FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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If you read, I actually said that GT5 had bad rollover and a bad damage model.

When was FM4's last update again?

My point about the level cap is, there's no point in raising it if you don't get anything for it. I don't really care WHAT they give you, but if 151 is the same as 900, then what's the point? Seriously, there was no real point in raising the cap. And, in reality, so many people getting to 150 already is their own fault more screwing up their leveling system after 100.

GT's sound isn't a con in my opinion. Especially with it's superior wind noise. And, besides, if I put GT's sound as a con, I'd have to mention that Forza 4's draft noise is crap.
 
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When was FM4's last update again?
Why does this matter? All of GT5's updates only represent how GT5 was an unfinished game from the start.
GT's sound isn't a con in my opinion. Especially with it's superior wind noise. And, besides, if I put GT's sound as a con, I'd have to mention that Forza 4's draft noise is crap.
Which is the greater problem? Bad engine sounds, or bad wind noises? Honestly, I'd dare say most people would say bad engine sounds would be the bigger problem.
 
If you read, I actually said that GT5 had bad rollover and a bad damage model.

When was FM4's last update again?

March 23rd, 2012. And it fixed PI levels, multiplayer issues and the aforementioned level cap increase.

Oh, and to my recollection it broke nothing in the process.


My point about the level cap is, there's no point in raising it if you don't get anything for it. I don't really care WHAT they give you, but if 151 is the same as 900, then what's the point? Seriously, there was no real point in raising the cap. And, in reality, so many people getting to 150 already is their own fault more screwing up their leveling system after 100.

The point of it was to extend the game's lifetime as they were originally under the impression Lv. 150 would take a year or so to achieve, but once they were proven wrong... such was decided. And, bragging rights. Dan himself attested to that.

GT's sound isn't a con in my opinion. Especially with it's superior wind noise. And, besides, if I put GT's sound as a con, I'd have to mention that Forza 4's draft noise is crap.

So because GT has superior wind noise that somehow negates the fact that there are an overwhelming number of cars that sound nothing like they're supposed to?
 
SuperShouden
If you read, I actually said that GT5 had bad rollover and a bad damage model.

On the contrary: reading should have made that apparent to you. You know, since I quoted your comments on that and responded to them point by point.

When was FM4's last update again?

Just so we're clear, you do actually want to go down this road? You want to make the argument that a team constantly introducing new problems each patch is a positive?

My point about the level cap is, there's no point in raising it if you don't get anything for it. I don't really care WHAT they give you, but if 151 is the same as 900, then what's the point? Seriously, there was no real point in raising the cap. And, in reality, so many people getting to 150 already is their own fault more screwing up their leveling system after 100.

Again, read. The higher levels are a rough, easy indicator of how much time the player has spent racing.

GT's sound isn't a con in my opinion. Especially with it's superior wind noise. And, besides, if I put GT's sound as a con, I'd have to mention that Forza 4's draft noise is crap.

That's fine. It's more accurate to separate "bad draft noise" from "bad engine noises". I'd definitely place one on a higher level of importance at any rate. And hey, while we're on the subject of sound: GT simulates the spatial qualities of it far better. Whether the realistic Doppler effect of an unrealistic, asthmatic V6 sound emanating from a Vette is a good thing or bad, however...
 
When was FM4's last update again?

Jeez son, you go nice and smooth for a few months then Bam, you drop the big one.

Anyway I won't go through all your stuff but ill pick out this one for jollies.

There's these things in Forza called leader boards. Now I've sat through a couple of leader board Wipes in Forza and it ain't pretty.
My Lotus Élan was scuppered in the last one for example but for the good of the game and to aid balance I'm happy to go with it Once, preferably not at all if possible.

Now it's all fine and dandy GT tweaking grip levels,Drag,Boost,weight,power and driver helmets 30 times since release because they don't have leader boards. Now if GT had dedicated leader boards for all classes and tracks they would have wiped the boards more than an Aussie surfer.

I actually commend T10 for sticking to there principle physics release. If its not broke why fix it etc.

While we're at it chalk up leader boards as a Forza pro please.
 
GT's sound isn't a con in my opinion. Especially with it's superior wind noise. And, besides, if I put GT's sound as a con, I'd have to mention that Forza 4's draft noise is crap.

I dunno about anyone else, but if I could turn off GT5's "superior wind noise" I would probably be a whole lot happier with my GT5 experience. At least then I could hear the probably-awful motor sounds of the car I'm driving (assuming the transmission whine isn't so loud that I'm getting a headache after 20 minutes) so I can know when to shift.


Though awful sounds aside, GT5 does have a lot better sound design, yes.
 
Toronado
I dunno about anyone else, but if I could turn off GT5's "superior wind noise" I would probably be a whole lot happier with my GT5 experience. At least then I could hear the probably-awful motor sounds of the car I'm driving (assuming the transmission whine isn't so loud that I'm getting a headache after 20 minutes) so I can know when to shift.

I agree with this I love hearing the sound of the car while driving plus I run without the hud and use the sounds to know when to shift.
 
Didn't FM2 and 3 also have a lot of updates, and didn't they also tend to introduce more problems. Isn't that how the AWD glitch was introduced in FM3?

I don't know. You can either take a lot of patching as a sign that the game was unfinished, or you can take it as the developers are still listening to the community and trying to make the game better.

I do agree, that there wasn't a lot of stuff to do in GT5's career. But to me, the careers on both game are kinda even simply because what FM4 makes up in number of events it fails at the variety of tracks. That's why I thought Forza 4 had less real world tracks. FM4 doesn't use them that much. (Also, I only did the Miata endurance once in GT5. I don't fully understand what you were getting at there. Are you trying to say you race the miata on Tsukuba a lot? But there's the endurance and maybe another race there with it? Which pales in comparison to ho many times I've gone around the Alps in FM4...or Sadona in FM3. (both tracks I HATE now.)

Speaking of tracks, I should have mentioned that the track models in GT are better than FM4, in my opinion.

As for the Autovista cars being a representation of the future, maybe. As for them being driveable, Ha ha, no. Sadly, the Autovista cars, the menu car and the car you actually race...are not the same car. Sorry. The Autovista cars are all laser scanned and incredibly detailed. (Except for maybe the Warthog. They COULD have laser scanned one of the movie prop ones, but it's more likely 343 gave them their in-game data and T10 tweaked it for FM4. Still wish that thing was driveable.) The menu cars are obviously higher resolution than the actual driveable cars. Think of the cars you race as the Standard versions of the Autovista cars.

I also want to say that Seasonal Events and Rivals aren't quite the same thing. I guess you could argue they serve the same purpose, but that's even a stretch since Seasonal Events are mainly a way to earn money and experience outside of the main career, and while Rivals do that, too, they're mainly just for fun 'cause you can still earn plenty of money racing around.

I guess I see your point about the raised level cap...but...I don't know.

I don't count the Auction House as a pro, 'cause I don't find much point of it anymore with the Storefront. With the storefront you can buy the liveries and tuning jobs you want without wasting a lot of money on a car.

Also, I don't quite like some of the prize cars they give you in the levels. I've said this before about Forza, but there's one level where they give you a choice of one of five most expensive cars in the game. And the only problem with that is...it kinda makes them worthless. I guess, by offering a choice it doesn't TOTALLY kill the value except most people are going to pick the 9 million credit car over the other two because they don't want to spend that much.

Neither game is perfect by far. And I doubt GT6 and FM5 will be perfect either....Let's just say I don't fully understand some of Turn 10's choices. GT5 is a massive game that took too long to make and cost a lot of money. FM4 took two years to make, so I guess you could argue that there wasn't a lot of time for them to make better decisions, but there's really no excuse for bad decisions. If you know you don't have time to finish a game, then either don't release it, or do what PD has done a few times in the past and take out anything that's not fully complete and release it. (BTW, I believe with GT2, GT3 and GT5 PD was under pressure from Sony to release the game despite it not being fully completed. I can't really mark a game down for not being complete when it wasn't entirely their fault it wasn't complete.)

EDIT: As for T10 fixing PI issues...umm...hasn't EVERY Forza game had an issue with some car's PI? I believe so. Which, you'd think they'd learn their lesson after four games, but I guess not.
 
Didn't FM2 and 3 also have a lot of updates, and didn't they also tend to introduce more problems. Isn't that how the AWD glitch was introduced in FM3?
)

Nope AWD dominated on day one.

Another point I didn't mention about changing the physics every two minutes is having to retune all your cars again, not very fun.
 
I mean, there was a glitch in FM3 (or was it 2? I can't remember) where you could make your car become AWD. I believe it was introduced with a patch and then removed with another one.

EDIT: I also don't know how my opinion of GT and FM is borderline abusive when it's in a GT vs. FM thread. Unless of course, saying that GT is better than FM is abusive in some way.
 
FM4 took two years to make, so I guess you could argue that there wasn't a lot of time for them to make better decisions, but there's really no excuse for bad decisions.
And the bad decisions are?


If you know you don't have time to finish a game, then either don't release it, or do what PD has done a few times in the past and take out anything that's not fully complete and release it.
Seriously did you really aim that at T10 for FM4 while ignoring the state that GT5 was in when it was released?

Could you let me know when we will get leaderboards, the shadow detail will be fixed and the sort out the particle effects. I know we only had to wait around 3/4 months to be allowed to tune gear ratios. The whole of the Top Gear side of GT5, along with the WRC and NASCAR licences they pretty much failed to use in any serious way, all of those feel fairly unfinished to me (along with the whole concept of rallying in GT5).



(BTW, I believe with GT2, GT3 and GT5 PD was under pressure from Sony to release the game despite it not being fully completed. I can't really mark a game down for not being complete when it wasn't entirely their fault it wasn't complete.)
Who's fault was it then?


EDIT: As for T10 fixing PI issues...umm...hasn't EVERY Forza game had an issue with some car's PI? I believe so. Which, you'd think they'd learn their lesson after four games, but I guess not.
You mean just at PD have had with GT5's system and every non-formula race series in the world has. Do you know how many times the BTCC and WTCC have redone the criteria and balancing they use (i.e. a real world version of PI/PP), hell the BTCC have done it mid-season on a number of occasions, and the ACO does it every year for Le Mans.
 
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EDIT: As for T10 fixing PI issues...umm...hasn't EVERY Forza game had an issue with some car's PI? I believe so. Which, you'd think they'd learn their lesson after four games, but I guess not.

Meanwhile, with the latest GT5 patch PD just took their finely honed PP system that, while frequently problematic with the amount of modifications it ignored and with a handful of ringers at each PP level, generally provided good racing so long as you use it wisely; and absolutely destroyed it to the extent that some people are banning an entire drivetrain to get some semblance of balance in rooms and some racing leagues have outright shut down. I'm personally not going to touch GT5 until they fix it (nor am I the only one who has sworn off the game in response), which frustrates me greatly because a friend just bought a PS3 and the game mostly so he can race with me and I can't do it.


So.
 
It's your ability to blatantly ignore facts and then yell at everyone afterwards.

Are you seriously going to try and say that GT5 has better sound because of wind noise?
WIND NOISE?!? Not to mention that most of the cars in GT5 sound like a dying vacuum cleaner trying to suck up a cat that's screaming for its life.
 
SuperShouden
I mean, there was a glitch in FM3 (or was it 2? I can't remember) where you could make your car become AWD. I believe it was introduced with a patch and then removed with another one.

EDIT: I also don't know how my opinion of GT and FM is borderline abusive when it's in a GT vs. FM thread. Unless of course, saying that GT is better than FM is abusive in some way.

You are basing almost all of your observations on FM3 you do realise there is a FM4 which is superior to FM3?
 
It's your ability to blatantly ignore facts and then yell at everyone afterwards.

Are you seriously going to try and say that GT5 has better sound because of wind noise?
WIND NOISE?!? Not to mention that most of the cars in GT5 sound like a dying vacuum cleaner trying to suck up a cat that's screaming for its life.

No. That's not what I said at all. I said GT5 has better wind noise, period. That's it. Forza 4 has better car sounds. I think I said that, too. Everyone has an awesome ability to not read everything I post. OR, what happens most of the time, is that they'll take something I say out of context.

Now, I'm TRYING to have a nice discussion here without anyone ruining it.


For those who can't keep up and continue to take what I say out of context: Too bad. I'm just going to ignore you from now on. You obviously don't have the time to read back a few pages, so I'm not going to waste your time explaining it.
 
GT's sound isn't a con in my opinion. Especially with it's superior wind noise. And, besides, if I put GT's sound as a con, I'd have to mention that Forza 4's draft noise is crap.

You said that GT5's sound wasn't a con because of it's wind noise, which is laughable.

"I'd have to mention FM4's draft noise."
lolno

If GT5 has bad sound then you list it, not doing this "If I list it then I'll also do the same from Forza to make GT look better crap."

And what draft noise? There isn't any, nor should there be.

Edit:
You obviously don't have the time to read back a few pages, so I'm not going to waste your time explaining it.

:lol: The irony...
 
SuperShouden
No. That's not what I said at all. I said GT5 has better wind noise, period. That's it. Forza 4 has better car sounds. I think I said that, too. Everyone has an awesome ability to not read everything I post. OR, what happens most of the time, is that they'll take something I say out of context.

Now, I'm TRYING to have a nice discussion here without anyone ruining it.

For those who can't keep up and continue to take what I say out of context: Too bad. I'm just going to ignore you from now on. You obviously don't have the time to read back a few pages, so I'm not going to waste your time explaining it.

Ignoring people who make fair points won't make them go away.

Dont get upset just because people don't agree with you.
 
No. That's not what I said at all. I said GT5 has better wind noise, period. That's it. Forza 4 has better car sounds. I think I said that, too. Everyone has an awesome ability to not read everything I post. OR, what happens most of the time, is that they'll take something I say out of context.

Now, I'm TRYING to have a nice discussion here without anyone ruining it.

Well. It's sorta hard to believe that considering you go around and do a few things:

A)You call out the mods saying that they 'hate' you and tell them to ban you and that they're holding you on this site, which is quite honestly more ridiculous than anything that I've heard barring some absolutely pointless claims by eminembeastfan2.

B)You commonly say things like '🤬 you. You're a d:censored:e.' You actually expect people to want to work with you when you treat them like that?

C)You don't have a very strong argument. I personally prefer GT5 too but saying that the sounds in GT5 are better.. Because of the wind? I hardly give a damn what the wind sounds like in a racing game. It can sound beautiful but it all means nothing if the engine itself sounds like an auto-tuned vacuum cleaner. This isn't "the real wind simulator" and honestly I'd give up the sound of wind altogether just to have some of those glorious sounds like in Forza.

And you've been comparing GT5 to Forza 2 and 3 alot. Sorry again, but.. No. Forza 2 and 3 are in the past, in all ways. We're talking about Forza 4 and GT5 here (and I guess maybe horizon as well?). You wouldn't like it if I said "Well Forza 4 is better than GT4" now would you? So how can you do a similar thing with Forza?

I'm sorry, it's just lately you've been incredibly upset with people and seem to be completely ignorant of why this may be.

Check your facts, don't make arguments if you can't legitimately back it up, and even if somebody is a bit tough on you first, that gives you no right to treat them like dirt. All it does is spread even more hate.
 
jackie-chan-wtf-macro.png
 
Are we going to talk about me or are we going to talk about the games?

If you, like the rest of us, actually want to start talking about the games, then there's a super easy way to do that.

Don't give us reasons to talk about you.

Problem. Solved.
 
"Attack the argument, not the arguer" goes both ways, guys.

Sorry. You're right, thanks for bringing that point up. And with that, back on topic.

It's amazing really because if everything in GT5 was complete and solid and working, it could give Forza a real run for it's money.

It's simply that GT5 has such an unrefined feeling to it that Forza just seems to have so much more content than GT5. While Forza does indeed have more anyways, personally I feel as though GT5's content goes more unnoticed by the fact that nothing fits together, nothing works together, it all ends up as just short little segments, each feeling about 50% complete.
 
*takes deep breath*

I should mention that I'm not really comparing GT5 to the older Forza games. It's just that, you guys keep mentioned issues in GT5 as if Forza hasn't had the same issues. Like the 800 GT4 cars. You guys mention that as if Forza 4 does have cars from FM1 in it. That's how they've been building up their car list: import cars from the previous games. It's clever...except you can tell the FM1 cars 'cause they look like crap.
 
*takes deep breath*

I should mention that I'm not really comparing GT5 to the older Forza games. It's just that, you guys keep mentioned issues in GT5 as if Forza hasn't had the same issues. Like the 800 GT4 cars. You guys mention that as if Forza 4 does have cars from FM1 in it. That's how they've been building up their car list: import cars from the previous games. It's clever...except you can tell the FM1 cars 'cause they look like crap.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8028391#post8028391
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8028701#post8028701
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8030660#post8030660

And Slip has mentioned the nasty looking NSX models and Impreza 22B in the past well before that, too.


Though I'm pretty sure they date back to FM2 rather than the first game, and they have at least been touched up a bit from what I've seen comparing them. They do need to be done from scratch next game, but they aren't the same thing. The Standard cars were not touched whatsoever. Not even to fix the performance problems that have dogged some of them for so long that they started way back when Sega GT was the Gran Turismo competitor instead of Forza.
 
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