- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Further to the Ocon/Perez "problem", this from Vijay:
Vijay Mallya
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Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada 2017Formula 1
- Thread starter SVT Cobra GT
- 336 comments
- 18,751 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Very annoyed that I had the race results spoiled for me by the morning news ...
- 36,636
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
If Perez is angling for a Ferrari drive, his inability to accept team orders is not going to do him any good.
And as to why Ocon couldn't get past him, I would think that the hardest car to overtake is the one that's identical to yours. Every car has an advantage/disadvantage over another car, but if that car is identical to yours (albeit with slightly worse tyres,) what can you do? And if that car is your team mate, slinging one up the inside and possibly taking both off, is breaking rule number 1.
And as to why Ocon couldn't get past him, I would think that the hardest car to overtake is the one that's identical to yours. Every car has an advantage/disadvantage over another car, but if that car is identical to yours (albeit with slightly worse tyres,) what can you do? And if that car is your team mate, slinging one up the inside and possibly taking both off, is breaking rule number 1.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Perez is under obligation if the team order him to do something. That's why I think it was a mistake for Force India to only suggest a course of action rather than to insist on one. Seemingly they do too.
Ocon may well have been fast enough to challenge Ricciardo as his tyres were in far better condition than those of Perez. Making a move on a Red Bull that might block you is far less risky for your career than making a move on a teammate who will certainly block you.
Force India's suggestion to Perez was quite fair, imo: let Ocon through and, if he's unable to make headway against Ricciardo then you get the place back.
- 29,166
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
As alluded to by the Sky commentators, the situation at Force India may be more complex than it appears to the casual viewer... Perez clearly has a lot of influence at Force India for one reason or another, which might explain why the team orders were not delivered with sufficient force to make it clear that he was to allow Ocon through.
Even if he were not obliged to let him through, he should have. The team can see who is quicker and know that the relative strategies are - hence, if the team deem it best to allow Ocon to pass, then Perez should know that this is what the team have decided is their best option. In this instance, they had plenty of laps to let Ocon have his chance at passing Ricciardo and maybe take a podium - Perez could have made that chance happen much sooner, but he refused. From a racing perspective, I can understand Perez's logic, but from a team perspective he has dropped a bollock - and the outcome (neither get past Ricciardo and both are passed by Vettel) is what will anger the team more than anything.
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Thankfully the car that he helped was Vettel's
Overtaking in F1 is hard, and, more importantly, it probably is very hard for a rookie to be uncompromising when overtaking a sister car.
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- SonicCharmeleon
Crazy race! lots of action on track, even after the race! 
Some guy climbed on top of the fence and got everyone from mexico chanting for force india!
edit: forgot to mention if it wasn't clear, I was there!
Some guy climbed on top of the fence and got everyone from mexico chanting for force india!edit: forgot to mention if it wasn't clear, I was there!
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is there any hype in the Canadia for Stroll?Crazy race! lots of action on track, even after the race!
edit: forgot to mention if it wasn't clear, I was there!
- 36,636
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
Ocon was clearly faster than Perez because of his newer tyres which was illustrated by the way Ocon cruised up behind Perez, then Ocon came up against reasons that I mentioned earlier, none of which precluded Ocon from getting by Ricciardo (different car/not teammate.)
- 350
- ???
- SonicCharmeleon
- 626
- Northern Ireland
- GTRP_mirial
Maybe I'm alone here, but the most irritating thing about one of the best GPs in the calendar are those damn trackside camera angles which don't do anything other than offer the best compromise between pleasing sponsors and trying to convey in a superficial way, how 'fast' and 'spactacular' it is.
I remember when camera angles used to track cars on the approach to the corners from a good vantage point at most of them where it was much easier to compare one driver from another relative to the track itself. Is F1 so hard up that it must try entice folk way beyond the scope of those that are naturally drawn to car racing naturally?
I remember when camera angles used to track cars on the approach to the corners from a good vantage point at most of them where it was much easier to compare one driver from another relative to the track itself. Is F1 so hard up that it must try entice folk way beyond the scope of those that are naturally drawn to car racing naturally?
- 36,636
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
He needs more brave pills. On a few occasions when he came up behind someone on the back straight, he lifted off when they picked their line, instead of keeping it planted and going the other way.
- 1,328
- NRW
- Vinylshark
I'm slightly confused about the :censored:storm towards Perez for not obeying the team order to let Ocon pass. Whenever Ferrari tells Kimi to let Vettel pass, or Mercedes tells Bottas to let Lewis pass, there's always a huge :censored:storm towards the teams for interfering and not letting them race each other.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 36,636
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
Yeah, I think he did OK too.
And the other over-used stat from the weekend is that Stroll becomes the first Canadian to score points in F1 (whose name isn't Villeneuve.)
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People were writing Perez off when he got beaten by Button and look at all the hype he's got now. They can't all be Lewis/Max.
- 1,837
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- FutureF1
For a team like Force India, it's more of a different story. People dislike team orders in big teams because that could change the outcome of who is the winner at the end of the day. By not letting Ocon through, Perez limited the team's points tally for the day which for a small team is all that matters.
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- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I actually think Stroll did a decent job as well. I do agree with many that he could use some slightly bigger attachments at times, but he ran an pretty uneventful race. He just needs to get more solid finishes like this and be abit more assertive on the track (not Max Verstappen mode just yet, but less passive when it comes to opportunities to pass.).
- 1,328
- NRW
- Vinylshark
I don't agree with you there. In my eyes you can't say it's ok for teams XYZ, but god forbid if teams ABC do it. Either you say "all teams can do it" or you say "none team can do it". Despite, how often have we seen in the past that one driver claims to be faster than his teammate and after switching positions he can't even pull away from his teammate.
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- HamiltonMP427
I think the difference here is that those situations are because the slower team mate is holding up the faster one who is leading the driver's championship. In this situation FI are fighting with RBR for third in points, which is a first for FI and could mean massive money. They need to maximize the points where they can and whenever they can. If Ocon could have passed Dan, it would have been huge, cause as others have said, he could have then backed him into his team mate and set up a pass for Sergio.
A 3 and 4 for FI would have been much better than the 4 and 6 they got.
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- 16,094
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- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I think Ricciardo should be thankful that Perez made things difficult for Ocon, otherwise he might not have had a podium finish.
So I'm not complaining!
So I'm not complaining!
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
True... but that rather misses the point. We've established that all the teams can do it. After that you can only assess when they should do it on a case-by-case basis. In this particular case the performance advantage seemed to be with Ocon therefore it was suggested to Perez that he let Ocon past. If Ocon hadn't been able to pass Ricciardio then Perez would have got the place back.
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- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
This. If Ocon was let through Vettel wouldn't have caught him. He profited directly from defensive moves by Perez when getting by Ocon. If he wasn't being held up it wouldn't have been so easy for Vettel (or Ricciardo for that matter). Perez was a sitting duck, he was always going to get passed by the drivers on better tyres sooner or later.
I would be furious if I were Ocon, or for that matter the team, but as had already been said, Perez is their talisman and probably has more power than we know.
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Not sure, don't remember cameras being that bad, in general this year has been an improvement in that regard (less ultralow FOV shots from the front with massive sponsor logos).
When you mean tracking shots, do you mean something like the boom camera in nurburgring hairpin? (first one that comes to mind).
I personally i'm more irritated by those over the shoulder onboard cameras
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- GTRP_mirial
I mean when the cars used to be tracked for several seconds on the approach to most corners in Canada. Interlagos and Suzuka seem to have gone the same way also. It just makes TV viewing unsettling in my opinion ....it's a technical sport, not a movie trailer for kids. I know Jenson Button said that TV doesn't convey the speed of F1 very well, but this doesn't really matter to those who are really into it. The speed could be conveyed every now and again on the fastest corners or straights using low FOV shots as a reminder, but those of us that are watching on TV are more likely to be interested in watching it using camera views which convey as much as possible in the most settled fashion.
Same thing with GT replays too....it's all a bit silly, and it's most likely why we have to use chase view when reviewing Q laps and incidents etc.
I'm ok with the behind driver's head views....I wish the TV directors would just stay fixed on certain cars for longer.
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i don't know, people on reddit, who are fairly hardcore fans i would say are complaining about high FOV views quiet a lot saying how it doesnt convey speed well and directors only do that to show as much commercial real estate as they can. The problem is wide screen TVs, there is nothing a director can do to make a car appear as fast on a wide screen as it did back in the day on 4x3.
