FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[SuperShouden]

To me it's interesting that there's always people complaining about the all the Japanese cars in GT5, yet, when Turn10 has people vote for which unicorn they want to receive, which cars do they vote for first? The Japanese cars. Seems contradictory, to me. So, you guys WANT Japanese cars...just not so many? Is that the thing? That's understandable. But, then it would seem, that Forza has too few Japanese cars.

How about this for a trade off: Forza can get rid of all it's Chevy's, at least 2 of the CTS-V's and GT can loose the majority of it's Japanese cars....let's say...GT can have 50 Japanese cars...no, that's too few....how about 100? And Forza can have 100 American cars? Maybe...I don't know what you guys want, to be honest. I just think people will find something to complain about.

That said....if there ever is an GT HD Collection, it will be the best looking HD Collection ever 'cause they already have all the HD models. And then people won't be complaining, much, I think.

 

[McLaren]

To me it's interesting that there's always people complaining about the all the Japanese cars in GT5, yet, when Turn10 has people vote for which unicorn they want to receive, which cars do they vote for first? The Japanese cars. Seems contradictory, to me. So, you guys WANT Japanese cars...just not so many? Is that the thing? That's understandable. But, then it would seem, that Forza has too few Japanese cars.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that out of the 17 unicorns, 10 are Japanese cars? Or that most people who played FM3 got the 430 Scuderia & Gallardo Superleggera? Maybe even that T10 has given out the Camaro SS multiple times? Or possibly that the rarest to acquire unicorns are the Top Secret Supra, Mine's R34, HKS Evolution, RX-7 Spirit & S204?

This all ignoring the fact that T10 letting people vote for what car they want to receive in the game as a gift has nothing to do with what cars either developer attempts to acquire in the first place.

 

[SuperShouden]

This all ignoring the fact that T10 letting people vote for what car they want to receive in the game as a gift has nothing to do with what cars either developer attempts to acquire in the first place.

I don't understand this sentence. I don't think you read what I posted. Maybe you should try that before responding. I believe I was talking about the preference of the players not the developer. It's like you deliberately took bits and pieces of what I said and turn them into...well, I'm not entirely sure what. But it definitely doesn't really have anything to do with what I said.

 

[McLaren]

I don't understand this sentence. I don't think you read what I posted. Maybe you should try that before responding. I believe I was talking about the preference of the players not the developer. It's like you deliberately took bits and pieces of what I said and turn them into...well, I'm not entirely sure what. But it definitely doesn't really have anything to do with what I said.

I read exactly what you posted. You asked why people complain about GT having too many Japanese cars, then followed it by stating that most people vote to have the Japanese unicorns in Forza as if the 2 topics are anything related, when they aren't.

There is a reason people typically always want the Japanese unicorn cars & it's usually because they are either:
A) The rarest.
B) 2 of the unicorns were given to near every previous FM3 player on release.
C) The Camaro SS has been given away countless times.
D) Over half the unicorns are Japanese, thus the polls will always be predominately Japanese.

If you want to explain why people always complain about too many Japanese cars in GT5's car list in relation to Forza's car list, compare both lists as a whole. Not, GT5's entire list to 10 unattainable cars from Forza.

 

[SuperShouden]

I read exactly what you posted. You asked why people complain about GT having too many Japanese cars, then followed it by stating that most people vote to have the Japanese unicorns in Forza as if the 2 topics are anything related, when they aren't.

There is a reason people typically always want the Japanese unicorn cars & it's usually because they are either:
A) The rarest.
B) 2 of the unicorns were given to near every previous FM3 player on release.
C) The Camaro SS has been given away countless times.
D) Over half the unicorns are Japanese, thus the polls will always be predominately Japanese.

If you want to explain why people always complain about too many Japanese cars in GT5's car list in relation to Forza's car list, compare both lists as a whole. Not, GT5's entire list to 10 unattainable cars from Forza.

Maybe it's because I'm from Washington state and you're from Texas, but I still think there's something lost in translation here. I never asked why people complain about GT5 having too many Japanese cars. ALL my questions were facetious (that is, not serious).

The underlying question was "How many is too many? How many is too few?"

Also, I don't think that voting polls go by "heads-or-tales" rules. If people wanted a non-Japanese car, they could vote for it. I did. But, yes, if everyone had to spin a wheel on which unicorn car to get, then, you're right, it would most likely be a Japanese car...but they don't. Besides, Turn10 just handed out a plethora of Top Secret Supra's to people who participated in the Facebook Challenge #2.

My ENTIRE point was that, to me, it's apparent that there aren't enough Japanese Cars in Forza 4 'cause everyone in those forums keeps asking for more, and there's too many in GT5 because everyone always complains about that.

 

[McLaren]

Maybe it's because I'm from Washington state and you're from Texas, but I still think there's something lost in translation here. I never asked why people complain about GT5 having too many Japanese cars. ALL my questions were facetious (that is, not serious).

The underlying question was "How many is too many? How many is too few?"

I get that. It's the 2 subjects you tried to tie together that don't have anything really to do with your question.

Also, I don't think that voting polls go by "heads-or-tales" rules. If people wanted a non-Japanese car, they could vote for it. I did. But, yes, if everyone had to spin a wheel on which unicorn car to get, then, you're right, it would most likely be a Japanese car...but they don't. Besides, Turn10 just handed out a plethora of Top Secret Supra's to people who participated in the Facebook Challenge #2.

I never stated they couldn't. The fact of the matter is, the Japanese cars typically always won the polls for reasons already listed. What T10 just gave out is irrelevant.

Once more, your entire point was being based on the entire list of Japanese cars in GT5 & 10 Japanese unicorn cars in Forza 4.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

My ENTIRE point was that, to me, it's apparent that there aren't enough Japanese Cars in Forza 4 'cause everyone in those forums keeps asking for more, and there's too many in GT5 because everyone always complains about that.

They're not asking for more. They're asking for predominantly Japanese unicorns because the Japanese unicorns are both a) more rare than the others (Camaro SS and M3 GTR being the most common), and b) the majority of the unicorns (10 versus 7). If I request from PD that I get the Stealth 787B, because I already have the other Stealths (which were easier for anybody in North America to get), does that mean I want more Japanese cars? The strange lack of logic is puzzling here; there is no relation between one and the other.

I can't find the image/stats easily, with either our search or Google's, but people have compared the country representation percentages, and GT's is so ridiculously skewed in favour of Japanese cars, it's obvious where the idea comes from that it has too many. The fact that Japanese models provide PD the easiest opportunity for number-padding duplication probably doesn't help. That said, I'm fairly confident that practice will come to an end with GT6, and that might do something to address the imbalance between countries.

 

[Exorcet]

I can't find the image/stats easily, with either our search or Google's, but people have compared the country representation percentages, and GT's is so ridiculously skewed in favour of Japanese cars, it's obvious where the idea comes from that it has too many.

http://www.forzaplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=54252#post54252

I think the second chart is nearly correct for cars from just about every country. Certainly better than GT.

 

[SuperShouden]

I can't find the image/stats easily, with either our search or Google's, but people have compared the country representation percentages, and GT's is so ridiculously skewed in favour of Japanese cars, it's obvious where the idea comes from that it has too many. The fact that Japanese models provide PD the easiest opportunity for number-padding duplication probably doesn't help. That said, I'm fairly confident that practice will come to an end with GT6, and that might do something to address the imbalance between countries.

What a surprise! A Japanese developer has a preference for Japanese cars. Interesting. Hmm...Oh, and look here, Turn10, an American developer has a preference for American cars. Oh, and if we go to Codemasters and Ubisoft, European developers, they have preferences for European cars. Hmm...ain't that interesting.

I think we've had this discussion before.

 

[Samus]

What a surprise! A Japanese developer has a preference for Japanese cars. Interesting. Hmm...Oh, and look here, Turn10, an American developer has a preference for American cars. Oh, and if we go to Codemasters and Ubisoft, European developers, they have preferences for European cars. Hmm...ain't that interesting.

I think we've had this discussion before.

It isn't as large a bias is the point.

GT5:
Japanese: 62.22%
USA: 9.33%

Forza 4:
USA: 23.12%
Japanese: 20.37%

So clearly PD have a much larger bias than T10 do, theirs is barely existent.

 

[Lock2Lock]

It isn't as large a bias is the point.

GT5:
Japanese: 62.22%
USA: 9.33%

Forza 4:
USA: 23.12%
Japanese: 20.37%

So clearly PD have a much larger bias than T10 do, theirs is barely existent.

I do agree with this 100%

 

[Tornado]

What a surprise! A Japanese developer has a preference for Japanese cars. Interesting. Hmm...Oh, and look here, Turn10, an American developer has a preference for American cars. Oh, and if we go to Codemasters and Ubisoft, European developers, they have preferences for European cars. Hmm...ain't that interesting.

I think we've had this discussion before.

Yes we have. It's been similarly debunked every time it has been stated.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

What a surprise! A Japanese developer has a preference for Japanese cars. Interesting. Hmm...Oh, and look here, Turn10, an American developer has a preference for American cars. Oh, and if we go to Codemasters and Ubisoft, European developers, they have preferences for European cars. Hmm...ain't that interesting.

I think we've had this discussion before.

We have. Maybe this time you'll listen to others, like the example Exorcet posted.

You still haven't explained your... Unique bit of logic about the unicorns, either.

 

[Lock2Lock]

We have. Maybe this time you'll listen to others, like the example Exorcet posted.

You still haven't explained your... Unique bit of logic about the unicorns, either.

I feel bad for you sometimes bro

I bet your job on here gets hard and annoying when you have to deal with things like this. Thumbs up for your help on this Site

 

[SuperShouden]

We have. Maybe this time you'll listen to others, like the example Exorcet posted.

You still haven't explained your... Unique bit of logic about the unicorns, either.

I am listening to others. I understand that PD has a LOT more Japanese cars than American cars. I'm not saying they don't. I also understand that Turn10 has a much more balanced game. Still leaning towards the American biased side, and if it weren't for the 35 Chevy's or however many it is, it be more balanced.

And, really? I didn't explain my thinking? Really? 'Cause I could've sworn I did. Maybe you didn't read my post again. Let me show you what I said:

You people are arguing "Well, of course it's going to be a Japanese car, most of the unicorns are Japanese." And while it's true that most of the unicorns in Forza Horizon and 4 are Japanese. Turn10 uses a POLLLLLLLLLL. You know one of those things people can go and vote on stuff. I know with recent global events voting isn't that popular, so you guys might have forgotten about polls, but they do exist. If it were a random drawing, then yes, it'd most likely be a Japanese car. But when 4 million players have a chance to vote on which car they want, it's stops being a random thing, don't it? It's then "what does the majority want?" The top two votes for the FB Challenge 2 car were Japanese.

By your rules Obama had a 50/50 chance of becoming President again. Which isn't true, because when you have a voting system, the percentages are different and they can be changed and influenced.

So, in summary, in case you don't read everything above this:

A poll isn't random. Turn10 uses a Poll to determine which car to award for the Facebook Challenges. The majority of people in the FM.net forums tend to vote for the Japanese cars.

(I'd also like to point out:

Forza Horizon:
US Cars - 27%
Japanese Cars - 16%

Not as bad as GT5, but getting closer. But...you see...that's the other issue. As I said, Turn10 is a US developer. They grew up around the American Car Culture, so they put the cars that are popular to AMERICA in the game. The ones that are meaningful to us. PD put the cars that are meaningful to Japan because they're a Japanese company. If you ask me, having 66% of the cars in the game Japanese just means he's REALLY proud of the work his people have done. And America is really a WEIRD car culture. We're proud of the cars we've built, but we'd rather go out and buy a Japanese car that is cheaper, more fuel efficient and last longer, or buy the expensive Italian or German exotic. It's like we're proud of the cars we've built, but we all know the build quality hasn't been that great, but we don't want to admit it. To be perfectly blunt, PD isn't that weird of a game for putting a crap load of Japanese cars in their game because they're Japanese. They should put mostly Japanese cars in there. It's to be expected. Turn10 is actually the weird one for not having a 66% American car ratio in Forza 4.

And it's WEIRD that people complain about the Japanese cars in GT4 and 5 and yet, I've not seen one person in Forza 4 with a lvl 50 Affinity with an American car company. I'm kinda working on Dodge...but I'm American, so I'm also working on Aston Martin and Nissan, too.

And isn't complaining that a Japanese developer put "too many" Japanese cars in their game kinda like going to Japan and saying "There's too many Japanese here." And, I've never heard anyone say GT needs more cars from other regions, just that they have too many Japanese cars. And you know what, it's kind of a stupid complaint if you think about it.

EDIT: Saying GT has too many Japanese cars is kinda like saying there's too many big breasted women in Dead or a Alive.

 

[Com Fox]

I prefer Japanese cars over all the others. 2nd Europe, 3rd Aussie, 4th USA (my opinion).
The reason why Their are more Japanese cars in GT is beacause PD has made to much of the same car (MX-5,Skylines,NSX).
Forza car lineup is Impressive though (especially the LMP and DTM), though I'm dissapointed on the Super GT line up.

 

[Bopop4]

If you ask me, having 66% of the cars in the game Japanese just means he's REALLY proud of the work his people have done. And America is really a WEIRD car culture.

Or it means that they just tried to boost the car count to help sales.
Which is what they did because there is no reason for more than 10 Miata's in a game.

We're proud of the cars we've built, but we'd rather go out and buy a Japanese car that is cheaper, more fuel efficient and last longer, or buy the expensive Italian or German exotic. It's like we're proud of the cars we've built, but we all know the build quality hasn't been that great, but we don't want to admit it.

What? There are tons of great American cars, just look at the new Ford Focus.
And the Japanese haven't even made a proper diesel truck yet.

To be perfectly blunt, PD isn't that weird of a game for putting a crap load of Japanese cars in their game because they're Japanese. They should put mostly Japanese cars in there. It's to be expected. Turn10 is actually the weird one for not having a 66% American car ratio in Forza 4.

Again, it's like that because they went over board on including almost every model of every JDM car ever. It would be like including every available trim option for a Chevy Malibu.
And it's not weird, Forza included the most iconic and popular cars from the world, everything's even. (Mostly, I just want a facelifted 3000GT.)

And it's WEIRD that people complain about the Japanese cars in GT4 and 5 and yet, I've not seen one person in Forza 4 with a lvl 50 Affinity with an American car company. I'm kinda working on Dodge...but I'm American, so I'm also working on Aston Martin and Nissan, too.

I bet there are quite a few people with that achievement.

And isn't complaining that a Japanese developer put "too many" Japanese cars in their game kinda like going to Japan and saying "There's too many Japanese here." And, I've never heard anyone say GT needs more cars from other regions, just that they have too many Japanese cars. And you know what, it's kind of a stupid complaint if you think about it.

...

People have been complaining since GT1 that there has been a lack of non-JDM, look at how many AU cars you get in GT3, 1.
People complain about the JDM focus because it's taking away from getting other cars into the game.

 

[Tornado]

To be perfectly blunt, PD isn't that weird of a game for putting a crap load of Japanese cars in their game because they're Japanese. They should put mostly Japanese cars in there. It's to be expected. Turn10 is actually the weird one for not having a 66% American car ratio in Forza 4.

Oh my god did you seriously just argue that Turn 10 are the ones with skewed priorities for not making their car list overly lopsided.

And isn't complaining that a Japanese developer put "too many" Japanese cars in their game kinda like going to Japan and saying "There's too many Japanese here." And, I've never heard anyone say GT needs more cars from other regions, just that they have too many Japanese cars. And you know what, it's kind of a stupid complaint if you think about it.

No. It's really not. It's hilarious that you tried to make this into a racial argument, though.

EDIT: Saying GT has too many Japanese cars is kinda like saying there's too many big breasted women in Dead or a Alive.

If by that comparison you mean it focuses on that to the detriment of the gameplay, then yes. It's absolutely like saying that.

 

[Luminis]

The underlying question was "How many is too many? How many is too few?"

[...]

My ENTIRE point was that, to me, it's apparent that there aren't enough Japanese Cars in Forza 4 'cause everyone in those forums keeps asking for more, and there's too many in GT5 because everyone always complains about that.

Simple. GT gives you a dozen variations of the same Japanese car. That's when it becomes too much. 98% of people (yeah, I made that number up) probably couldn't care lesser they got a GT-R V-Spec, V-Spec II or V-Spec II Nür in their game.

What a surprise! A Japanese developer has a preference for Japanese cars. Interesting. Hmm...Oh, and look here, Turn10, an American developer has a preference for American cars.

The fact that you're comparing 23% of American cars in Forza's lineup to the 60 percent of Japanese cars in GT5 says a lot. About yourself, that is. If I wanted to crack a joke, I'd say that 23% of GT5's car list consists of Miatas and Skylines alone.

(I'd also like to point out:

Forza Horizon:
US Cars - 27%
Japanese Cars - 16%

Now go and check how many European cars there are and tell me where that "bias" comes from.

And isn't complaining that a Japanese developer put "too many" Japanese cars in their game kinda like going to Japan and saying "There's too many Japanese here." And, I've never heard anyone say GT needs more cars from other regions, just that they have too many Japanese cars. And you know what, it's kind of a stupid complaint if you think about it.

Oh, yeah, if GT was only sold in Japan, sure. The game's gone global, if you haven't realised that by now. A global audience is a tad different from the Japanese one. But PD is probably thinking the same way as you do: "Everyone likes busty women (false), JDM cars are like busty women (false) so everybody likes JDM cars (fals). Oh, and look at the FB polls for FM, they want the Japanese car because they think it's the best (false), so everbody wants JDM cars (false)." There are so many false assumptions in there it's mindboggling. So, yeah, let's just say that one of the two developers got the fact that their game's got a global audience through their heads and the other - well, they didn't. You can argue all you want about it being to be expected and whatnot, PD having a huge bias towards Japanese cars sucks. Simple as that.

In all honestly, it baffles me how you're making up the weirdest and dumbest points I've seen in this thread and try to wiggle your way out of the hole you've been digging yourself. And all of that in an effort to defend PD when they're being criticised for stuff they've obviously messed up. The fanboy's live must be tough, right?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I love this pie chart. It really puts things into perspective.

Forget America. If one country has more cars than all of the other countries combined, something is definitely wrong.

Here's Forza 4:

Look at that. Japanese and German are nearly the same size as American. But how dare T10 put slightly more American cars into Forza 4. I don't think you know what bias means, Shouden.

 

[SuperShouden]

I'm still not seeing anything different in the arguments. It's still "PD is bias towards Japanese cars." And, BTW, you can't complain about PD trying to help out the Japanese car companies when Turn10 is trying to help out GM. I'm not saying the PD isn't bias towards Japanese cars. In fact, I'm saying they are, and it's not that weird. And do you realize how many Japanese developers develop games for a global market and NOT put all shorts of Japanese stuff in their games? One: Nintendo, and even their stuff is still VERY Japanese. Mario may look Italian, but what those Gumbas and flying turtles seem like something out of a Manga and don't get me started on Link and Pokemon.

The Japanese are Japanese, and from what I can tell, they're far more worried about what their own country will think of a game or movie or whatever than the the rest of the world. Kaz is Japanese. He grew up in Japanese car culture. He grew up around Japanese cars. Yes, there's going to be a lot of Japanese cars in GT. It's just how it is. If you don't like it, don't play the game. Simple as that. GT6 is probably going to have crap load of Japanese cars, too. Why? Because PD is a Japanese developer. Sony is a Japanese company and they aren't going to see anything wrong with the game.

And again, Turn10 is still bias towards Chevy...I mean...American cars. And if you don't think they include EVERY trim model....have you seen the Camaros and TransAms in Forza 4? Or what about the 3 CTS-Vs. And aren't there 2 C1 Corvettes? GT has two of them, as well, but at least ones a tuner car.

Different car cultures and money will produce different car lists.

In my personal opinion, I think "there's too many Japanese cars" is a stupid complaint. You don't have to buy the 150 Japanese cars in the game. You could buy 4 of them, if you want.

As for the pie charts, there's still a 3% difference between American and Japanese cars. There's even a 2% difference between American and German. That's still bias towards American. 3% is a lot. It's not "even" until there's 25% American, 25% German 25% Japanese and 25% other. But there's not.

My DOA reference, BTW, wasn't saying that because everyone likes big breasted women they must like Japanese cars, I was saying that 90% of anime has big breasted women. It's a Japanese thing. 99% of Japanese games have big breasted women. It's a Japanese culture thing. Just like the big eyes and the Japanese language. It's all Japanese. All Japanese developers throw a crap load of Japanese culture into their game. PD isn't any different.

 

[Exorcet]

I'm still not seeing anything different in the arguments. It's still "PD is bias towards Japanese cars." And, BTW, you can't complain about PD trying to help out the Japanese car companies when Turn10 is trying to help out GM.

Different worlds. 62% to 23%. And that 20% is basically even with two other countries. I wouldn't even call Forza biased, it just happens to have more US cars.

I'm not saying the PD isn't bias towards Japanese cars. In fact, I'm saying they are, and it's not that weird.

That doesn't mean their decision is best. And they can do a lot better, see Turn 10.

And do you realize how many Japanese developers develop games for a global market and NOT put all shorts of Japanese stuff in their games? One: Nintendo, and even their stuff is still VERY Japanese. Mario may look Italian, but what those Gumbas and flying turtles seem like something out of a Manga and don't get me started on Link and Pokemon.

There aren't real Pokemon to divide by nationality.

The Japanese are Japanese, and from what I can tell, they're far more worried about what their own country will think of a game or movie or whatever than the the rest of the world. Kaz is Japanese. He grew up in Japanese car culture. He grew up around Japanese cars. Yes, there's going to be a lot of Japanese cars in GT. It's just how it is. If you don't like it, don't play the game. Simple as that. GT6 is probably going to have crap load of Japanese cars, too. Why? Because PD is a Japanese developer. Sony is a Japanese company and they aren't going to see anything wrong with the game.

Not a defense. And it's not just how it is. Again, Forza.

And again, Turn10 is still bias towards Chevy...I mean...American cars. And if you don't think they include EVERY trim model....have you seen the Camaros and TransAms in Forza 4? Or what about the 3 CTS-Vs. And aren't there 2 C1 Corvettes? GT has two of them, as well, but at least ones a tuner car.

3 Different CTS-V's (PI 462, 517, 528; different body styles, spanning two generations) vs 3 different names for the Miata, that are all identical, and all have different trims that are basically identical. Forza did different trims right. And then on top of that they have more variety with less cars.

In my personal opinion, I think "there's too many Japanese cars" is a stupid complaint. You don't have to buy the 150 Japanese cars in the game. You could buy 4 of them, if you want.

The complaint is too many JP cars relative to the rest.

As for the pie charts, there's still a 3% difference between American and Japanese cars. There's even a 2% difference between American and German. That's still bias towards American. 3% is a lot. It's not "even" until there's 25% American, 25% German 25% Japanese and 25% other. But there's not.

Not really true. Any one country could just have a wider variety of cars so a perfect 25% split isn't necessarily the most even. However the US and JP are probably close to each other. Europe has the most. Forza reflects this. And with the car list being so even, I can see things like availability playing a factor.

My DOA reference, BTW, wasn't saying that because everyone likes big breasted women they must like Japanese cars, I was saying that 90% of anime has big breasted women. It's a Japanese thing. 99% of Japanese games have big breasted women. It's a Japanese culture thing. Just like the big eyes and the Japanese language. It's all Japanese. All Japanese developers throw a crap load of Japanese culture into their game. PD isn't any different.

OK, add JP culture, but make the car list reasonable. GT isn't an anime.

 

[Bopop4]

What the...

Did you even read ANYTHING that anybody said?!?
Seriously, actually read it.

Kaz is supposed to be making a racing game for the world, hard to do that with the blatant one sidedness he's found in JDM cars.


The Camaro's and Pontiac's are like that because they included an example from each generation, which are completely different cars.


3% difference, are you kidding me? That's nothing, that's about 15 cars worth on FM4.
Meanwhile if you would open your eyes you would see (As pointed out on the pie chart.) that the JDM percentage is greater THAN EVERY OTHER COUNTRY COMBINED.


And maybe you should watch some different anime...

 

[Tornado]

And again, Turn10 is still bias towards Chevy...I mean...American cars. And if you don't think they include EVERY trim model....have you seen the Camaros and TransAms in Forza 4? Or what about the 3 CTS-Vs. And aren't there 2 C1 Corvettes? GT has two of them, as well, but at least ones a tuner car.

The Trans Ams and Camaros are two different cars, with completely different engines (the Trans Am engines didn't even share the same block design), completely different interiors, completely different styling (the 80's Trans Am was one of the most aerodynamic cars available at the time) and completely different everything except the chassis hardpoints. Pontiac rather famously resisted switching to the GM drivetrains used in the Camaro all the way up to the final generation of the cars (which is why Trans Ams dabbled in turbocharging and the like throughout the end of the 1980s while the Camaro just used detuned Corvette engines as early as the mid-70s).

These, on the other hand, are not different:

http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=348
http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=346
http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=350

At all. And I could go on all day before I even get into the Miatas.


Forza does certainly have duplicates. Off the top of my head, there are half a dozen Audi A4 DTM cars for no apparent reason (since they are all fantasy liveries anyway as far as I can tell), and there is little point to the regular first generation Firebird if the Trans Am is already there (though it's still not anything remotely like the S2000s, Miatas, 3000GTs, 350zs, Tiburons, Skylines, BreezeFreeses or Opel/Vauxhalls).

 

[Tornado]

Oops doublepost.

 

[Luminis]

I'm still not seeing anything different in the arguments. It's still "PD is bias towards Japanese cars." And, BTW, you can't complain about PD trying to help out the Japanese car companies when Turn10 is trying to help out GM.

First of, I can very complain about that. Because PD is being biased on a completely different level. There might be a slight bias as far as T10 is compared, but that's a huge way off of PD.

If you're unable to understand the difference between "23% biased" and "63% biased", I'd have to say that I'm just wasting my team here because you're either way to daft to get a thing someone's telling you in here, or so caught up in your fanboyism that you're talking BS because of that.

I'm not saying the PD isn't bias towards Japanese cars. In fact, I'm saying they are, and it's not that weird. And do you realize how many Japanese developers develop games for a global market and NOT put all shorts of Japanese stuff in their games? One: Nintendo, and even their stuff is still VERY Japanese. Mario may look Italian, but what those Gumbas and flying turtles seem like something out of a Manga and don't get me started on Link and Pokemon.

And rape is daily routine in Somalia. Can't complain about that, either, huh?

The Japanese are Japanese, and from what I can tell, they're far more worried about what their own country will think of a game or movie or whatever than the the rest of the world. Kaz is Japanese. He grew up in Japanese car culture. He grew up around Japanese cars.

So, what you're saying is, it's all Kaz's fault for being racist/nationalist? Hey, for all I care, replace him.

Yes, there's going to be a lot of Japanese cars in GT. It's just how it is. If you don't like it, don't play the game. Simple as that.

Don't worry, I, for one, won't. I'd love to like the next GT game, though. That's why I'd like to see things change for the better.

GT6 is probably going to have crap load of Japanese cars, too. Why? Because PD is a Japanese developer. Sony is a Japanese company and they aren't going to see anything wrong with the game.

I doubt anyone would give a rat's ass if they were biased towards Japanese cars on the same level as T10 is biased to American ones. I, for one, would be perfectly fine with 23% JDM cars in GT. But it's almost two thirds of the entire car roster that's Japanese. Not that you'd get that, I suppose.

And again, Turn10 is still bias towards Chevy...I mean...American cars. And if you don't think they include EVERY trim model....have you seen the Camaros and TransAms in Forza 4? Or what about the 3 CTS-Vs. And aren't there 2 C1 Corvettes? GT has two of them, as well, but at least ones a tuner car.

You're not honestly willing to compare the padding PD have done with the plethora of Skylines, NSXs, Miatas, RX-7S and so one with what T10's doing, are you? Besides, as for the CTS-Vs: One's an older generation model, one's the saloon, one's the coupe. That's quite a bit different from having a V-Spec, V-Spec II Nür and M-Spec of the same generation of Skyline. Oh, and a GTS-T.

Different car cultures and money will produce different car lists.

Yeah, and one coudl do with some improvement. What's the big deal with that?

In my personal opinion, I think "there's too many Japanese cars" is a stupid complaint. You don't have to buy the 150 Japanese cars in the game. You could buy 4 of them, if you want.

Hurr, durr. Has it occured to you that the problem with that is that PD could, dunno, put other cars in if they weren't stuffing the game with Japanese stuff?

As for the pie charts, there's still a 3% difference between American and Japanese cars. There's even a 2% difference between American and German. That's still bias towards American. 3% is a lot. It's not "even" until there's 25% American, 25% German 25% Japanese and 25% other. But there's not.

Difference between USDM and JDM cars in FM4: 2.75%. Difference between USDM and JDM cars in GT5: 51.9%. How thick does one have to be do not acknowledge such a difference? Honestly, how the hell can you even compare that, in the slightest?!

Look, 2.75 is a small number. 51.9 is abig number. Small number = good. Big number = bad. Is that too hard to fathom for you? Here, let's do it graphically.

...

vs.

....................................................

See the difference yet?

My DOA reference, BTW, wasn't saying that because everyone likes big breasted women they must like Japanese cars, I was saying that 90% of anime has big breasted women. It's a Japanese thing. 99% of Japanese games have big breasted women. It's a Japanese culture thing. Just like the big eyes and the Japanese language. It's all Japanese. All Japanese developers throw a crap load of Japanese culture into their game. PD isn't any different.

There's a difference between "Japanese culture" and a mostly Japanese car list. Assuming that that isn't too diffofficult for you to grasp, that is. The crapload of grinding, which lots of asian games feature, that's something I'd excuse with the Japanese roots of the game. But the car list? Not really.

Anyways, guess I should do what I've done for a while now and keep out of this thread. I really can't take that much ******** without getting properly annoyed.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Sorry @SuperShouden, but I agree with everyone else in this thread. FM4's car list is BY FAR the best, better than GT5's ridiculous duplicate cars which is sooo annoying and everybody knows that...

Sure FM4 has a few american cars yes, but AT LEAST Turn 10 didn't go makin duplicates out of them, unlike GT5 which has. I love GT but I will certainly not allow myself to defend anything like this Kaz has going on and needs to get over.

 

[Com Fox]

I also have a feeling GT is biased towards Nissan then anything else, seriously. Forza seems more fair to the cars while GT go off making more Skylines, GTRs, Zs and Silvias. The PP system is also biased towards Nissan saying the GT-Rs are the best GT500 but they keep on losing to Honda in every race I do.
PD is great for there physics however it is biased.

Also you can divide Pokemon by region .

 

[Scaff]

I have to be honest I understood the massive Japanese bias to the GT series back in the original GT and GT2. The first title was an unknown and PD/Sony didn't have a clue how it was going to do and struggles to get co-operation from the automotive world outside of Japan. With the second title they certainly got a much greater level of co-operation, but GT2 heavily re-used assets from the original so the bias was always going to be large.

However past that point they had to re-do all the assets and had every opportunity to re-dress that issue and put a much more balanced car list together, particularly given that this is a global product by this point with the bulk of its sales coming from the US and Europe. For whatever reason PD have not done that and continued with a product that is massively biased towards one region in terms of the car list, with no evidence that they want to change that approach.

To try and say this is normal for a global product and brand is utterly ridiculous. That PD and Sony are Japanese companies is a totally moot point, this is a global product with the vast bulk of its sales outside of Japan and as such should be aiming for as balanced an approach as it can.

Like it or not that is exactly what T1o are aiming for with Forza, which is why the bulk of people (regardless of which side they come down on in the Forza/GT discussion) seem to favour T10's approach.

 

[KinLM]

I have to be honest I understood the massive Japanese bias to the GT series back in the original GT and GT2. The first title was an unknown and PD/Sony didn't have a clue how it was going to do and struggles to get co-operation from the automotive world outside of Japan. With the second title they certainly got a much greater level of co-operation, but GT2 heavily re-used assets from the original so the bias was always going to be large.

However past that point they had to re-do all the assets and had every opportunity to re-dress that issue and put a much more balanced car list together, particularly given that this is a global product by this point with the bulk of its sales coming from the US and Europe. For whatever reason PD have not done that and continued with a product that is massively biased towards one region in terms of the car list, with no evidence that they want to change that approach.

To try and say this is normal for a global product and brand is utterly ridiculous. That PD and Sony are Japanese companies is a totally moot point, this is a global product with the vast bulk of its sales outside of Japan and as such should be aiming for as balanced an approach as it can.

Like it or not that is exactly what T1o are aiming for with Forza, which is why the bulk of people (regardless of which side they come down on in the Forza/GT discussion) seem to favour T10's approach.

I believe Famine posted a while ago a list of percentages of where all the cars were from. And in every version of GT, the Japanese percentage goes down, while the percentages from Europe, USA, and the rest of the world steadily go up.

To say that it isn't still heavily biased towards Japan would be incorrect. But to say that PD aren't trying to at least lessen this bias is also not true.