FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[I'm Motarded]

I do get the feeling that FM3 was simply a pretty decent FM2.5/test-bed for the real meat and potatoes of FM4.

I have no doubt FM4 will be a test bed for FM5.

The good things about having sub 3 year release schedule are

• it's not releasing every year so the game can evolve enough not to be the same/almost identical as last years.
• it gives you a solid year of collecting data of in-game player habits
• you can see what works and what doesn't without leaving the core with what doesn't for what feels like eternity to them
• the major bugs can be patched, but relatively smaller bugs can wait until the next release. Huge or constant patches can create issues in other areas
• public beta testing on a mass scale while being paid
• steady/growing income to fund the next two years worth of development
• a strict working deadline the team can settle into
• should keep the investors happy
• something fans look forward to and expect

The bad

• some gamers hate having to buy so often with a sandbox game
• strict deadlines mean some features will inevitably be dropped
• you are stuck with the smaller bugs for 18months
• the backlash of CPL exclusion on your own forums
• other things I can't think of..

 

[t.o.]

How are you defining a "good online experience", If my idea is to run a S class room on the nurb for hours on end, how can the hopper system satisfy me as a player, with my very specialized ideal of a good online racing experience.

As far as private lobbies are concerned, one has to assume that..

(a) i have a large amount of friends on my friends list (which i dont)
(b) that most of those people on my friends list are Forza players (they are not)
(c) Out of those forza Players on my friends list, there are a sufficient amount of them logged into the game at the same time as me (most are not)
(d) Those that are willing to join my room, also wish to spend the night playing the classes, tracks, lobby restrictions that i need in place for my enjoyment of the game. (most will not)
(e) that i dont get bored to death playing exclusively with the same tiny group of people every day (i will get bored of playing against the same people all the time)

Guys like GeorgiaDawg, Jed and if memory serves Daveyskills, were all against the exclusion of the CPL's, are you telling me that these guy who are the cream of the hotlapping community, have no other reason for wanting CPL's other than to trounce newbies ?

How the CPL's worked was certain hosts/rooms attracted players who liked the same specialized interests as the host (ie: TCS off/power tracks/A class/no LB cars) , but were open for anyone to join, because there are new players constantly coming onto the scene, and older ones leaving or taking a break, it gave newer skilled players a way of getting to race against and interact with the established hardcore members of the forza multiplayer scene.

It was a very dynamic scene, you got to meet many new players, rub shoulders with the greats, mark out your favorite hosts/rooms, and build on those experiences until you found your niche, but you were always free to break away explore the diverse online scene when ever you felt the need.

..............

However the opinion you expressed was in part the exact same one T10 had at the time, the CPL's are not a newbie friendly environment on the whole, the error that T10 made was in fearing that have both the CPL's and the Hoppers existing along side each other would split the online user base, so they forced the majority to use the casual friendly hopper system.

T10 have finally realized that the community is split by default, theres nothing T10 can do about that it, all they can do is provide features/systems that allow both groups to experience the game in different ways, Hoppers for the casuals & CPL's for the hardcore audience.

Will that split the online user base.....yes...... we just have to accept that and move on.

When I initially played FM2 the CPL's were no more than chumps setting up rooms to trounce new guys like me. I will say that 1 out of 100 rooms I went in were nothing but this. I DID finally run into some rooms with guys who were willing and wanted to help new guys along but the VAST majority were guys looking for easy wins. I think we can safely say that , especially with the online climate of these days, you will run into guys looking for easy wins way more than helpful guys.

 

[amar212]

I personally think the whole backlash was WAY overblown and really, to me, felt like a bunch of guys who wanted to trounce all over unsuspecting newbies to the game which is VERY sad.

It wasn't overblown, it was reality.

In late December 2009, Saturday night had around 5000 players playing in all lobbies combined. It was shame really. And in March 2010 it was down to 2-2500 at peaks.

Also, they further alienate "serious" players by constant bashing and miss-management of "serious" lobbies. I can't even remember the amount of irrational moves made from March to July 2010 in order to make "serious" player more satisfied.

Examples I can remember at this point:

problem: AWD domination
solution: introduction of RWD lobbies in B and A class
result: they ditched B-class hoppers and left A only. Only one car was dominating the field in 2 days.

problem: no filtering for assists
solution: introduction of no-assists hoppers
result: ABS and driving-line were still available as assist

problem: no stock car hoppers
solution: introduction of stock car hoppers
result: no assists-filtering, certain cars were tied to certain tracks forever

problem: no hoppers for *serious* players
solution: introduction of Expert hoppers
result: all races were 3-7 laps max (no strategy involved) and assists were allowed

And list goes on. Nurburgring GP DLC track was missing from hoppers, Nordschelife could only be run in separate hoppers for 1-lap races and dominating S and R classes (you couldn't run lowered tier cars on Nurb by no chance) as Fujimi Kaido and Costa Amalfi full-scale tracks, etc.

What Mr Fox highlighted is sheer point of problems with hoppers-system:

As far as private lobbies are concerned, one has to assume that..

(a) i have a large amount of friends on my friends list (which i dont)
(b) that most of those people on my friends list are Forza players (they are not)
(c) Out of those forza Players on my friends list, there are a sufficient amount of them logged into the game at the same time as me (most are not)
(d) Those that are willing to join my room, also wish to spend the night playing the classes, tracks, lobby restrictions that i need in place for my enjoyment of the game. (most will not)
(e) that i dont get bored to death playing exclusively with the same tiny group of people every day (i will get bored of playing against the same people all the time)

And you just couldn't expand on your experience or friendships through hoopers because such short races were only leading to constant destruction derby because people were killing each other for the win.

 

[Spagetti69]

Nurburgring GP was available to race if I remember correctly.

Edit.

I never thought ABS and Driving line would make you quicker anyhow.

Most of my online was in private rooms where the setup options were excellent.

Hoping for variable fuel loads this time.

 

[jabofu]

The graphics have been a big part of this FM vs GT. In my eyes the graphics of FM 3 and GT5s "Premium-Part" are quite equal. I took these shots from the ingame photomode while testdriving on tsukuba in both games. Without the Forza 3 logo, you wouldnt see much of a difference and it would be hard to judge which game it is.

To make things clear: The FM3 photomode load a modell with some higher details. So while gameplay it looks more like GT5 on the right side.

What do you guys think?

 

[Luminis]

In my opinion, it's mostly FM3's lighting engine that makes a difference there... And that one, I think, is noticible...

Also, that R34 looks like a Standard car.

 

[jabofu]

In my opinion, it's mostly FM3's lighting engine that makes a difference there... And that one, I think, is noticible...

Also, that R34 looks like a Standard car.

It is the premium. It has shocked me. The GT5 pictures where 1080p and the FM3 720p. I think that it is one of the bad premiums, because others are looking better. But i have no idea why the R34 is so bad looking.

Edit: It is the premium, if you dont believe it, just try yourself.

 

[Luminis]

Okay... Seems like that really is one of the worse premiums, I really thought it was standard

 

[ItsHim]

In all honesty, FM2 provided some of the best online experiences I ever had. If I compare what the PS3 with GT5 has on offer in that department, I feel like tele-ported back to the 90s.

But with the highly competitive nature of gameplay in FM(2), at one point I simply dropped out and called it a day. And I got a bit tired of the tuning to be honest, because it went from real life-ish setups to glitching the engine. There were so very few real drivers cars out there, and the tuners had reached such a high level, that no ambitious medicore player could compete with them.

I don't think that much has changed with FM3, and I don't think that much can change with FM4. I'm aware that people like me might have ruined the gameplay experience for others who could put in an hour or two every other day. But that partly was the fault of the over complicated, obsessive tuning possibilities which in the end were too complex for the game engine itself and led to quite some "glitch" setups no sane automotive person would come up with.

I won't touch FM again, because I know the stock and upgraded cars are deliberately rubbish setup to give tuners the space they need to work and have the community thing going on. I know at what level I was playing FM, and at what level it can be played, and that I simply don't have the time anymore to compete.

With GT5 on the other hand, it's a calm and soothing pace for a petrol head to be. Offline is good enough for me, I hope there will be an expert challenge every now and than, my bargain G25 is supported, and I can enjoy as many stock cars as I like without the knowledge they are rubbish as they came from the dealership. The seasonals pay huge loads of cash, I don't have to rip through folks online with the latest LB car to "make a living".

So it's GT for me every day, and if I feel like needing a change I play games like Shift - it offers gameplay both FM and GT won't have.

 

[Diatribe777]

Woah, that r34 was a surprise.

Anyway, GT5 still graphically impresses me. I actually pulled over and watched a sunset at Nurburgring the other night, and felt like that double rainbow guy for a sec

 

[Bogie 19th]

In those shots, FM3 does look better. However, that is not normal. I think they usually look better in GT5.

 

[JDMKING13]

Woah, that r34 was a surprise.

Anyway, GT5 still graphically impresses me. I actually pulled over and watched a sunset at Nurburgring the other night, and felt like that double rainbow guy for a sec

The night and day transition are the best. It brings GT5 to another level, I really wish FM4 had night to day transition but I will be happy to see some night driving. 👍

 

[Hotspitta]

In those shots, FM3 does look better. However, that is not normal. I think they usually look better in GT5.

True GT5 can look stunning. And in les than 3 months FM4 will drop and will likely equel Gt in graphics and we will see some more of these photomode wars.. lolz:tup:

 

[zr1chris]

GT5 seems to have 1 MAJOR flaw with the graphics. They can't seem to make a circle.

 

[t.o.]

GT5 seems to have 1 MAJOR flaw with the graphics. They can't seem to make a circle.

It seems they make sacrifices at times for curves for something else. There's a very disturbing trend where the white lines on roads don't seem to be smooth curves. Don't know what it is or is it's just my eyes but I can see the lines losing the smooth curve and having a slight "connect the dot" straight line to them. It really stands out to me when racing in the game and is disturbing. Just a constant reminder you're playing a game so don't even think about getting into any immersion factor here.

 

[SuperShouden]

GT5 seems to have 1 MAJOR flaw with the graphics. They can't seem to make a circle.

If you look REAL close at the cars in Forza you'll notice that, when they're not in photomode, Forza can't make a circle, either. Circles are HARD to produce graphically.

I have noticed a couple other flaws with Forza in a past few days: I was racing on Silverstone and the sounds as I passed under stuff and as I passed the stands on the front straight were WAY off. It sounded like my car was trying to tear itself apart.

On one of the tracks I noticed glitchy shadows of gondolas, too.

Also, I'm sorry, but when comparing AI, GT5 wins. If you don't believe...lap cars in both games. In FM3 the robotic AI just holds their line, completely oblivious to you. (BTW, I had a MC12 sideswipe me off the start line the other day. And I don't mean, he was irritated at me and side swiped me. I was just in his pre-programmed path.) GT5, you get ready to lap someone, and they'll move off the line as they should. Makes it WAY easier to lap people.


FM3 is a great game, and I'm loving it, but, it's far from perfect. GT5 isn't perfect either. But, just remember, there wouldn't be an FM3 without GT1. And the proof of that is in tracks like New York and Almafi Coast, and in some of the car selection.

I mean, we all know that T10 has played GT5 and PD has played FM3 and they both learn stuff from each other. If you went around T10's HQ and asked which game was better, I'm sured you'd get some mixed opinions, but everyone would have respect for GT and the same goes with PD. Heck, even Kaz said that there was some T10 was doing some interesting and unique things.


Some say that the he gave birth to the FM4 version through mitosis. Others say that the FM4 version and GT5 version have daily competitions to see who's better. All we know is, he's called the Stig.

 

[t.o.]

If you look REAL close at the cars in Forza you'll notice that, when they're not in photomode, Forza can't make a circle, either. Circles are HARD to produce graphically.

I have noticed a couple other flaws with Forza in a past few days: I was racing on Silverstone and the sounds as I passed under stuff and as I passed the stands on the front straight were WAY off. It sounded like my car was trying to tear itself apart.

On one of the tracks I noticed glitchy shadows of gondolas, too.

Also, I'm sorry, but when comparing AI, GT5 wins. If you don't believe...lap cars in both games. In FM3 the robotic AI just holds their line, completely oblivious to you. (BTW, I had a MC12 sideswipe me off the start line the other day. And I don't mean, he was irritated at me and side swiped me. I was just in his pre-programmed path.) GT5, you get ready to lap someone, and they'll move off the line as they should. Makes it WAY easier to lap people.


FM3 is a great game, and I'm loving it, but, it's far from perfect. GT5 isn't perfect either. But, just remember, there wouldn't be an FM3 without GT1. And the proof of that is in tracks like New York and Almafi Coast, and in some of the car selection.

I mean, we all know that T10 has played GT5 and PD has played FM3 and they both learn stuff from each other. If you went around T10's HQ and asked which game was better, I'm sured you'd get some mixed opinions, but everyone would have respect for GT and the same goes with PD. Heck, even Kaz said that there was some T10 was doing some interesting and unique things.


Some say that the he gave birth to the FM4 version through mitosis. Others say that the FM4 version and GT5 version have daily competitions to see who's better. All we know is, he's called the Stig.

You sure you're not playing an illegal download of a beta? I wonder sometimes because what you type at times (being most of the time) is outlandish. It's like you're wishing for FM3 to be a certain way and if you keep saying it enough it'll come true.

For instance you're broad description of the AI. The thing is different AI drivers have different personalities on the track. So to give "the AI" a broad stroke like that is completely false. At least in the legally purchased copy that I have.

 

[Spagetti69]

Talking about circles.

Top gear track aeroplane has hexagon engines.

Just saying.

 

[Da-Bomber]

If you look REAL close at the cars in Forza you'll notice that, when they're not in photomode, Forza can't make a circle, either. Circles are HARD to produce graphically.

I have noticed a couple other flaws with Forza in a past few days: I was racing on Silverstone and the sounds as I passed under stuff and as I passed the stands on the front straight were WAY off. It sounded like my car was trying to tear itself apart.

On one of the tracks I noticed glitchy shadows of gondolas, too.

Also, I'm sorry, but when comparing AI, GT5 wins. If you don't believe...lap cars in both games. In FM3 the robotic AI just holds their line, completely oblivious to you. (BTW, I had a MC12 sideswipe me off the start line the other day. And I don't mean, he was irritated at me and side swiped me. I was just in his pre-programmed path.) GT5, you get ready to lap someone, and they'll move off the line as they should. Makes it WAY easier to lap people.


FM3 is a great game, and I'm loving it, but, it's far from perfect. GT5 isn't perfect either. But, just remember, there wouldn't be an FM3 without GT1. And the proof of that is in tracks like New York and Almafi Coast, and in some of the car selection.

I mean, we all know that T10 has played GT5 and PD has played FM3 and they both learn stuff from each other. If you went around T10's HQ and asked which game was better, I'm sured you'd get some mixed opinions, but everyone would have respect for GT and the same goes with PD. Heck, even Kaz said that there was some T10 was doing some interesting and unique things.


Some say that the he gave birth to the FM4 version through mitosis. Others say that the FM4 version and GT5 version have daily competitions to see who's better. All we know is, he's called the Stig.

I don't know about you but Forza's AI takes a huge 🤬 on Gt5's AI. Why such a bias towards Gt that you have to make horrible picks about most comparisons you bring up?

 

[zr1chris]

I don't know about you but Forza's AI takes a huge 🤬 on Gt5's AI. Why such a bias towards Gt that you have to lie about everything?

This pretty much sums up what my response would be. 👍

 

[ICEYOUCOLD]

Forza 4 will have better graphics than GT5, Forza 4's cars will be pushing about 1 million polygons and GT5's cars only push 500,000.

When GT6 comes out it take back the crown as best racing sim.

 

[Da-Bomber]

Forza 4 will have better graphics than GT5, Forza 4's cars will be pushing about 1 million polygons and GT5's cars only push 500,000.

When GT6 comes out it take back the crown as best racing sim.

Actually it's 850,000.(says on their sight.) Lets wait for the game to be released before we make graphical comparisons as forza doesn't even have shadows working on the spoiler of the STI.

 

[Terronium-12]

Also, I'm sorry, but when comparing AI, GT5 wins. If you don't believe...lap cars in both games. In FM3 the robotic AI just holds their line, completely oblivious to you. (BTW, I had a MC12 sideswipe me off the start line the other day. And I don't mean, he was irritated at me and side swiped me. I was just in his pre-programmed path.) GT5, you get ready to lap someone, and they'll move off the line as they should. Makes it WAY easier to lap people.

The AI in Forza has personality, end of story.

FM3 is a great game, and I'm loving it, but, it's far from perfect. GT5 isn't perfect either. But, just remember, there wouldn't be an FM3 without GT1. And the proof of that is in tracks like New York and Almafi Coast, and in some of the car selection.

Single-handedly the most heinous and obtuse thing you've ever written. Really, some of the car selection? Unless Forza is copying the likes of the GT by Citroen, the X1, or the Nike ONE 2022...T10 has as much need for the car roster in their games as GT. As for your far-fetched rationale of there not being an FM without GT, there wouldn't be a GT without NFS, and there wouldn't be an NFS without Test Drive. The list just goes on and on.

I mean, we all know that T10 has played GT5 and PD has played FM3 and they both learn stuff from each other. If you went around T10's HQ and asked which game was better, I'm sured you'd get some mixed opinions, but everyone would have respect for GT and the same goes with PD. Heck, even Kaz said that there was some T10 was doing some interesting and unique things.

PD learns stuff from other racing games? Have you played GT5 before?

 

[ICEYOU]

Actually it's 850,000.(says on their sight.) Lets wait for the game to be released before we make graphical comparisons as forza doesn't even have shadows working on the spoiler of the STI.

I really REALLY love GT5, but you gotta admit that Forza 4 graphically looks alot better than GT5.

 

[Da-Bomber]

I really REALLY love GT5, but you gotta admit that Forza 4 graphically looks alot better than GT5.

IDK about that we need way more Direct feed game play of the outside cam.

 

[ICEYOU]

IDK about that we need way more Direct feed game play of the outside cam.

If only GT was more like Forza in ways...

 

[boxox]

Circles are HARD to produce graphically.

Hurm, I don't know how a conversation about polycount manages to roll along without a working knowledge of what a triangle is, but wow, consider me impressed.

 

[jabofu]

Forza 4 will have better graphics than GT5, Forza 4's cars will be pushing about 1 million polygons and GT5's cars only push 500,000.

When GT6 comes out it take back the crown as best racing sim.

I cant see GT6 or FM5 happening at the current console generation. Both GT5 and FM4 are the peak of what is possible. Sure there will always things to optimize, but we only get a really big jump ahead with more power!

The PS3 will be longer around than the xbox 360 and my fear is, that GT6 will come for the next playstation or for the ps3. That means it eather will release far in the future or will be blasted away by FM5 next gen graphics.

The thing is that neither FM3+4 or GT5 is the clear winner of this competition, but FM3 is delivering, while GT5 is failing in to many areas.

Driving in GT5 is really excelent, there is no point of argueing there. But in nearly every other corner it has to bow down for Forza.

Both games come with some high detail in carmodels and tracks. We can really be happy that we dont get colourless and gray graphics like on many pc simulations.

No Porsche in GT is also inacceptable, because a game that wants to represent car history, where Porsche is missing, doesnt feel right.

 

[Da-Bomber]

I'm really hoping PD can release GT6 right before PS4 so they can deliver what they really intended to give us.

 

[t.o.]

The thing is that neither FM3+4 or GT5 is the clear winner of this competition, but FM3 is delivering, while GT5 is failing in to many areas.

Driving in GT5 is really excelent, there is no point of argueing there. But in nearly every other corner it has to bow down for Forza.

Well let's get FM4 in our hands first before we decide if it's a "loser" , "winner" or just "a tie".

As far as driving in GT5 being "excellent" some people beg to differ. That's no forgone conclusion either.

Just saying. Everything else you write is believable.