of the gamers. The whining would be colossal.

So, in the end, if you chose not to use rewind its probably game over anyway. If you chose to use it, it's not much use at all.

Nope, can't see damage working in a main stream sim title as Forza or GT. Was great in Grid though.

I rather take night/day cycles any day, thank you very much.

Damage has, is and will contine to be a great feature for the online league racers I compete in in FM. It works fantastically and adds another great dimension to our racing. You must be extremely shortsighted to not see it working.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Damage IS part of racing. Period. Whether it be rubbing bumpers, a broken spring, a destroyed clutch, or a wreck that totals the car. Its a LARGE part of racing.

In fact just tonight, in FM4 online, I had these happen:

1. Destroyed my clutch in a Mercedes 190E by abusing it at the begining of a race (yeah FM4 doesnt just have rolling starts). Came in last, because it was damaged.

2. Rolled my 03 Mustang Cobra after taking a corner really bad, and hitting a curb. My race was over, and I was just sitting in my car on its side till folks finished.

3. Got T-Boned in my Boss 429 by a Camero that went off track and came back on...without yielding. I hit the wall, and it messed up my engine, and alignment. Again, I came in last limping around the track getting lapped, by going about 34 mph, and having to hold the wheel at 45 degrees to go strait.

Not only do you FEEL the damage, but you can see it as well. Bumpers falling onto the track, paint gone, fenders dented, and smoke coming out of your car.

Can you do any of that in GT5? Do you ever need to worry about killing your gears by dropping from 6th gear to 2nd? No. You dont. Do you ever cringe when overtaking somebody hoping they dont turn in, because it ccould end the race for you? Never happened to me in GT5, because, well, there is no
consequence, besides a little annoyance.

So I call FM4 more of a sim than GT5 anyday. Damage is just one reason.

^^^ what he said 👍

It's funny how everyone wants to debate realism (physics, graphics, sound, etc.) until they don't have it in their racing sim of choice.

What wasn't mentioned above was also the "sound" of hitting a barrier or another car. Shift 2 did a fantastic job imitating a crashing sound - it almost hurt .
Forza 4 does a good job in this department. Accidents happen and IMO the result should be physical and "visual". When I miss my braking point and head straight into a wall I want to cringe in anticipation - brought on by the sights and sounds of the encounter. Sorry, IMO this is an area that irritates me in GT5. That "bonk" sound when you hit something and how nice and clean my car looks afterward.
When I watch an IRL race, all the cars don't look pristine at the finish. The visual damage tells a story of a racer's day. Some games replicate the physical and visual damage better than others and those that do step the realism up a notch.

 

[ItsHim]

Damage has, is and will contine to be a great feature for the online league racers I compete in in FM. It works fantastically and adds another great dimension to our racing. You must be extremely shortsighted to not see it working.

You are right. Somehow I completely overlooked private lobbies and organised events. How very shortsighted of me.

 

[Tornado]

Anyway, in your book Grid and Burnout were the perfect simulators then? Oh bugger.

Must be wonderful over there in your world of straw.

 

[Bogie 19th]

For a second I thought you were talking about weather there.

Nope...clearly was talking about damage.

Anyway, in your book Grid and Burnout were the perfect simulators then? Oh bugger.

Anyway, in your book Grid and Burnout were the perfect simulators because you can race in them? Oh bugger.

From a game play standpoint damage is a rather mixed bag. And can be easily exploited to rig races online.

You can rig anything online.

Like an example? Host fails to win any races. He then changes starting grid to "reverse" and damage to heavy. First corner makes sure he comes out on top. Session ruined. At least it was that way in my FM2 days.

Yup, bad apples in all the bunches online....in GT and Forza. Just like real life.

Nope, can't see damage working in a main stream sim title as Forza or GT.

Yup, we can't imagine racing sims without damage anymore. Luckily they all have damage now as everyone has requested.

I rather take night/day cycles any day, thank you very much.

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the most important, weather/day change is probably a 3 for me. Damage is probably a solid 8.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Nope, can't see damage working in a main stream sim title as Forza or GT. Was great in Grid though.

I rather take night/day cycles any day, thank you very much.

Yeah, you cant see it in GT5 because its pretty horrible. And you cant see it in FM because I assume you dont play it.

This is what i meant by that damage isn't that important. I restart again if i make a mistake that would be fatal. Most damage systems are too forgiving in my eyes anyway, or offer a rewind function.

 

[Bogie 19th]

But you take GT fans serious? Have you read this thread? Double standards much?

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

I don't enjoy motorsports crashes IRL as it reduces the field and competitiveness of the race. Just as I don't enjoy fighting in ice hockey as many do - it stops the action of the game which is why I am going in the first place.
But that is a different issue than physical and visual damage in a racing game. Racing is sometimes a brutal sport, and in the case of Weldon very tragic. A virtual racing sim will never completely simulate the IRL experience but if they can add features and functionality that enhances then I am all for it - immersion!

Last I checked this is a Forza sub-forum and why some feel compelled to come here and to go to great lengths to knock Forza down is beyond me (not saying it has no faults). Debating Nordscheilfe or physics or graphics - I get that. It is VERY clear the intend of many. Again, I don't go to the GT forums and post about Forza's damage model or livery editor or leaderboards -they over there don't want to hear that.
With that said, this topic can present some interesting comparisons but it gets ridiculous on what becomes a focus of debate. Again, I don't understand the motive of some because if they were truly virtual racing enthusiasts they would be rejoicing in the availability of another version of a very good sim to add to their collection.
If I was going to take a guess I would say the motive in many cases is "if you cannot join them, knock em down".

 

[Ooze27]

Damage is important in racing games, it forces you to behave like you would do in a real car, although the consequences can't be compared.That said, i thought GT5 had damage, just not cosmetic damage, that is, damaging the engine, suspension etc. is possible isn't it?

As for night, i can only see it in 24 hours races but i do agree that weather is important, after all many races in real life are decided on which driver drives the best on the rain or the pit stop strategy when changing to rain tires etc. I would find it ridiculous in a 4 or 5 lap race, but it would be nice in a 30 lap race for example.Both games have they shortcomings in some areas and make up for it in other areas.I dream of T10 and PD doing a game together, that would be awesome as hell.

 

[Scaff]

I'm going to make this simple, those members who can't tell that you discuss the point not attack the person get a two day ban from GT Planet (however if this is not your first offence we will simply go straight to the ban).

The staff can easily delete the pointless attacks on each other (be it an individual or a group) and make sure you can't continue in the same vein, so to be blunt you gain nothing by it.

Follow the AUP and the guidelines in the first post or loose you ability to contribute (and I use that term very lightly at the moment).


Scaff

 

[GTForzafan]

No one answered my questions....
Can i update the GT5 game, without having a good internet connection ?
Like USB or something else... ?
I would like to try again, play GT5....

 

[goldiefx]

GTForzafan i dont think you can

 

[GTForzafan]

So i'm screwed.... :\
Everyone who is a fan of motorsports likes Games, like Forza 4 and GT5, they offer something unique...
Only devoted fans, have a one-sided vision !
Both sides have some really annoying fans, no game is perfect
But i feel that sometimes, forza franchise and Gran turismo franchise, are not judged by the games that they offer, but the brands that they represent...

 

[ItsHim]

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the most important, weather/day change is probably a 3 for me. Damage is probably a solid 8.

That's a reasonable statement because it expresses your personal preferences.

Judging the relevance of a feature by "what happens every day" can go in many directions.

To me it's weather. Or, as I'm fond of endurance races, day/night cycles.

To you it's damage. Fair enough to say you prefer FM over GT because it has a feature you crave for.

But as an argument pro or contra the "sim-ness" of either game, it just won't do.

Glad we could settle this.

 

[Scaff]

Clear piece of advice.

When the staff clearly indicate that a topic is closed, by removing the posts, then do not bring that subject back it.

It also pays to take notice of staff advice to follow the AUP when you post, the one you agreed to when you joined and that includes the following....

You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

....so please ensure that it is followed.


Scaff

 

[Bogie 19th]

But as an argument pro or contra the "sim-ness" of either game, it just won't do.

Not sure we understand what you are saying here?

 

[another_jakhole]

Yeah .., that's what is on my mind while i'm racing ..You wait and see ..! I Forza 4 FTW .You just enjoy your 100 honda's , 96 mazda's , 70 mitsubishi's and whatever ****** cars they put in there in ridiculous numbers . 13 daihatsu's .., pff ..., wankers . Let's face it .., that high number of cars in GT5 means nothing . Over 60% are cars that you would not pick up a date in so why the hell would you drive em in a game. Ow ..uuh.., date .You know ., take a girl out . Uuh ..,girl...

I shuddered when I first read it.

NO ONE on GTPlanet is like this, just to make it clear that I'm not pointing any fingers.

AUP
"You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack any individual or any group."

Now, if I get in trouble for this, I will start losing hope in mankind's future safety. My deleted post did not attack anyone or any group in particular to begin with. It even included this, "NO ONE on GTPlanet is like this, just to make it clear that I'm not pointing any fingers", for clarification that I really wasn't attacking anyone or any group in particular. I had 2 extra sentences, in which I stated how unreasonable the "EXTREMISTS" can be. I find it disturbing, because I completely believed I was following the rules of the AUP. I posted that quote as an example of the unreasonable people on YOUTUBE.

Also, why is this thread STILL in the Forza section? This is a Gran Turismo forum.

How about telling someone to walk into a bar in IRELAND or Mexico and have him debate every person in there about the "pointless" drug that is Alcohol. We're on home turf, heading into foreign enemy territory. It doesn't seem right.

"Offending posts will be deleted on sight."
I wasn't replying to anyone here. I was stating something about certain people who like to make comments like Youtube Numbskull did. I never used the word fanboy. I only said that people who say things like Youtube Numbskull said, have got to have trouble reading books.


EDIT

Appreciate it, Scaff. Fixed the swear word.

Next time PM the staff member in question before you start publicly shouting about how you are not in the wrong, and make sure you aren't breaking the AUP before you do.

I'm trying to be as honest as possible. Thanks for the direct warning, otherwise I wouldn't have known what I did wrong and now I know not to ramble on like-so in the future.

I only added this extra stuff to let it be known that I accept that I was wrong. I really only quoted that youtube comment in the first place, because it showcases the difference of a fanboy and a terrible human being. I didn't want to start a war. I read your warnings on this very page. I wasn't posting to be a rebel or anything that puts me in the wrong.

 

[Scaff]

Your posts were deleted because you posted the exact same message in two threads, which is both un-needed and potential spam.

Its standard to delete post whenever this happens, as the reason for deletion made quite clear.

In future if you have a query about moderation that PM the staff member in question, do not drag a post off-topic with it.

However back to your post in hand, I would still be within the bounds of the AUP to delete it for being borderline flame-bait and also for bypassing the swear filter(even in a quote YOU are responsible for the content and the removal of a letter or two is not sufficient).

Next time PM the staff member in question before you start publicly shouting about how you are not in the wrong, and make sure you aren't breaking the AUP before you do.

You want to carry on discussing this then PM me, but you will get back on topic now.


Scaff

 

[goldiefx]

Sorry Scaff thought i was using capital letters, guess i was holding down control not shift lol

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

LMS why..... just like you told me before this is a GT vs FM thread not PC.... to keep it real I don't like you even with GTforzafan we might not agree but the man can debate he doesn't make himself seem, better than others or throw personal attacks I had a small problem with what he said and it's in the AUP do not state opinion as facts. I know your trying to get back at me but GTforzafan is a big boy and can hold his own once again please stop quoting me thank you.

Edit can someone help me with the ignore list I never used it before, but it's time thank you. 👍

At Vaxxx i'm going to use your famous quote you must not have played GT and to keep it real with you all I care about is mechanical damage which GT5 has so i'm good. 👍

Seriously be descriptive I'm not trying to get back at you, but show me how in that post I am. The eyeroll thing shows how your being a know it all but okay I guess I'm the know it all. Also I made a comment toward you because you were wrong, you said he stated an opinion as fact, when he clearly didn't.

Anyways go do what you want, I just don't see why you think you can make inaccurate comments with out having to pay for it. Others (as myself) seem to apologize when they're wrong on this thread why not you? Anyways sorry if I ruined your time.

Also as far as damage goes...I know that damage especially online makes me a better driver especially when I'm in a heated race and don't want to exit a room just for crashing out and not being able to catch up. Also the mechanical damge for GT isn't all that realistic when it just wears off after a short time span.

 

[Starfirebird]

You know what i think?

GT5 and FM4 rocks. 👍

 

[JDMKING13]

Seriously be descriptive I'm not trying to get back at you, but show me how in that post I am. The eyeroll thing shows how your being a know it all but okay I guess I'm the know it all. Also I made a comment toward you because you were wrong, you said he stated an opinion as fact, when he clearly didn't.

Anyways go do what you want, I just don't see why you think you can make inaccurate comments with out having to pay for it. Others (as myself) seem to apologize when they're wrong on this thread why not you? Anyways sorry if I ruined your time.

Also as far as damage goes...I know that damage especially online makes me a better driver especially when I'm in a heated race and don't want to exit a room just for crashing out and not being able to catch up. Also the mechanical damge for GT isn't all that realistic when it just wears off after a short time span.

Have you played GT5? When damage is on heavy it does not wear off you have to go to the pit's to get it fixed your talking about light damage LMS 👍 No more hard feelings man 👍, and your right he did state his opinion in the first part the second part no.

 

[Da-Bomber]

Was there ever a poll? Something I would like to see what people prefer.

 

[PzR Slim]

Was there ever a poll? Something I would like to see what people prefer.

I'm not sure a poll on a GT5 themed site would really tell us much to be honest.

FM4's physics keep impressing me the more I play. We had the first round of our first FM4 comp on another site last night. It was multi class racing with half the lobby in a slightly upgraded and tuned MX5 and the other half, including me, in a slightly upgraded and tuned Kia Cee'd. The guy running the comp had tuned the cars himself and he'd done a good job. The Kia was nice and easy to drive but when you started pushing to the limit the new physics really came to the fore.

Particularly the improved tyre model and feeling of weight transfer. I always found driving at the limit in FM3 in a fwd car to be pretty easy, as long as you got your speed right for any particular corner you would be ok, but in FM4 driving at the limit takes a lot more skill but is much more rewarding. I still had GT5 slightly ahead in the physics department when I first got FM4 but the more I play the more that opinion starts to change.

 

[cuco33]

That's a reasonable statement because it expresses your personal preferences.

Judging the relevance of a feature by "what happens every day" can go in many directions.

To me it's weather. Or, as I'm fond of endurance races, day/night cycles.

To you it's damage. Fair enough to say you prefer FM over GT because it has a feature you crave for.

But as an argument pro or contra the "sim-ness" of either game, it just won't do.

Glad we could settle this.

If you're a fan of endurance races then you'd want damage as one of the top features, not weather or time transitions. There's nothing endurance about being able to wall grind, bump n run and pinging redline while downshifting. Biggest endurance race in the world is LeMans24 and every year almost half the starting grid goes out due to some damage related event, whether it's a crash or a system failure of some sort.
For me, in games like these, damage is a big part. One of the best races I had with friends was a 25 lapper in Forza 2 where I was victim to turn 1 🤬 thanks to not as good drivers. Pitted in to do repairs and even though aero was affected I was a better driver to the point that the last lap I was just a car length away from winning. Ended in 2nd place and was the best racing I did with friends where a damage system so happened to be the big reason for how awesome of a race it was.