For those that object to GTS or GT7 having Std Cars, what is your reason?

[GETEDA]

Im looking for a comfortable chair because also want premiums, I think these s/premiums will be acceptable in ps4, next-gen standards lol

 

[MisterWaffles]

If they are able to keep the good looking standards, and update a few more. Then they were to add interiors to them, I think it would easily be able to keep up with Project CARS.

I went into photomode in the game and had a look at the P1 headlights. Somewhat jagged. So I feel this could be a fair contest.

 

[ColouredBadger]

To all 'Standard' fans:

You compare any updated standard car to the worst modelled car in Forza 5/6 or Project CARS and tell me if they fit with those on the same level... That is the standard for PS4 now. Semi-Premium cars are quite simply a joke to put in a game on PS4.

As I've said. There are a few cars that I love which are standard, but I'd happily go without those cars to have a consistent 'premium' look throughout the game. GT6 has 1200+ cars, around 720 are standard, and around 500 are premium. Just copying and pasting the premiums from GT6 to GT7, or GT Sport equals the car count to Forza 6 (just about). That's without any new assets being made for the game. I'd say there'd be a realistic total of 600 cars if they were to do that, counting in any new assets. More than enough to still hold the title of 'most cars' in a racing game, and they'll all be high quality, and most importantly the same quality.

That is what a lot of people share an opinion on when it comes to this topic. Consistent quality

GT Sport should be primarily premium race cars (at a guess), almost like a GT HD-2 to showcase the prettiness of the PS4 and what it can do with the "Next" Gran Turismo title. They will then ruin that by adding 700+ crappy made cars, made for a PS2 and we all have to bend over and take it because it's got to a point where it's just what Polyphony Digital do with their games.


[EDIT]

Now, I've never been a fan of Forza, or it's graphical styles (will not go into this as it's irrelevant), but here is a comparison from the picture posted trying to support the Standards, to what it has to equal on the next-gen in Forza 6.



Can the 'Standard' fans seriously say that the FTO is on the same level as the Alfa? because if you can, then the problem is far worse than I imagined. Forza isn't even the best graphical racing game out there (in my opinion) but it still beats the Semi-Premiums by a mile and a half.

This is why Premiums should be THE only type of car in any future Gran Turismo title.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Just look here. What's so ugly about having semi premiums in the game? These three doesn't look too bad.

Yes, I touched them up by gently brushing over three or so areas. But still. They do look good, don't they? (Yes the Levin is far behind on both pics but it doesn't look bad)

I'm kind of on the fence. Can I see a cockpit view?

All of which would work well in PD's favor.

As the man himself said:

My bet is that we'll see 200 new premiums (at most) with the arrival of GT7, as that's about how many were introduced with GT6. In the event that PD goes through with leaving standards behind, that leaves them with 600+ cars. Their marketing team could then hop on that "largest car count" train once again.

@syntex123 If all standards looked like that, then I personally would not mind them appearing in GT7, but they don't.

A lot of standard models don't actually look that bad, it's their textures that are the issue. Examples would be the CLK-LM and Ford GT LM Race Cars.

There were less than 100 unique new premiums in GT6 at launch, not 200.

 

[GETEDA]

Im a fan maybe, because with standards or not im thinking in buy that, you can choice a forza, pcars, nfs, etc

 

[Eks]

There were less than 100 unique new premiums in GT6 at launch, not 200.

I stand corrected. 👍

 

[MisterWaffles]

Here's a Project CARS McLaren P1. You can see the polygons. GT6's Premiums and some select few standards look comparable, such as this Ruf:

 

[ColouredBadger]

View attachment 501209

Here's a Project CARS McLaren P1. You can see the polygons. GT6's Premiums and some select few standards look comparable, such as this Ruf:


View attachment 501212

You can't show an extreme close-up of one game and then another from the other side of the track as an argument. Do a close-up on both cars when making examples to try and prove your point instead of selecting photos to boost an argument... If the comparison is an equal one, then make it fairly.

 

[MisterWaffles]

You can't show an extreme close-up of one game and then another from the other side of the track as an argument. Do a close-up on both cars when making examples to try and prove your point instead of selecting photos to boost an argument... If the comparison is an equal one, then make it fairly.

post has been updated

 

[ColouredBadger]

post has been updated

Still could do with being closer though, to a point of showing just the headlight.

I'm on the side of GT, always have been. This is where I say that some GT6 premium cars equal next gen cars. That's why simple copy and paste would be enough in that respect. But we can't have 4 or 5 different levels of quality in a modern game.

 

[Samus]

View attachment 501209

Here's a Project CARS McLaren P1. You can see the polygons. GT6's Premiums and some select few standards look comparable, such as this Ruf:

View attachment 501215

Yes, but how many non-premium cars look as good as that RUF? Not many, that is the point. It and the other RUF are an exception in quality, not the norm.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Yes, but how many non-premium cars look as good as that RUF? Not many, that is the point. It and the other RUF are an exception in quality, not the norm.

Yes, but that's all in the sake of a fair comparison, the crappy standards like the certain K-car I don't even want anywhere near GT6. I just took the best of the worst.

 

[CSLACR]

No standards are 10 years old. They're older. 12-16 years old, to be reasonably precise. GT4 launched in 2004, GT3 in 2001, meaning standards from GT4 are as old as 15 years, and any from GT3 are closer to 2 decades old than 1.

I think the "great debate" is actually more about eyesight than anything. People with poor eyesight wouldn't notice the differences as much, I even had my wife verify it for me. She only sees a very small difference, which makes sense, given her poor eyesight. (Let the "I have 20/20 vision" comments commence!)

 

[Imari]

View attachment 501209

Here's a Project CARS McLaren P1. You can see the polygons. GT6's Premiums and some select few standards look comparable, such as this Ruf:

View attachment 501215

While you're correct, the P1 also has an interior and modelling beyond the surface of the car.

The level of external modelling that cars like that RUF have is fine, IMO. The problem with them then becomes the other things that they're missing out on. Most importantly interiors and support for a passable damage model, both of which have become pretty much standard in the genre in the 15 years since GT4.

The upgraded standards on PS4 would be much like the standards on PS3, barely passable but at a significant remove from the quality of the rest of the game. It would still very much be a two tier system.

I think the "great debate" is actually more about eyesight than anything. People with poor eyesight wouldn't notice the differences as much, I even had my wife verify it for me. She only sees a very small difference, which makes sense, given her poor eyesight. (Let the "I have 20/20 vision" comments commence!)

It's also about how closely you look at cars.

Think about a normal person looking at a train, versus a trainspotter. A model could have any number of minor things wrong with it, but to a normal person it still looks more or less like a train. To a trainspotter, those minor errors stick out like a sore thumb.

While the majority of customers for something like Gran Turismo are probably the "normal" person, it's very much marketed towards an enthusiast crowd. Part of it's claim to fame is it's authenticity, which should mean that even enthusiasts (as many of us here probably are) are satisfied with the level of detail.

 

[syntex123]

Because as has been said countless, countless times, not all standard cars are equal in looks AND it's not just about how they look on the outside. Standards lack in a cockpit entirely and also have many other restrictions when it comes to modifications. Oh, and touching them up post-game is totally cheating.

Is it really? I did less than what PD would do. I can post the original pics. Not a whole lot different than the ones you commented.

You can't show an extreme close-up of one game and then another from the other side of the track as an argument. Do a close-up on both cars when making examples to try and prove your point instead of selecting photos to boost an argument... If the comparison is an equal one, then make it fairly.

Does this help?

Based on this, I'd say pCars is the same as the good looking semi-premiums.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That Eclipse headlight isn't nearly on the same level of detail.

But show us the insides of all three now.

 

[ImaRobot]

Is it really? I did less than what PD would do. I can post the original pics. Not a whole lot different than the ones you commented.


Does this help?

View attachment 501405 View attachment 501406

Based on this, I'd say pCars is the same as the good looking semi-premiums.

Because that's a game that focused and put priority on physics and the actual driving/racing aspect, rather than outright beauty. The games priorities are in two completely different areas. The good thing is that PCars is consistent inside and out, and it's very easy to overlook that considering the idea they had in mind. Which was to produce a game that is higher on the simulation spectrum.

Is it really? I did less than what PD would do. I can post the original pics. Not a whole lot different than the ones you commented.

You did something that PD wouldn't do. They don't just go in on photoshop and touch up a bit of jagged edges, it's not that easy.

 

[syntex123]

That Eclipse headlight isn't nearly on the same level of detail.

But show us the insides of all three now.

Of course the headlight of the Eclipse is jagged, but if you look elsewhere it actually looks decent. Better textures of he light reflecting in there and it would look better.

Why would I show the inside when everyone know it's black? Wonder what this has to do with what I talk about, the outside. I know people want interiors, I do to, but my posts were about exterior only.

 

[Imari]

Is it really? I did less than what PD would do. I can post the original pics. Not a whole lot different than the ones you commented.


Does this help?

View attachment 501405 View attachment 501406

Based on this, I'd say pCars is the same as the good looking semi-premiums.

Except that it's not.

As I said before, even if those exteriors are the same*, the GT versions are lacking the interiors and under the surface modelling of engines, suspension and other components that the pCARS models have.

Interiors are not even an option in a modern simulation game any more. GT is the only modern simulation that I can think of that doesn't have cockpits. The next in line being Grid 2, which is hardly a simulation, and which Codies promptly decided was a 🤬-up and backpedalled in Grid:AS.

And some form of damage is pretty mandatory as well, which necessitates modelling some of the substructure if you want to have something that looks better than the melty-face stuff in GT5.

The upgraded premiums are maybe halfway to where they need to be to not be dragging a PS4 version of GT down.

*Which is dubious when you've already admitted to touching them up.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Of course the headlight of the Eclipse is jagged, but if you look elsewhere it actually looks decent. Better textures of he light reflecting in there and it would look better.

Why would I show the inside when everyone know it's black? Wonder what this has to do with what I talk about, the outside. I know people want interiors, I do to, but my posts were about exterior only.

If you don't mind me asking: what is your point, then? "Some of the super-Standards look sort of okay, from the outside only, in certain aspects?"

Touching up the images post-game most certainly isn't comparing fairly. It's also a lot more than PD would do... or else they would've done it. We're still not as zoomed in on the GT6 images, either. I suppose it gets harder to prove a point when you're confronted with a simple texture for a headlight like the Eclipse.

Less than an 1/8th of the Standard roster got the "upgrade" treatment between GT5 and GT6 releasing. That was in three years. We're two years out from GT6 now, so unless PD has massively shifted priority to not add to the Premium lineup (which is doubtful, but I suppose possible), or turned to a massive outsourcing program, they won't be getting a huge chunk of them "upgraded" in time for GT Sport. Even if they did, the cars would still be of a lower quality than the rest of the genre.

These "super-Standards"/"semi-Premiums" are wastes of time, as they're still built off outdated assets. The Premiums (which really should be "Standard" by now) might've been too much detail for the PS3, but it makes them perfectly usable for PS4. I can only think of a handful of improvements they need (the Gallardo's wheelarches were surprisingly jagged, considering), and that's not even bothering with under-hood modelling. Anything built off the old one-piece approach is going to lag far behind the competition in terms of visual modifications and damage modelling.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Is it really? I did less than what PD would do. I can post the original pics. Not a whole lot different than the ones you commented.


Does this help?

View attachment 501405 View attachment 501406

Based on this, I'd say pCars is the same as the good looking semi-premiums.

You mean the same except for not having an interior so cockpit view is almost useless, it's not a fully modeled car so the damage model won't be the same as for premium cars which can lose individual parts, body panels etc., and in photomode the standard looks exactly the same vs. a premium that would look like this?

 

[syntex123]

You all know that in the last post I made the images was untouched? No edits what so ever. They aren't that different than the ones I touched up, are they?

 

[ImaRobot]

You all know that in the last post I made the images was untouched? No edits what so ever. They aren't that different than the ones I touched up, are they?

That does nothing to help their case.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Of course the headlight of the Eclipse is jagged, but if you look elsewhere it actually looks decent. Better textures of he light reflecting in there and it would look better.

Why would I show the inside when everyone know it's black? Wonder what this has to do with what I talk about, the outside. I know people want interiors, I do to, but my posts were about exterior only.

Part of the objection to standards is the lack of interior, so if we're having a discussion about the objection to standards, which is the whole idea behind this thread, then interiors are going to come up. I know everyone plays differently, but personally I don't drive from the headlight view on the track, I use cockpit so it's kind of important to me.

 

[syntex123]

Of course of course, but I only said that some standards / semi-premiums do look good, and why does everyone bite my head off for me having an opinion? Thought this thread like every other thread was about people having separate opinions. I think this is getting personal now, stop biting my head off just because I'm saying the pics I took looked decent. You all can have different opinions, but don't attack me.

 

[ImaRobot]

Part of the objection to standards is the lack of interior, so if we're having a discussion about the objection to standards, which is the whole idea behind this thread, then interiors are going to come up. I know everyone plays differently, but personally I don't drive from the headlight view on the track, I use cockpit so it's kind of important to me.

I myself use cockpit, religiously. It's to the point that any other view is a bit odd to me and I can't get into the groove if it's anything but. It was one of the reason I always avoided the standards in the past, and I was far from pleased with the the black cardboard cutout's they introduced.

Of course of course, but I only said that some standards / semi-premiums do look good, and why does everyone bite my head off for me having an opinion? Thought this thread like every other thread was about people having separate opinions. I think this is getting personal now, stop biting my head off just because I'm saying the pics I took looked decent. You all can have different opinions, but don't attack me.

The problem is that you're excluding something major, that is very much part of the discussion, to skew favor. The problem is that you're getting upset for having to explain your opinion. No one is biting your head off, just asking for an explanation to what you're posting. I'm not understanding how you think you're a victim of any sorts.

 

[syntex123]

What I had to say about the pictures I posted:

These three doesn't look too bad.

Interior was not a part of my post, I know interiors lack, I do want interiors in all cars like you guys do, I just wanted to show off two pictures where the semi premiums looked decent. Is this a better explanation of my post? That I liked the pictures I took, and wanted to share them because I thought they looked decent there?

 

[avens]

I just can't defend 75% of cars not having a cockpit view, in a current racing game with a budget of dozens of millions of dollars.

BTW, a positive of removing them that's not been discussed is that 'standards' have the by far biggest amount of 'duplicates'; way more than 'premiums', 'semi-good' whatever.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Of course of course, but I only said that some standards / semi-premiums do look good, and why does everyone bite my head off for me having an opinion? Thought this thread like every other thread was about people having separate opinions. I think this is getting personal now, stop biting my head off just because I'm saying the pics I took looked decent. You all can have different opinions, but don't attack me.

You didn't just state an opinion though, you said that, "pCars is the same as the good looking semi-premiums", while focusing on a headlignt, which opens up the discussion to the car models as a whole, how complete the car models are in each game etc. It's a discussion thread, we discuss things, if you aren't prepared to create a position and discuss it then you're in the wrong place

 

[syntex123]

@Johnnypenso In a different post than my first one containing just the pictures. And saying what I did about pCars was also my opinion. pCars look like "brick" up close, and the good looking semi premiums are the same. It's just like the saying. Pretty from a far, far from pretty. If you don't like my opinion, so be it. And I'm here and defending my case, discussing it, aren't I? I'm not in the wrong place, as if I wasn't prepared, I wouldn't reply, would I?