For those that object to GTS or GT7 having Std Cars, what is your reason?

[Sick Cylinder]

The problem with the roster of Standard cars is that because they were quick and easy to model very little thought was put into their selection hence the vast number of duplicates, near duplicates and peculiar choices.

We had an excellent post by @Imari which makes crystal clear why make them all premium is simply not an option.

I sincerely hope that PD now puts in a lot more thought into the selection of cars, but so far from GT5 and GT6 I don't see much evidence of that. Kaz has said that selection of the older cars is based on their historic significance - this may be so, but PD often forget to include the natural competitors for a car. Doing this is the key to being able to create an interesting selection of championships and a good and varied career mode with multiple branches.

developing and maintaining a good car list is so important to those things that I don't want to see PD squandering their limited resources when that time could be better spent elsewhere.

If however they now have quick processes to upgrade to semi-premium then I would be ok with standards - provided I can easily avoid them when I want to (chuck them in a different dealership please).

I also don't want to be racing in a championship in the game and be surrounded by completely illogical choices of cars, many of them with standard exteriors.

 

[Imari]

I also don't want to be racing in a championship in the game and be surrounded by completely illogical choices of cars, many of them with standard exteriors.

I think this is the one thing that they need to do more than anything else, they need to select cars that fit into sensible racing categories. Whether that category is "GT3 cars" or "cheap sports cars from the '90s" or "FWD cars under 1.5 litres", any car chosen needs to have a category in which it could sensibly race, even if it's only a one make race. Having a field full of Red Bull Juniors racing each other makes total sense. A field full of Pikes Peak Quattros not so much.

I think both the car list and the single player mode would benefit a lot from this kind of symbiotic development. At the moment they appear to be very disjointed, the cars are chosen according to some not readily apparent criteria, and the career mode makes do with whatever cars are available.

If it has an engine you can race it. That's my humble opinion

I suspect even you would have a line below which it wouldn't be worth it, be that PS1 graphics, the afore-posted Stunt Car graphics, or four disconnected wheels rolling along the road.

I could be wrong, but I think for everyone there's a level at which their brain is no longer capable of a sufficient level of abstraction, and what is supposed to be cues for your imagination just becomes a clutter of distracting stuff on the screen. Maybe your level is lower than most, but I think "if it moves it's fine" is a bit disingenuous. There's a point at which without the visuals it's no longer particularly fun to drive.

 

[1241Penguin]

I feel that a game series as reputable as Gran Turismo should not have models that creates a division of quality, especially when you're comparing the beautifully modelled Premium cars, which Kaz loves to show off, to the (mostly) jagged, ugly, interior-lacking Standard cars. For me, the Standard cars also make me feel like I need to tip-toe around the game at times, like when choosing to purchase a car for a photo shoot, I might have to sift through a hand full of cars before finding one that doesn't have blurry textures. It's just sloppy.

 

[eran0004]

I suspect even you would have a line below which it wouldn't be worth it, be that PS1 graphics, the afore-posted Stunt Car graphics, or four disconnected wheels rolling along the road.

You misunderstood me. It was about which cars would or would not belong in a racing game, not about how they're represented in the game.

 

[Doomotron]

The point is that I am proposing additional iterations of FGT - representing 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, early and late 90's F1, as well as current-specification F1, in addition to what we have right now (representing early 2000's F1).

Think of the uses! For example, the 50's/60's FGT will find niche among racers who formerly ran LCC Rockets.

So the F---/- series? I'd like that.

 

[Frenzyhero]

edit

 

[Tired Tyres]

Why mess about with not real standards though.

Why not just get the Classic Lotus licence? The 25,49,72 and 79 covers most of that.

Then licence something from the early 80's, mid/late 80's and early/late 90's.

Blank editions and a paint option as a minimum or a livery editor and you're good to go.

keep standard to premium conversion to real cars and concentrate on filling in the premium list.

There is one premium GT1 car I think. The McLaren F1 that won Le Mans. The Long tail version, the Mercedes, Nissan R390 and Toyota GTone would therefore be primary targets. That would create a proper GT1 grid.

Likewise, we have Jaguar, Mazda and Mercedes Group C Premiums so the Nissan's and Toyota should be primary targets.

If it three years between GT6 and GTS then that's about 150 new cars. Lets say 75 completely new cars and 75 standard to premium upgrades. That's 25 of each from each region.

Then just hold the rest on PD servers and set the new guys they take on to the task of upgrading them to see if they are any good at it.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Why mess about with not real standards though.

Why not just get the Classic Lotus licence? The 25,49,72 and 79 covers most of that.

Then licence something from the early 80's, mid/late 80's and early/late 90's.

Blank editions and a paint option as a minimum or a livery editor and you're good to go.

keep standard to premium conversion to real cars and concentrate on filling in the premium list.

There is one premium GT1 car I think. The McLaren F1 that won Le Mans. The Long tail version, the Mercedes, Nissan R390 and Toyota GTone would therefore be primary targets. That would create a proper GT1 grid.

Likewise, we have Jaguar, Mazda and Mercedes Group C Premiums so the Nissan's and Toyota should be primary targets.

If it three years between GT6 and GTS then that's about 150 new cars. Lets say 75 completely new cars and 75 standard to premium upgrades. That's 25 of each from each region.

Then just hold the rest on PD servers and set the new guys they take on to the task of upgrading them to see if they are any good at it.

I agree with you. Just Toyota GT one is LMP(LMGTP) car in GT6 not GT1. In GT2 we had 98 GT one that belong to GT1 class.

 

[Castrol96]

In the Goodwood circuit in GT6 you can see some F1 cars on some structure. There seems to be Lotus's, a Ferrari and a couple Mercedes. The f1's seem to share a different decades. I may be wrong due to my F1 Knowledge. @TiredTyres

I remember seeing this when the game was being made. They may not be there anymore. The cars seem quite detailed so we might have a chance of seeing these in the future.

I'm confused that PD could have the Licence for these cars? Or maybe the cars have same rules like the Porsche dealers (in one of the tracks).

 

[Organ-Donor]

To me it comes down to principle. It was bad enough that we had PS2 cars from 10+ years ago carried over to PS3 not once, but twice, but to have them yet AGAIN on PS4, the most cutting edge console is downright laughable. This is in addition to the insanely long development time to get a new GT game out, no excuse. I love the standard cars (the actual car, not the modeling), but having PS2 assets in a PS4 game is ridiculous, especially an AAA flagship title.

I'm not a standard car snob, I used them on GT5. But it breaks the immersion, makes the game very inconsistent, and like I said 10+ year old PS2 assets have no business being in a PS4 game, or PS3 for that matter. I don't know any other game that blends two tier level graphics together from different generations in the same game. PD needs to outsource if they need to, or cut the car count down to get them all the same quality and start from there because if not where does it end?

 

[NivekRJ]

PD needs to outsource if they need to

I predict this is going to happen, or rather, has to happen at some point. Besides them needing to focus on brand new premium cars and wanting to convert the most popular standards and semi-premiums to premiums, there's one other thing. If you look over in the GT Suggestions forums, you'll see a lot of really popular older cars being requested. Some of those posts have a ton of likes.

So yeah, it's a rather substantial workload for them and that's just for cars. The big question is, are they going to spend the money and resources on all these older cars?

 

[Mulan]

If there is filter with option having them or not then its great. I guess with VR they wont do any good if you want to see more than black interior. But if they are optional as filteroption in all races and online then i see no harm at all. Some will probably love them and have "standard" lobbies with great races even if they look like 10 years old graphics. And i would miss them too, retrogames are popular now

 

[Samus]

For me, if they upgrade them to semi-premium, I'm ok with standard cars.

Otherwise, no.

Makes me laugh when people say this. You're basically saying you're ok with standard cars, as long as they're not standard cars.

 

[GETEDA]

If gts its fun, we can get a GT7 Prologue in the 2019 and get the final release without std cars in 2025 lol










bro!

 

[syntex123]

@GETEDA Or in 2020 - Because of the Nissan 2020 VGT

 

[JKgo]

...I've read many great and thoughtful responses in this thread, and I agree with almost all of them. But I don't think not one person mentioned one of the reasons why I want standard cars gone - lack of interiors.

I use interior cam 99.9999% of the time except when piloting Redbull fan cars, and blacked out silhouette's no bloody fun to look at.
And I don't know how many of you have noticed this, but when driving Ford F150, or even Midget in interior view, the hood/bonnet and the bootlid/trunk/loadbay disappears, completely breaking the immersion.

I believe most std cars suffer from this curious corner cutting. Since I try my best not to crash into things, I dunno if this disappearing acts affect the so-called crash detection or not, but it is disconcerting nonetheless.

 

[TokoTurismo]

@GETEDA Or in 2020 - Because of the Nissan 2020 VGT

Haha, same thing I say.

 

[Mike_grpA]

...I've read many great and thoughtful responses in this thread, and I agree with almost all of them. But I don't think not one person mentioned one of the reasons why I want standard cars gone - lack of interiors.

I use interior cam 99.9999% of the time except when piloting Redbull fan cars, and blacked out silhouette's no bloody fun to look at.
And I don't know how many of you have noticed this, but when driving Ford F150, or even Midget in interior view, the hood/bonnet and the bootlid/trunk/loadbay disappears, completely breaking the immersion.

I believe most std cars suffer from this curious corner cutting. Since I try my best not to crash into things, I dunno if this disappearing acts affect the so-called crash detection or not, but it is disconcerting nonetheless.

Yeah I agree with this. When I used a controller, I used the bonnet cam, but when I use a wheel in any game I use interior cam. Pcars is still the best for this, with the ability to move the seating position around in each car to get an interior view in each car that you're comfortable with. It'd be nice if PD added that feature, but they'd have to get rid of the standards first. I wouldn't mind if all the standards had the "semi-premium" treatment on the outside, say to the quality of the RUF BTR on GT6, but with a proper premium quality interior. I'd be more than happy with that.

 

[Blood*Specter]

They are an eye sore externally and internally. If they are indeed treasures and important to Kaz and his GT legacy, the update them and insure they are realistic in looks and sound...ect. Not only disrespecting customers by selling outdated material. But cheapening the entire game by not doing the working required to update the standard objects.

I would be first in line to by GT7/Sport with a car roster consisting of all updated to next gen cars.
Just think of a Next Gen Supra, or RUF cars in next gen guise with full interior views. Come on PD/Kaz........Really? 👎

 

[FosterG]

I think this is the one thing that they need to do more than anything else, they need to select cars that fit into sensible racing categories. Whether that category is "GT3 cars" or "cheap sports cars from the '90s" or "FWD cars under 1.5 litres", any car chosen needs to have a category in which it could sensibly race, even if it's only a one make race. Having a field full of Red Bull Juniors racing each other makes total sense. A field full of Pikes Peak Quattros not so much.

I think both the car list and the single player mode would benefit a lot from this kind of symbiotic development. At the moment they appear to be very disjointed, the cars are chosen according to some not readily apparent criteria, and the career mode makes do with whatever cars are available.



I suspect even you would have a line below which it wouldn't be worth it, be that PS1 graphics, the afore-posted Stunt Car graphics, or four disconnected wheels rolling along the road.

I could be wrong, but I think for everyone there's a level at which their brain is no longer capable of a sufficient level of abstraction, and what is supposed to be cues for your imagination just becomes a clutter of distracting stuff on the screen. Maybe your level is lower than most, but I think "if it moves it's fine" is a bit disingenuous. There's a point at which without the visuals it's no longer particularly fun to drive.

Very well put, the other component in all this is photomode. It is hugely disappointing to have a car you love and want to photograph which is just a disaster in photomode.

 

[GBalao888]

Sure, games like Forza may had have some duplicates but the count of duplicates weren't as insane as GT and the quality of cars were way ahead of their time. PD must delete all the unnecessary duplicates of some cars (some unnecessary variants of the factory-spec Skyline, S2000, Miata, etc.) and just only take the ones that matter and make every single car in the game premium. And PD must drop their "shokunin" method of having one man to model one car, and must make the modelling team work together all at once so more cars can arrive at a faster rate and more cars can become premium.

 

[synon]

And PD must drop their "shokunin" method of having one man to model one car, and must make the modelling team work together all at once so more cars can arrive at a faster rate and more cars can become premium.

I doubt that would make that much difference, there is probably still going to be a similar amount of man-hours required to model the cars.

Makes me laugh when people say this. You're basically saying you're ok with standard cars, as long as they're not standard cars.

Standards with improved exteriors are still standards.

 

[syntex123]

Standards with improved exteriors are still standards.

But still, a semi-premium (or updated standard if you will) is far better than standard-standard.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But still, a semi-premium (or updated standard if you will) is far better than standard-standard.

On paper yes, but if that is the case it'll still be the only game without 100% current gen content. I'd rather they take the effort put into converting standards and just use it to remodel the most iconic standards into full premiums that are good forever or at least until we move into the holoworld. I don't even care if it's 10:1, ie., 10 upgraded standards = 1 new premium. After spending a year driving nothing but cars fully modeled from top to bottom, it would be like stepping back 15 years in gaming to find cars without interiors and/or less than premium exteriors in the game.

 

[Tornado]

If remodeled (like the Ruf models, not Alpine) Standard cars are still Standards (because they don't have interiors?) what are VGT cars?

 

[syntex123]

I'd say premiums without interior, as interior isn't a big deal for me until they give us a better FOV adjusting tool.

 

[TheAnimeDude]

I don't want standard cars because they break the immersion of a *cough* "Driving Simulator"

 

[Blood*Specter]

Where do we post about making the game a REAL simulator? Allowing proper camber adjustment for each wheel?
And having active tire pressure and temperatures, Engine temperatures, radiator cooling and brake ducting/cooling? Where do we ask about realistic damper/spring settings?

 

[Tornado]

Where do we post about making the game a REAL simulator? Allowing proper camber adjustment for each wheel?
And having active tire pressure and temperatures, Engine temperatures, radiator cooling and brake ducting/cooling? Where do we ask about realistic damper/spring settings?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gran-turismo-sport-physics-thread-poll.315350/

 

[Samus]

I doubt that would make that much difference, there is probably still going to be a similar amount of man-hours required to model the cars.



Standards with improved exteriors are still standards.

Not really. A standard is a standard. The original definition of a standard car was born with GT5, it's a car straight out of GT3/4 looking pretty horrid. It's an official PD born term. Cars described by fans as semi-premium, like the RUFs, do not fit that bill. They've been heavily re-worked and look miles better, as we know. It would be incredibly misleading to say they're still the same thing.