Football vs. American "Football"?

[Speedy Samurai]

despite your earnest arguments, you will never convince me that a soccer player runs full out for 45 minutes, takes a breather and then runs full out for another 45 minutes.

I watch the games too.

 

[Famine]

despite your earnest arguments, you will never convince me that a soccer player runs full out for 45 minutes, takes a breather and then runs full out for another 45 minutes.

I watch the games too.

I doubt most of them do either. But the best ones do.

And I ask the same thing of my hockey players - move about or find another team. A stationary player is mostly useless to me.

Still, that wasn't what I was trying to convey. I was trying to get across the notion that at least eight of the 15 selected players must play for at least 66 minutes of a game, whereas with American Football you have 46 players, rolling substitutes and a stoppage at least every 30 seconds. There's only 1 hour of play, but a game takes 4 hours (compared to football, where there's 90 minutes of play and a game takes 105 minutes, or hockey where there's 70 minutes of play and a game takes 80 minutes). One sport is about short bursts and the other is about stamina.


Anyone in the know able to answer my distance/time question with regards to American Footballers?

 

[Diego440]

That simply brings up the argument of fitness levels.

And that's nothing to do with a bunch of fat knackers wearing 150lb of body armour being asked to do some exercise?

Don't, even for a second, think that american footballers are fat, sluggish players who do nothing but eat and watch TV. Granted, they are't as slim and thin as soccer players, but that's only because in football you aren't required to run great distances (unless you're a wide receiver). American football is a contact sport, and as such, most players don't run around much, hence they focus more on building up muscle and mass, rather than agility. I highly doubt that a padded plastic helmet, shoulder pads, hip pads and knee pads weigh in excess of 150 pounds, though.

In short, both sports are very different, and calling american football football is probably wrong. But the fact that they're different in no way means that one is more demanding on the player than the next. NFL players are as excercised and sportsman-like as any hockey or baseball player around.

Just as a side note, does the fact that a sport make the player run more or less make the sport more or less quality? So are marathon runners more 'athletes' than rugby players? Are F1 drivers more athletes than tennis players? And, isn't a game of hockey 60 minutes long? As in three periods of 20 minutes each?

 

[Famine]

And, isn't a game of hockey 60 minutes long? As in three periods of 20 minutes each?

I have been clarifying my hockey reference by saying "(field hockey)" after it. Ice hockey is three 20 minute periods. Field hockey is two 35 minute halves.

NFL players are as excercised and sportsman-like as any hockey or baseball player around.

One sport is about short bursts and the other is about stamina.

 

[Dave A]

despite your earnest arguments, you will never convince me that a soccer player runs full out for 45 minutes, takes a breather and then runs full out for another 45 minutes.

I watch the games too.

Maybe not, but I gaurenttee that 90%+ of professional footballers here will spend at least (and by at least I mean at least, as in most of thoes professionals will play more than that) 25 mins in each half pushing an attack or chasing the ball down. Compared to the average of 14 mins over a full game each American footballer plays (points to Famines statistic that as of this point is the only thing to go on), that's a marathon. Hell, when I play football in local sunday league matches or just with mates I'm running all the time, I usually play in defence or down either of the wings. American football to me is boring, it's just a load of guy's wearing far too much padding trying to play rugby. Okay I know there's more to American football than that, but rugby is infinitely better, the players spend more time on the pitch and theres less padding. And I like proper football more than that. One thing I do agree with is that Football and American football are both vastly different, I can't compare the two like for like, I can just asy which one I like most which is Football.

 

[MistaX]

I voted "I don't care about either one"

Because Soccer nor Football involve cars.

 

[OZZYGT]

I voted "I don't care about either one"

Because Soccer nor Football involve cars.

What about soccer mom minivans?

 

[MistaX]

What about soccer mom minivans?

That's not involved in the sport really.


Only if there's a Caravan Turbo.

 

[wfooshee]

I think a major point of American disdain for soccer is the fact that it's not presented to us by our TV gods. It doesn't fit our commercial television, with frequent repeated ad breaks. All NFL games are televised these days, and most major college footbal games. Before cable, though, there were only 3 or 4 college games televised every weekend, and I can tell you (as a member of a major university marching band in the late '70s who attended all the games) that the game-play accomodated the TV coverage by waiting for the commercials during gameplay. If there was a score or a turnover, the TV goes to commercial while the teams substitute in. When everybody's ready, they stand around and wait for the ref to get the word from the TV people that it's OK to start. Those delays didn't happen on non-televised games.

Amercian TV is up to 25 minutes of ads per hour. Soccer basically has no room for commercials, so the major networks had no room for coverage. Soccer coverage an be found these days with the wider variety of channels. I think ESPN's MLS coverage runs at a loss. (I don't know that, but I've heard it, so that's just gossip, not fact.)

So American kids don't grow up with soccer on TV. Therefore it is unimportant in their day-to-day living. Therefore as they outgrow the recreational leagues their municipal park departments put on, it just goes away, until they have kids of their own to sign up in leagues, and they can put a magnetic team emblem on the back of their 4500-pound 21st-century version of the station wagon (estate for the brits.)

Another factor is that Americans don't like games that don't score all the time. Baseball is an obvious exception, but even that has been in decline recently. Tied at 0 after 90 minutes!!???!! What was the point?!!??!

Personally, I like a good soccer game, but I don't get the chance to see one very often. We have NO coverage of international play except the World Cup, and even then it's only promoted heavily if our team has some kind of real shot at it. Remember, we call our teams "World Champions" even though we don't let anybody else come play against us.

But last week's bowl game between Boise State and Oklahoma ranks as one of the most enjoyable sporting events I've ever seen. Those boys at Boise State never gave up, never admitted defeat, and scrambled for one of the greatest upsets ever in college football.

 

[daan]

That's not involved in the sport really.


Only if there's a Caravan Turbo.

They could use SUVs to transport the 300lb defensive lineman up the field to the new line of scrimmage. 💡

 

[Sureboss]

Il Padrino the last 2 cons for Soccer aren't that big a deal.

For the first one.

Heading a soccer ball doesn't hurt, if that puts you off soccer then I'm not surprised why (if you're like other Americans) Cricket hasn't done anything in the US (though it's slowly getting bigger). I take it you'd go nowhere near a rugby pitch either.

The second one.

Dip your head and put your head through the ball. (your forehead as it's the strongest bit).

Though saying that it surprises me a little because NFL is quite rough and tumble isn't it. Not on the Rugby scale but it's quite tough at times.

 

[PLmatt91]

World Football for the win. (Soccer)

I've played as a young kid and I love the sport. Sure, I'm out of shape during the season, but if you give me the ball, I'm still a beast

And I've watched and played American football, and kids in my school always talk about it, soo much that's it a pain in the ass by now. I'm just not interested in American football. I don't get the concept. Fat people play in it and they're only good for blocking. It's just twisted to me. I'll never understand it. Amen.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Don't, even for a second, think that american footballers are fat, sluggish players who do nothing but eat and watch TV. Granted, they are't as slim and thin as soccer players, but that's only because in football you aren't required to run great distances (unless you're a wide receiver). American football is a contact sport, and as such, most players don't run around much, hence they focus more on building up muscle and mass, rather than agility.

But there's nothing stopping them having good stamina as well. I introduce to you, Andrew Sheridan, Okay, he's only 275lb, but he can bench press 480lb and he's still expected to get his ass all around the field, and fair do's to him, he does.

I highly doubt that a padded plastic helmet, shoulder pads, hip pads and knee pads weigh in excess of 150 pounds, though.

I'm quite sure it was in jest.

 

[Kylehnat]

I'm just not interested in American football. I don't get the concept. Fat people play in it and they're only good for blocking. It's just twisted to me. I'll never understand it. Amen.

Those "fat" people could snap you in half with one hand. Linemen are incredibly strong. No, they can't run a marathon, but few 300+ lb people can, no matter how fit they are. Their job is to use their strength to keep defensive linemen (who are also incredibly large and fast to boot) in front of them, and away from the quarterback and tailback. Please watch an NFL game, and pay attention only to the line work (since you obviously don't care about the game anyway). Their work is tough. Go push your refrigerator around for 10 seconds. Then have someone on the other side push back. Then do it 60 times.

Also, just for everyone's benefit, the maximum amount of time between NFL plays is 40 seconds (save for TV commercials and on-field timeouts, which are mostly used for stopping the clock, rather than delaying the game). In college, it's 25 seconds. If you can't handle that, you have severe ADD.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Also, just for everyone's benefit, the maximum amount of time between NFL plays is 40 seconds (save for TV commercials and on-field timeouts, which are mostly used for stopping the clock, rather than delaying the game). In college, it's 25 seconds. If you can't handle that, you have severe ADD.

It's not that people lose interest in it first time. It's that it is so repetitive. These 'short' breaks happen after every play which is probably shorter than the break.

That is what makes it boring to watch at home.

I'd like to add that I don't think in anyway that American Football is boring to watch live. As long as you have a few mates with you and a few beers (as seems to be the norm) it'll be enjoyable.

 

[Famine]

Those "fat" people could snap you in half with one hand.

They couldn't catch me.


Especially not if I dropped M&Ms as I ran.

 

[Diego440]

but American football is amazingly entertaining, once you understand it. As Ozzy said at the beginning of this thread, when you first look at it and from a stand point of not understanding it, it may seem like a bunch of overweight men pushing each other for 3 seconds at a time and resting for 2 minutes.

But once you understand it, it's so much more complicated and has such depth to it that the game is really entertaining. The struggle of the underdog team to get a first down, the agony of seeing your wide receiver fail to catch a ball, or seeing the rusher failing to score on a 3rd and goal occasion.

American football is more of tactics... out-thinking your opponent and forcing them to make a mistake. I personally like it better than soccer, but it's more because I've lived here for less time and can't say I'm really fond of any team. And it irks me that there's absolutely no coverage of anything having to do with NFL or NHL here.

American football is as enjoyable to watch on TV or in the stadium, I believe. But then again, I find it funny that the people who most complain about american football are the ones who have a) never been to a game, b) don't understand it, c) not interested, or d) all of the above.

 

[PLmatt91]

Especially not if I dropped M&Ms as I ran.

That's the fact too. In World Soccer, every one is small and skinny and really fast. Those linemen are huge and could only block us if any thing, not run fast though.

 

[Zrow]

Trust me, there's plenty of fast runners in American football.

 

[Dave A]

I find it funny that the people who most complain about american football are the ones who have a) never been to a game, b) don't understand it, c) not interested, or d) all of the above.

With regards to c, why would you be interested in it if you didn't like it? I don't understand American football nearly as well as a proper fan should, but from what I've watched it just doesn't hold my attention, stop and start sports don't. When there's football to watch instead which is much faster paced, it requires a hell of a lot of stamina and skill and there's relatively few times that play is broken I just could care less about American football. When I want to see a more physical game of something I watch rugby, at least I can see rugby at a stadium, I go to watch Sale Sharks from time to time. I used to watch them in a corporate box, I worked for a company that sponsored them, now I just watch as a fan.

 

[OZZYGT]

Trust me, there's plenty of fast runners in American football.

Can they run for 90 minutes straight?

 

[ExigeEvan]

but American football is amazingly entertaining, once you understand it. As Ozzy said at the beginning of this thread, when you first look at it and from a stand point of not understanding it, it may seem like a bunch of overweight men pushing each other for 3 seconds at a time and resting for 2 minutes.

But once you understand it, it's so much more complicated and has such depth to it that the game is really entertaining. The struggle of the underdog team to get a first down, the agony of seeing your wide receiver fail to catch a ball, or seeing the rusher failing to score on a 3rd and goal occasion.

American football is more of tactics... out-thinking your opponent and forcing them to make a mistake. I personally like it better than soccer, but it's more because I've lived here for less time and can't say I'm really fond of any team. And it irks me that there's absolutely no coverage of anything having to do with NFL or NHL here.

American football is as enjoyable to watch on TV or in the stadium, I believe. But then again, I find it funny that the people who most complain about american football are the ones who have a) never been to a game, b) don't understand it, c) not interested, or d) all of the above.

I do understand American football. Sure I don't know every little rule and have practically no background on the teams (But I do know a few) or even much knowledge on how the season is going so far, but I shouldn't need to know all that just to sit down and casually watch a game.

I love playing American Football. We played it in Comprehensive in PE near the end of the term and it was great. I'd play it more often but it's hard to get enough people together to play a casual game. You get to tackle like hell and not worry about where the rest of you defensive line is, you just focus on the ball (if you're defending).

But, it's a tragically boring game to watch IMO with all the stopping and starting.

Trust me, there's plenty of fast runners in American football.

And they'll soon be joined by banned athletes like Dwain Chambers

 

[daan]

Trust me, there's plenty of fast runners in American football.

But how long does he have to run for? 100 yards maximum. A football full back can run the length of a football pitch (between 100-130yards) to support an attack, and then immediately have to run it again to defend, and then have to run it again, and again, without any sort of break.

 

[Kylehnat]

But, it's a tragically boring game to watch IMO with all the stopping and starting.

This is the worst argument you can make while trying to discredit any sport. If you don't like it, of course you'll think it's boring.

That's the fact too. In World Soccer, every one is small and skinny and really fast. Those linemen are huge and could only block us if any thing, not run fast though.

Will you still be laughing when a 250 pound linebacker drives you into the turf after you've so cleverly out-foxed the D-Line? How about when you think you've beat everyone, only to have a cornerback run all the way across the field and grab your ankles while you're running full speed.

You can't just insert a soccer player into an NFL game. They're not strong enough or, gasp, fast enough to survive. They're not trained for it. Likewise, an NFL player, no matter how fit, would not do well in a soccer game. They're not trained for it, either.

It's ludicrous to judge either sport on the size or speed of its players. The objectives of each game are different, and so the players develop their skills and bodies accordingly.

But how long does he have to run for? 100 yards maximum. A football full back can run the length of a football pitch (between 100-130yards) to support an attack, and then immediately have to run it again to defend, and then have to run it again, and again, without any sort of break.

Why is how far and long someone can run important? Take baseball: the players don't have to run particularily far, nor do they have to do it often. Regardless, they have to be in excellent shape. When they do run, they have to sprint. Playing an entire baseball game is physically challenging, despite the start-stop nature of the game. How about racecar drivers? They don't run at all. They sit.

 

[Sureboss]

That's the fact too. In World Soccer, every one is small and skinny and really fast. Those linemen are huge and could only block us if any thing, not run fast though.

Crouch as Quarterback!

I can barely stand the ads in F1, I don't think I could watch NFL as it is very stop go, it's entertaining, but the games also take quite a while to complete don't they?

 

[OZZYGT]

That's what I was saying, 1 minute can take forever to be be over!!

 

[Diego440]

That's what I was saying, 1 minute can take forever to be be over!!

The 2-minute-warning alone takes about 3 minutes to start!

But really, having lived on both sides of the Atlantic, and being in both types of games, I can really say both are very entertaining and whereas one is immensely complex, the other is amazingly simple; yet they both have quite a following in their respective places. Did you know there are six ways of scoring in American football?

But on the other hand, are sumo wrestlers less of an athlete than a marathon runner? Sumo guys are hugely fat and strong, and I doubt they can sprint the 100 metre dash in a respectable time.

I think some of you guys need to go back and re-read the thread... while the topic of one game concerning stamina and resistance and the other being more of wits and short runs has already been covered.-

 

[PLmatt91]

Trust me, there's plenty of fast runners in American football.

Yeah, there are, but not fat ones.

 

[DuckRacer]

Yeah, there are, but not fat ones.

Eat your words. He's 5'11'', 255 pounds, and probably faster than most people here.

 

[Pupik]

He's 5'11'', 255 pounds, and probably faster than most people here.

Except he (Jerome Bettis) is retired, and I'm not. I'm obviously a harder worker.

To answer Famine's question, the amount of running an American Football player performs at any one time is actually quite short, a quarterback has to make a lot of the decisions on where to run, where and how to throw the ball, dodge one or more 280-pound people looking to squash him...so he scrambles around a lot of he doesn't immediately hand the ball off to a running back. So a quarterback only has to run around 5-10 yards on each play.

A running back, fullback, or tight end is expected to get slammed my multiple linebackers (they play for the defense) for an average of 3-4 yards per play. A few times a game, he'll probably make 10 yards or more in a play.

The wide receiver (offense) or cornerback (defense) does the most amount of running per game, constantly running out 10-20 yards (or more) per play. On every play, the wide receiver has to run as quick as a 100-meter sprinter to catch the ball a quarterback thrown to him (or at least, near him....hopefully). The conerback has it even tougher, because he has to stay in close proximity with the wide receiver, without holding him back or tackling (it's not permitted until the receiver is within half a yard of the ball or has touched it), and yet he doesn't have a clue exactly what sort of play the quarterback and receiver have decided on, so he's got a guessing game to play.

The rest of the guys on offense are lineman or a center, and they don't so much move around as wrestle and tackle the other players as needed. On the defense side, there's the strong safety, who's quick enough to move in on whoever's been handed the ball, so he moves around about 5-10 yards on each play.

Special teams have a lot of running to do, but there's far less plays involved for them in a game. The players are expected to try to play both sides of the ball during kickoffs and punts. One minute, they're blocking, the next, they're trying to run down field and make a tackle. The kick returner is like a combo of the running back and wide receiver noted above, he's expected to run like heck in a minefield of tackles and blocks, for what averages 5-15 yards each on each catch.

The most a player can run in one time is 100 years, unless he's zig-zagging around in some weird end-of-game-desperation play. A good running back gets 4 yards per carry, and 100 yards a game is considered a success. A good wide receiver is supposed to get 100 yards "catching", but he likely runs around 3-4 times that in a game, manly to "trick" the other team.

Anyhow, make what you will of that. American footballers do not run around in the same sort of athletic fashion as a soccer player does, since he's expected to run around much of the time, especially if it's a midfielder. Play doesn't stop your matches unless there's a fire and a riot. American football stops every 4-10 seconds, with an average 25-second gap between plays. There's also timeouts and referees that stop play on penalties, reviewing calls and even time-outs for TV ads.