Formula 1 Rolex Australian Grand Prix 2023Formula 1

[05XR8]

Happy for Zo, but dang, that sucked for all the drivers taken out.

 

[NotThePrez]

And to add insult to injury, Hulkenberg has broken down on the track...bringing out a red flag.

 

[PaMu1337]

I will say that this restart has helped my FF1 no end - Alonso back in 3rd, AM lead constructor, Merc engine 2nd and 3rd.....

Same. I have Alonso and Aston.

@Famine will you be accepting disputes on the finishing order?

 

[MagpieRacer]

They haven't been ignored though. All cars involved in the crashes aren't restarting the race. The collision and lap was still relevant and still counts for race distance. The crash was lap 57, the Red Flag came out on lap 57 before the first sector was over, hence why the race order was reset.

But it did exist.

The penalty makes no sense, it's a daft penalty, they haven't applied their own logic to the scenario and they've applied it in a daft manner.

In sure if it was your lord and saviour Mr Verstappen, your opinion would be vastly different.

 

[pumaATTACK]

They haven't been ignored though. All cars involved in the crashes aren't restarting the race. The collision and lap was still relevant and still counts for race distance. The crash was lap 57, the Red Flag came out on lap 57 before the first sector was over, hence why the race order was reset.

But it did exist.

But why does Alonso spin get nullified? Why does Perez and Strolls mistakes get crossed out.

They literally pick and choose who gets punished.

They should have just let the results of the restart stand as they occurred.

Just a completely butchered ending.

 

[MagpieRacer]

But why does Alonso spin get nullified? Why does Perez and Strolls mistakes get crossed out.

They literally pick and choose who gets punished.

They should have just let the results of the restart stand as they occurred.

Just a completely butchered ending.

100% agree with this. Many mistakes were made but ultimately only Sainz is made to pay, they should have take the order at the micro sectors and taken the order for what it was and then the penalty would have made sense.

 

[pumaATTACK]

 

[MagpieRacer]

Well as the FIA are so anti Red Bull, that should be a slam dunk penalty right @Jimlaad43 ?

 

[PaMu1337]

Interesting question on F1TV: when was the last time we had a podium with only champions? They are thinking it goes back at least 30 years

 

[MagpieRacer]

Interesting question on F1TV: when was the last time we had a podium with only champions? They are thinking it goes back at least 30 years

Think I heard them say 2011 or 2012.

2012 USGP perhaps, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton.

 

[Jimlaad43]

The big thing that has come out from this is just how poorly people (including the FIA) view Safety Cars and Red Flags.


They are there to clear incidents. That is the primary purpose and should always be used just for that. A yellow flag is for an incident or debris which drivers need to respect. If that can't be collected safely, you put a VSC out. If they aren't happy with that, or rules say that you need an SC to put a vehicle out, Safety Car. If an incident is going to take more than ~5 laps under Safety Car, then go Red Flag.

But they are not treated like that at all. Everyone just sees the Safety Car as a strategy tool and drives as close to flat out behind it. It's nominally safer to clear stuff away, but drivers are still racing to catch up and racing out the pitlane. See Suzuka 2022 for why drivers going flat out behind the Safety Car is completely stupid.

A red flag means something serious has happened on track. It should not be being trivialised into an entertainment device because it details literally the entire point of it.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Interesting question on F1TV: when was the last time we had a podium with only champions? They are thinking it goes back at least 30 years

Hungary 2018 • STATS F1

www.statsf1.com

 

[NotThePrez]

That probably should be a slam-dunk penalty, for the sake of consistency if nothing else, since that's been a thing in the last 2 GPs.

 

[PaMu1337]

Think I heard them say 2011 or 2012.

Australia 2012 had Button, Vettel, Hamilton yes

 

[NotThePrez]

Between the start, the on-track action behind the leaders and the ending, this whole Grand Prix was just...

 

[C-ZETA]

None of what happened today should come as a great surprise by modern F1 standards. The decisions made are to achieve the maximum amount of publicity: they have nothing to do with the actual racing itself.

 

[DG_Silva]

That probably should be a slam-dunk penalty, for the sake of consistency if nothing else, since that's been a thing in the last 2 GPs.

Max playing by RB rules - apparently not illegal to be touching the white line, despite not being wholly within the grid box/pit exit lane... TBH, nothing was affected by it too much, but it smacks of the FIA not being absolutely clear regarding the rules, yet again.

 

[TumeK5]

What on earth is FIA thinking with Sainz's penalty? Yes, he did spin Alonso around, but that lap never happened, Alonso retook 3rd. So why penalize Sainz for it??

Inb4 Sainz reinstated, seems to be the trend now.

 

[Liquid]

A bollocks race. Bunching the field up close to the end to spice it up. If only the last two laps matter, might as well just make every race a two lap blast.

 

[Rossell2]

They're down under so they must be looking at the rulebook backwards.. Or something.

 

[Demon Drone]

None of what happened today should come as a great surprise by modern F1 standards. The decisions made are to achieve the maximum amount of publicity: they have nothing to do with the actual racing itself.

Yeah F1 really has turned into a farce now. We're not at nascar levels yet but the people in charge seem hell bent on making sure this sport sells every bit of integrity it has left.

 

[Grayfox]

What on earth is FIA thinking with Sainz's penalty? Yes, he did spin Alonso around, but that lap never happened, Alonso retook 3rd. So why penalize Sainz for it??

Inb4 Sainz reinstated, seems to be the trend now.

I guess it is to punish bad driving and not going.
Oh, don't worry the crash you caused was nullified due to a restart.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Red flag grid restarts are just terrible. That was farcical.

 

[PaMu1337]

Haas has submitted a protest for the results, and have been summoned to the stewards to make their argument. This was an hour ago already, haven't heard about any conclusions.

The Australian Grand Prix Corporation has been summoned to the stewards for:

Spectator track invasion prior to the conclusion of the 2023 Australian Grand Prix.

I was already thinking that spectators managed to get to the grid very quickly

 

[Hayden]

I woulda thought if anyone would be protesting it’d be Alpine. Those guys really had a rough run.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I woulda thought if anyone would be protesting it’d be Alpine. Those guys really had a rough run.

Nothing for them to gain from it. They smashed their cars out, regardless of how the order was decided, they wouldn't have gained anything.

On the subject of the complaints about them red flagging and wanting to conclude the race by racing, I seem to recall there being a lot of backlash in Italy last year when the race finished under safety car conditions, now I know some of the annoyance came from how long it took them to deploy it, but also from the fact we were denied a racing finish. Lots of fans, the drivers and team principals all said it shouldn't happen and races should finish under greens whenever possible. The FIA/F1 have delivered that today, and people are complaining anyway.

The grid start under red flags rule came in to effect because people complained about anti-climactic race resumptions from red flag periods, now they're complaining about grid starts.

The FIA and F1 are between a rock and a hard place, because whatever they do, people will complain and whine about it. There was backlash for the opposite of today happening in Italy, backlash today, backlash in Abu Dhabi, backlash in Monaco a few years ago for the rolling start. And as I say, it's not just the fans, the team's and drivers have all said races should finish under greens not yellows, they've red flagged the race, which a) was the correct decision anyway, and b) ensures resumption of racing to the finish. What they can't do is predict a crash, they can't predict poor driving standards, or car failures. The only thing they can do differently to appease as many people as possible is resume via rolling starts again, but what would have happened today? Everyone would be complaint the Verstappen won by 10 seconds and it would have been more exciting if it was a grid start...

 

[Jimlaad43]

Monza last year was a poorly deployed Safety Car which they mistreated to avoid an Abu Dhabi 2021 situation. The timing of the Safety Cars was similar in these situations, but the execution different.

Australia '23 was a trigger-happy Red Flag after a well-timed Safety Car. The Magnussen crash would have taken 1 lap for Marshals with brooms to sweep up, it was a competition Red Flag, which is the issue.

The third Red Flag after the final restart carnage was justified I feel, but because it was so close to then end, again it could have just been a Safety Car for 1.5 laps to finish the race. Although, with such a clearup job and an impending track invasion, the choice of "if they crash, we go Red" may have already been decided in Race Control before it restarted.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Monza last year was a poorly deployed Safety Car which they mistreated to avoid an Abu Dhabi 2021 situation. The timing of the Safety Cars was similar in these situations, but the execution different.

Australia '23 was a trigger-happy Red Flag after a well-timed Safety Car. The Magnussen crash would have taken 1 lap for Marshals with brooms to sweep up, it was a competition Red Flag, which is the issue.

The third Red Flag after the final restart carnage was justified I feel, but because it was so close to then end, again it could have just been a Safety Car for 1.5 laps to finish the race. Although, with such a clearup job and an impending track invasion, the choice of "if they crash, we go Red" may have already been decided in Race Control before it restarted.

You seem to be oversimplifying Magnussens incident, tyre carcass on track, extremely sharp debris from the wheel strewn across the straight, cars spread out. If they put marshalls on a live track with a short lap across a straight, people complain about safety and say it should be red flagged. There's no argument over the validity of the red flags imo, the only argument that can be made for anything is the restart procedure itself being a grid start 2 laps from the end. But if they do a rolling start, people complain about that anyway.

And as I said with Monza, only part of the argument about that was the safety car delay, but drivers and teams said finishing under safety cars shouldn't happen.

 

[Blitz24]

Fell asleep with about 15 to go so I missed all of the crazy ending which somehow didn't effect the podium.

 

[Jubby]

This race was simply a farce. Multiple situations where the FIA cannot handle themselves and it was to the detriment of the race. NASCAR does a better job and that's not saying much. (I also enjoy NASCAR, too)

If anyone else watched the NASCAR COTA race last weekend, this was very close in the chaos category. Manufactured chaos, which is the problem. In a cost cap era trying to do a "green-white-checker" finish from a standing start is irresponsible for modern times and against the long time ethos of F1.

I'm just glad that the results weren't extremely impacted.