Didn't FM2 and 3 also have a lot of updates, and didn't they also tend to introduce more problems. Isn't that how the AWD glitch was introduced in FM3?
Didn't GT2 ship with the inability to get 100% since drag racing was dropped last minute? Didn't GT1 ship with botched stats on cars like the Copperhead LM, FTO LM, or Cerbera LM, depending on region, making them far and away the best performers in the game?
...Do you see how relevant that is to this discussion?
I don't know. You can either take a lot of patching as a sign that the game was unfinished, or you can take it as the developers are still listening to the community and trying to make the game better.
Actually, you can take it as both. Why am I forced to pick between them? The developers are listening to the community and trying to make the game better... because it was unfinished / full of errors.
I do agree, that there wasn't a lot of stuff to do in GT5's career. But to me, the careers on both game are kinda even simply because what FM4 makes up in number of events it fails at the variety of tracks. That's why I thought Forza 4 had less real world tracks. FM4 doesn't use them that much. (Also, I only did the Miata endurance once in GT5. I don't fully understand what you were getting at there. Are you trying to say you race the miata on Tsukuba a lot? But there's the endurance and maybe another race there with it? Which pales in comparison to ho many times I've gone around the Alps in FM4...or Sadona in FM3. (both tracks I HATE now.)
Forza uses Road Atlanta and Sebring a lot. Not quite Alps levels of use, no, but it's unsurprising that track features so much considering it was new to the series. It's just like Cape Ring's constant use in GT. And yes, Miatas are at Tsukuba a lot. There was even a seasonal for Miatas held there.
Speaking of tracks, I should have mentioned that the track models in GT are better than FM4, in my opinion.
Some, yes. Some, no.
As for the Autovista cars being a representation of the future, maybe. As for them being driveable, Ha ha, no. Sadly, the Autovista cars, the menu car and the car you actually race...are not the same car. Sorry. The Autovista cars are all laser scanned and incredibly detailed. (Except for maybe the Warthog. They COULD have laser scanned one of the movie prop ones, but it's more likely 343 gave them their in-game data and T10 tweaked it for FM4. Still wish that thing was driveable.) The menu cars are obviously higher resolution than the actual driveable cars. Think of the cars you race as the Standard versions of the Autovista cars.
I recognize what you're attempting by foisting the GT names for the tiers on the cars here, but no. I'll continue to look at Autovista cars as a glimpse of what could be possible in the next generation. The menu cars do however seem to be the same quality as your car when you enter Photomode. In a race, perhaps not, but I've fiddled long enough with the mode to notice.
Ironically, Autovista cars do accomplish something PD has yet to do with GT's otherwise fantastically modelled cars; they've made it about the sheer love of the automobile. We can't pour over every detail in that way in GT.
I also want to say that Seasonal Events and Rivals aren't quite the same thing. I guess you could argue they serve the same purpose, but that's even a stretch since Seasonal Events are mainly a way to earn money and experience outside of the main career, and while Rivals do that, too, they're mainly just for fun 'cause you can still earn plenty of money racing around.
Seasonal Events, in your own words, are "mainly a way to earn money and experience outside of the main career". Rivals is
exactly that. And actually, much like Seasonals, they will earn you more money, faster, than most of the career races will. I milked a few million alone out of the Top Gear Dynamo event.
I don't count the Auction House as a pro, 'cause I don't find much point of it anymore with the Storefront. With the storefront you can buy the liveries and tuning jobs you want without wasting a lot of money on a car.
Except you can buy them together as a package deal from the Auction House. Not to mention some people only sell their stuff that way. In addition, an Auction House lets you sell off your own non-wanted cars, and the market decides their price, instead of the game. Considering I can't even sell off anything more pricey than an F40 in GT5, there's another pro right there.
Also, I don't quite like some of the prize cars they give you in the levels. I've said this before about Forza, but there's one level where they give you a choice of one of five most expensive cars in the game. And the only problem with that is...it kinda makes them worthless. I guess, by offering a choice it doesn't TOTALLY kill the value except most people are going to pick the 9 million credit car over the other two because they don't want to spend that much.
You're complaining that the prize cars are too good? I agree, it should probably follow GT5's method, and gift you
the car you just had to use to beat a one-make race.
Neither game is perfect by far. And I doubt GT6 and FM5 will be perfect either....Let's just say I don't fully understand some of Turn 10's choices. GT5 is a massive game that took too long to make and cost a lot of money. FM4 took two years to make, so I guess you could argue that there wasn't a lot of time for them to make better decisions, but there's really no excuse for bad decisions. If you know you don't have time to finish a game, then either don't release it, or do what PD has done a few times in the past and take out anything that's not fully complete and release it. (BTW, I believe with GT2, GT3 and GT5 PD was under pressure from Sony to release the game despite it not being fully completed. I can't really mark a game down for not being complete when it wasn't entirely their fault it wasn't complete.)
By that last token, I guess you should absolve T10 of any "bad choices" you think they made, since that two year launch cycle has been put on them. It's not their fault! It's Microsoft's!
...funny you mention do what PD does, because they
did ship a game incomplete. And GT5 wasn't even the first time. Online play was yanked from GT4 at the 11th hour, and GT2 lost drag racing. But, again, what are the questionable/poor decisions?
EDIT: As for T10 fixing PI issues...umm...hasn't EVERY Forza game had an issue with some car's PI? I believe so. Which, you'd think they'd learn their lesson after four games, but I guess not.
Scaff and Toro have both already touched on this, so I'll just re-iterate. PD have so royally screwed the PP system up with this most recent update it's got the masses quitting altogether. Nevermind that they've already toyed with it a few times so far; and it wasn't even in the game to begin with. It's the problem with trying to give any racing game a balanced points-style approach; there will be loopholes and anomalies. Having the scale start at 100 creates problems once they added super-slow cars like the original Beetle, for instance.
OR, what happens most of the time, is that they'll take something I say out of context.
You need to ask yourself this; what are the chances that
everybody is taking what you're saying out of context, versus you're just not articulating what you might mean properly? Just looking back at my first post in here today; you've already said GT5 is easier to make money in (yet talking about Rivals, say there's plenty elsewhere in FM4, and that Rivals is "just for fun"). You still haven't touched on how much actual online experience you have in FM4. You hilariously called GT's DLC "good" and FM4's merely "decent". You cherry pick with comments like FM4's interiors being "not that great".
Now, I'm TRYING to have a nice discussion here without anyone ruining it.
You've managed to save all the name-calling for the other thread, yes.
For those who can't keep up and continue to take what I say out of context: Too bad. I'm just going to ignore you from now on. You obviously don't have the time to read back a few pages, so I'm not going to waste your time explaining it.
It's ironic you're going to complain about others ignoring parts of your posts.
*takes deep breath*
I should mention that I'm not really comparing GT5 to the older Forza games. It's just that, you guys keep mentioned issues in GT5 as if Forza hasn't had the same issues. Like the 800 GT4 cars. You guys mention that as if Forza 4 does have cars from FM1 in it. That's how they've been building up their car list: import cars from the previous games. It's clever...except you can tell the FM1 cars 'cause they look like crap.
I've said it before, in this thread, and I'll say it again; show me a single car in FM4 that has been carried over
wholesale from FM1. GT5's 800 Standards were imported with nary a touch-up. While I'm sure there's some models in FM4 that could date back as far as FM1 (though, like Toro, I'd assume they're closer to FM2's), like the first-gen NSX and the 22B, it's painfully obvious they've actually been updated.
I don't know why you guys bother, I really don't.
Sometimes, I don't either.
.
