Formula 1 Rolex Großer Preis Von Österreich 2020Formula 1

[Jimlaad43]

Grosjean: Everything about Haas is tragic. 5/10

That 5 is very generous. Did you see his unforced spin at Turn 4 early in the race?

 

[NoobMan DS]

Man, I was really hoping for Albon to get his first podium, it was quite heartbreaking to see him getting tangled with Hamilton again. But then there's Norris' last lap, and watching the time gap between him and Hamilton on the screen was so tense for me. Always a great feeling to see a new podium finisher in F1. And he's alongside Leclerc too (didn't expect a Ferrari getting there) - delighted to see these friends on the podium after seeing their virtual antics together in the past few months. I guess the whole Covid-19 situation limited their interaction to just a handshake afterwards.

Also, honestly I almost chuckled when I saw Vettel spinning; not that I hate him though. But the word "sbinnala" on a picture of Mattia Binotto on his phone just instantaneously played in my head.

On the podium I thought they were just gonna stop with the champagne after Bottas took the first sip, but I was wrong and they were still spraying it around.

What an exciting and eventful race, I was very happy and satisfied that I decided to see it. It's partly because of the "wrong reason" - lots of potentially dangerous mechanical problems that changed the order, and not so much about pure track battles. But I'd be lying if I say I wasn't entertained. The last F1 GP I watched that is not a rerun was in 2016.

 

[DesertPenguin]

At what point do you think this was and how do you propose he backs off?

Maybe someone could suggest what he should have done apart from "back off".

We already said it and here it is. Backing off slightly is all he needed to do. But you just don't wanna hear it.

 

[Ether]

Let me just chip in some thoughts from the perspective of someone whose worked with racing stewards and seen them review this exact same incident in lower formula racing series. The first thing you have to do is look at the incident objectively for what it is. You cannot take into consideration the driver's experience, what lap it was, how likely they were to complete the pass had they waited until the next corner, etc. You're making a judgment based on the movement of (in this case) two cars and a section a race track beneath them. That's it. I've seen this exact incident play out before, and the driver who fails to give enough racing room is always penalized. In this case, Lewis should have yielded as Alex was at the edge of the track, was ahead (importantly), and had no where else to go to avoid contact. Was it a risky move? Sure, and unfortunately it cost him a podium, and potentially a win. Lewis running wide into him was not Alex's fault though.

 

[PeterJB]

That 5 is very generous. Did you see his unforced spin at Turn 4 early in the race?

Nah man, I think Ericsson hit him.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Nah man, I think Ericsson hit him.

Damn net-code issues

 

[NotThePrez]

Alright, after watching the Brazil 2019 replay, and the replay of todays incident, I for sure believe that HAM/ALB's collison was a racing incident.

Brazil 2019 replay:



HAM goes for a literally non-existant gap given the behavior and racing line of that corner. T-Bones ALB, gets a penalty. Perfectly fair.

Today's incident:



HAM has hit the apex and is on full lock at apex and still has damn-near full lock coming out of the corner. ALB, who has a shallower line and more speed, tries to cut in front (maybe to preemptively defend) of HAM but collects his RR tire into HAM's LF tire. Lewis still has the racing line as well. AFAIK, the overtaking driver does have a degree of responsibility to make sure that their pass will be effective. At the time of the incident, ALB, imo, was not ahead far enough to take "command," for lack of a better term.

Also, at the moment that ALB comes in front of Lewis, I feel like if Lewis tried to slow down he would A) make his situation worse, and b) probably would've still hit ALB, or his wing would've cut ALB's tire.

All in all, racing incident, and I don't think there's anything HAM could've done differently.

In Albon's defense, he's still very inexperienced with the intricacies of a Formula 1 car. I doubt in that moment he was thinking about the fact "that these cars understeer at low speed and him trying to rocket around the outside would leave too much room for contact from a slower, under steering car from the inside."

Sorry, but that's kinda BS. Albon's been here for a full season, and if he can't figure out a basic, well-known behavior of any F1 car in that time (nevermind the previous open-wheel experience he's had), then the man doesn't have a bright future in F1.

Also, handing out pity penalties does nothing but hurt the overall product. Incidents should be looked at as objectively as possible, no matter who's involved.

Edit: The F1 Youtube page uploaded a much better version of the incident

 

[evldave333]

I feel for Alex Albon his time is comin he will get a podium soon, I dont think the incident with Lewis was as cheeky as Max on Charles last year. I would say the penalty is necessary as the impact to Albon's race was severe rather than the incident itself being dangerous. Wonder if they will do any work to the track midweek with all the none finishes?

 

[Oswald07]

Let me just chip in some thoughts from the perspective of someone who's worked with racing stewards and seen them review this exact same incident in lower formula racing series. The first thing you have to do is look at the incident objectively for what it is. You cannot take into consideration the driver's experience, what lap it was, how likely they were to complete the pass had they waited until the next corner, etc. You're making a judgment based on the movement of (in this case) two cars and a section a race track beneath them. That's it. I've seen this exact incident play out before, and the driver who fails to give enough racing room is always penalized. In this case, Lewis should have yielded as Alex was at the edge of the track, was ahead (importantly), and had no where else to go to avoid contact. Was it a risky move? Sure, and unfortunately it cost him a podium, and potentially a win. Lewis running wide into him was not Alex's fault though.

Only Lewis gave him enough room. Albon wasn't even touching the white line at the point of impact as can be seen in previous posts screen shots. Should have been racing incident. If it was Verstappen would have been racing incident.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

We already said it and here it is. Backing off slightly is all he needed to do. But you just don't wanna hear it.

They were side by side. There's no guarantee that there would've been no contact with Hamilton backing off. These are split second decisions and if the wheels were 1-2 inches apart it would've been a clean pass.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Remember that this is all trivial. Albon blew up with 3 laps to go, can you imagine if he was leading at that point?

 

[Adam41]

We already said it and here it is. Backing off slightly is all he needed to do. But you just don't wanna hear it.

I've asked for specifics. How do you back off slightly? What inputs do you want Hamilton to make?

You don't become an F1 champion letting people sail past before a corner you because you know he has a gripper tyre. I'm also not sure how you think Hamilton could have got him back on a 40 lap old hard compared to a brand new soft.

If you wanted him to back off "when he knew Albon was ahead", I've already explained how that was impossible in my part of the post you've deleted, unless you want to disagree with me with suggestions on how you think he could backed off.

 

[PeterJB]

Remember that this is all trivial. Albon blew up with 3 laps to go, can you imagine if he was leading at that point?

Things would be very sour between Albon and Hamilton if this hadn't happened.

 

[Ether]

Only Lewis gave him enough room. Albon wasn't even touching the white line at the point of impact as can be seen in previous posts screen shots. Should have been racing incident. If it was Verstappen would have been racing incident.

I totally see your point, but here's why that aspect isn't worthy of consideration in this incident. Alex is not obliged to move further wide to give a car he's already past room in this scenario. He cannot anticipate the car behind him to slide wide into the side of him.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I've asked for specifics. How do you back off slightly? What inputs do you want Hamilton to make?

Seriously? It's called letting off the gas. And I didn't delete anything. I chose to quote what I chose to quote.

 

[AshenGraey]

Same track next weekend, I hope it will be as exciting if not more! I'm expecting Lewis is going to come back raging.

Looking at the replays of that incident, I still think Albon was a bit too eager there! Yeah he made the move and was ahead but at that corner, this seems more like a racing incident to me. Albon seems to think he had the pace and the tire grip so he also could have waited and better time his overtake especially in critical situation like this. That being said, did Hamilton deserve the penalty, most likely especially since Albon is sent spinning in the gravel despite being clearly ahead. I read some earlier posts saying that he should have been DQ or that his race craft has always been crap or that the penalty should have been more....I don't agree with that.

In any case, what I like the most about this race is Lando managing to get that first podium! I can't wait to see when he's finally in a position to really fight for the actual championship because let's be honest, McLaren is not there yet. Leclerc getting that Ferrari in P2 is also pretty amazing. He's clearly cementing his #1 driver status at Ferrari over Sainz next year

 

[Rangeraus]

We already said it and here it is. Backing off slightly is all he needed to do. But you just don't wanna hear it.

That was a low probability pass (being behind on entry, and on the outside) and it went wrong. Albon also didn't use any kerb on the outside to get the pass done either.

I thought it was a racing incident.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Seriously? It's called letting off the gas. And I didn't delete anything. I chose to quote what I chose to quote.

In a braking zone. When you're already 100% off throttle. Come on, you're clutching at straws now.

 

[Adam41]

Seriously? It's called letting off the gas. And I didn't delete anything. I chose to quote what I chose to quote.

So you want him to stop racing. Thought so.

Got it.

 

[Oswald07]

I totally see your point, but here's why that aspect isn't worthy of consideration in this incident. Alex is not obliged to move further wide to give a car he's already past room in this scenario. He cannot anticipate the car behind him to slide wide into the side of him.

Only this confirms that Lewis left Albon a car width of space which he didn't bother to use resulting in a collision. And as someone previously pointed out the onus is on the person making the pass to ensure that it is done safely.

 

[Dotini]

Is anyone contesting or questioning Hamilton's 5 second penalty?

 

[fortbo]

Seriously? It's called letting off the gas. And I didn't delete anything. I chose to quote what I chose to quote.

Albon could have been smarter and went with a less risky move. Hamilton gave him plenty of room and was actively trying to avoid Albon as seen in his steering inputs. It’s not nearly as simple of a situation as you make it out to be. He couldn’t have just let off the gas while the car is under a large amount of load mid corner. That’s how bad things happen and I’m surprised that you don’t know that especially with your stated sim racing experience that somehow gives your argument more weight. In real racing, we would usually consider Albon’s move to be pretty reckless given the situation. That move had a very low chance of having anything good come out of it. If anything, it’s a racing incident.

 

[DesertPenguin]

In a braking zone. When you're already 100% off throttle. Come on, you're clutching at straws now.

He was already on the gas at that point. That's why he was understeering out. Because he was on throttle.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

In a braking zone. When you're already 100% off throttle. Come on, you're clutching at straws now.

At some point, they do get back on the gas. But based on the video, I don't really see a point leading up to the contact at which that would've helped.

 

[phillgt2002]

Oof

 

[Spirit]

I have not seen the telemetry for the Hamilton-Albon collision, but judging from the engine note as retrieved from Hamilton's onboard camera, I believe that Hamilton was completely off throttle for the entire duration of the event. It looks like he under-steered off-throttle into Albon. Outside of slamming the brakes on the exit of the corner and possibly spinning the car, I don't see anything else Hamilton could have done.

My ears could be deceiving me though.

 

[Sabertooth]

Calm down, watch the replay again and react with your head not your heart. 5 seconds may have been a bit lenient but all this decrying of Hamilton as an asshole and calling for him to be instantly DQ'ed is way too far over the line. Brazil was all Lewis's fault, he dived into a gap that wasn't open. This one Albon needs to take some of the blame too. He went for the overtake on the outside line and hasn't completed it by the time he reached the pinch point on the exit.

At no point did Lewis turn into Albon - that is the clearest distinction that shows your attitude is way too extreme.

He didn’t turn in, He underdressed into Albon. Still Hamilton’s fault.

 

[NotThePrez]

He was already on the gas at that point. That's why he was understeering out. Because he was on throttle.

If you listen to the replay I posted, you'll notice that HAM was off-throttle up to and including the moment when he & ALB collide.

He didn’t turn in, He underdressed into Albon. Still Hamilton’s fault.

Watch the onboard I posted earlier. You can see ALB picking up speed and starting to cut in front of HAM.

 

[AshenGraey]

Is anyone contesting or questioning Hamilton's 5 second penalty?

Some people are saying it was too lenient and should have been harsher! For my take, I think that penalty was just "pity" for Albon because If I was the steward, I probably would have let that go as a racing incident and move on.

 

[Dotini]

I have not seen or heard of any protest or criticism of the stewards decision to penalize Hamilton 5 seconds. If no protest is forthcoming from Hamilton or Mercedes, then that must be taken as acceptance of the legitimacy of the penalty, no?

 

[FutureF1]

At what point do you think this was and how do you propose he backs off?

He picks his braking point whilst ahead of Albon and decides to defend position. I can tell you Albon is only ahead when Hamilton is less than a car length away from apex kerb. From this point, if he brakes more he locks up and understeers straight, if he turns more he understeers.

Maybe someone could suggest what he should have done apart from "back off". Maybe Albon should have backed off at that corner on the first lap before there was inevitable contact with Hamilton, if he didn't come out of the throttle and let Albon use ALL of the exit kerb.

Looks like I'm late to the party in replying to this but backing off is generally done by reducing your throttle input. Given your sim background, I would have assumed you knew that.

Also considering that most of the racing drivers I've seen post about the incident have thrown the blame squarely on Lewis, I'm feeling pretty comfy with my take on the incident. I'll let you guys continue pouring over it since I've learned it's hard to sway the opinions of fanboys.

 

[fortbo]

For everyone saying Hamilton could have just turned his wheel more or lifted off, if we’re using that logic then couldn’t Albon have just turned his wheel more too given the amount of space he had to avoid Hamilton? It would have been much easier for him to do that compared to what everyone’s saying Hamilton should have done. Or better yet, Albon should have went for a less risky move as stated before, especially when you’re the last car running on the team. Edit: I’m a Redbull fan by the way, with 5 years of actual racing experience, this is not coming from some Hamilton fanboy, nor am I a Hamilton hater. I’m just giving my honest opinion of the situation.