For those that object to GTS or GT7 having Std Cars, what is your reason?

[Mike_grpA]

Okay, screw it, let's argue because Mike likes to argue. Yay.

You're the one who started arguing cobber, and then when it was clear that you misunderstood my posts, some of which you hadn't even read, you started coming up with strawmen instead. A trend you continue with that ridiculous post. You can't simply take single lines from a post, out of the context it's written, invent your own context, claim you and you alone know what someone else is talking about, and argue with it.

I think you might need help...

BTW, if you continue this sad attempt at being clever, you'll get nothing more than "cool story" from me. You've made it quite clear you're unwilling to actually read and understand what anyone writes, and you'll just simply make things up to argue against. Have fun with that 👍

 

[CSLACR]

You're the one who started arguing cobber, and then when it was clear that you misunderstood my posts, some of which you hadn't even read, you started coming up with strawmen instead. A trend you continue with that ridiculous post. You can't simply take single lines from a post, out of the context it's written, invent your own context, claim you and you alone know what someone else is talking about, and argue with it.

I think you might need help...

BTW, if you continue this sad attempt at being clever, you'll get nothing more than "cool story" from me. You've made it quite clear you're unwilling to actually read and understand what anyone writes, and you'll just simply make things up to argue against. Have fun with that 👍

Ah I get it, your strawmen all defeated, etc, etc

You knew this was a 2-way street, right?
You said it well enough for me you.

 

[Mike_grpA]

You knew this was a 2-way street, right?
You said it well enough for me you.

The difference is I wasn't using strawmen. Perhaps you should google the term, as you still don't understand it. Also: Cool story

 

[daan]

Aaand back on topic.

 

[chzsln485]

I think it's pretty clearly a vague statement, but I also think I speak PD, so here's the translation I have on file:

We are going to do more "semi-premium" work to continue spiffing up our 14 year old models, some of which are still based of die-cast model cars. They will be more visually pleasing this time around, but the insides and physics will remain that of Playstation2 era quality.

I've just thought...

Maybe Polyphony will troll us all by converting all their Premium cars to Standards, thus destroying any notion of "distinction" by making them all of equally poor quality.

 

[Imari]

What most of you guys miss out from, is that as for all Standard cars in GT6, they are not just copy pasted from previous releases, you can't/don't do that, and that's not PD's philosophy or vision to do such things.

Yeah, it is, and yeah, they did.

What they actually do, is for every new release they build everything from scratch, even the Standard cars.

No, they don't, because building 800 cars to the exact same quality as the previous generation would be an incredible waste of time. A mesh is a mesh.

The only thing that's different is the standard cars are built the same way as the premium cars, but the have less polygons and no detailed interiors. And if you look closely on the standard cars, you can actually see through the window screens and see low visual rendering interiors, you could not see that in the first GT games.

Yeah, you could.

It was just less obvious because the game was lower resolution.

 

[Samus]

Boy, that was a whole lot of wrong in one post.

 

[Tornado]

In fact, not only could you see through the window screens in GT3 and GT4, but a decent amount of cars had considerably more detail inside of them than GT5/GT6 have ever shown.



Lest we forget:

 

[chzsln485]

In fact, not only could you see through the window screens in GT3 and GT4, but a decent amount of cars had considerably more detail inside of them than GT5/GT6 have ever shown.



Lest we forget:

On a very select number of convertibles, cars with no roof, or with interesting doors, yes. The majority didn't do that. Remember also that GT3/GT4 cars in their respective games had 2D wheels in races, so by having the "highest quality" (such as it is) versions of the models in GT6, with 3D wheels, is already one way to make them look better.

 

[Tornado]

That would be why I said "a decent amount" instead of "the majority".

 

[BloodyThunderX]

I'll put it this way as I am one of those people.

Other: I really don't care about Standard cars enough to have a problem with it. Sure, I would prefer not to see them, but we don't know how they are going to be conveyed in GTS or GT7 yet, so I'm really just going to remain quiet about it until I see it for myself by the time it's shown in the respective games.

 

[FoRiZon]

In fact, not only could you see through the window screens in GT3 and GT4, but a decent amount of cars had considerably more detail inside of them than GT5/GT6 have ever shown.



Lest we forget:

Lets not forget the cars that was being convertible and can see the interior in GT4 (even driver shifting), but forced closed top since GT5 for no interior.

Example: Chevrolet SSR, Any convertible Mercedes besides SL55, Fiat Barchetta, and many others.

 

[Nexus]

Lets not forget the cars that was being convertible and can see the interior in GT4 (even driver shifting), but forced closed top since GT5 for no interior.

Example: Chevrolet SSR, Any convertible Mercedes besides SL55, Fiat Barchetta, and many others.

IIRC, the top down option was only available when there was one car on the track. I still don't get why the option disappeared in the later games, though. Also, I could be wrong but I think that those cars also had a 900 degree steering animation.

 

[girabyt3]

IIRC, the top down option was only available when there was one car on the track. I still don't get why the option disappeared in the later games, though. Also, I could be wrong but I think that those cars also had a 900 degree steering animation.

Yeah, until an early build of GT5 prologue there was 900º steering animation on the cars, could return on the PS4 probbably (if driveclub has it, GT can have it too)

 

[gtracedriver1]

What most of you guys miss out from, is that as for all Standard cars in GT6, they are not just copy pasted from previous releases, you can't/don't do that, and that's not PD's philosophy or vision to do such things. What they actually do, is for every new release they build everything from scratch, even the Standard cars. The only thing that's different is the standard cars are built the same way as the premium cars, but the have less polygons and no detailed interiors. And if you look closely on the standard cars, you can actually see through the window screens and see low visual rendering interiors, you could not see that in the first GT games.
My personal opinion is that, they should only keep the most prominent standards, make those in to premium, scratch all the duplicates out, and use GT Planet to see what sort of cars and brands that the community and players really wants. There are so many cars that haven't seen the light of day in GT. Ford Escort RS Cosworth, Ford Sierra RS Cosworth, Mitsubishi Starion road version, Opal Manta, BMW 320i, Ford Escort MK1 '72, Ford Capri, Skoda 105, Skoda Rapid 105 Speed, Lancia 037, and lot more cars, so for me there's many cars and brands to look at, and they should do that. I like the standard cars, because I do replica tuning in GT6, but, I don't need 10 or more of the same car

I agree. The blackout windshield is puzzling and hopefully it will not be in GTS, GT7. In GT6 cockpit view also some cars looks as if the driver is wearing sunglasses and you have to manually increase the exposure setting. Having said that other games also do it and have crappier looking cars including blacked out windshield

 

[Imari]

Having said that other games also do it and have crappier looking cars including blacked out windshield

Which games would those be?

 

[FoRiZon]

Which games would those be?

GRID Autosport

 

[Imari]

GRID Autosport

Doesn't have blacked out windows, and the cars aren't particularly substandard compared to PS3 models in general (although they're not up to GT/FM quality). You can see into the cars and the interiors are there (and you can race from cockpit view), although it's race cars so they're obviously nothing flash.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Actually GAS have blurred out cockpits and the rear view and side mirrors also don't work. It's strange because some of those cars are ported from GRID 1 which has fully detailed cockpits for all cars.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

You can see into the cars and the interiors are there (and you can race from cockpit view), although it's race cars so they're obviously nothing flash.

"Nothing flash" is a bit of an understatement! They're so blurry it's like a mirage of an interior

Grid Autosport is interesting actually in that it's the only racing game other than GT I can think of that has deliberately used pretty crap (but "good enough") assets for the cars. Even more so given they decided to do this after GRID 2, which didn't have cockpits at all.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

^I think it's because of the backlash from GRID 2 that didn't have cockpits, that they reinstuted cockpit view from GAS. But they didn't have enough time to model new cars' cockpits, so they decided to blur all cockpits for the sake of consistency, even those that have been present in GRID 1.

Some people like it, because it gives a NFS Shift "tunnel vision" effect. Personally, I hate it when games have any kind of motion blur. I'd rather just not have cockpits at all like GRID 2.

 

[Ameer67]

so they decided to blur all cockpits for the sake of consistency

And that's what I like about Codies: they're fairly consistent. They don't have two different levels of details. They choose either or, unlike PD with Premiums and Standards in the same game.

 

[Tornado]

"Nothing flash" is a bit of an understatement! They're so blurry it's like a mirage of an interior

Grid Autosport is interesting actually in that it's the only racing game other than GT I can think of that has deliberately used pretty crap (but "good enough") assets for the cars. Even more so given they decided to do this after GRID 2, which didn't have cockpits at all.

To be honest, that's all I ever really wanted for GT5 and GT6 for Standard cars. GTPSP was fairly similar, and it was perfectly playable with it. But this:

Was always useless.

 

[Conza]

Look I love variety, but I think there's really three avenues here, and I'm kind of prepared to give up the standards, sort of for the principal of it all.

Make all* standards premium - probably what everyone wants, but basically what no one thinks will happen ( *then we get into the minutiae of doubles, lets not go there again)
Keep standards just the way they are
Sacrifice the standards for other content.

In my mind, and others may disagree, there's no reason not to have standards, without a trade/reward, if they're in for basically nothing, then we might as well right?

That's what PD says to itself I think. We can spend all this time and effort, making a perfect scale Peugeot 307 XSi that all 15 of it's fans will just love, or make the Ferrari F12, with just a tad more effort, which 150,000 people will love to death.

And on that basis, even as 1 of the 15 fans, I'll take the F12, it just makes sense.

This may seem a little strange quoting myself, but I realise I missed the main point at the end.

If I were to be given the choice "between" (one or the other, not both) a standard Peugeot 307 and a Ferrari F12, I'd choose the F12. Then expand that out to all standard cars for all of the modern relevant fresh last 5 years cars, yes please for new premiums.

Cutting them for more Vision Gran Turismos? No way, not for me. And again, cutting them for no benefit, that's simply madness, in my opinion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Cutting them for more Vision Gran Turismos? No way, not for me. And again, cutting them for no benefit, that's simply madness, in my opinion.

In my mind, and others may disagree, there's no reason not to have standards, without a trade/reward, if they're in for basically nothing, then we might as well right?

It has been beat but graphical consistency is the number one reason I see people not wanting standards in a 2016 current gen game. They simply don't want to look a what are now crappy and old virtual versions of cars and tracks playing on a system that is capable of blowing you away with it's realism. Do like every other franchise in every genre, leave the old crap behind and move forward. Everyone else survives just fine doing so, there's no reason why GT can't. There is a crap ton of premium content, they've had years to prepare for this moment and with the size of team and funding they have, there's no reason the entire game can't be top to bottom state of the art in 2016. Project Cars created a massive track list and is adding lots of DLC in a short time frame operating on a veritable shoe string compared to PD. Same with Kunos and Assetto Corsa, that has released 25 cars, 3 tracks with 7 layouts including the best laser scanned version of the Nordschliefe ever (biased personal opinion). That's 25 cars and 7 layouts in a game that has sold only 300,000 units and the entire team is composed of 27 people!! There's simply no excuse for PD with their team and their financial backing not to pump out premiums by the truckload and replace many of the iconic standards with full premium versions at the same time.

 

[glassjaw]

Grid Autosport is interesting actually in that it's the only racing game other than GT I can think of that has deliberately used pretty crap (but "good enough") assets for the cars. Even more so given they decided to do this after GRID 2, which didn't have cockpits at all.

To this day I don't understand Grid Autosport's existence. I never played it — just 1 and 2 — but at the time it seemed like Codies was trying to capitalize on the core audience using pre-existing assets before the transition to next-gen would have necessitated them to develop a new game mostly from scratch. In many ways, it was the game Grid 2 should have been.

On another note, I wouldn't call the assets crap; the cars were all at a consistent, acceptable level of detail, and the choice was likely made to get the game out in a year's time (or whatever the gap was between Grid 2 and Autosport) and maintain a smooth framerate on underpowered platforms.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

To this day I don't understand Grid Autosport's existence. I never played it — just 1 and 2 — but at the time it seemed like Codies was trying to capitalize on the core audience using pre-existing assets before the transition to next-gen would have necessitated them to develop a new game mostly from scratch. In many ways, it was the game Grid 2 should have been.

It was a great game, but yeah it was essentially a re-made Grid 1. Not necessarily anything wrong with that of course, though my beef with it is since it followed the more radical but not loved Grid 2, this was marketed as a USP/"feature". I love Codies but boy do they make a bunch of sideways steps sometimes......but I digress. For another topic

On another note, I wouldn't call the assets crap

Neither would I, I only called them pretty crap I was only referring to the interiors as well, everything else is fine from what I've seen. My main point was that with Grid AS, PD aren't alone in deliberately putting in some lower-quality assets to add in functionality, at the expense of consistency (as in, between interiors/exteriors). And it'll be interesting to see if any other devs in the racing genre ever follow suit in the future.

 

[SynGamer]

A few reasons...

1. It's 2016. Standard-res cars have no place in a PS4 game.
2. I have always objected to the amount of (useless/duplicate) cars in the GT games. The Standard-res cars are just artificially inflating the car count.
3. PD should be focusing on either upgrading the cars to Premium quality, or dropping them. It has been said countless times, but do we really need 9 different Skylines or Miata's? No, we don't.

 

[Conza]

You know, if history is any indicator (and I can recall it properly), GT1-3 shared cars (?) GT4-6 have shared cars, so perhaps GT7* will be a fresh start anyway?

*GT7/GTS Under the assumption GTS isn't a glorified prologue

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You know, if history is any indicator (and I can recall it properly), GT1-3 shared cars (?) GT4-6 have shared cars, so perhaps GT7* will be a fresh start anyway?

*GT7/GTS Under the assumption GTS isn't a glorified prologue

That depends on what you mean by "shared". There was a fair amount of car models that were present in both GT2 and GT3 (and onward), but the assets themselves were all new on the PS2. No PS1 vehicle assets were carried over untouched; stretching back to the last-gen for those is unique to the PS3 generation... well, for now. I'd certainly hope PD don't toss away the Premiums!