FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[jabofu]

They will not. If they opt for physical media - and they will, 100% DD is at least one generation away - they will go BluRay.

Besides, Sony is not the only company in BluRay Disc Association - there are 9 companies which are founders and 19 which are users.

Besides, LG made a big move in December 2010, allowing companies to license BluRay patents without paying royalties. Notice LG was the single most important company that raised BR format, and that was one of the reasons of their recent court dispute with Sony which lead to short cease of PS3 sales and lasted for month overhere in Europe.

As an user, I would be very disappointed if MS do not opt for BR in the NextBox.

All movies are on Blu Rays and it is the most likely option for MS. They dont have to establish a medium and Blu Ray drives become dirty cheap by then. They only need more space for their games, so it will be the cheapest and easiest way.

 

[Scaff]

One, the next Xbox won't be using Blu-ray. Microsoft will have none of that foolishness; if they have to, they'll resurrect HD-DVD. Two, The models can still span across 2 (or if need be, 3) discs. It depends how the DVD is formatted.

It'll likely require a mandatory install anyway.

Given that MS have in the past paid royalty fees to parts of the Sony network (for music and movie licenses) I think the precedent has already been set.

Resurrecting the HD-DVD format, with all the associated start-up costs for tooling and manufacture would far outweigh paying royalties to the BDA (who are much more than Sony).

You also seem to be ignoring the small detail that it would make it stupidly expensive for software houses and distributors, who would be put off by what would be the very expensive unit price of an optical medium that exists just for the XBox.

HD-DVD is a highly unlikley option for the next X-Box, unless that is MS really want to throw money away and drive away third party developers and distributors.


Scaff

 

[Terronium-12]

I stand corrected then.

I still stand by HD-DVD though, or at least a proprietary format based off of it to some degree. If developers are already supporting two, three (yes, I'm counting the Wii) wildly different formats then what's to stop them from doing so again?

I'm not saying Microsoft has to make it a headache-inducing experience but follow Nintendo's route - except maintain the media functionality, considering both the PS and Xbox want to be all-in-one units.

 

[Scaff]

I stand corrected then.

I still stand by HD-DVD though, or at least a proprietary format based off of it to some degree. If developers are already supporting two, three (yes, I'm counting the Wii) wildly different formats then what's to stop them from doing so again?

I'm not saying Microsoft has to make it a headache-inducing experience but follow Nintendo's route - except maintain the media functionality, considering both the PS and Xbox want to be all-in-one units.

The difference is that the two (because the Wii uses DVD - the machine itself is simply not licensed for playback) formats in use are already mass production items, with the economies of scale that provides.

HD-DVD or a proprietary format based off it would need standalone production facilities to be set-up and the unit cost of the disc's would reflect that. You are also assuming that Toshiba would want to allow the HD-DVD license to be used, and given that they are now committed to BR that itself may be an issue.

It would also not make the next Xbox a stand alone unit from a media point of view, because your not going to get studios wanting to go back to two HD formats competing with each other. They wanted the format war over ASAP last time, the last thing they would do is anything to re-ignite it.


HD-DVD offers no advantage to MS as a format at all, and rather a large list of negatives. As such I find its use in future rather unlikely.

Scaff

 

[Hotspitta]

On a side note, you mentioned weight transfer, keep in mind that weight transfer and visible body movement are not the same. You could take the springs out of the Clio above and replace them with metal bars, the roll would not then occur, but the weight transfer would be almost exactly the same (the results of that same weight transfer on the tyres would be very, very different however).

As part of one of my old jobs I 'tracked' a lot of road cars (just about every volume road car in the UK at the time) and have to say that even GT5s visible roll is underdone for some cars, in particular the level of dive you can get under hard braking.

Again, far from a softly sprung road car, and being auto-crossed the speeds are going to be still fairly low, yet the level of dive is clearly greater than we are used to seeing in GT or FM....

...regards

Scaff

This was one off my major gripes with fm3. The lack of visible bodyroll and sway in Replays. In game its pretty decent(chase cam) on most cars except racecars. But due too terrible camera angles and the camera being fixed too the Chassis.

It's there but not properly visible. Here's a video that shows it much better.





..................Nice...

 

[Bogie 19th]

Alright. Bye everyone...I'll try to be around the other parts of the forums, but I'll probably be real quiet.

There is no need for you to leave. You should indeed stay. However, there is no need to attack others or call them trolls for just having a differing opinion.

but the exterior look like GT5 premium models.

If you guys are right I may need to get a bigger HD. I have an old 20gb.

Good god son! Step up. Time for an Xbox 360 S with 250gb of pure love!

They will not. If they opt for physical media - and they will, 100% DD is at least one generation away - they will go BluRay.

Besides, Sony is not the only company in BluRay Disc Association - there are 9 companies which are founders and 19 which are users.

Besides, LG made a big move in December 2010, allowing companies to license BluRay patents without paying royalties. Notice LG was the single most important company that raised BR format, and that was one of the reasons of their recent court dispute with Sony which lead to short cease of PS3 sales and lasted for month overhere in Europe.

As an user, I would be very disappointed if MS do not opt for BR in the NextBox.

I would guess that they will be going with flash type media, which is becoming more popular. Optical disks are dated legacy formats now.

 

[Luminis]

I would guess that they will be going with flash type media, which is becoming more popular. Optical disks are dated legacy formats now.

I thought about that, too, but a 16GB SD Card is still way more expensive than a BluRay Disc, for example.
Then again, the next Xbox is still a bit away, so that might change for the better.

Maybe they could go with SNES-Style cartridges again? Nostalgic and practical (somewhat). You could even take your safegames with you... Very oldskool, no?

 

[Bogie 19th]

I thought about that, too, but a 16GB SD Card is still way more expensive than a BluRay Disc, for example.
Then again, the next Xbox is still a bit away, so that might change for the better.

Maybe they could go with SNES-Style cartridges again? Nostalgic and practical (somewhat). You could even take your safegames with you... Very oldskool, no?

They are getting much better in price though. I picked up a Transcend 32gb SD card about 3 weeks ago from Buy.com for $38. You know those are also marked way up.

Now that they are becoming much more popular, it's possible.

 

[Luminis]

They are getting much better in price though. I picked up a Transcend 32gb SD card about 3 weeks ago from Buy.com for $38. You know those are also marked way up.

Now that they are becoming much more popular, it's possible.

Sure, that aren't the prices a manufacturer would have to pay, but you can also buy three 50GB BluRay discs for like 30 bucks bucks, which are also amrked up...

That's roughly five times the storage space for the same amount of money...

 

[Bogie 19th]

Of course BD is cheaper, as it's a less expensive product to develop. I suspect with more SD cards being made in mass, it will reduce the prices.

We already get up to 8gb SD card games in 3DS. I suspect that since Vita is also going SD, they will probably have 8-16gb cards.

Putting them on the Xbox 3 seems doable.

 

[Luminis]

Yeah, it's doable, of course, and I can see some advantages to it, too. I just expect that it'll also might make games even more expensive to buy...

 

[ItsHim]

Yeah, it's doable, of course, and I can see some advantages to it, too. I just expect that it'll also might make games even more expensive to buy...

Don't forget the retailers. I don't think they'd Be too happy selling tiny plastic sticks. MS needs them very much because they sell their console hardware so better not upset them yet. But the future is download, just look at what Apple did to the music retailers.

 

[t.o.]

Don't forget the retailers. I don't think they'd Be too happy selling tiny plastic sticks. MS needs them very much because they sell their console hardware so better not upset them yet. But the future is download, just look at what Apple did to the music retailers.

At the same time though who's gonna wait for gigs to download? People want to pop something into something and play now.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yeah, it's doable, of course, and I can see some advantages to it, too. I just expect that it'll also might make games even more expensive to buy...

And at the same time, reduce the cost of consoles (it's less expensive to have a flash card reader than a BD player), as well as a reduced cost to warranty (less moving parts, less expensive to fix and replace.

 

[Luminis]

Don't forget the retailers. I don't think they'd Be too happy selling tiny plastic sticks. MS needs them very much because they sell their console hardware so better not upset them yet. But the future is download, just look at what Apple did to the music retailers.

I have a feeling that we're still a decade away from going entirely for digital releases. Boradband internet still isn't available everywhere. Also, what's the difference between selling a small piece of plastic and a disc? Works well with the Nintendo DS.

And at the same time, reduce the cost of consoles (it's less expensive to have a flash card reader than a BD player), as well as a reduced cost to warranty (less moving parts, less expensive to fix and replace.

Yeah, but they're initially still losing money on the console, anyways. Also, I expect that the usual customer is buying enough games that the added premium for a ROM kind of thing will outweight the little amount they safed on the console.

Put, damn, putting a cartridge in my console would SO remind me of some of the greatest video game related experiences I had, totally worth it

 

[Bogie 19th]

Put, damn, putting a cartridge in my console would SO remind me of some of the greatest video game related experiences I had, totally worth it

My personal favorite console experience was my Atari 5200. I liked it more than even my Atari 2600 and Pong.

 

[Mr Fox]

I would rather the NextBox came with a 500Gb ~ 1TB hard drive, MS futher improve the Xbox Live network, and we go the Direct to Drive route.

No more Disks, cartridges, memory cards, required any more , they can save money on not having to produce the disks and all the associated costs that come with them.

 

[Terronium-12]

I would rather the NextBox came with a 500Gb ~ 1TB hard drive, MS futher improve the Xbox Live network, and we go the Direct to Drive route.

No more Disks, cartridges, memory cards, required any more , they can save money on not having to produce the disks and all the associated costs that come with them.

But they would have to spend as much if not more on bandwidth, server costs, and whatever funds required to secure DDL games. As I was writing before but never posted, at this point, DDL games won't be feasible any time soon for a number of reasons.

 

[Luminis]

My personal favorite console experience was my Atari 5200. I liked it more than even my Atari 2600 and Pong.

Yeah, those were the days... For me, though, the SNES and Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals did it. Big time.

But they would have to spend as much if not more on bandwidth, server costs, and whatever funds required to secure DDL games. As I was writing before but never posted, at this point, DDL games won't be feasible any time soon for a number of reasons.

Yup, plus, I tthink that there are quite a few countries that are entirely unsupported by XBL so far, which, along with the problem of broadband internet not being available everywhere, would put a huge dent in that plan.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I would rather the NextBox came with a 500Gb ~ 1TB hard drive, MS futher improve the Xbox Live network, and we go the Direct to Drive route.

No more Disks, cartridges, memory cards, required any more , they can save money on not having to produce the disks and all the associated costs that come with them.

That is what I would like as well.

 

[SuperShouden]

Another advantage of Blu-ray would be...No more multi-disc games. I thank Ms for allowing one to just install the data from both discs on the system so you can use just one disc...but...multi-disc games are soo....PC. Until Forza 3 and Mass Effect 2, I hadn't heard of a Multi-disc game since the original Playstation. Multi-disc games are more expensive to produce because you to make twice as many DVDs.

Blu-ray technology is getting cheaper everyday, and with HVDs on the horizon and if the next Xbox uses Blu-ray, that'd reduce costs even more. Sony's even working to make Blu-ray tech better. They've already increased disc capacity by 8GB (from 25GB to 33GB)

As for MS paying Sony royalties...since when has having to pay royalties to a competitor stopped Microsoft? I mean, they paid EA for the Porsche license, they make Office for Mac...I mean, I think MS has proven that they'll pay pretty much anything to get ahead. I mean, how many times have they paid LOTS of money to have a game arrive on Xbox first?

 

[Mr Fox]

But they would have to spend as much if not more on bandwidth, server costs, and whatever funds required to secure DDL games. As I was writing before but never posted, at this point, DDL games won't be feasible any time soon for a number of reasons.

They should at the very least make a move in that direction, lets face it D2D is ultimately were all of this is going sooner or later, the Nextbox should try to help the transition to that means of acquiring and playing games.

heck 15 ~20 years from now its probably all going to be "cloud Gaming" anyways.

 

[Terronium-12]

They should at the very least make a move in that direction, lets face it D2D is ultimately were all of this is going sooner or later, the Nextbox should try to help the transition to that means of acquiring and playing games.

heck 15 ~20 years from now its probably all going to be "cloud Gaming" anyways.

There are so many disadvantages to digital only titles the positives are practically dwarfed in comparison -- costs, support, revised user rights, etc, etc. As I said...no time soon. Physical media is going to be around for a long time, at best we'll have exactly what there is now - a hybrid system of DDL and physical media. Neither 3 of them can afford to lose customers who don't like digital media.

 

[Bogie 19th]

As for MS paying Sony royalties...since when has having to pay royalties to a competitor stopped Microsoft? I mean, they paid EA for the Porsche license, they make Office for Mac...I mean, I think MS has proven that they'll pay pretty much anything to get ahead. I mean, how many times have they paid LOTS of money to have a game arrive on Xbox first?

MS actually gets royalties for every blu-ray sold because of their VC-1 codecs in Blu-ray (mandated by the Blu-Ray Disc Association).

 

[cuco33]

Is it me or is this discussion going away from the FM vs GT debate and leaning towards the MS vs Sony debate, all with the discussions of optical media, digital downloads, etc.

 

[Bogie 19th]

It has got a bit side tracked, yes cuco33. We need to rectify that.

Forza 4:

GT5:

Real Life:

 

[Da-Bomber]

That their proves which game has the best models then.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yup, real life

 

[boomee]

agreed real life PWNS

 

[Luminis]

Yeah, the gameplay sucks, but damn, the graphics are stunning!

Also, quite funny that FM4 overdoes the clare and reflections while GT5 underdoes them