FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Tornado]

Not all of them, and it still skews any discussion of duplicates (weather actual duplicates or perceived ones) heavily in Forza's favor.

 

[Eks]

The FM4 duplicates are so we can get different Team Paint Jobs in it, GT5 just have:
Duplicate Skylines.
Duplicate GT-Rs.
Duplicate Ford GTs.
Duplicate MX-5s.
Duplicate Vauxhalls that become Opel.
Duplicate NSXs.
Duplicate TTs.
Duplicate Zs.
Duplicate RX-8s.
Duplicate RX-7s.
I'm more of a Racing/Touring Car guy so I prefer FM4 duplicates.

But why have so many duplicate race cars when you can have 1 car and just select different liveries? (Like GT4 did with the Pescarolos, sort of)
Of course, I think GT5 (and 6) needs this too.

 

[Com Fox]

But why have so many duplicate race cars when you can have 1 car and just select different liveries? (Like GT4 did with the Pescarolos, sort of)
Of course, I think GT5 (and 6) needs this too.

I think they don't do it because some teams tune their car differently or have a different tyre suppliers (The woodone GT-R is a Good example (It somehow beats all the other GT-Rs in the Super GT and Suzuka 1000km event I race)).

 

[Scaff]

FORZA 4 WINS. The Devs who made GT5 are fools, it took them so long to make the game yet it was a big disappointment and they did not even make the AI better.

While I agree with a number of points you have raised I would aks that you refrain from personal insults, the AUP is quite clear on this....

You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack any individual or any group.

....please do not do this again.

PD are fools right? Because even fools can make a game that sells for nearly 70 million copies.

Quantity =/= Quality and while the manner in which Cassius101 communicated this is not acceptable, it would take a rather bold person to say that PD didn;t make some rather questionable choices when it came to GT5.

GT5 is the most dissapointing GT5 game ever? I can't say I agree, especially since GT5 is the only one in the GT5 series and there is nothing else to compare it to.

Odd because I seem to remember this:

That would also be a title in the GT5 'series', despite the fact that I'm quite sure that what was meant was that GT5 is the most disappointing GT game ever. I would however have to agree on both points, personally I find GT5 the most disappointing GT title and more disappointing that GT5.

Anyway, also remember the amount of touring/race car duplicates in FM4. (Not to say GT doesn't have them)

While I fully agree that this kind of thing should always be done as liveries rather than separate cars, the degree of dupes in FM4 is at a significantly lower scale than in GT5.

Aren't those cars you've brought up standard?...

Which changes what exactly?

 

[Com Fox]

I personally reckon GT5 is a great game . GT4 is my favourite of all time.

I disagree with saying GT5, the worst GT, it actually brought a challenge which I've only seen in GT3 (the rest were to easy). I'm many of the few people who likes the cars screeching when you corner in GT5 it feels like your really tackling the corner .

 

[Scaff]

I personally reckon GT5 is a great game . GT4 is my favourite of all time.

I disagree with saying GT5, the worst GT, it actually brought a challenge which I've only seen in GT3 (the rest were to easy). I'm many of the few people who likes the cars screeching when you corner in GT5 it feels like your really tackling the corner .

You might want to read my post again. I prefer GT5 to GT5, it was a more consistent, better looking package with a good challenge and matchmaking for the on-line. It actually got me rather optimistic for GT5, which in turn failed to live up to the standard that GT5 had.

 

[Eks]

@Scaff
Well, you got me there with the GT5rologue thing. I don't consider Prologues as installments to a series though, that's probably why I forgot it.

Anyways, yeah the FM4 duplicates are no where near as bad as GT5's but it's definitely something when you go to a manufacturer and see 1 road car with 5 race car clones.

 

[Com Fox]

You might want to read my post again. I prefer GT5 to GT5, it was a more consistent, better looking package with a good challenge and matchmaking for the on-line. It actually got me rather optimistic for GT5, which in turn failed to live up to the standard that GT5 had.

Oh, ok sorry for my misread.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Which changes what exactly?

To me, because the "standards" are mostly the portion in GT5 that are the duplicates, despite there being 2 makes having duplicates of their own but only two each in the premium side, which in fact are both Suzuki and Mazda. That is how I see it...

EDIT: Actually I believe theres more, Nissan is one with the new GT-Rs.

 

[Com Fox]

@Scaff
Well, you got me there with the GT5rologue thing. I don't consider Prologues as installments to a series though, that's probably why I forgot it.

Anyways, yeah the FM4 duplicates are no where near as bad as GT5's but it's definitely something when you go to a manufacturer and see 1 road car with 5 race car clones.

Yeah I see wherw your going, however in GT5 you see 1 race car (that might not be the team livery you want) then you see 10 of the same skyline.

 

[Scaff]

To me, because the "standards" are mostly the portion in GT5 that are the duplicates, despite there being 2 makes having duplicates of their own but only two each in the premium side, which in fact are both Suzuki and Mazda. That is how I see it...

EDIT: Actually I believe theres more, Nissan is one with the new GT-Rs.

Given that 80% of the cars in GT5 are standard its not exactly a massive surprise that the majority of the duplicates would be standard cars, I don't however see exactly what that changes about GT5 having duplicates?

Most of the duplicates are in standards, but these are still cars in the game and PD made the choice to include them, so I don;t see how them being standard changes that one bit?

 

[TokoTurismo]

Given that 80% of the cars in GT5 are standard its not exactly a massive surprise that the majority of the duplicates would be standard cars, I don't however see exactly what that changes about GT5 having duplicates?

Most of the duplicates are in standards, but these are still cars in the game and PD made the choice to include them, so I don;t see how them being standard changes that one bit?

Well yes PD were the ones who made the choice of adding the standard cars into GT5 (which was an awful idea in their part). However, I still won't see them counting as much like the premiums. So imo, they're just carry-overs made by PD to include into GT5, having the purpose of mostly being for car count.

Such as the Vauxhall race cars, those race cars weren't even in GT4 nor GTPSP, which is why they were made, for "car count". Get it?

 

[Com Fox]

Well yes PD were the ones who made the choice of adding the standard cars into GT5 (which was an awful idea in their part). However, I still won't see them counting as much like the premiums. So imo, they're just carry-overs made by PD to include into GT5, having the purpose of mostly being for car count.

Such as the Vauxhall race cars, those race cars weren't even in GT4 nor GTPSP, which is why they were made, for "car count". Get it?

Well Vauxhall race cars were in GT4, I can tell you that.

Judging something by graphics to me seems a little bit wrong.

 

[Scaff]

Well Vauxhall race cars were in GT4, I can tell you that.

Judging something by graphics to me seems a little bit wrong.

They are - but I believe its down to region, you either got them as Vauxhall's or Opal's.

 

[Com Fox]

They are - but I believe its down to region, you either got them as Vauxhall's or Opal's.

Really?

In GT3 it was the case (Australians got Vauxhall's), however in GT4 we got both Vauxhall's and Opel's.

 

[Scaff]

Really?

In GT3 it was the case (Australians got Vauxhall's), however in GT4 we got both Vauxhall's and Opel's.

You could be right, its been a while since I fired up either.

 

[cuco33]

Well yes PD were the ones who made the choice of adding the standard cars into GT5 (which was an awful idea in their part). However, I still won't see them counting as much like the premiums. So imo, they're just carry-overs made by PD to include into GT5, having the purpose of mostly being for car count.

Such as the Vauxhall race cars, those race cars weren't even in GT4 nor GTPSP, which is why they were made, for "car count". Get it?

Sorry but I disagree. PD and Sony promoted GT5 as having 1000+ cars. They did so by including the standards, regardless of duplicates. Standards are also required for A/B spec career races and have been part of prize cars when completing events. Seasonal events also had standards in them. The AI across the game would race in many standards. The only sections in the game locked to premiums are special events and photo travel.

In every way standards and premiums should be counted as the same especially since the norm and bulk of content are in fact standards. The problem is that it is more than just the quality in the models. Too many features are half assed, patched in or not doable at all in a standard. The only time content has been split in feature and quality was when PD launched GT5. Biggest black eye in my book.

 

[buickgnx88]

Sorry but I disagree. PD and Sony promoted GT5 as having 1000+ cars. They did so by including the standards, regardless of duplicates. Standards are also required for A/B spec career races and have been part of prize cars when completing events. Seasonal events also had standards in them. The AI across the game would race in many standards. The only sections in the game locked to premiums are special events and photo travel.

Agree. The fact that they force you to use standards for certain races means that they are part of the game, and can be included in the duplicates discussion.

That and the fact that PD decided to throw every regional variant in as well.

 

[eran0004]

Perhaps I'm too old for this discussion, but gather around and listen to what old grandpa has to say: I grew up back in the days when the WWII Hellcats we flew over the pacific ocean were cubistic creations whose polygons you could count with the fingers on one hand, and the enemy flak shells popping around us were merely triangles in black and orange. The guns we fired in our lethal dogfights were simply black dots flying away into the horizon. Inevitably, those of us who grew up during those dark ages were so unfortunate to be cursed by something called "imagination", which meant that if something didn't look quite like the real thing, imagination kicked in and made it all appear real to us. Still today we are haunted by it and painfully enough it makes us unable to see what exactly is so terribly horrifying with the standard cars in GT5. You youngsters don't know how lucky you are!

 

[TokoTurismo]

Sorry but I disagree. PD and Sony promoted GT5 as having 1000+ cars. They did so by including the standards, regardless of duplicates. Standards are also required for A/B spec career races and have been part of prize cars when completing events. Seasonal events also had standards in them. The AI across the game would race in many standards. The only sections in the game locked to premiums are special events and photo travel.

In every way standards and premiums should be counted as the same especially since the norm and bulk of content are in fact standards. The problem is that it is more than just the quality in the models. Too many features are half assed, patched in or not doable at all in a standard. The only time content has been split in feature and quality was when PD launched GT5. Biggest black eye in my book.

Okay what you said about the standards being prizes and even driven by the A.I. is true though (which I totally forgot). >_> But I'm not going to continue making a big deal over the whole standard car concept, because I and WE KNOW they won't return back period in GT6, which is good.

That is all.

 

[cuco33]

It isn't about being a youngster eran, but i understand what you mean (i loathe kiddies who cry foul because a multiplatform game is missing an extra particle effect on one platform or you have to zoom in 400x just to see detail you otherwise wouldn't). It is expecting high quality and a finished product we buy from a developer as known as PD is. When you look at how gorgeous a premium car it really tells the story of standards. Then the disparity in features and what has been patched with them is the icing on cake. If ANY other developer were to do what PD did, they would be torn to shreds. This practice shouldn't be praised nor defended by anyone. And for reference I have played games as far back as when a bouncing box was a ball and there was a 2 color scheme, black or green.

 

[cuco33]

Okay what you said about the standards being prizes and even driven by the A.I. is true though (which I totally forgot). >_> But I'm not going to continue making a big deal over the whole standard car concept, because I and WE KNOW they won't return back period in GT6, which is good.

That is all.

I would bet that they don't return (and will be very happy too) but until GT6 is out, we just won't know. We only found out about the standards in GT5 very late in development, just before GT5 launched. PD was very hush hush about them, being vague, and there were things we knew about them lacking compared to premiums when we had the discs in our PS3s.

Personally, instead of GT5P, PD should have released a GT4HD and left the 200+ premiums to GT5. I would have bought both regardless but I refuse to purchase Prologues

 

[Luminis]

Perhaps I'm too old for this discussion, but gather around and listen to what old grandpa has to say: I grew up back in the days when the WWII Hellcats we flew over the pacific ocean were cubistic creations whose polygons you could count with the fingers on one hand, and the enemy flak shells popping around us were merely triangles in black and orange. The guns we fired in our lethal dogfights were simply black dots flying away into the horizon. Inevitably, those of us who grew up during those dark ages were so unfortunate to be cursed by something called "imagination", which meant that if something didn't look quite like the real thing, imagination kicked in and made it all appear real to us. Still today we are haunted by it and painfully enough it makes us unable to see what exactly is so terribly horrifying with the standard cars in GT5. You youngsters don't know how lucky you are!

And for those who are lacking imagination: Beer. Lots of it.

 

[Com Fox]

I would bet that they don't return (and will be very happy too) but until GT6 is out, we just won't know. We only found out about the standards in GT5 very late in development, just before GT5 launched. PD was very hush hush about them, being vague, and there were things we knew about them lacking compared to premiums when we had the discs in our PS3s.

Personally, instead of GT5P, PD should have released a GT4HD and left the 200+ premiums to GT5. I would have bought both regardless but I refuse to purchase Prologues

What is the point in that?

I would like a GT4HD but not a GT5 with only premium. The game would have far less cars and it would be to easy to complete, oh and it would be even more easy.
Their would be only 3 LMP, 2 group C, no DTM,no Australian cars, only 2 "dream" cars, no Opels/Vauxhall, no Cadillac, no GT1 cars. It woukd also make the game even more easier then it already is. GT5P is actually fun because it actually brought a challenge which GT3 was the only hard game before GT5P. The rest were way to easy.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I would bet that they don't return (and will be very happy too) but until GT6 is out, we just won't know. We only found out about the standards in GT5 very late in development, just before GT5 launched. PD was very hush hush about them, being vague, and there were things we knew about them lacking compared to premiums when we had the discs in our PS3s.

Personally, instead of GT5P, PD should have released a GT4HD and left the 200+ premiums to GT5. I would have bought both regardless but I refuse to purchase Prologues

Agreed. I had the same thought too about having just 200+ cars in GT5, wouldn't mind at all. I did however, also found it very bad how PD never explained about the standard cars, totally forgot about that but glad we worked their butts on them though, so now they'll never attempt to add them again, haha.

I wouldn't buy the prologues either though, they're just meant for being milkers for money.

What is the point in that?

I would like a GT4HD but not a GT5 with only premium.

So you would want standard cars in GT5 anyway???

 

[Com Fox]

So you would want standard cars in GT5 anyway???[/QUOTE]

Yes, especially since most of my favourite cars are standard's, If it wasn't for them in GT5 would've been crowned the easiest game of the decade. I might not care if their Standards because of me driving in third person but without them I wouldn't buy this game because I would only want the lamborghinis and the GT500 cars. Never judge something 100% by the way it is in graphics.

 

[Luminis]

Yes, especially since most of my favourite cars are standard's, If it wasn't for them in GT5 would've been crowned the easiest game of the decade. I might not care if their Standards because of me driving in third person but without them I wouldn't buy this game because I would only want the lamborghinis and the GT500 cars. Never judge something 100% by the way it is in graphics.

Not having standard cars in the game wouldn't have enabled PD to use them as an excuse, though. I'd assume that the car list would've looked different if there weren't any standard cars than the current premium car list does. Or did at release, for that matter.

 

[Com Fox]

Not having standard cars in the game wouldn't have enabled PD to use them as an excuse, though. I'd assume that the car list would've looked different if there weren't any standard cars than the current premium car list does. Or did at release, for that matter.

I would be ashamed of the car list if they only did premiums, a lack of normal race cars dissapoints me.

 

[HAL20XX]

Yes, especially since most of my favourite cars are standard's, If it wasn't for them in GT5 would've been crowned the easiest game of the decade.

Are you saying that premium cars make the game easier?

 

[Luminis]

I would be ashamed of the car list if they only did premiums, a lack of normal race cars dissapoints me.

That's precisely my point: If they hadn't had the standards to fall back on, they would've had to model a better variety of cars. That's my train of thought, at least. However, it's PD we're talking about, after all...