FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[SuperShouden]

You sure you're not playing an illegal download of a beta? I wonder sometimes because what you type at times (being most of the time) is outlandish. It's like you're wishing for FM3 to be a certain way and if you keep saying it enough it'll come true.

For instance you're broad description of the AI. The thing is different AI drivers have different personalities on the track. So to give "the AI" a broad stroke like that is completely false. At least in the legally purchased copy that I have.

I don't know about you but Forza's AI takes a huge 🤬 on Gt5's AI. Why such a bias towards Gt that you have to make horrible picks about most comparisons you bring up?

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here. I've played both games and the AI in Forza is similar to GT4's AI. The only time they're off the line is when they're battling for position or running off into the wall like an idiot. I have NEVER seen the AI in Forza 3 move off the line to let me, the faster vehicle by.

In GT5, however, even in the hairpins of Tsukuba, the AI will take a wide line to let me by. But it's not just that. Forza's AI might jossile for position, but unless they slam themselves into a wall, usually Rossi and Evans are almost always 2nd and 3rd. In GT5....I've raced series where a different driver finished in 2nd every time. In GT5, they don't just jossile, they fight. I've had to swerve to avoid spinning cars, slow for clouds of smoke so I didn't get hit....Forza's AI....is boring. They also SUCK at merging. In GT5, the AI will pause until the road is clear before re-entering the track, whereas with Forza....I've seen the Forza AI merge into the track right in front of someone and subsequently got rear-ended. I've SEEN GT5 AI take different lines through corners. I've not seen that in Forza.

Granted robotic AI can be easier to pass in the straights, but they're a pain to pass in the corners.


EDIT: Also...Porsche again? Really? Is it REALLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYY the end of the world if Porsche is missing? All...what...7 models? I mean they've been around for longer, but you've got the 995, the whiney Carrera GT, the Boxster, Panamara, Cheyenne, the 911 and a couple others. I mean, I respect Porsche. They're great cars, and Porsche gave us Volkswagen, but....I don't see why one missing car maker can break a game. Seriously. That's like saying Forza doesn't have Isuzu, Diahatsu or Jensen, it must be crap. Or, I won't buy FM4 unless it has the Mazda 787B. And there's been no official word that FM4 has Porsche. We know it's got RUF, but haven't heard about Porsche either way.

Let's argue about something other than the car lists, please. I mean...1000 vs 500...yeah....also, speaking of cars...you guys do know those 850,000 polygons only applies to the photomode cars, right?

 

[jabofu]

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here. I've played both games and the AI in Forza is similar to GT4's AI. The only time they're off the line is when they're battling for position or running off into the wall like an idiot. I have NEVER seen the AI in Forza 3 move off the line to let me, the faster vehicle by.

In GT5, however, even in the hairpins of Tsukuba, the AI will take a wide line to let me by. But it's not just that. Forza's AI might jossile for position, but unless they slam themselves into a wall, usually Rossi and Evans are almost always 2nd and 3rd. In GT5....I've raced series where a different driver finished in 2nd every time. In GT5, they don't just jossile, they fight. I've had to swerve to avoid spinning cars, slow for clouds of smoke so I didn't get hit....Forza's AI....is boring. They also SUCK at merging. In GT5, the AI will pause until the road is clear before re-entering the track, whereas with Forza....I've seen the Forza AI merge into the track right in front of someone and subsequently got rear-ended. I've SEEN GT5 AI take different lines through corners. I've not seen that in Forza.

Granted robotic AI can be easier to pass in the straights, but they're a pain to pass in the corners.


EDIT: Also...Porsche again? Really? Is it REALLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYY the end of the world if Porsche is missing? All...what...7 models? I mean they've been around for longer, but you've got the 995, the whiney Carrera GT, the Boxster, Panamara, Cheyenne, the 911 and a couple others. I mean, I respect Porsche. They're great cars, and Porsche gave us Volkswagen, but....I don't see why one missing car maker can break a game. Seriously. That's like saying Forza doesn't have Isuzu, Diahatsu or Jensen, it must be crap. Or, I won't buy FM4 unless it has the Mazda 787B. And there's been no official word that FM4 has Porsche. We know it's got RUF, but haven't heard about Porsche either way.

Let's argue about something other than the car lists, please. I mean...1000 vs 500...yeah....also, speaking of cars...you guys do know those 850,000 polygons only applies to the photomode cars, right?

Did you ever watch real races? Be it Formula 1, WTCC or other. All cars keep trying to stay on the racing line. Even if a slower car is in front, it wont jump out of the way directly and doesnt have to. If you watched the F1 montreal race this year, just look how Schumacher raced in the end and you understand.

In reality the fastest cars cant just push around the others and doesnt have the primary right to be let through that easy. To stay on the line is every racers right and if somebody is faster, he will be let by on the straights or next corner.

The FM-k.i. is quite impressive and alive if you play fair. If you start smashing them or cutting in, they react angry sometimes.

Real racers have the same problem to deal with, when somebody is slower in front. If the slower car isnt too slow, it doesnt have to go away from the line, thats called competitive driving.

A K.I. that jumps away if it sees you isnt that better...

And to the Porsche thing. All well known makes are important. Can you imagine GT or Forza without BMW, Dodge, Ferarri or so?

 

[Da-Bomber]

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here. I've played both games and the AI in Forza is similar to GT4's AI. The only time they're off the line is when they're battling for position or running off into the wall like an idiot. I have NEVER seen the AI in Forza 3 move off the line to let me, the faster vehicle by.

In GT5, however, even in the hairpins of Tsukuba, the AI will take a wide line to let me by. But it's not just that. Forza's AI might jossile for position, but unless they slam themselves into a wall, usually Rossi and Evans are almost always 2nd and 3rd. In GT5....I've raced series where a different driver finished in 2nd every time. In GT5, they don't just jossile, they fight. I've had to swerve to avoid spinning cars, slow for clouds of smoke so I didn't get hit....Forza's AI....is boring. They also SUCK at merging. In GT5, the AI will pause until the road is clear before re-entering the track, whereas with Forza....I've seen the Forza AI merge into the track right in front of someone and subsequently got rear-ended. I've SEEN GT5 AI take different lines through corners. I've not seen that in Forza.

Granted robotic AI can be easier to pass in the straights, but they're a pain to pass in the corners.


EDIT: Also...Porsche again? Really? Is it REALLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYY the end of the world if Porsche is missing? All...what...7 models? I mean they've been around for longer, but you've got the 995, the whiney Carrera GT, the Boxster, Panamara, Cheyenne, the 911 and a couple others. I mean, I respect Porsche. They're great cars, and Porsche gave us Volkswagen, but....I don't see why one missing car maker can break a game. Seriously. That's like saying Forza doesn't have Isuzu, Diahatsu or Jensen, it must be crap. Or, I won't buy FM4 unless it has the Mazda 787B. And there's been no official word that FM4 has Porsche. We know it's got RUF, but haven't heard about Porsche either way.

Let's argue about something other than the car lists, please. I mean...1000 vs 500...yeah....also, speaking of cars...you guys do know those 850,000 polygons only applies to the photomode cars, right?

As if anyone thought that there would be 850,000 polys in-game. Porsche is very important to racing and the fact that Forza has it and GT doesn't is another shame PD have to live with. I still don't buy this Forza AI being worse that GT when YOU are the only one I hear from saying this. The AI in GT are immune to you messing them up as they rarely pay for their actions. They also hardly notice you're their if at all. Why do you keep trying to force something on everyone when you know it's utter 🤬. Oh and the reason there's a lot of Forza bias is because we are in a Forza forum, just in case you were a little lost.

 

[Daverytimes]

Did you ever watch real races? Be it Formula 1, WTCC or other. All cars keep trying to stay on the racing line. Even if a slower car is in front, it wont jump out of the way directly and doesnt have to. If you watched the F1 montreal race this year, just look how Schumacher raced in the end and you understand.

In reality the fastest cars cant just push around the others and doesnt have the primary right to be let through that easy. To stay on the line is every racers right and if somebody is faster, he will be let by on the straights or next corner.

The FM-k.i. is quite impressive and alive if you play fair. If you start smashing them or cutting in, they react angry sometimes.

Real racers have the same problem to deal with, when somebody is slower in front. If the slower car isnt too slow, it doesnt have to go away from the line, thats called competitive driving.

A K.I. that jumps away if it sees you isnt that better...

And to the Porsche thing. All well known makes are important. Can you imagine GT or Forza without BMW, Dodge, Ferarri or so?

Your post elaborated what he said, both A.I's are not good and if you want to have any bit of fun with them you will have to drive cleanly and not ram them off. Also you said that "Racers dont move away from the line" and that's true but many of the people in here would not get it in through their thick skulls, when an A.I holds their line they call them "A.I train" when the A.I move away from their line they call them "soft" or "stupid". Their is no way you can please people, at least not with A.I coding.

 

[zr1chris]

I think proper A.I. Should hold their line except for when your beside or in front of them and your in their line before them. Whoever gets to a particular spot on the track first should be intitled to that spot.

 

[HadOne2Many]

Here's a quick observation I made about the AI in Forza, take it with a grain of salt. For the past month my racing rig has been in pieces while I waited on a contracter to finish my new floors, during this time to get my racing fix I moved my Playseat in front of the big screen and exclusively played GT5 since the PS3 was already hooked up there.

Fast forward to this past weekend, the floors are done and I'm back to racing on Forza. After playing GT5 I'm constantly afraid to make a move on the AI because I'm so used to them pushing me off the road through the turns unless I cut on the inside and bounce off of them. Surprisingly in Forza when I do make a move the AI I'm driving next to will usually hold either the outside or inside line through the turn. As long as I stay on my line I can race side by side all the way around the track if I need to. Granted there are a few agressive AI drivers like Rossi and they won't hesitate to put me into the dirt (forcing me to either drive dirty or be more patient) but these guys are the exception, not the rule.

Honestly I feel a lot of the people who are complaining about the AI don't understand racing lines at all. There's 3 lines around the track (outside, inside and the optimal line). You can't try and force a pass and expect the AI to slam on the brakes and let you get back on the optimal line right away. You'll need to hold either the outside or inside line until you are clear.

 

[jasjeet]

Forza 4 will have better graphics than GT5, Forza 4's cars will be pushing about 1 million polygons and GT5's cars only push 500,000.

When GT6 comes out it take back the crown as best racing sim.

So graphics makes a sim

 

[JuiceMcGoose]

I have both games, including the Forza Ulitmate Edition with all the DLC. I use the same wheel for both...Fanatec GT2. For me, once I get past career mode it is all about leaderboards. Driving means racing and there needs to be some sort of record to go by to know who is fastest. Without that you are racing against your best time, if you can find it. GT5 dropped the ball here. Kaz promised leaderboards when the game came out but no deal yet.

Forza even has the web page where you can check up on how your times are holding up from any computer. It also has your total lap times in different categories if you want to race, say, all the ovals and get your total time compared to others.

Forza isn't perfect. I think Forza 3's biggest fault is the cars and parts are too expensive. If you wanted to buy all the cars it would take you more than 40 hours a week for a year of racing to do it. Then it usually cost a few times the original price of the car to make it competitive on leaderboards. If you are expected to sell custom paint jobs to make money, I didn't buy the game to sell stuff, I bought it to race.

Personally, I think Forza 3 has more realistic driving dynamics than GT5.

I also think Dirt3 is a better game than GT5. Better driving dynamics, leaderboards and the load times are a fraction of the time of GT5. I have both the Xbox and PC versions of Dirt3 and PC load times are about 4 or 5 seconds for each track. If you get the PC version through Steam they make it easy to deal with GFWL.

 

[t.o.]

It's funny reading about AI in this thread. Reading how FM3's AI and GT5's AI react, one reminds me of racing AI while the other reminds me of "track day" AI. And reading a specific person's post also describes that's what he's looking for and I bet that person didn't even know they were saying it. Every race I've seen I don't ever recall a competitor just "giving it up" cause a dude is faster than him. If that person is being lapped then a blue flag condition might be in effect but other than that why is the other guy there if he's just moving over and giving up the guts.

 

[Da-Bomber]

It's funny reading about AI in this thread. Reading how FM3's AI and GT5's AI react, one reminds me of racing AI while the other reminds me of "track day" AI. And reading a specific person's post also describes that's what he's looking for and I bet that person didn't even know they were saying it. Every race I've seen I don't ever recall a competitor just "giving it up" cause a dude is faster than him. If that person is being lapped then a blue flag condition might be in effect but other than that why is the other guy there if he's just moving over and giving up the guts.

Exactly.

 

[Spagetti69]

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here.

This is a Forza thread you know.

 

[t.o.]

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here.

Quite simple, some of us have NO loyalty to a game. One's man's wife is this man's side chick. Some of us are in this forum for varying reasons but we're all members of this site for a particular reason. An interest in GT. Some of us have completely given up on it while others still find enjoyment with it but WE ALL have tried it and played it. Now we're in this forum because this game seems to be shaping up great. Some of us have played FM3 and some of us believe it was great, some not so. But it's successor is looking like a winner. It seems to be hitting the right strides and we're all anticipating it's release thus why we're here in the "FORZA" section of this site. But I don't think anyone here is married to any game. Let me rephrase it, they rest of us , Shouden, aren't married to any game.

 

[infamousDee]

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here.

Tell me about it. I gave up taking the vast majority of what anyone has to say in this section seriously some time ago.

 

[Luminis]

Tell me about it. I gave up taking the vast majority of what anyone has to say in this section seriously some time ago.

Well, if it is this bad, then... What are you guys doing here? Aside from complaining about the 'bad' Forza guys, that is.

 

[t.o.]

Someone please pick a number between 1 and 20 please. Anyone. I'll use the first post.

 

[Spagetti69]

2

 

[Da-Bomber]

Tell me about it. I gave up taking the vast majority of what anyone has to say in this section seriously some time ago.

Why is that?

 

[Luminis]

Someone please pick a number between 1 and 20 please. Anyone. I'll use the first post.

Uri Geller, is that you?

 

[t.o.]

2

thanks, now could you give me a number between 1 and 7?

Uri Geller, is that you?

lol not quite. I'm throwing a random monkey wrench in an upcoming FM3 race I got going Wednesday.

 

[infamousDee]

Well, if it is this bad, then... What are you guys doing here? Aside from complaining about the 'bad' Forza guys, that is.

Believe me, if it wasn't for FM4, I wouldn't be here. The amount of hypocrisy and bias coming from some members regarding FM3 beggars belief.

 

[Luminis]

Believe me, if it wasn't for FM4, I wouldn't be here. The amount of hypocrisy and bias coming from some members regarding FM3 beggars belief.

Good thing that the GT5 section is different, right?

 

[t.o.]

Believe me, if it wasn't for FM4, I wouldn't be here. The amount of hypocrisy and bias coming from some members regarding FM3 beggars belief.

To be honest I've read more hypocrisy and bias about GT5 in this Forza forum than I have Forza stuff. Pound for pound that is.

 

[Spagetti69]

2

 

[Bogie 19th]

GT5 seems to have 1 MAJOR flaw with the graphics. They can't seem to make a circle.

Agreed. But jaggies have been consistently an issue, and I think circles fall into that category with AA.

If you look REAL close at the cars in Forza you'll notice that, when they're not in photomode, Forza can't make a circle, either. Circles are HARD to produce graphically.

That isn't the comment though. In photomode, FM3 is making better circles.

I have noticed a couple other flaws with Forza in a past few days: I was racing on Silverstone and the sounds as I passed under stuff and as I passed the stands on the front straight were WAY off. It sounded like my car was trying to tear itself apart.

Might want to get your copy of FM3 looked at, fix your home theater system, or possibly replace your Xbox 360.

Also, I'm sorry, but when comparing AI, GT5 wins. If you don't believe...lap cars in both games. In FM3 the robotic AI just holds their line, completely oblivious to you.

Oddly enough, when FM3 came out, the people were praising how the AI would back off when needed, or be overly aggressive and take you off the track, or even drafts and learns your racing style and competes against you accordingly. Completely the opposite experience here than what you had.

GT5, you get ready to lap someone, and they'll move off the line as they should. Makes it WAY easier to lap people.

That happens in FM3 as well.

FM3 is a great game, and I'm loving it, but, it's far from perfect. GT5 isn't perfect either. But, just remember, there wouldn't be an FM3 without GT1. And the proof of that is in tracks like New York and Almafi Coast, and in some of the car selection.

Yup, and there wouldn't be a GT1 if there wasn't a Pole Position.

Actually it's 850,000.(says on their sight.) Lets wait for the game to be released before we make graphical comparisons as forza doesn't even have shadows working on the spoiler of the STI.

Weird. They announced over 1 million at E3:

Graphics (Polygon count size does matter!): For starters, Turn 10's re-rendered every single vehicle, ripping the graphics engine down and building it back up. And the results are simply staggering. Polygons per car are up from Forza 3's 400,000 to over one million polygons per car in Forza 4. Turn 10's added real-light changes like blooming and lens flares help make the cars look like they're really in the environment. Forza 4 is achieving in real-time at 60 frames per second what was once something Pixar needed weeks to render. Just take a look through the gorgeous gameplay shots in the gallery to the left to see what I mean. It's beautiful.

But then on the website it says:

THE BEST LOOKING FORZA YET
The Xbox 360 meets its graphical apex with Forza Motorsport 4. Experience an unprecedented level of detail with 800,000 polygon cars and some of the most beautiful environments ever seen… all waiting to be driven, painted, or photographed to your heart’s content. Unified lighting means dramatically improved cars and tracks and alternate time of day lets you experience previous Forza tracks in a completely new way.

I wonder if ingame is 800k and Autovista is 1 million?

I'll say it again: for a GT site, there sure are a lot of Forza bias people in here.

Both biases are present equally here. However, this IS the Forza section, where most of us that enjoy racing both GT and Forza will critique and praise both.

I've played both games and the AI in Forza is similar to GT4's AI. The only time they're off the line is when they're battling for position or running off into the wall like an idiot. I have NEVER seen the AI in Forza 3 move off the line to let me, the faster vehicle by.

In GT5, however, even in the hairpins of Tsukuba, the AI will take a wide line to let me by. But it's not just that. Forza's AI might jossile for position, but unless they slam themselves into a wall, usually Rossi and Evans are almost always 2nd and 3rd. In GT5....I've raced series where a different driver finished in 2nd every time. In GT5, they don't just jossile, they fight. I've had to swerve to avoid spinning cars, slow for clouds of smoke so I didn't get hit....Forza's AI....is boring. They also SUCK at merging. In GT5, the AI will pause until the road is clear before re-entering the track, whereas with Forza....I've seen the Forza AI merge into the track right in front of someone and subsequently got rear-ended. I've SEEN GT5 AI take different lines through corners. I've not seen that in Forza.

Again, running a different version of Forza from the rest of us. If you are going to make claims, you are supposed to back them up with proof.

Believe me

Too late, we don't

Good thing that the GT5 section is different, right?

👍

 

[SuperShouden]

Quite simple, some of us have NO loyalty to a game. One's man's wife is this man's side chick. Some of us are in this forum for varying reasons but we're all members of this site for a particular reason. An interest in GT. Some of us have completely given up on it while others still find enjoyment with it but WE ALL have tried it and played it. Now we're in this forum because this game seems to be shaping up great. Some of us have played FM3 and some of us believe it was great, some not so. But it's successor is looking like a winner. It seems to be hitting the right strides and we're all anticipating it's release thus why we're here in the "FORZA" section of this site. But I don't think anyone here is married to any game. Let me rephrase it, they rest of us , Shouden, aren't married to any game.

But, if you're a Forza "representative" here in the largest GT fansite in the world, unless you are "gathering data on how to improve Forza" wouldn't you just be a troll? I mean, sure it's the Forza section of the site, but the site IS the largest GT fansite in the world. So...you're either a fan of both, a peaceful representative or a troll.

And to that note, I think this particular thread should be erased 'cause all it's gonna do is attracted trolls.

 

[Spagetti69]

But, if you're a Forza "representative" here in the largest GT fansite in the world, unless you are "gathering data on how to improve Forza" wouldn't you just be a troll?

I'm getting a bit fed up of your idiotic comments to be honest.

You are now trying to suggest people who are active in this forum are trolls.

Why don't you ask Jordan why he puts up with us.
It is not down to you who frequents this forum.

When Jordan shuts down the Forza section then fair enough.

Just shut it.

 

[Luminis]

And to that note, I think this particular thread should be erased 'cause all it's gonna do is attracted trolls.

So you're a troll if you're on GTP and don't like GT? See, I came here in anticipation of GT5 and stayed because of the people.

I make sure to not stray into the GT5 section,a s I've got nothing to do with the game anymore. How does that make me a troll?

 

[HadOne2Many]

But, if you're a Forza "representative" here in the largest GT fansite in the world, unless you are "gathering data on how to improve Forza" wouldn't you just be a troll? I mean, sure it's the Forza section of the site, but the site IS the largest GT fansite in the world. So...you're either a fan of both, a peaceful representative or a troll.

And to that note, I think this particular thread should be erased 'cause all it's gonna do is attracted trolls.

I can't speak for t.o. or anyone else posting here...but racing has been my favorite genre of gaming since the moment I sat down behind the wheel of Daytona USA at my local arcade when I was a pimply faced teen ager. From that moment I was hooked and I have been in search of the best racing experience I could get outside of being in a real car on a real track. A few years later I had a chance to play Ferrari F355 Challenge on one of the triple screen cabinets that were produced. What an awesome experience. Could such an experience ever be reproduced on a home console? At the time I never though I 'd see the day. Fast forward to the release of the Logitech Digital Force Pro wheel designed for Gran Turismo. Wow, we're getting close to the gaming experience I have sought after for so many years now! A truly awesome game and wheel combination which remained my go to racing game up until May of 2007 when I got FM2. I played FM2 until 2009 when I got FM3 along with a Fanatec Wheel. Earlier this year I got a PS3 and GT5 and I was prepared yet again to switch games. The problem was GT5 was a step backward for me. I do play and enjoy both, but FM3 gets much more of my time than GT5. If this makes me a troll, then so be it.

 

[zr1chris]

And to that note, I think this particular thread should be erased 'cause all it's gonna do is attracted trolls.

Such as yourself??

 

[Bogie 19th]

Let's not let one guy ruin a thread that was going perfectly find until the "troll" comment was introduced. The thread had been great until now.