FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Com Fox]

I just see rejection to the ruf.
If I made a driving similator series i wouldn't use porsche no matter if 1 000 000 people want it until EA stops hogging it.

This getting out of topic lets stop this argument about EA ruf and Porsche.

 

[Scaff]

Two things:

1. I can tell Turn10 didn't spend as much time on some cars as it did others because the interior sounds on a LOT of cars are the same as the exterior sounds. Granted, in some cars, that might be accurate, but when ALL the BMWs I've driven only have very slightly muffled exterior noise sounds, it gets into the stupid. Even GT at least muffled the engine noises more than an decibel or two. It makes no sense.

Now GT does a number of things well with sound, they allow the use of LPCM (which the 360 can't handle) and the spacial placement of sounds on replays is noticeably better. However one I personally would not give them is that they mute what are poor initial sounds more from an interior view. Oddly GT sounds a lot more like the interior sounds should do (volume level aside) from the chase cam.

Also in reality interior sounds in comparison to exterior sounds differ in a lot more ways that just volume (muting), the entire eq of the sound would need to be adjusted as the NVH team for a manufacture will work to amplify those sounds they find desirable and isolate and remove those they don't, and its a lot more then that just engine sound.

2. The Prius. So, in GT, if you fully tune the Prius, they take out the batteries and you have a pretty decent sounding race car. In Forza....they keep the batteries in and you have a car that sounds like a snowblower. Yippie. I would LOVE it if FM5 allowed you to remove the batteries from the Hybrids. It reduces the weight, and gets rid of crappy engine noises.

Are you aware that one of the only race variants of the Prius was a hybrid and retained its batteries?

http://picasaweb.google.com/maslankajerzy/ToyotaPriusRallyCar

The modifications in FM4 are also hybrid related (i.e. the actually improve the type of battery and electric motors used) and do effect the weight of the car. To the best of my knowledge modifications in GT5 (aside from weight reduction and balast ones) have no effect on the weight of the car.

So aside from matching the real cars race history, having electric specific mods and affecting weight, how was it that FM4 was being unrealistic here?

That said, Porsche didn't renew their exclusive license with EA.

Do you have a link to confirm that?

This getting out of topic lets stop this argument about EA ruf and Porsche.

It is an on-topic, as the other threads on it are either GT or FM specific, so this one will do just fine to talk about the impact and difference it makes to both titles.

From my point of view I'm glad that FM4 has both in it, as I would not want to trade one for the other in an ideal world, and I'm fairly certain that most GT players would be more than happy to pay for a Porsche pack alone the lines of the one FM4 got.

I mean to say you pick:

 

[Com Fox]

I love Porsches' alot but i'm not that desperate to fork money over.

 

[Luminis]

Ah, I stand corrected then. Memory of that was a bit fuzzy, thanks.

No problem I had to look the numbers up myself, by the way. I'm just sneaky like that

I love Porsches' alot but i'm not that desperate to fork money over.

The Porsche Pack was, in my opinion, one of the best additions to FM4, content wise. At least if one bought it for 800 MSP while it was on sale. I'd actually love it if they added events with every car pack like that. They're all sponsored by someone, so some events in tthe spirit of that sponsor would work. But I digress.

On Porsche vs. RUF: I like me some RUFs, that's for sure. But they just can't replace cars like the GT1, the GT3 RSR or the 917.

 

[Com Fox]

I prefer Porsches' over ruf, I didn't say i prefer ruf.
911 GT3 RS is my favourite one out of all the both but it's EA I wouldn't do stuff for them other then buy there games.

 

[Luminis]

Well, boykotting EA by not buying their games until they change their practices regarding exclusive licenses would be the best way to show 'em

 

[Com Fox]

Your maybe right.

 

[Tornado]

Carrying over from this thread:

So by better looking you mean more accurately modeled?

Yes. I would say that the GT5 car is the more accurately modeled of the two, Standard or not. Even in regards to interior, the Forza interior is so poorly done that it's basically useless as a thing to say it has over GT5's version.

 

[Scaff]

Carrying over from this thread:



Yes. I would say that the GT5 car is the more accurately modeled of the two, Standard or not. Even in regards to interior, the Forza interior is so poorly done that it's basically useless as a thing to say it has over GT5's version.

Thought as much and while I would agree that a poorly modeled interior is as bad as no interior it is a single car and most (not all) of the FM4 interiors are well done.

 

[Bigbazz]

In defense of FM4, some of the GT5 interiors are poorly done too. I did 3 races earlier today on GT5 after a whole day of FM4 yesterday, the cars I chose (in GT5) were the Alfa Romeo 8C (as used in the special event road rally at eiger norwand) the Mercedes Gulwing (Nurburgring special event) and the 2008 Honda Civic Type R.

Of all 3 of those cars all three of them had visible flaws or very unclear dials in the car. Though I drove a few cars after that with exceptionally well done cockpits (some Ferrari's, and the new Corvette C7), there are inconsistancies. In FM4 I didn't notice any badly done cockpits in the cars that I drove.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Unclear dials in GT5 is mainly due to viewing distance in game for certain cars, pause it, change the view to zoom or extra zoom, the dials should be clear now.

I don't think both games can recreate the interior at exact 1:1 to real life, but at least we can see and say wow, this feels like inside the real car, I can see the dashboard details, the surface finish, the seats, the shape and arrangement of buttons + dials + everything else are alike. Those are what I feel on GT5.

 

[Luminis]

Carrying over from this thread:



Yes. I would say that the GT5 car is the more accurately modeled of the two, Standard or not. Even in regards to interior, the Forza interior is so poorly done that it's basically useless as a thing to say it has over GT5's version.

Just out of curiousity, which car are you on about? The C4 Vette?

 

[cuco33]

There are so many standard gt5 cars that I wish were premium, really irks me why even bother.. I am glad PD upgraded the game to have a cockpit view (blacked out is a joke) and wheels (real shame I cant put the iconic BBS RS on a mk1 VW Rabbit GTI though) but a bigger issue is the modes/features that differ from premiums. It makes the black eye bigger to me.

With that said Forza car models aren't perfect. The VW Corrado doesnt look particularly bad but the Oettinger aero kit just looks wrong. The front grill has a squished VW emblem but the real Oetty kit has an Oetty badge. Just looks bad! And sadly this same issue is carried over into Forza Horizon, and this is the starting car you have in that game. Not the only car or aero kit that looks wrong but personally I would much rather have every car treated to the same standard than the split that PD did with GT5. Had it been any other developer who did a premium x standard split in content quality and features, the dev would be flacked like no other. I just dont get hoe some people blindly defend PD for this practice. And I seriously hope that GT6 has all cars premium only.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

The bottom line is that neither game does anything perfect. However, I hope that ongoing competition between the two will make both franchises get better and better, to the benefit of us, the consumer.

 

[Com Fox]

Would be awesome if they merge like the ALMS and Rolex Sport Car Series to make an awesome car sim.
Speaking of the sport car series, I'm still waiting for one of them to put Daytona Prototypes in, PD and turn 10.

 

[SuperShouden]

In my opinion, the tie breaker is the impact GT has had on the car community. If it wasn't for GT, we wouldn't have had the Impreza, Skyline or Lancer in the US. Heck, truth be told, if it weren't for GT we wouldn't have Forza. Need For Speed would have still been the standard. Although, Sports Car GT was pretty sweet. Anyways, off to play a little Forza 4 before getting this day started.

 

[Bopop4]

Would be awesome if they merge like the ALMS and Rolex Sport Car Series to make an awesome car sim.
Speaking of the sport car series, I'm still waiting for one of them to put Daytona Prototypes in, PD and turn 10.

That will never happen, it would be like Sony and Microsoft partnering up to release a system.

On the topic of cockpits, it would be nice to be able to install aftermarket gauges. I sometimes like to turn all of the HUD off, and if I'm in a highly tuned car, then I can't see the RPM as it goes up against the stop.
(You can get used to the sound and use that ti shift instead, but it would be nice so that you wouldn't have to take time to learn it. And the HKS Evo doesn't even have a tach...)

 

[Com Fox]

I know but with that said.

Why can't MS, Sony and Nintendo merge, stop all this war and make the best console.

 

[wolfsburgraz]

I know but with that said.

Why can't MS, Sony and Nintendo merge, stop all this war and make the best console.

I'm glad they don't, lack of competition breeds complacency and laziness (as is apparent through many discussions time and time again in this thread). 👍

 

[Com Fox]

Well if you go to my school you'll either;
a. Wish they can merge
b. Get annoyed by there silly talks about MS being for real gamers while the rest suck.
I see what you say about competition but it is that, that we suffer from EA's exclusive licences and no porsches as well as taking developers off local multiplayer.

 

[Scaff]

From the physics thread:

Come on... autobrake, rewind, arcade steering option, kinect steering, etc

FM4 is the most accessible Simulator ever made. They were seeking additional sales expanding their game to arcade players and kids but it didn't work.

That depends on what you compare the sales figures to. If its GT5 then no the FM series will not reach those levels, however if you compare it to any other racing title then its sales figures are more than good enough.

Even in comparison to GT its hideously difficult to even start to see if Forza is closing the gap or not, given the differing release cycles the two series have.

However just for fun we can given it a go.

In terms of raw units (to date):
FM2 - 3.99 million
FM3 - 5.33 million
FM4 - 3.88 million

GT5 - 4.11 million
GT5 - 8.65 million


Now if you compare single titles then yes GT has them beaten, however if you look at combined sales on the current gen platforms then its a lot closer:
GT5 and GT5 combined levels = 12.76 million
FM2, 3 & 4 combined levels = 13.2 million

Add in 'side' titles such as Horizon (1.12 million) and GTSP (2.91 million) and we get:

Forza - 14.32 million
Gran Turismo - 15,67 million

I'd say those figures make future titles for both series look like a good investment for Sony and MS respectively. Nor do I think you can say what ever MS's sales plan was for Forza, that it didn't work. No other sim series has even got even close to the sales of GT and for that alone its certainly worked.

 

[Zer0]

Scaff I was not discussing sales just the excuse given by shved111 for the low numbers of FM4, even to FM3.

Such sales fm4 low, possibly due to too complex for most players Physics

Anyway I don't know about those FM numbers but your GT ones are outdated.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue: 5,350,000
Gran Turismo PSP: 3,860,000
Gran Turismo 5: 9,190,000

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-series-tops-68-million-copies-sold/

 

[Scaff]

Scaff I was not discussing sales just the excuse given by shved111 for the low numbers of FM4, even to FM3.

Anyway I don't know about those FM numbers but your GT ones are outdated.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue: 5,350,000
Gran Turismo PSP: 3,860,000
Gran Turismo 5: 9,190,000

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-series-tops-68-million-copies-sold/

I used the same source (VG Chartz) for all the figures for the sake of consistency and as such the FM one could well be understated as well, not that it changes the core point I was making.

Also if you consider 3.88 million low numbers for a console exclusive sim racer you have a rather odd definition of low. Aside from the GT series can you cite another sim racer than has done better on a single platform?

 

[Luminis]

Sales = quality. Good golly miss molly, I learned something new today!

b. Get annoyed by there silly talks about MS being for real gamers while the rest suck.

Ignore them. They're the ones missing out by basing their decision solely on the console's manufacturer. Either that, or, well...

PC Master Race, you know.

 

[Zer0]

I used the same source (VG Chartz) for all the figures for the sake of consistency and as such the FM one could well be understated as well, not that it changes the core point I was making.

Also if you consider 3.88 million low numbers for a console exclusive sim racer you have a rather odd definition of low. Aside from the GT series can you cite another sim racer than has done better on a single platform?

Again I was not discussing sales, just the physics related excuse given by shved111 as the cause. You should discuss the "low" word with him. I didn't even thought of GT5, only the previous FM3 sales and how the inclusion of kinect should have pushed them. But not.

VG Chartz is banned from most of the serious game sites and forums for a reason.

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthrea...ils-VGCHARTZ?p=2910161&viewfull=1#post2910161

 

[cuco33]

Would be awesome if they merge like the ALMS and Rolex Sport Car Series to make an awesome car sim.
Speaking of the sport car series, I'm still waiting for one of them to put Daytona Prototypes in, PD and turn 10.

Since ALMS and Grand Am recently merged, I could see Daytona Prototypes in the next Forza game as Forza tends to side with Le Mans series (FM4 had ALMS sponsorship). I would really welcome it.

In my opinion, the tie breaker is the impact GT has had on the car community. If it wasn't for GT, we wouldn't have had the Impreza, Skyline or Lancer in the US. Heck, truth be told, if it weren't for GT we wouldn't have Forza. Need For Speed would have still been the standard. Although, Sports Car GT was pretty sweet. Anyways, off to play a little Forza 4 before getting this day started.

You honestly think Imprezas, Lancers and the GTR came to the states because of a GT game?!?
First I ever heard of this!!


In regards to the sales talk, GT will always outsell Forza. Note though that these sales figures are mostly shipped to retailers, usually include console pack ins, and any variation will boost the numbers up. To me GT and Forza games still sell very well and if anyone thinks selling 2, 3 or more million is low, they should consider putting the koolaid down.
Sales also doesn't equate to quality.

 

[Com Fox]

I've made a forum about DP if you want to check it out.

 

[Scaff]

Again I was not discussing sales, just the physics related excuse given by shved111 as the cause.

You were both discussing sales.

You should discuss the "low" word with him.

Why him alone - did you not imply it? What else did you mean when you said that 'it didn't work'?

I didn't even thought of GT5, only the previous FM3 sales and how the inclusion of kinect should have pushed them. But not.

Could you please provide a source for how Kinect was going to push FM4 sales in any significant manner. Kinect got included for pretty much the same reason that GT5 got pushed to include 3D, the parent company wanted it, did GT5 only get a sales push because of that? Of course not.

Quite frankly given that its the third full release on the same platform I would say FM4's figures are impressive by just about any measure.

VG Chartz is banned from most of the serious game sites and forums for a reason.

So you dispute the broad figures given?

 

[Zer0]

You honestly think Imprezas, Lancers and the GTR came to the states because of a GT game?!?
First I ever heard of this!!

It's videogame history.

Read:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3w...n&sa=X&ei=YiL_UOGhF4qU0QXh54DwDA&redir_esc=y#


Scaff, why you always convert even the simple sentence in a tired disussión and a word by word interrogatory? I can take the time to search for facts and answer all that, the replies and then all the new non related questions that I'm sure you will make but I'm not going to enter in that game. I don't have the time neither the interest to change your thoughts.

 

[TokoTurismo]

It's videogame history.

Read:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3w...n&sa=X&ei=YiL_UOGhF4qU0QXh54DwDA&redir_esc=y#

👍