Food for thought: A somewhat disturbing essay

  • Thread starter Zardoz
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I do wonder what three words he spoke of.

Very, very interesting and thought provoking.
 
I think the most helpful thing in it, was just the point about not underestimating your opponent. The in-fighting point, on a smaller level has been what is screwing up the US left-wing and the Australian (centre) left-wing also - they're in dire straits, not gonna win an election for a looong time I'm assuming.

I always thought the "war on terror" (in reference to the war on aviation - my favorite part of the essay) was just a carry-all catchphase to back up whatever the US wanted to do? Obviously it wasn't relevant in Iraq really. But the US did underestimate how difficult and tedious it would be.

What the story-essay did over-blow, was the level of danger we would ever really be in from the middle-east... Just NOT gonna happen...

If something really serious was about to happen (at the level the author of the essay played with) to the western world (including europe, australia etc etc), left and right would unite and we'd kick some serious arse militarily. If it got REALLY serious, there is always nukes/neutron bombs etc... The USA and allies could never be overthrown... Impossible.

I REALLY want to know what those 3 words were too...
 
James2097
... The USA and allies could never be overthrown...
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They aren't:

"Where will my grandchildren suffer this dhimmitude?” I asked. My mouth was suddenly so dry I could barely speak.

“Eurabia,” said the Time Traveler...

...I give you eight million Jews dead in Israel – incinerated – and many more dead Jews in Eurabia and around the world. I give you the continent of Europe cast back more than five hundred years into sad pools of warring civilizations.”

The Islamic population of Europe is growing very quickly. He envisions Europe as the main battleground.

Also, Pakistan already has nukes, Iran is working on them, and there's always the possibility of Russian nukes being stolen and sold to other Islamic nations. Add the availability of sufficient radioactive material to make "dirty" bombs, along with chemical and biological weapons, and it becomes more feasible. Much serious mischief could be done.
 
Zardoz
The Islamic population of Europe is growing very quickly. He envisions Europe as the main battleground.
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Yeah, this is real. But I read it with a bit more of an apocalyptical kinda tone to it (more American landmarks mentioned etc). It was inferred this thing happens on a global scale - but yeah Eurabia the main battleground (not only battleground).

Also, Pakistan already has nukes, Iran is working on them, and there's always the possibility of Russian nukes being stolen and sold to other Islamic nations. Add the availability of sufficient radioactive material to make "dirty" bombs, along with chemical and biological weapons, and it becomes more feasible. Much serious mischief could be done.
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As soon as the first nuke (proper or dirty) goes off on US soil, the middle-east will be turned into glass. (Yes George is percieved this over-reactive in countries that aren't America). I'm not sure how the author thinks what is actually being DONE at present (in terms of general safety of western citizens) is under-reacting... How nuts are they at the airports now?
 
James2097
...As soon as the first nuke (proper or dirty) goes off on US soil, the middle-east will be turned into glass.
Click to expand...

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But here's the rub: That's where virtually all of the oil in the world will be in the 21st century. There will be very little anywhere else. Oil production is difficult in a highly-radioactive wasteland. Other means of retaliation would have to be employed. Even with that, it wouldn't necessarily stop the cycle of tit-for-tat retaliation. We would be dealing with martyrdom enthusiasts who feel that dieing for the cause guarantees eternal bliss.

James2097
Yes, George is percieved this over-reactive in countries that aren't America.
Click to expand...

He's also perceived that way by many people in countries that are America.
 
He's quite the sci-fi writer, I'll tell you that. I bet you can't tell when he's kidding or when he's serious if you would talk to him. And those "three words", I wonder what they are. I don't believe any of that to be true, obviously, but it sure would be freaky if it came true. I'm not suporting any Nostradomas (sp?) stuff because if you say enough things, some of it is bound to be true.
 
Zardoz
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But here's the rub: That's where virtually all of the oil in the world will be in the 21st century. There will be very little anywhere else. Oil production is difficult in a highly-radioactive wasteland. Other means of retaliation would have to be employed. Even with that, it wouldn't necessarily stop the cycle of tit-for-tat retaliation. We would be dealing with martyrdom enthusiasts who feel that dieing for the cause guarantees eternal bliss.
Click to expand...
Neutron bomb? Kills everyone, the radiation goes away VERY fast, all the infrastructure you need doesn't get blown up, so you can waltz in later and start pumping oil.

Thats what I've heard about neutron bombs that America apparently have, but hey, that might be science fiction in itself. :D
 
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb
...authorities say that the common perception of the neutron bomb as a "landlord bomb" that would kill people but leave buildings undamaged is greatly overstated. At the conventional effective combat range (690 m), the blast from a 1 kt neutron bomb will ruin almost any civilian building. Thus the use of neutron bombs to stop an enemy attack, which requires exploding large numbers of them to blanket the enemy forces, would also destroy all buildings in the area.
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Unfortunately for the USA, James's theory wouldn't fly.
 
No the nutron bombs the real deal ...Lots of scary crap laying around out there just waiting for some nutcase to decide God told him he must burn the infidels / heretics / non believers / apostates .../ etc. off the earth or kill the world trying. Fanatics only make sense to themselves and their followers.
The best defence is a good offense...exterminate them .
Unless of course you like leaving nuke toys in the hands of people who get orders from what ever God they think wants you dead .

I see it as a simple yet complex problem of two cultures clashing ..with the fringe loonys from both looking to get the other to meet the devil in person .
The unlooneys either sit back and watch the house burn down or they grab a fire hose ..better yet they take the matches from their looney friends and lock them up ..nuts shouldnt be allowed to play with nukes .
 
Der Alta
Very, very interesting and thought provoking.
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It sure is.....

Eurabia thing is truly scary. All of a sudden, illegal immigrants in the U.S. are starting to look like sweethearts. :D Good find, Zardoz. 👍
 
a6m5
Good find, Zardoz. 👍
Click to expand...

ditto, does Zardoz have any other disturbing goodies? *paitiently waits*

“I give you an Asian world in chaos, a Pacific rim ruled by China after the vacuum of America’s withdrawal – this nation’s full resources devoted to fighting, and possibly losing, the Century War – a South America and Mexico lost to corruption and appeasement, a resurgent Russian Empire that has reclaimed its old dominated republics and more, and a Canada split into three hateful nations.”
Click to expand...

About a 1-1 truth to fiction ratio, Ok MAYBE a worst case scenario. But this statement definately got me on my hind legs.
 
no where in this story does it say anything about australia, which is good because I now have to go to bed and try to sleep...

certainly makes you think of all the possibilities of what could happen to our world,
 
kirkis9
...does Zardoz have any other disturbing goodies? *patiently waits*...
Click to expand...

You have no idea. Don't get me started.

Let's just say that the 21st century is going to be way more interesting than any of us want it to be.
 
I found it to be a dull, formulaic, turgid exercise in egocentricity from an unimaginative - though well-read - doom-merchant. The time-traveller was his grandson - shock horror!

Who cares what the three words were? As with all those who claim to know the future, he'll wait until after some significant event - there's always significant events - and then say he knew it was coming. As for the list of middle-eastern and American places... oh please.


In 20 years' time, when nothing has happened 123 minutes into any Indy 500s, I want the 15 minutes I spent reading that paid back to me.

*waits for someone to say "I hope you're right, but..."*
 
Aaaaand?

I like their counter. Kinda pails into insignificance next to this (and that's only in the UK, in one year).
 
Famine: I don't think none of us are(certainly not me) are taking everything in, like it's a political commentary in the news paper. It's still sort of a little Sci Fi piece with Iraq thrown into it. Story is predictable and it does go way overboard, but I believe it's for entertainment value(if you agree with it or not). I do think it would offend many people of Islam, but it showed me how bad it can be in our near-future, if groups like al-Qaeda actually have their way in the war against the West.
 
This is why I posted the story:

“You can’t have a war with Islam,” I said. “You can’t go to war against a religion. Radical Islam, maybe. Jihadism. Some extremists. But not a . . . the . . . religion itself."

That's what we need to think about. Is this where we're going? If so, then the story has value as a wake-up call.
 
And that's precisely my point too.

Anyone who classes Islam as "a" religion is as poorly informed as someone who classes Christianity as "a" religion. Why is fighting a war in a predominantly "x religion" country classed as a war against that religion? Consider that many of the early sorties against Iraq were launched from sites in Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
 
Famine
I found it to be a dull, formulaic, turgid exercise in egocentricity from an unimaginative - though well-read - doom-merchant. The time-traveller was his grandson - shock horror!

Who cares what the three words were? As with all those who claim to know the future, he'll wait until after some significant event - there's always significant events - and then say he knew it was coming. As for the list of middle-eastern and American places... oh please.


In 20 years' time, when nothing has happened 123 minutes into any Indy 500s, I want the 15 minutes I spent reading that paid back to me.

*waits for someone to say "I hope you're right, but..."*
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.

I do, however, firmly believe, without a hint of insincerity or facetiousness that without religion (any religion) the world would be a better place.
 
I agree with Famine on this one, and i'd like my 15 minutes back as well. Basically, this is nothing more then a script used as a tool for telling one writers fears of the future. Though it does say some good points, its all been said before (about Iraq, China, etc.) and is a little over played in this "message from Dan".
 
What is so wrong about believing in God?
I understand some people's aversion to "organized religion".
But just because men can be and are corruptable, doesn't make it God's fault.
IF you go back to the book of Genesis, you have the appearance of a nemesis that is anti-God, and tempts men (generic) to do wrong.

As for the story, it is a bit disturbing. But only in that it has that hint of "reality" (excluding that whole "time travel" felgarcarb) that foments interest.
This is geared toward those religious sci-fiers that have read, but not understood, or read too much into the book of revelations. Just enough "End times" stuff in it to make it disturbing.
 
Famine
...Why is fighting a war in a predominantly "x religion" country classed as a war against that religion?
Click to expand...

Don't ask us. Ask the Muslims who feel that way. You do agree that a great many Muslims see it like that, right?

We don't, yet, but that may change.

(If we do destroy Iran's nuclear capability, will anyone see it as anything other than using force to deny Islamic nations the capacity to possess nuclear weapons? How could it be anything other than a strike against "a" specific religion? How could it be seen as about anything else?)
 

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