FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[cuco33]

It's videogame history.

Read:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3w...n&sa=X&ei=YiL_UOGhF4qU0QXh54DwDA&redir_esc=y#
.

Lol
You do know that Nissan has been trying to get the Skyline GTR into the USA since as far back as the R32 GTR right? A car launched before GT1 even existed!
Also the Subaru Impreza was sold here for years before GT1 was even on the store shelves. The Mitsubishi Mirage (pre Lancer model) was sold here, but before 97/98 the Eclipse was the hot Mitsubishi 4cyl turbo of the day.

The only thing you are right about is that PD has strong ties with the auto industry but they arent the only ones.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, why you always convert even the simple sentence in a tired disussión and a word by word interrogatory?

Because its a discussion forum and maybe you find its 'tired' simply because I don't always agree with you or take what you say at face value.

I can take the time to search for facts and answer all that, the replies and then all the new non related questions that I'm sure you will make but I'm not going to enter in that game. I don't have the time neither the interest to change your thoughts.

Its not a game its a discussion, if you are not willing to support or discuss your claims then that is your issue.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Lol
You do know that Nissan has been trying to get the Skyline GTR into the USA since as far back as the R32 GTR right? A car launched before GT1 even existed!
Also the Subaru Impreza was sold here for years before GT1 was even on the store shelves. The Mitsubishi Mirage (pre Lancer model) was sold here, but before 97/98 the Eclipse was the hot Mitsubishi 4cyl turbo of the day.

The only thing you are right about is that PD has strong ties with the auto industry but they arent the only ones.

I think the claim is that GT's high visibility (especially in the ever-important young demographics) made, at least in part, household names of the GT-R, WRX (and STI), and Evo. Prior to the game's release, Subaru had no real performance credentials in North America, and Nissan only had the 300ZX and the truck-engined S14. Of course, there's no way to prove that GT itself is the leading cause for the increased demand and subsequent popularity of cars like the three AWD missiles I mentioned - any half-decent UK/Euro car mag back then had a ton to say about them, and there was WRC for the non-Nissans - but since the internet was not nearly as common then as it is now, GT was arguably one of the first contact points for a lot of people. Hell, I had never heard of TVR until the GT series, nor RUF and Venturi.

It'd be silly to claim that GT is the sole reason behind these cars' prominence in the North American auto enthusiast psyche, but it's almost equally important to dismiss the games' influence entirely.

 

[McLaren]

In my opinion, the tie breaker is the impact GT has had on the car community. If it wasn't for GT, we wouldn't have had the Impreza, Skyline or Lancer in the US. Heck, truth be told, if it weren't for GT we wouldn't have Forza. Need For Speed would have still been the standard. Although, Sports Car GT was pretty sweet. Anyways, off to play a little Forza 4 before getting this day started.

While this is a common thought, it's not completely true.

We already had the Lancer released in the US in 2001 as a Mirage replacement instead of anything to do with Gran Turismo. And the Impreza was released here before GT1 was even released.

As far as the WRX goes, yes, that was due to the petitions. But, the Evolution only followed because Mitsubishi saw the sales success with the WRX. And while you could argue that GT was indirectly involved in bringing the Evo here b/c it brought the WRX here, keep in mind it took 3 years of sales to convince Mitsubishi to do so; there was no other reason listed for Mitsubishi to bring the car here when, esp. when the WRX was not even a direct competitor.

The Skyline is a bit irrelevant since it was never sold here legally & it was the R34 GT-R that received the praise, not the actual Skyline family that people to this day, don't really give much thought to outside of the Infiniti G35/37 being a USDM one.

 

[Com Fox]

I don't get why americans rarely get cars from Japan (not talking about Acura's or other USA versions), while Australians (like me) get them more easily.

 

[cuco33]

I think the claim is that GT's high visibility (especially in the ever-important young demographics) made, at least in part, household names of the GT-R, WRX (and STI), and Evo. Prior to the game's release, Subaru had no real performance credentials in North America, and Nissan only had the 300ZX and the truck-engined S14. Of course, there's no way to prove that GT itself is the leading cause for the increased demand and subsequent popularity of cars like the three AWD missiles I mentioned - any half-decent UK/Euro car mag back then had a ton to say about them, and there was WRC for the non-Nissans - but since the internet was not nearly as common then as it is now, GT was arguably one of the first contact points for a lot of people. Hell, I had never heard of TVR until the GT series, nor RUF and Venturi.

It'd be silly to claim that GT is the sole reason behind these cars' prominence in the North American auto enthusiast psyche, but it's almost equally important to dismiss the games' influence entirely.

I grew a bigger appreciation for the Skyline because of GT games but it wasn't the sole reason i dug the car. Zero claimed because of GT the US got the Skyline, the Lancer and the Impreza when those cars already existed here or the manufacturer was trying to bring that model here, even going as far as providing a link to a book about cars in GT. That is what I was replying to, the silliness from zero.
I think the famous WRC battle between the WRX and EVO made Impreza and Lancer ca4s far more popular than any GT game ever did. Just my 2 cents.. and to be honest I really do not mind at all if some people learn about cars or certain car models from a video game. I think it is a great medium to use for any generation. Cant tell you enough how many times I have used racers as a show and tell assistant when talking to friends about a specific car. I am a car nut and know a lot more than most of my friends though.

 

[McLaren]

I don't get why americans rarely get cars from Japan (not talking about Acura's or other USA versions), while Australians (like me) get them more easily.

The regulations here are pretty strict & sometimes, there just isn't a market for the cars to justify the costs to meet said regulations.

 

[buickgnx88]

I don't get why americans rarely get cars from Japan (not talking about Acura's or other USA versions), while Australians (like me) get them more easily.

It sort of also helps that both countries are RHD, versus the US which is LHD.

 

[SuperShouden]

From the physics thread:



That depends on what you compare the sales figures to. If its GT5 then no the FM series will not reach those levels, however if you compare it to any other racing title then its sales figures are more than good enough.

Even in comparison to GT its hideously difficult to even start to see if Forza is closing the gap or not, given the differing release cycles the two series have.

However just for fun we can given it a go.

In terms of raw units (to date):
FM2 - 3.99 million
FM3 - 5.33 million
FM4 - 3.88 million

GT5 - 4.11 million
GT5 - 8.65 million


Now if you compare single titles then yes GT has them beaten, however if you look at combined sales on the current gen platforms then its a lot closer:
GT5 and GT5 combined levels = 12.76 million
FM2, 3 & 4 combined levels = 13.2 million

Add in 'side' titles such as Horizon (1.12 million) and GTSP (2.91 million) and we get:

Forza - 14.32 million
Gran Turismo - 15,67 million

I'd say those figures make future titles for both series look like a good investment for Sony and MS respectively. Nor do I think you can say what ever MS's sales plan was for Forza, that it didn't work. No other sim series has even got even close to the sales of GT and for that alone its certainly worked.

Yes, 'cause comparing 3 from one series to one and a half of another is fair. If anything, that says that Forza is selling so poorly it takes 3 of their games to match the sales of one of GT's.

Also, where'd you get your sales for Forza? You could update the Wiki one best selling video game franchises 'cause Forza's not on there, and they should be if they sold 14 million units. (still not as impressive as GT's 68 million, but impressive nonetheless.)

 

[McLaren]

Yes, 'cause comparing 3 from one series to one and a half of another is fair. If anything, that says that Forza is selling so poorly it takes 3 of their games to match the sales of one of GT's.

He's comparing FM2-FM4 to GT5-GT5 because all those games were released in the same time frame.

Also, where'd you get your sales for Forza? You could update the Wiki one best selling video game franchises 'cause Forza's not on there, and they should be if they sold 14 million units. (still not as impressive as GT's 68 million, but impressive nonetheless.)

So wait, it's not fair to compare the sales of "3 from one series to one and a half of another", but it's fine to compare the overall sales when 1 series has an 8 year start & 4 games released before hand (not counting the 3 GTC titles & GT4 which added close to 3 million sales alone)?

 

[thelvynau]

He's comparing FM2-FM4 to GT5-GT5 because all those games were released in the same time frame.

So wait, it's not fair to compare the sales of "3 from one series to one and a half of another", but it's fine to compare the overall sales when 1 series has an 8 year start & 4 games released before hand?

Why not compare the first 4 gt's to the first 4 forzas?

 

[McLaren]

Why not compare the first 4 gt's to the first 4 forzas?

Why would you in the first place?

If your competitor doesn't have a game on the market yet, let alone, isn't even established, of course you're going to rake in the sales.

 

[thelvynau]

Why would you in the first place?

If your competitor doesn't have a game on the market yet, let alone, isn't even established, of course you're going to rake in the sales.

I actually wasnt serious not sure why I even suggested that.

 

[Com Fox]

Sales doesn't make a popular game.

 

[thelvynau]

Sales doesn't make a popular game.

How wouldnt sales show a popular game?

If its popular then more people would be buying it.

If its no rt popular people wouldnt buy it.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

How wouldnt sales show a popular game?

If its popular then more people would be buying it.

If its no rt popular people wouldnt buy it.

So popular = good?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Would something bad can ever be popular to rake up high number of sales in millions within a couple of years ? It must be good enough to be that popular and making those sales number.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

Would something bad can ever be popular to rake up high number of sales in millions within a couple of years ? It must be good enough to be that popular and making those sales number.

Call of Duty....?

Edit:as or like every Wii game ever
Games that sell well are not necessarily 'good', they just appeal to a wide crowd. You could have the best flight sim ever and still only sell it to flight sim fans...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Call of Duty....?

It's good to those who bought it ( COD fan and FPS gamers ), and the game ( COD ) keeps making good sales in every iteration ( publisher ), it's good enough to continue to be made. Those who dislikes it would say it's bad and stale game. It's all in perspective ... but the market says popular, should I call it bad if I don't like it ? Maybe I should.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

See my edit above.

It's all in perspective ... but the market says popular, should I call it bad if I don't like it ? Maybe I should.

This is really the heart of it: Good is different to different people. That's why I don't see how sales are relevant in a discussion like this; just because people buy something doesn't mean that I think it's good, it means those people did.

 

[thelvynau]

See my edit above.

This is really the heart of it: Good is different to different people. That's why I don't see how sales are relevant in a discussion like this; just because people buy something doesn't mean that I think it's good, it means those people did.

So if for example when gta 5 comes out and sells better than saints row the third would you say that gta 5 isnt popular because of sales?

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

So if for example when gta 5 comes out and sells better than saints row the third would you say that gta 5 isnt popular because of sales?

No, I would say it is more popular. If it sells more, especially multiplatform, obviously its more popular, but as I said, I don't feel that more popular = better. Since I've never played SR3 I can't really say for myself.

Either way, this is getting off-topic. The topic of sales has been beaten to death several times in this thread already, and it never goes anywhere other than eventually degenerating into flaming & requiring Scaff to lay down the law

 

[thelvynau]

No, I would say it is more popular. If it sells more, especially multiplatform, obviously its more popular, but as I said, I don't feel that more popular = better. Since I've never played SR3 I can't really say for myself.

Either way, this is getting off-topic. The topic of sales has been beaten to death several times in this thread already, and it never goes anywhere other than eventually degenerating into flaming & requiring Scaff to lay down the law

Lol fair enough your right back to the topic at hand.

 

[Com Fox]

I was ment to say good sales doesn't mean a popular and better game.
Also if thats the case then Solitaire is the populist game ever as it is on almost everyones computer, PS2 is better then PS3, and Call Of Duty is better the GT.

 

[thelvynau]

I was ment to say good sales doesn't mean a popular and better game.
Also if thats the case then Solitaire is the populist game ever as it is on almost everyones computer, PS2 is better then PS3, and Call Of Duty is better the GT.

Maybe they are?

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

I was ment to say good sales doesn't mean a popular and better game.
Also if thats the case then Solitaire is the populist game ever as it is on almost everyones computer, PS2 is better then PS3, and Call Of Duty is better the GT.

Yeah, exactly. More sales =\= better game, that's what I've been saying this whole time, and it looks like its what you were saying too 👍


Cause otherwise Titanic would be the best movie ever

 

[Com Fox]

It is better judge a popular game by a survey then sales

 

[Com Fox]

Yeah, exactly. More sales =\= better game, that's what I've been saying this whole time, and it looks like its what you were saying too 👍


Cause otherwise Titanic would be the best movie ever

I was being sarcastic.

 

[thelvynau]

Im stepping out of this topic now this thread goes off topic too much.

 

[Com Fox]

Im stepping out of this topic now this thread goes off topic too much.

I think i got carried away sorry.