FORZA 3 not a Sim according to KY?

[Mermadium]

Interesting comparison

 

[725]

Its a shame they didn't let Johnny do a lap in FM3 after so he could give a comparison

 

[Mermadium]

Its a shame they didn't let Johnny do a lap in FM3 after so he could give a comparison

Agreed

 

[ItsHim]

Interesting comparison

This damn fine video really makes me wonder why on earth Microsoft tortured us with some lousy PR, and some racer girl who didn't appeal to me at all, while those dudes just delivered the perfect commercial for Forza3. Really, I liked this very, very much.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I am sure this commercial will be discounted in T minus 3 seconds by the naysayers.

That commercial just happens to say more of what we already know. It's a damn fine game and has quite a few accuracies and sim like features.

 

[Mermadium]

I am sure this commercial will be discounted in T minus 3 seconds by the naysayers.

That commercial just happens to say more of what we already know. It's a damn fine game and has quite a few accuracies and sim like features.

Well one could make the argument for either side, i think their failure was not allow Herbert to drive the sim and give his honest opinion.

 

[lmracer]

Some more detail on how the cars were set up would help The actual track looked cold and slick, while the Forza track is always dry and in optimal condition. A handicap in tire selection would have made it closer.

 

[ItsHim]

i think their failure was not allow Herbert to drive the sim and give his honest opinion.

"Oh it's extremely well done. I can see it helping a lot learning new tracks."

There you go, generic statement from any RL racing driver concerning any driving sim

Would have been fun seeing him painting or tuning cars, though.

 

[Mermadium]

"Oh it's extremely well done. I can see it helping a lot learning new tracks."

There you go, generic statement from any RL racing driver concerning any driving sim

True

 

[Jedi2016]

I'd be curious to know what the lap times were, see what I can do with the same car on that track.

 

[Sonzilla]

Yea what a realistic comparison.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Well one could make the argument for either side, i think their failure was not allow Herbert to drive the sim and give his honest opinion.

Hardly a failure. I am sure if they had done that as well (they have actually had professional drivers, on video, do FM3 track testing and claim it's accuracy), people would find another way to complain.

It's inevitable.

 

[Mermadium]

Hardly a failure. I am sure if they had done that as well (they have actually had professional drivers, on video, do FM3 track testing and claim it's accuracy), people would find another way to complain.

It's inevitable.

Well, yes you are right not a failure indeed is a fun video, but it would have been a better way to compare how realistic it is using only Herbert's input, but in reality at the end of the day this comparisons are pointless because nothings substitutes reality, only maybe to learn a track lay out this simulations are useful.
I know people are sensitive about this physics topic we all better off enjoying this excellent games for what they are.

 

[newbielives]

Is the Jason guy a race car driver?
First I don't see him using the 6 speed shifter,
Is he clutching and heal toeing?
And how the hell did he beat Jonny Herbert a REAL race car driver.
Wow Forza is soooo SIM
Does this not prove how arcady Forza3 is when some bloke using Forza physics can beat a racing legend?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Is the Jason guy a race car driver?
First I don't see him using the 6 speed shifter,
Is he clutching and heal toeing?
And how the hell did he beat Jonny Herbert a REAL race car driver.
Wow Forza is soooo SIM
Does this not prove how arcady Forza3 is when some bloke using Forza physics can beat a racing legend?

Guy said it was his first time ever driving that car...and it had rained, and the track was wet. BTW, the same thing can happen in GT games as well. Same blokes, same SIM.

 

[ralph89]

I'm just lol in every GT vs Forza argument.

"Forza fan: Forza FTW! GT sucks, because it's not realistic, it's a bumper car game!"
"GT fan: Noooo! Forza sucks because the physics is not realistic!"

It will never end.

 

[newbielives]

I'm just lol in every GT vs Forza argument.

"Forza fan: Forza FTW! GT sucks, because it's not realistic, it's a bumper car game!"
"GT fan: Noooo! Forza sucks because the physics is not realistic!"

It will never end.

The argument will end once the GT5 is released and a holy light breaks through the clouds melting my copy of Forza3

 

[LaBounti]

I never like silverstone. But the real car was racing in the wet. Whats is the point if both drivers dont race in the game and the real car?

 

[Exorcet]

I'm late to this, but I must politely disagree with KY. I'd say Turn 10 is a better position to make statements like that. Forza felt so natural on the first drive that I couldn't believe it. I could immediately translate my real track experience to the game, and it was in a way impossible to do in any GT game I've played so far. But Forza is unrivaled only until 2010, anything can happen then. I really can't wait for December when I'll be gold on Live again. And March, when GT tries to take its title back.

 

[ItsHim]

Sadly, racing cars in their near stock form is exactly what Forza is not about, so many of the cars I would have loved to take online were pretty useless. So is RWD apparently, again.

To me, Forza looses all realism when it comes to tuning, and as Forza is all about modifying and tuning cars in any way imaginable...

That would also be the only criticism I would voice about the video: other than in a private lobby, you couldn't race two Porsche GT2 on Silverstone. It's nothing the game promotes, and Forza 3 really isn't about that kind of races.

Other than that, the video really showcases Forza 3 in a very exciting way: you'll find plenty of youtube videos showing neat triple screen setups, you'll find plenty of RL comparison videos.

But this is one of those rare videos where a very famous racing driver takes on the challenge and is apparently very happy to have been beaten by "a bad ass video gamer". Brilliant! Exciting car, exciting gaming setup, rather good drama to it.

I love all that GT Academy stuff, and finally Forza got something far better than the "official Forza racing woman". It still won't make me buy the game, but it's good fun to watch.

What has taken away the "sim" aspect from Forza for me was, that even the grippiest tyres were good for far too many fast laps, and the setup had hardly ever to be balanced against tyre wear if it wasn't for the old R Class races. And even there just to a certain point. To constantly worry about conserving rubber was and is far more important to me than to see them flex in corners - which isn't done so brilliantly after all.

Anyway, glad the Forza fans have some nice fan wank, and I also enjoyed this video a lot.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I'm just lol in every GT vs Forza argument.

"Forza fan: Forza FTW! GT sucks, because it's not realistic, it's a bumper car game!"
"GT fan: Noooo! Forza sucks because the physics is not realistic!"

It will never end.

I know, right? It's mildly entertaining.

The argument will end once the GT5 is released and a holy light breaks through the clouds melting my copy of Forza3

We know.

 

[Dravonic]

Since I've never played Forza 3, I don't have an opinion on that one. And even if I had, it wouldn't matter, because we're not discussing that.

The original question was whether Kazunori claimed that Forza 3 is not a sim. If you read his statement, you will see he didn't. Of course, you can interpret the statement further and say that he did, just not explicitly. But it's a bold claim.

I may be a little touchy on the subject, because I am an editor. Sometimes, I see people discussing specific parts of my articles on the internet. And mostly, I have to wonder about their interpretation, because they often don't correctly reproduce what I wrote. That leads to conclusions which are miles away of what I said, let alone of what I meant. If those people would just read what I wrote and not try to bend and squeeze my words into what they think I wrote, all our lifes would be easier.

Now, if you look into what kind of guy Kaz is and how he chooses to word his thoughs, he is pretty child-like and direct. There is no hidden dismissing-the-competition, no double meaning, no room for interpretation - he just says what he thinks about things. Claiming that he meant a different thing is nothing more than that - a claim.

The world is full of self-proclaimed geniuses. I don't think we should worry about them. Just let them be.

Whether you agree or disagree with this review, you should know that these guys are pretty well-respected in the sim-racing community. They have great things to say about FM3 and its physics. They compare the FM3 physics to the best sims (iRacing, rFactor, etc.) out there and say that Forza 3 would score right up there with them They didn't include GT5P physics in that comparison if you notice. Didn't even get a mention. Did you notice the comment at 19:04 in the review? "This is definitely a sim." They are playing the game with a wheel, not a controller. If you are going to be judging the physics in any game, you need to be playing it with a wheel. And before you say it's too expensive, you can get a DFGT wheel for $60 on eBay, and a MS wheel for about the same. That's about what you would pay for a new game.

I don't trust them. Why? Just look at that video. More than half of it is advertising. I believe they just praised Forza 3 for the extra hits. From the amount of advertising, they do look that desperate. Of course that may not be true, but remember my words if they praise GT5 as the best thing since sliced bread, again, just for the extra hits.

You don't even have to watch that vid. All you have to do is listen to the professional drivers who have used FM3 on the exact tracks they race on. When they state it is a great sim, very realistic, has the same lines, and same times that they run in real life, I think that is confirmation alone. The pros that actually RACE those tracks for a living know better than anyone on these forums

Tanner Faust did the same exact thing with GT5P. I did not took a single word seriously. Why? He could be serious, as he could be just saying that for the money. The fact is that the professionals are not a reliable source for such a conclusion. Ironically, the random gamer with nothing to gain is probably more reliable.

 

[Jay]

Of course that may not be true, but remember my words if they praise GT5 as the best thing since sliced bread, again, just for the extra hits.

Actually I think they would get more hits if they did the opposite with GT5.

 

[Dravonic]

Actually I think they would get more hits if they did the opposite with GT5.

That's probably true

 

[Dave A]

Professionals praising and/or endorsing a game is nothing new nor is it something to base an opinion on. Usually they are getting paid or some other benefit for thier endorsment. And I'm not talking about Forza 3 here, but games in general. You can't say "so and so said Forza 3 is the bee's knees" because all you'll get back is "yeah but this bloke said GT5 was the dogs proverbials". Both comments were probably paid for and scripted. I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in the PS1 days Codemasters were making Colin McCrae rally and there was a rival game in development at the same time Tommi Makkinen rally. A few people argued that because Makkinen was the better driver, that for him to endorse that game it would probably e the better and more reaslitic of the two. Wrong. Tommi Makkinen rally was terrible, unrealistic, badly coded, woefull physics. Ofcourse, Colin McCrae rally was no pinnacle of physics, but at the time it was up there and far better than TMR.

The bottom line that both drivers put thier names on the games because they were getting something in return, finacial return, publicity and perhaps other things. When a driver makes a comment at a game during a show, or at a press day there is very little doubt that it was planned and that the driver in question is getting a hand out of some sort for it.

 

[Dravonic]

Professionals praising and/or endorsing a game is nothing new nor is it something to base an opinion on. Usually they are getting paid or some other benefit for thier endorsment. And I'm not talking about Forza 3 here, but games in general. You can't say "so and so said Forza 3 is the bee's knees" because all you'll get back is "yeah but this bloke said GT5 was the dogs proverbials". Both comments were probably paid for and scripted. I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in the PS1 days Codemasters were making Colin McCrae rally and there was a rival game in development at the same time Tommi Makkinen rally. A few people argued that because Makkinen was the better driver, that for him to endorse that game it would probably e the better and more reaslitic of the two. Wrong. Tommi Makkinen rally was terrible, unrealistic, badly coded, woefull physics. Ofcourse, Colin McCrae rally was no pinnacle of physics, but at the time it was up there and far better than TMR.

The bottom line that both drivers put thier names on the games because they were getting something in return, finacial return, publicity and perhaps other things. When a driver makes a comment at a game during a show, or at a press day there is very little doubt that it was planned and that the driver in question is getting a hand out of some sort for it.

That sort of thing is exactly why developers use professional comments/names in their games. It's nothing more than PR bull****. Some can see right through it, others buy it unfortunately.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The world is full of self-proclaimed geniuses. I don't think we should worry about them. Just let them be.



I don't trust them. Why? Just look at that video. More than half of it is advertising. I believe they just praised Forza 3 for the extra hits. From the amount of advertising, they do look that desperate. Of course that may not be true, but remember my words if they praise GT5 as the best thing since sliced bread, again, just for the extra hits.



Tanner Faust did the same exact thing with GT5P. I did not took a single word seriously. Why? He could be serious, as he could be just saying that for the money. The fact is that the professionals are not a reliable source for such a conclusion. Ironically, the random gamer with nothing to gain is probably more reliable.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[ItsHim]

I like the part where Kaz voices his worries if, as I took it, GT4 would be good enough that a RL racing driver could perform. Loeb even beat Kaz, but they both got beaten by other gamers.

It's safe to say that the moral could be applied to both franchises - they are good enough that a racing driver's skill will allow to compete (easily) with the hardcore video gamers out there. Of course it still leaves the question unanswered, if the opposite is true.

 

[Mermadium]

Loeb is awesome, that's a nice Vid

 

[SuperCobraJet]

As with any product, a celebrity game endorsement regaurdless of whose, is no guarantee of quality.

Kaz has all 4 of the Gran Turismo releases in the top 40 all time best sellers, without anyones endorsement except his.

Now his reputation speaks for itself and why many of us anxiously await the next GT installment.