Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021Formula 1

[Liquid]

Hamilton knew what he was doing

So did Verstappen.

 

[ShiftingGears]

This guy seems to know what he's talking about with situations like the one yesterday with Max and Lewis

Do you realise he said that quote just after he deliberately crashed into Prost lol

Lewis decided that he was going to leave the corner in the lead one way or another

So did Verstappen.

He gave him space. Any other passes at Copse have the inside car actually on the apex, like Bottas in 2019 or Hamilton on Leclerc. It's no place for a block pass.

Its not the first time that Hamilton has coincidentally ran wide into contact when a car in front on his outside threatens to take the race win.

 

[kjeldsen]

This is why it was a racing incident, both cars are alongside into the corner and Verstappen isn't committed yet, and from here it is all about who is letting the other pass. I think Verstappen made a mistake by letting the inside be open.

And i would go as far and say that if it wasn't for the huge crash there would have been no penalty to Lewis.

 

[BrainsBush]

After the race Vettel decided to clean the grand stands. It seems it was his own decision and not driven by his management/marketing team. Kudos for that!!

 

[shoemaker]

Given he was all over max in the slipstream, He probably should have just waited until the hanger straight as that would have been easier, 25% max 75% Hams fault. Its stoked the fire now for the rest of the season, iam loving it ! This is what i want in F1, racing hard at the front.

 

[NickGuy]

what a weekend

 

[Com Fox]

After the race Vettel decided to clean the grand stands. It seems it was his own decision and not driven by his management/marketing team. Kudos for that!!


View attachment 1068505

These past few years have really gotten me to really like and respect Vettel. Though might be biased as I work as a Cleaner right now but I like when people appreciate how important it is and/or contribute.

 

[Kamil Cader]

"Race incident", and yet, Hamilton is being given "FIA-official" 10 sec penalty for causing a colision.



listen at 2:55.

I know even good sim racing drivers are capable of such precise take-off's.
...curtain down.

edit: yeach, Youtube video for Silverstone higlights.....

 

[MaxAttack]

This Grand Prix really was a field day for the "stonkingly bad Twitter take" crowd. Even Horner and Marko threw their hat in the running for "dumbest, most short sighted take".

All this talk - ALL THIS TALK - about we want a race and a fight and these guys get together once and we are out here using phrases like attempted murder, and of course all the racism and idiocy that goes along with it.

I try to be bi-partisan about F1 - I appreciate every team and their talented engineers and drivers, but this is the last nail in the coffin for me having any sympathy towards that Red Bull organisation. I already held them in very low esteem after their treatment of Gasly and Albon (#freealbon) but I thought Horner was incredibly disrespectful and petty towards Hamilton trying to spin the whole crowd to his side. Whilst leaning on Max being in hospital to try and call Lewis dirty, he was very eager to not mention that this was procedure and that max was ok while on broadcast. Kudos to the medical driver they interviewed who made the situation plain and clear without bias and removed any nasty assumption that Lewis had injured Max (some even going so far as to imply deliberately...)

This is trashy behaviour from Horner, while it's perfectly understandable that his emotions were running high, calling Lewis dirty and saying he had no business being there is highly dishonest especially from a chap who has been on the other side of his drivers taking people out of the race enough times by now.

So, entering the dumb take hall of fame will be the following paraphrased beauties from around the net;

"Hamilton has destroyed his reputation and shown he's always been dirty and has no respect"

"Hamilton is just mad because he doesn't get to cruise in a dominant car lol, shows how he never deserved any wins"

"Well now Verstappen knows you only get 10s for spearing someone off he can just do that to Hamilton" (as if spearing someone off at 190 and keeping your car undamaged enough to race is even remotely possible to do deliberately)

"Lewis only got 10s because F1 is so British focused they wouldn't dare penalise a British driver because muh British bias." Sorry, but there's been enough Sky Sports tongue up Verstappen's backside these past few years, I'm not sure what you've all been watching. This was the British Grand Prix - people are going to focus on the home drivers. That doesn't change that this is the sport of Fangio, Ascari, Lauda, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Hakkinen, etc etc...

And of course anything racially motivated, which doesn't even qualify as a dumb take, only as reprehensible and embarrassing.

As for the actual grand Prix - enjoyable to see Charles leading and hear his always enthralling focus and push down the radio. Classy race for McLaren, and some positivity for Daniel. Fernando was electric all weekend, such an all out driver.

 

[lancashire lad]

The only proper use of that quote is when someone deliberately crashes into their competitor and wants to justify it...

Do you realise he said that quote just after he deliberately crashed into Prost lol

Lewis decided that he was going to leave the corner in the lead one way or another



He gave him space. Any other passes at Copse have the inside car actually on the apex, like Bottas in 2019 or Hamilton on Leclerc. It's no place for a block pass.

Its not the first time that Hamilton has coincidentally ran wide into contact when a car in front on his outside threatens to take the race win.

I'm quite aware of the senna/prost incidents, the point I was making was both drivers had no intention of backing out and I hope the season brings more of it (without any injuries obviously).

 

[Famine]

I already held them in very low esteem after their treatment of Gasly and Albon

But according to Helmut Marko, it was Hamilton that destroyed Albon's career...

 

[Jimlaad43]

After an evening to digest everything from the incident, here's some thoughts.

1. Lewis knows that the Red Bull is faster in the race, and therefore he has to get past on Lap 1. The first few corners were insane as the two of them didn't want to back down. Both knew that they needed the lead.
2. Overtaking into Copse has always happened. Lewis was passed by Bottas there in 2019, he tried it in the Sprint lap 1 and Alonso went around the outside of Norris there on Saturday too. The comments Red Bull made about "you don't pass there" are ignorant and ludicrous.
3. Max left Lewis some room, but only enough for Lewis to make the apex perfectly. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does leave you vulnerable on a high risk position.
4. Lewis had a mega run, was far enough alongside at the "braking" point that he had every right to say the move was on. He deserved space that Max just about gave.
5. Lewis misjudged how much extra he'd have to slow down, Max misjudged how much margin for error he left. On a full tank of fuel on lap 1 on the inside, anything could happen. Max's line assumed that Lewis would either A: Back out or B: hit the apex perfectly. As Hamilton didn't, contact ensued. Both were at fault.
6. The seriousness of the crash shouldn't really ever be a reason to penalise. I saw no penalty for Kvyat after Grosjean's Bahrain crash as it was a Racing Incident, with Romain being the causer, but not the one to blame (there is a difference). Stewards will look up until after the collision, so stop watching once Max is backwards. The comments about wanting a ban or "He tried to kill Max" are beyond ridiculous.
7. Lewis did get terminal damage from the collision, he was just lucky they could fix it in the Red Flag.
8. 10 second penalty would not have been for giving Lewis the blame, it just gives him a penalty as well. Both drivers at fault for avoidable contact, but Max's penalty was a DNF. 10s may not seem like much, but as there was nothing malicious or deliberate about the crash they can't do much more than that. At least it gave us an exciting final few laps with a pass for the lead.
9. Also Lewis managed to make 2 more passes into Copse that race, showing that of the car on the inside hits the apex and the one on the outside complies, you can easily get through without contact. Sainz vs Grosjean is the only other time I can think of F1 cars colliding there so it's not like it's a routine collision spot.

Effectively, the guy in 2nd needed to make a move on that lap, and wasn't given enough space to make a mistake by the guy who could afford to let him through at a high risk corner. We're talking split-second reaction at one of the fastest proper corners on the calendar. It's like Russell vs Bottas at Imola, where the tiniest of margins at 200mph can cause monumental accidents, but the size of the crash makes no difference as a collision at 50mph into a slow chicane can be exactly the same circumstances as this one.
That's where the confusion and craziness has come from. Big crash does not automatically mean big penalty. Yes, it was a massive hit and I'm glad Max is OK, it was a sickening sight, but it wasn't like Leclerc in Sakhir or Grosjean at Spa 2012 levels of mistakes or ignorance respectively that caused the crash. Just two drivers flat out giving no quarter for the umpteenth time this season finally getting it wrong. Max is playing the victim, Red Bull are ruining that for him and Lewis got lucky with the Red Flag. None of it was intentional or a major mistake, so it's a shame it takes a massive shine off what is a record-equalling 8th victory at the same Grand Prix. I'm just glad that wasn't win #100.

 

[Outspacer]

No need to drive off the track, just adapt the speed and maintain a wider line to make sure there is enough room for both cars. I agree that it wasn’t a smart move by Hamilton, but Verstappen wasn’t being very clever either. Being on the outside he should have realised that the slightest contact would likely send him off the track, so taking such an aggressive line was not in his best interest.

At the speed he had, I reckon he would have been right on/over the kerb if he'd adjusted his line out - to live on, but cede the place. There was enough room for Hamilton on the inside, but braking hard was washing him out wide - Lewis wasn't where he wanted to be.

 

[DivitLad]

These past few years have really gotten me to really like and respect Vettel. Though might be biased as I work as a Cleaner right now but I like when people appreciate how important it is and/or contribute

Once there out the car and you get too see their real personality makes a big difference on how you view them as a person. really despised vettel when he's racing but he's a nice person out of the car.

 

[mustafur]

This is why it was a racing incident, both cars are alongside into the corner and Verstappen isn't committed yet, and from here it is all about who is letting the other pass. I think Verstappen made a mistake by letting the inside be open.

And i would go as far and say that if it wasn't for the huge crash there would have been no penalty to Lewis.

That does ignore the fact the corner is a wide entry corner so Verstappen has the advantage of being able to do the corner much faster from there where Hamilton would need to lift more, both drivers would know this, which is why I think verstappen was in the right to think he would be able to do the corner like he did with the space he provided.

 

[Nessy]

That does ignore the fact the corner is a wide entry corner so Verstappen has the advantage of being able to do the corner much faster from there where Hamilton would need to lift more, both drivers would know this, which is why I think verstappen was in the right to think he would be able to do the corner like he did with the space he provided.

I don't think Max was right in assuming that, (if indeed that's what he assumed). I think at the point Max boxed Lewis in down the straight, and where they both were in relation to the upcoming corner/curve (pretty much even alongside one another), no one particular driver has the right to claim that corner was theirs.
I think Hamilton went in too fast, and Verstappen pinched too early. So i personally can't see it any other way than a race incident.

(bolded the bit i'm referring to)

 

[ShiftingGears]

I'm quite aware of the senna/prost incidents, the point I was making was both drivers had no intention of backing out and I hope the season brings more of it (without any injuries obviously).

Agreed

 

[McLaren]

Whatever your view, this is unacceptable.

Lewis Hamilton racially abused online after British Grand Prix win

Lewis Hamilton is the target of racist abuse on social media after his victory in Sunday's British Grand Prix.

www.bbc.co.uk

Verstappen's team Red Bull Racing said it was "disgusted and saddened" at the abuse directed towards Hamilton.

"While we may be fierce rivals on-track, we are all united against racism," the team said in a statement. "We condemn racist abuse of any kind towards our team, our competitors and our fans.

"There is never any excuse for it, there is certainly no place for it in our sport and those responsible should be held accountable."

Kind of goes back to a post I made earlier. Emotions are high, but at the end of the day, these guys are still likely going to talk to each other in private and work it out. Athletes aren't as blood thirsty as some fans lure themselves into believing & there's zero need for fans to act as their personal soldiers by attacking competitors online.


Not directing this at you Magpie, just my take on the exert from the article.

 

[Samus]

The seriousness of the crash shouldn't really ever be a reason to penalise.

...which the FIA have come out and again clarified for the thousands calling on them to do so. Whether Max ended up in the barriers or he just span and continued on his way the 10 second penalty would have been the same, and that is correct.

F1 penalties don't reflect consequences of incidents - Masi

www.motorsport.com

Also importantly, it was the teams who agreed on this.

"If you look at it in that particular circumstance so that is why going back a few years the teams, or team principals, made a clear distinction that they didn't want consequences taken into account they wanted it based on the incident itself.

 

[ShiftingGears]

This Grand Prix really was a field day for the "stonkingly bad Twitter take" crowd.

I thought that was every day

 

[Samus]

Fan video of Verstappen going into the wall, really fast. The crowd even get a bit of carbon fibre and gravel flung at them, but nobody was injured.

 

[JuanAP95X]

 

[Famine]

Now, I'm not saying that Red Bull are responsible for racists - they are not; racists are gonna racist - but when you have Verstappen ("disrespectful" and "unsportsmanlike"), Horner ("desperate", "sad", "hollow victory"), and Marko ("negligent", "dangerous", "reckless") - never mind the hastily deleted Tweet from Red Bull Germany which simply said "🤡🤡🤡" - there must be a point at which you have to say that encouraging a pile-on because your driver came off worse in a move of the type he's been pulling all season long (including in F1 Sprint the previous day) at least gives opportunity, encouragement, or emboldenment to racists to participate and say the quiet thing loud.

They don't need much of it, because it's always simmering (I mean, it only needed a missed penalty to bring it out last week, so the crash alone would have brought a bunch of them out), but you'd surely have to concede it had an effect.


Incidentally, I note that the official stewarding decision says that "Car 44 did not avoid contact". Sounds awfully familiar.

Also:

 

[Samus]

Most of Red Bull's rhetoric I just ignored, teams defending their own are gonna defend their own but Horner insinuating HAM did it on purpose, likening it to a professional foul in football where they foul on purpose to prevent a goal, was too much. That's a serious accusation and one he doesn't seem to have since repeated for good reason.

 

[kjeldsen]

That does ignore the fact the corner is a wide entry corner so Verstappen has the advantage of being able to do the corner much faster from there where Hamilton would need to lift more, both drivers would know this, which is why I think verstappen was in the right to think he would be able to do the corner like he did with the space he provided.

The corner type does not matter, if you are able to put your car beside the other car before the other car is committed to the corner then you earned that space. That is why defensive driving is a big part of racing, Max left a gap big enough for Lewis to get up on his side.

If Max had left enough space for Lewis then it would be Lewis job to make sure there was space for Max through the corner, but that has never been the strategy Max is known for. Max drives aggressively and usually he is the one that forces the other drivers to back down.

 

[Dotini]

I don't think Max was right in assuming that, (if indeed that's what he assumed). I think at the point Max boxed Lewis in down the straight, and where they both were in relation to the upcoming corner/curve (pretty much even alongside one another), no one particular driver has the right to claim that corner was theirs.
I think Hamilton went in too fast, and Verstappen pinched too early. So i personally can't see it any other way than a race incident.

(bolded the bit i'm referring to)

Do you think the stewards were in error by assessing a penalty for Lewis? Should or could an appeal or petition be mounted to exonerate Lewis?

 

[AshenGraey]

Waking up to all the controversies about this crash and all the social media fire, I have to say I find it really difficult to like Red Bull as a team when you listen to the things Helmut and Horner say sometimes. Horner is always so happy to applaud Max for being an aggressive driver and quick to call it "hard racing" but then when his aggression causes him to crash, it's immediately the other drivers fault...and whenever that other driver is Hamilton, the nonsense that comes out of those guys is unbelievably shocking.

I'm not going to take Hamilton's side on this crash because I still believe that this was none other than a racing incident and they are both to blame. However, I can't help but think that the abuse that Hamilton is now getting on social media was instigated by Helmut and Horner's comments and how they approached the situation. And now seeing Red Bull posting stuff about not standing up for those attacks on his person are just downright hypocritical and distasteful from my perspective. And Verstappen calling him "disrespectful and unsportsmanlike" did not help the situation either....I'm sorry, but what was the guy supposed to do? Give up the win and celebration because you weren't there after you became victim of your own aggression? Despite how I feel about his aggressive driving style, I think he is a superb and really fast driver and I was rooting for him because finally he is in a car fast enough to really challenge and possibly dethrone Lewis and Mercedes for the championship. But now, after reading all those crap from him and his followers, Helmut, Horner and Red Bull, I actually hope Lewis and Mercedes win it again this year cause that was uncalled for. This is racing, **** happens. Sometimes things work in your favor, sometimes they don't. Deal with it and move on.

In my years of watching F1, I've been fairly neutral and have never really being truly loyal to any specific drivers cause I find it more fun to follow all the driver's progress and see how they stack up against each other. From what I've seen from Lewis, I've never known him to be a "dirty driver". While he isn't without his flaws to say that he would deliberately take out another opponent to win is a real stretch. If you believe I'm wrong, feel free to prove it but I would bet that if the table was reversed and Max was the one behind, that crash would probably not have happened because I think Lewis is more calculative than that and would have either gone wide and complain that Max pushed him off the track or back out of it like he did in the sprint cause he knows it's best to finish to get points than DNF'ng and lose more ground in the championship.

 

[McLaren]

Now, I'm not saying that Red Bull are responsible for racists - they are not; racists are gonna racist - but when you have Verstappen ("disrespectful" and "unsportsmanlike"), Horner ("desperate", "sad", "hollow victory"), and Marko ("negligent", "dangerous", "reckless") - never mind the hastily deleted Tweet from Red Bull Germany which simply said "🤡🤡🤡" - there must be a point at which you have to say that encouraging a pile-on because your driver came off worse in a move of the type he's been pulling all season long (including in F1 Sprint the previous day) at least gives opportunity, encouragement, or emboldenment to racists to participate and say the quiet thing loud.

They don't need much of it, because it's always simmering (I mean, it only needed a missed penalty to bring it out last week, so the crash alone would have brought a bunch of them out), but you'd surely have to concede it had an effect.


Incidentally, I note that the official stewarding decision says that "Car 44 did not avoid contact". Sounds awfully familiar.

Also:

Just sharing Alonso's & Danny's takes to go with Charles'.

“It is difficult from the outside,” said Alonso. “It looked quite close, Lewis had more than half a car alongside Max.
“So, in a way, Lewis could not disappear from the inside line, it’s not that you can vanish.
“It was an unfortunate moment of the race, but nothing intentional or nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong in my opinion.
“That was an unlucky moment.”

When you’re in such a high-speed corner and just side-by-side, you’re both going to lose aero, particularly Lewis there with Max kind of in a little bit of dirty air. But I think they were both going in hot.
Ultimately Lewis went in too hot for the for the given level of grip and that’s where you see [he] just drifted up into Max. Completely unintentional, but just the nature of the aero on these cars and [you] just have to allow a little more, but I’m certainly not going to sit here and judge and say he should have done that or that.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I can't remember the last time fans were this divided about an incident - It swings violently between "attempted murder" to "Verstappen should be penalised, not Hamilton!"...

The incident itself I place more blame on Hamilton's side and enough so to justify the penalty. Argument it should be harsher, argument it was too harsh - I feel it was correct as it was. It is a great defence by Verstappen to force Hamilton onto a tight line into the corner, and he even opens up his own line for good measure. Both moves made before the corner ensure that he was likely to lead after Copse if he made the exit of the corner. The only criticism though is why he felt the need to run a line through the corner that left Hamilton exactly 1 cars width. He left Hamilton no room for error, and unfortunately Hamilton did make that error in missing the apex line. Hamilton had every right to try to stay within the battle and feel he had a high ground, but Verstappen unnecessarily once again goes "All in" and expects Hamilton to give up the position. It has been coming for a long time now, the day when Hamilton doesn't feel the need to be bullied away from a fight, and you can't be surprised when Verstappen has everything to lose and is always likely to suffer from an incident more on the outside of the corner.

There is no question hanging over Verstappen that he is a thoroughly quick driver and a future World Champion for sure, but we have been waiting to see whether he had the mental attitude required to win a World Championship in 2021. You don't need to be that aggressive when you are 33 points clear in the Championship, sometimes you need to lose the battle to win the war. As I said above anyway, I felt Verstappen would have lead after the corner even if he had taken the longest line around the outside of Copse, giving Hamilton all of the room he needed on the inside to gather up after being squeezed so well. And even if he didn't lead, he would have been 2nd or 3rd and reducing the points loss to Hamilton. Those sorts of results win Championships, not the 7-10 wins...

All of the afters were just wrong. Christian Horner, Helmut Marko and Max Verstappen are all trying to whip up a storm in the hope that it somehow affects the outcome. The penalty was correct and was served, so that should be it. Seeing Red Bull suggesting they might appeal for a greater penalty is just a pathetic grab... Even the line about celebrating a hollow victory, your telling me that Verstappen and Red Bull wouldn't celebrate winning that race yesterday if roles were reversed?...

 

[GilesGuthrie]

In spite of emotions (very reasonably) being high, Horner and Marko were in full Karen mode yesterday. Their rhetoric was obviously geared to get the biggest penalty possible for Hamilton, but Horner managed to get himself so worked up by the end of the race that I honestly thought he was going to cry. I get that F1 team management is all about PsyOps these days, but I think he'll look back on those comments and cringe.

As to the incident itself... I think this has been coming for a while now. Hamilton knew he needed to get in front to have a chance of winning the race. I think Verstappen knew that as well. Consequently, they both entered lap 1 knowing they needed to be ahead by lap 2. Verstappen had a clear choice of when to turn in. He had clear air, and he knew Hamilton was there. This idea that he didn't know, because "Hamilton stuck his car down the gap" is nonsense - they'd been fully side-by-side when Verstappen was trying to put Hamilton into the old pit wall. And when you're on the outside of a duel, you know that if there's contact, it's you who's heading to the wall on the outside.

Everyone's commenting on how Hamilton was away from the apex on turn-in. What we'll never know is whether Verstappen would have been able to stay on the track at the exit. More than one driver had to give back places won on the outside of Copse during the weekend.

I call it a racing incident.