Eh, I've got a week off, I might as well have some fun...
Gran Turismo is the better game.
To you, sure. That's great, you've made that abundantly clear for years now.
If I shoehorned all the previous games' car models into FM4, it'd have more cars. But wisely, someone at T10 realized quantity should take a backseat to quality.
2. More real world tracks
I count 12 for GT5, since I'm adding Spa and Motegi. I count 16 for FM4 - and I'm even discounting the full Nurburgring for that total.
3. Awesome driver animations
By awesome, I assume you mean "better than FM4". I won't argue that, but I wouldn't count either as awesome.
4. Much easier to make money throughout the life of the game.
Well, provided you've kept pace with their constant stream of updates (more on that later) so that you can play online. Otherwise, prepare for a level of grinding not normally seen outside of a Final Fantasy title.
Definitely.
I remain unconvinced by GT5's weather, since it strikes me as far more of a graphical feature than an actual physics-related one at this point in time, but yeah, I'll give that too.
Wait... aren't you the one who said he hasn't even raced online in FM4, but instead would base your opinion on the dabbling you did in FM3?
Really?
Rivals Mode. Which actually includes my friends in the competitive nature, though really, you can race against anybody with it.
Better track DLC than FM4's poor (non-existent) stuff, yeah. The car DLC isn't even a close match.
10. Decent AI that actually behaves a bit more realistically. Like moving out of your way in Endurance races when you're lapping them.
Who travel single-file and usually devolve into a rabbit-chase in the afore-mentioned seasonals.
Good and bad. I can set them up in FM4, but I can't pause them, which sucks. Prior to the Seasonal Events in GT5 though, if you wanted to complete the game, you would've had to run the earlier 24H enduro
numerous times to gain access to the other one. Progress?
...and particle effects (smoke). And frame-rate.
A shared trait, this.
3. Not a great damage model
No, let's substitute your preferred "poopy". Because it is.
4. Poopy cockpit in standard cars.
Non-existent on all Standards for the first year. Non-existent on the vast majority of standards after that; it's a simple blacked-out part of the screen, you couldn't even see the hood/bonnet of the car through it. I could achieve the same effect by taping some cardboard to the top and bottom of my TV.
Forza 4 Pros:
1. Livery maker
...and Auction House. And Marketplace. And physics. And tuning.
Except an apparent bias on par with GT
Wait, where was the con for GT in regards to sound?
Good DLC cars. It didn't consist of a GT-R every pack (speaking of, packs came sporadically), or fantasy-racing versions of existing cars in the game (all bar one being, surprise, Japanese), or the Toyabaru triplets. I'm speaking of FM4, though; Horizon's car DLC is quite bad.
And Road Atlanta. And Road America. And Sonoma, nee Infineon.
6. Number of races and variety of races
Agreed.
Cons:
1. Poopy driver animations (why does he return his hand to the wheel between each shift? And he always has that poopy five-point racing harness no matter what he's driving, so it looks like crap sometimes)
GT's driver's painful reluctance to remove his hand from the gearshift bothers me almost as much. Considering the wide age-range of cars in FM4, I'll agree about the harness.
2. Not a lot of real world tracks.
By that, you mean more than GT5, I assume.
3. Not a lot of variety in the tracks in events. They LOVE to make you race that stupid Alps track. And even in the series like the International Masters, most of the tracks are the same in each class. It gets tedious after a while.
Eunos Roadster at Tsukuba? How's about Miatas at Tsukuba? You know what, you're probably tired of that, take some MX-5's to Tsukuba to cool down.
4. Poopy roll over physics
Yep.
5. Poopy damage physics which aren't entirely consistent.
Not always no, but at least affect car performance in a more believable way.
6. Stupid AI with no awareness of anything that's NOT in front of them.
I've found them quite aware of me in some instances, others, not so much. They're inconsistent, almost like the people I race online...
7. Autovista. Kinda cool, but pretty pointless in reality. YAY! Cars we can't drive! Awesome. Seriously, they're GT's Premium cars, but you can't drive them.
No, they're above that level. And while I too question the mode's inclusion, I stand firm in my belief it was mostly to showcase the models that will be the actual gameplay models we'll be seeing later this year...
8. Interiors aren't that great. And the driving position and view is weird. It's like they used the view from the back seat or behind the driver and then just zoomed in, so sometimes the dash and windshield don't look right together, and the driver sometimes looks like he's pressed against the glass. Also, the interior shadows are just as jaggy in FM4 as they are in GT5.
They're better than 800+ of GT5's.
9. Poopy graphics on the custom decals in the menus. I don't know what T10 did here, but it was a terrible choice whatever it was. Are the menu cars like Autovista quality? Or are they the weird, non-driveable, ultra-high rez versions like in FM3? If so, why didn't they fix the custom liveries? It's so wonderful to spend 8 hours or so on a livery only to have it look like crap in the menus.
They could use some improvement, sure, but I have found there are methods to ensure the best quality. Also, I mean... it's still better than paint chips.
10. In consistent difficulty in World Tour. I know it's dynamic, but it's still frustratingly wonky.
I don't remember that problem, it scaled fine for me.
11. World Tour Mode. This would be a million times better if you didn't have to sit through the idiot talking before every race. Or you could at least skip it. It would also be better if you could select the difficulty 'cause the dynamic difficulty sucks.
It's better than the measly amount offered in GT5's normal career, which forces grinding on the player to even be able to access new races.
12. Pointless raised level cap. I don't know why they raised it? So people can brag that they're level 217? But...you don't get anything for getting there. Normally, when a game raises the level cap, there's usually a reason for it. Like accessing different things that require a different level. But with Forza...you get nothing. Absolutely nothing. So what's the point of raising the level cap? I don't know. Although it's kind of a middle finger from Turn10 to it's players 'cause players asked for the raised level cap, and Turn10 said, "okay," and made it rather useless. because after 150, you don't get anything. So, level 151 is the same as 999.
Why do you need anything? At level 150, you should be doing plenty well for yourself. I've always been happy for the level cap increase, regardless of the lack of prize money; making it 999 gives you a much better idea of exactly how much the other person plays the game. GT5? 40 and done... which is where I've sat for a year and a half.
13. In consistent leveling.
This one is a bit weird. Agreed.
In short: Forza is a great game. GT is a great game. Both games have their flaws, but Tun10 made more mistakes and questionable decisions.
Like relying on outdated assets to carry the bulk of the game?
What's worse is they didn't really try to fix the issues. They've actually been known NOT to worry about issues unless a lot of people complain about them like the AWD glitch in FM3.
For gameplay-related problems, like the AWD dominance, yeah, I'd want updates. But it speaks of their pride in the product that they don't constantly have to patch it every couple weeks because their previous patch provided yet another problem.
But with FM4 I don't know if they did much patching at all other than pointlessly raising the level cap....without adding awards for the increased levels. What did they not want people at level 900 earning 3 million credits? Why? If you got that far in the game, you should earn that much money.
If someone got to level 900, the amount of prize money they'd win just from racing would've given them
way more than enough.
PD is CONSTANTLY releasing patches and fixes for the games many problems. And that to me just adds to GT5's superiority.
Your idea of superiority is a complete lack of QA testing, so that a game that's been on the market for
over two years still needs patches every couple weeks to fix some ill-thought-out problem the last patch created? What about the constant tweaking of the physics engine, or up until recently, having two distinct physics models between offline and online? Relating to that, how long was it before we could actually roll a car online?
I'm sorry Forza fans, you've not quite made it to GT's level yet.
That's true. Perhaps FM5 can take a page from GT5 and ship unfinished, to the point the online aspect has to be a part of an immediate patch. Perhaps it can advertise features on the box that, two years later, still are not implemented. Maybe it can recycle decade-old assets to be used as the majority of the car roster. They'll want to trash their in-depth tire model too. Oh, and sit in development for half a decade
But, with the Next Box and PS4 sounding pretty even performance wise and the possibility of FM5 and GT6 releasing around the same time, 2014 could be an interesting year.
It could be, and from what little we know of GT6, it's promising. But I fear having the games released near each other, on systems that are similar, will just take another arrow from an increasingly empty stock for GT fans, when it comes to excuses for why Forza might surpass it in any particular category. FM4 has had the "it's a newer game" complaint levelled at it when compared to GT5 (yet some people had no problem doing the same with GT5 vs FM3), or what about the "it's only the first iteration on the new system" defence for GT5?
