FORZA 3 not a Sim according to KY?

[fcautoX]

This is how I know Kaz is right, please note I play R Factor and GT5P daily. One day my friend texted me and said he rented Forza 3, and i was like "hell yeah im tryin to play that" so i went over to his house extremely exited. But as i began to play it quickly became obvious to me that the physics in this game didn't have the depth that a sim should. Allow me to explain, while driving at high speed in a stock f430 it was extremely easy to change direction VERY quickly with little or no sense of enertia. Also in a REAL simulation, the weight transfer must be very smooth to prevent yourself from losing control, definitly not the case with FM3. After playing RF and GT5P, Forza just seemed like childsplay (with all assists off).

needless to say i was dissapointed.

 

[JasBird]

Having read through this thread and the review thread about feel and physics I have to say I'm a little surprised how different the experience is for people.

First of I'm an old hardcore sim fan and always raced with a wheel. Love rfactor, RBR, LFS, GPL and iRacing off course. As with FM2 I was initally a little disapointed with FM3, and I expected this because I need some transition from playing the PC sims and back to the Xbox. Once you get back in the groove I think Forza 3 has excellent Force Feedback even with the crappy build quality MS Wheel. I rate FM3 up there with the best when it comes to FF.

2 other things that impress me is the driving feel and how different every car feels. I would rate FM3 number 1 when it comes to driving feel. For me it just feels natural to drive. This is off course very important for a sim, so no complaints for me there.

In the threads there has been a lot of talk of all the cars feeling the same. For me that was GT4 biggest downfall, I'm holding off on the PS3 until GT5 arrives. I constantly amazed how different each car feels in Forza 3. I love just driving a new car just to find out how it feels. Off course I haven't driven most of them in real life so my only reference is from reading car magazine for over 20 years & TV-shows. I smile when I drive a car and think back to the reviews how similiar I experience the car. The perfectly balanced Porsche 944. Subaru Impreza is more the understeering car vs the agile Mitsubitshi EVO. Fighting the heavy front of the Focus ST compared to the brilliant responsive Honda Integra. The quick directional changes of the MR cars and the hard work of the RR Porsches. I remeber Clarkson reasoning for not liking the old Porshce 911 because the car has a "whoobly" front which suddenly might snap into oversteer because of the engine being in the wrong place. This is especially noticable in the old Turbo and Carrera RS.

Reagarding the physics I easily give it an approved stamp. I must admit on a few occasions it feels that I should have lost the car in spin, but other times I spin and it feels right.

Someone mentioned that you don't get penalized when braking into corners? I totally disagree. Brake in a corner, the front looses grip and you start to go outwards in the turn. Try your braking distance in a straight line, then try it again while turining the wheel or have a little angle on your car while braking and you will see a difference.

Same with weight shifting. I will and cannot play a sim without any feeling of weight shifting. For me another strong point in FM3 and it so much fun balancing the car around the Nordschleife or the S combos at Suzuka.

Hmm. This got much longer than expected.

Merry Xmas

 

[OmnipotenceZERO]

lol MustangSVT that obviously shows all u played in GT5P was the Normal mode, not even professional, let alone Simulation. Besides, wait for GT5 to come But i luv how people in here rather peacefully and politely talk and discuss abt games compared to other websites especially youtube where if i just say "i think GT5 is a lil better than forza" or even vice versa they'll welcome me by every single curse they learned since their childhood. -_-

 

[Nigo]

You don't even have to watch that vid. All you have to do is listen to the professional drivers who have used FM3 on the exact tracks they race on. When they state it is a great sim, very realistic, has the same lines, and same times that they run in real life, I think that is confirmation alone. The pros that actually RACE those tracks for a living know better than anyone on these forums

that's so ridiculous
Do they have any idea what a sim IS ?
"I use the same lines... make the same lap times... the track looks right... so it's realistic". You can make anyone say anything this way (even when they're not paid to say it's great, which they often are)
you need to make them try at LEAST two sims on the row so he can compare the sensations, and THEN you'll get some interesting results. I know you want them compare it to reality out of the box, but they just honestly can't

Forza 3 is the best sim on a console

if that makes you happy... in the meantime, NFS Shift is Auto Sim Sport's best sim of the year 2009

 

[Racer3X]

At this moment, I really don't care about KY. Right now I'm sitting with my Fanatec wheel on Forza3 and having a great-time.

@Nigo: You sound like a fanboy. Shift is Arcade, Forza3 is the best racing sim on consoles right now,end of discussion.

 

[Nigo]

fan of what ? of Shift's handling ? don't make me laugh, I've spent so much time arguing with Shift's fanatics... but there is a "feeling" though, and the car control is way better. In my opinion they're both overrated. I'm sure you never tried Supercar Challenge or Race Pro

 

[chilledant]

At this moment, I really don't care about KY. Right now I'm sitting with my Fanatec wheel on Forza3 and having a great-time.

@Nigo: You sound like a fanboy. Shift is Arcade, Forza3 is the best racing sim on consoles right now,end of discussion.

hi guys,,
shift is an aracde based game not even close to sim..
forza maybe sim,
now the RACE PRO,, thats hard core sim.
SCC is a great sim game..
GT5TT/P will if you like ice skating then thats the game 4 you..

 

[G.T.Ace]

This thread is pure gold.

 

[TrievelA7X]

Having read through this thread and the review thread about feel and physics I have to say I'm a little surprised how different the experience is for people.

First of I'm an old hardcore sim fan and always raced with a wheel. Love rfactor, RBR, LFS, GPL and iRacing off course. As with FM2 I was initally a little disapointed with FM3, and I expected this because I need some transition from playing the PC sims and back to the Xbox. Once you get back in the groove I think Forza 3 has excellent Force Feedback even with the crappy build quality MS Wheel. I rate FM3 up there with the best when it comes to FF.

2 other things that impress me is the driving feel and how different every car feels. I would rate FM3 number 1 when it comes to driving feel. For me it just feels natural to drive. This is off course very important for a sim, so no complaints for me there.

In the threads there has been a lot of talk of all the cars feeling the same. For me that was GT4 biggest downfall, I'm holding off on the PS3 until GT5 arrives. I constantly amazed how different each car feels in Forza 3. I love just driving a new car just to find out how it feels. Off course I haven't driven most of them in real life so my only reference is from reading car magazine for over 20 years & TV-shows. I smile when I drive a car and think back to the reviews how similiar I experience the car. The perfectly balanced Porsche 944. Subaru Impreza is more the understeering car vs the agile Mitsubitshi EVO. Fighting the heavy front of the Focus ST compared to the brilliant responsive Honda Integra. The quick directional changes of the MR cars and the hard work of the RR Porsches. I remeber Clarkson reasoning for not liking the old Porshce 911 because the car has a "whoobly" front which suddenly might snap into oversteer because of the engine being in the wrong place. This is especially noticable in the old Turbo and Carrera RS.

Reagarding the physics I easily give it an approved stamp. I must admit on a few occasions it feels that I should have lost the car in spin, but other times I spin and it feels right.

Someone mentioned that you don't get penalized when braking into corners? I totally disagree. Brake in a corner, the front looses grip and you start to go outwards in the turn. Try your braking distance in a straight line, then try it again while turining the wheel or have a little angle on your car while braking and you will see a difference.

Same with weight shifting. I will and cannot play a sim without any feeling of weight shifting. For me another strong point in FM3 and it so much fun balancing the car around the Nordschleife or the S combos at Suzuka.

Hmm. This got much longer than expected.

Merry Xmas

The one thing I can tell you is braking distance should not increase much by turning the wheel.
In fact, on some cars it very well likely does not at all, and may even improve.
I'll tell you why - At a straight angle, every car built within the past 20+ years has the front wheel at an outward angle, this is because of steering and suspension geometry. when you turn you steering wheel, the outside (grip) tire flattens out, and you have more rubber of that wheel on the ground.
So, while I haven't tested it, nor have I heard of any being done, I wouldn't expect a big difference either way.

 

[TrievelA7X]

.

 

[Racer3X]

hi guys,,
shift is an aracde based game not even close to sim..
forza maybe sim,
now the RACE PRO,, thats hard core sim.
SCC is a great sim game..
GT5TT/P will if you like ice skating then thats the game 4 you..

Race Pro,never heard of it
Is it also for the xbox360?

 

[Nigo]

Race Pro,never heard of it
Is it also for the xbox360?

ever heard of google ?

shift is an arcade based game

I disagree. I think the base is a proper sim, just as good as Doug Arnao say it is, which they voluntarily ruined so it can be accessible (which it barely is)

 

[Racer3X]

ever heard of google ?

Still thinking Shift is a Sim, man you need to wake up.

 

[Nigo]

Next time please read my post to the end before quoting (the wrong part)
Shift doesn't fit my definition of arcade, the thing HAS physic. The end result is terrible, but that's another story

 

[Racer3X]

the thing HAS physic

So does Ridge Racer!

By the way,thanks for the Race Pro tip. Ordered it,I am very pleased with Forza3,If Race Pro is anything near GTR2 or Legend it's a winner

 

[Scaff]

Colour me unimpressed with the attitude you two are showing to each other, in addition to the appalling grammar.

These are both issues the AUP is quite clear on and should the pair of you not be able to communicate without following the AUP then I strongly suggest that you both stop posting.

Cut the attitude with each other and start using capitals at the start of sentences, either that or find out what happens when you ignore the AUP.


Scaff

 

[chilledant]

Race Pro,never heard of it
Is it also for the xbox360?

Hi RacerX
Yes my brother has it the race pro, I play it when i visit him. xbox360. If you have the xbox you can also download R Factor, The xbox is compatible because its microsoft based. You must get the codes. These two games are great fun. I am thinking of buying me a xbox360 to go with my PS3 because of these two games. I race SCC and love it.

 

[Racer3X]

Colour me unimpressed with the attitude you two are showing to each other, in addition to the appalling grammar.

These are both issues the AUP is quite clear on and should the pair of you not be able to communicate without following the AUP then I strongly suggest that you both stop posting.

Cut the attitude with each other and start using capitals at the start of sentences, either that or find out what happens when you ignore the AUP.


Scaff

I think you should check your attitute as well against us the forum users!

About using capitals at the start of the sentences, what are you? A kindergarten teacher?If you really have that kind of problems about how people write on the internet, than you really need proffessional help. Well, you allready made your threats with banning, so go ahead than.

@chilledant,
I bought me an Xbox360 recently because of the delays of GT5 and I can only say that I should have gottan one earlier.So far I like the games on Xbox.

 

[Joey D]

Just an FYI you did agree to certain terms when you signed up for an account. You might want to give them another once over. It makes forum life better for us all when the rules are followed.

https://www.gtplanet.net/aup/

 

[Dave A]

I think you should check your attitute as well against us the forum users!

He wouldn't have had any attitude if you hadn't been having an e-pissing contest with each other. There's a reason this is one of the best forums on the web for discussing things, and I mean in general not just games. Just deal with it, I'm sure your man enough 👍.

Shift probably is a sim, but based on my experience it's not a very good one.

 

[chilledant]

@Racer3X
You should go to youtube. Search the R factor, Great replay data there,

 

[Nigo]

So does Ridge Racer!

No
Having a proper physic engine doesn't not mean beeing realistic. In my mind, Shift has way better physics than, say, GT4, even thought GT4 looks much better. They're both flawed in different ways. You should check out what a physic engine is. End of story for me, "physics VS realism" isn't the point of the thread
Best regards

 

[Racer3X]

@Joey D
I usually don't read the aup's, common sense how to behave in forums works just fine and people need to argue/discuss even if the arguing can be funny sometimes.

He wouldn't have had any attitude if you hadn't been having an e-pissing contest with each other. There's a reason this is one of the best forums on the web for discussing things, and I mean in general not just games. Just deal with it, I'm sure your man enough 👍.

Shift probably is a sim, but based on my experience it's not a very good one.

I did read what we wrote to eachother with Nigo and can't justify someone needing to be sarcastic or treat people like they are 5 for that.

@Nigo
I think in the physics department GT4 has the upper edge compared to Shift. About Ridge Racer not having car physics, surely the cars in Ridge Racer do behave like cars, in a very Arcadish way but the base is car physics, so does Shift is my point. Offcourse Shift compared to Ridge Racer feels more real no argue on that as Forza3 feels more real compared to Shift, whatever Auto Sim Sport chooses for the best sim of the year.


On topic that KY feels Forza3 isn't a sim, did anyone expect him to say "Wow, Forza3 is really a good sim"?

I like Forza3 and having a great time right now, if GT5 would not be delayed I wouldn't have bought an Xbox360+Forza3.


@chilledant
I do race in RFactor (Simraceway 👍) but I'm not sure I understood correctly. Can I race on the Xbox360 RFactor? And what codes?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Hi RacerX
Yes my brother has it the race pro, I play it when i visit him. xbox360. If you have the xbox you can also download R Factor, The xbox is compatible because its microsoft based. You must get the codes. These two games are great fun. I am thinking of buying me a xbox360 to go with my PS3 because of these two games. I race SCC and love it.

No rFactor doesnt work n the 360.

 

[chilledant]

@RacerX
Hi bro,
i will confirm with him all the in's and out's. I know he does it all from his xbox.. I was under the impression you can only race r factor with a PC only but he told me he can with his xbox..? i will mail you in your profile we i know more..

Does it not GT.Ace.?? Thats weard, I will phone him to find out more.?

 

[G.T.Ace]

rFactor is a pure PC game, it was never released for any console.

 

[JasBird]

The one thing I can tell you is braking distance should not increase much by turning the wheel.
In fact, on some cars it very well likely does not at all, and may even improve.
I'll tell you why - At a straight angle, every car built within the past 20+ years has the front wheel at an outward angle, this is because of steering and suspension geometry. when you turn you steering wheel, the outside (grip) tire flattens out, and you have more rubber of that wheel on the ground.
So, while I haven't tested it, nor have I heard of any being done, I wouldn't expect a big difference either way.

I didn't say it increase with much, but I feel a difference If you are familiar with the traction cirlce, it is a good way of showing how a tire works. For instance if you use 100% grip for braking or acceleration you have 0% left for turning or vice versa. I feel in forza that if you are not in a straight line and/or turn the wheel a little, it's easier to lock up and that gives you a LITTLE longer braking distance

Cheers

 

[chilledant]

Yes you wright my apologies. his connected through his lap for the one and xbox the other.
Thanx Ant..

 

[gt 4 ever]

best thing in forza there driving physics are realistc look when you do burnout or dounts but in gt is not the same thing im really woried i played gt time trail im not happy with there driving physics

 

[Racer3X]

@chilledant and @G.T.Ace
Thanks, too bad RFactor don't work on the Xbox because even though I don't like to pay for an Online-service like Live(It should be free), BUT the system is the best and easiest I know and Rfactor would have been a lot of fun racing over Live.

@gt 4 ever
I'm not so very happy with the GT5 TT physics either, it seems like PD made the physics a lot harder than real-life and the support to the Fanatec wheel is not the best