FORZA 3 not a Sim according to KY?

[Lain]

I almost didn't respond because I sort of agreed, but then decided to go look up Greenwalt's comments again.

Let's compare:

KY (translated):


DG:


I can see some attitude difference there. Yamauchi doesn't really say if he thinks it is better or not. Greenwalt uses a literary reference to accuse Yamauchi of vanity and pride. Ironically, he then finishes by saying how no one competes with them.

Technically, Greenwalt is correct. Forza's the only GT-esque game series available for the Xbox 360. And in that sense, nobody competes with GT either because there aren't any GT-like games on the PS3 (Not even a real GT game yet, either though...)

 

[Bogie 19th]

One is worded more eloquent, agreed, but both are accomplishing the same thing.

 

[FoolKiller]

Technically, Greenwalt is correct. Forza's the only GT-esque game series available for the Xbox 360. And in that sense, nobody competes with GT either because there aren't any GT-like games on the PS3 (Not even a real GT game yet, either though...)

You would have a case if in a different interview he hadn't made sure to make it clear that he even means PC.

“I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.”

One is worded more eloquent, agreed, but both are accomplishing the same thing.

Please, elaborate how "It's a little bit different from a sim" is the same as "The emperor's naked," to someone who actually knows what that literary reference means.

 

[Bogie 19th]

KZ is saying that Forza 3 is not a sim, and that GT5 is a sim.
DG is saying that Forza 3 has advanced the sims on consoles, and that GT is no longer advancing sims on consoles.

I hope you comprehend.

 

[Lain]

Regarding the “I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.”, I think Greenwalt's referring to the amount of content Forza has, and possibly the livery editor.

I mean, yeah there are PC simulators with superior physics to both Forza and GT, but none of them have 400 cars out of the box.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I mean, yeah there are PC simulators with superior physics to both Forza and GT, but none of them have 400 cars out of the box.

And how many of them are 9.2% career complete after 20+ hours . At this rate, I don't think I can finish FM3. It's gonna take way too long.

 

[Terronium-12]

Regarding the “I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.”, I think Greenwalt's referring to the amount of content Forza has, and possibly the livery editor.

I mean, yeah there are PC simulators with superior physics to both Forza and GT, but none of them have 400 cars out of the box.

Even with that logic neither GT or Forza can compete with PC sims, additional content is released by the community for free more often than not. Look at GTR2, no, it doesn't have as many cars or tracks as GT or Forza out of the box (just as you've pointed out) but look at all of the additional content...it more than doubles what GT and Forza offer, combined.

 

[FoolKiller]

KZ is saying that Forza 3 is not a sim, and that GT5 is a sim.
DG is saying that Forza 3 has advanced the sims on consoles, and that GT is no longer advancing sims on consoles.

I hope you comprehend.

"The emperor's naked" has a very specific meaning, which none of your response addresses. Based on the topic at hand I have a feeling that Greenawalt was making a very specific commentary.

Regarding the “I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.”, I think Greenwalt's referring to the amount of content Forza has, and possibly the livery editor.

I mean, yeah there are PC simulators with superior physics to both Forza and GT, but none of them have 400 cars out of the box.

You're gonna make me quote the whole interview, aren't you?

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/...on-the-Market-is-Within-Years-of-Forza-3.html

Turn 10: Nothing on the Market is Within Years of Forza 3
Written Sunday, September 27, 2009 by Dan Webb


Forza 3's Game Director, Dan Greenawalt, told x360a at a Forza 3 event in London this week that there's nothing on the market that comes close to simulating what Forza 3 does.

Greenawalt pined, "I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here."

"Part of that actually meant visiting McLaren and seeing the simulator that they train on. I’ve seen other race teams as well and some of their simulators. We were kind of able to learn from each of them and incorporate a lot of that. So I think it would be hard for someone to match that," the outspoken Creative Director added.

Greenawalt later noted, "We have the best simulator around. You’re not going to find another one that’s even close, so if you turn off all the assists, you’re driving with a clutch, even on a controller, you’re driving. There’s tire flex, body flex and unsprung weight on the tires. You turn all the assists on, a 6 year old can play it."

You've played the demo, what do you think? Are Turn 10 and Microsoft so far ahead of the opposition?

Check back later for the full transcript of our interview with Forza 3 Creative Director, Dan Greenawalt.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Not much more we can do than agree to disagree. I say KY pulled the same crap, and you say not. Simple as that.

Edit: Fixed swear word. Thanks Terronium.

 

[Terronium-12]

Not much more we can do than agree to disagree. I say KY pulled the same 🤬, and you say not. Simple as that.

Swear filter, buddy. Swear filter.

 

[725]

Isn't it obvious that both will say their game is better?

But Dan Greenwalts comments did make him look like a 🤬, Mr Yamanuchi put his point across better

 

[the Interceptor]

Kaz didn't say his game is better. Please guys, don't put words in his mouth or conclude things he simply didn't say.

 

[Joey D]

Kaz didn't say his game is better. Please guys, don't put words in his mouth or conclude things he simply didn't say.

Why not? Everyone else seems to do so, not just with Kaz either but other developers as well.

 

[the Interceptor]

Why not? Everyone else seems to do so, not just with Kaz either but other developers as well.

Well, Mr. Greenwalt explicitly said that he believes his game clearly is the best one on the market right now. There is nothing to interpret there, he did say just that repeatedly.

Mr. Yamauchi simply recalled what Forza 3 felt like to him when he played it, but he didn't make any kind of judgement on where it stands on the market.

In all honesty, I don't see how anyone could see these statements as similar, let alone as equivalent.

 

[725]

Why not? Everyone else seems to do so, not just with Kaz either but other developers as well.

And to be honest there is nothing wrong with them saying things like that. I don't think publishers would be happy if developers where saying there game is as good as others in the same genre

 

[Bogie 19th]

In all honesty, I don't see how anyone could see these statements as similar, let alone as equivalent.

Of course not.

 

[the Interceptor]

Of course not.

???

 

[daan]

Yeh I'm talking about the training simulators which must be incredibly accurate.

What we need is for stuff like this to be released commercially

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115411

 

[Zer0]

I always find it amazing when people try to excuse Dan's agressive marketing with the KY words.

 

[Terronium-12]

Well, Mr. Greenwalt explicitly said that he believes his game clearly is the best one on the market right now. There is nothing to interpret there, he did say just that repeatedly.

Mr. Yamauchi simply recalled what Forza 3 felt like to him when he played it, but he didn't make any kind of judgement on where it stands on the market.

In all honesty, I don't see how anyone could see these statements as similar, let alone as equivalent.

And is he wrong?

 

[the Interceptor]

And is he wrong?

Since I've never played Forza 3, I don't have an opinion on that one. And even if I had, it wouldn't matter, because we're not discussing that.

The original question was whether Kazunori claimed that Forza 3 is not a sim. If you read his statement, you will see he didn't. Of course, you can interpret the statement further and say that he did, just not explicitly. But it's a bold claim.

I may be a little touchy on the subject, because I am an editor. Sometimes, I see people discussing specific parts of my articles on the internet. And mostly, I have to wonder about their interpretation, because they often don't correctly reproduce what I wrote. That leads to conclusions which are miles away of what I said, let alone of what I meant. If those people would just read what I wrote and not try to bend and squeeze my words into what they think I wrote, all our lifes would be easier.

Now, if you look into what kind of guy Kaz is and how he chooses to word his thoughs, he is pretty child-like and direct. There is no hidden dismissing-the-competition, no double meaning, no room for interpretation - he just says what he thinks about things. Claiming that he meant a different thing is nothing more than that - a claim.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

I like how topics (or points in a topic) change by the minute here, this thread is going at a full 200mph...

 

[Bogie 19th]

Amazing how everyone praises KY, even when something negative comes up. I love not caring what either side has to say, it's just entertainment for me.

 

[RouWa]

I've been playing Forza 3 with the MS wheel and it's pretty difficult, much more difficult than with the controller. It's almost as if it has different physics with the wheel.

While playing with the XBOX360 pad, a steering assist is permanently active with no chance to turn it off. It stays on even if you turn off all driving aids in the menu.

 

[Terronium-12]

While playing with the XBOX360 pad, a steering assist is permanently active with no chance to turn it off. It stays on even if you turn off all driving aids in the menu.

I haven't noticed any assist in said fashion, whatsoever.

 

[Jay]

Anyone ever use that Microsoft Flight Simulator on PC? The number of options in that thing is beyond mind boggling. Sadly, I think the 911 attackers used that sim in their planning

I am a avid flight simmmer and the default options in MS flight sim are actually quite basic. Infact using the default flight sim version (no detailed mods) you couldn't learn how to fly complex jet liners, or flight plan or anything really that the terrorists used. especially back in 2001.

These days with the high tech expensive mods (payware aircraft that cost more than complete games) that simulate everything and comes with 2000 page manuals you can learn pretty much everything.

I haven't noticed any assist in said fashion, whatsoever.

All games when using the the hand contoller give you steering assistance, GT included. Otherwise the cars would be too hard to control at high speed if the steering stayed at a 1:1 steering ratio the whole time. For example turn full lock (move the stick left or right) at a standstill and watch how far whe wheels rotate, now do the same as the car is gaining speed (on the testing track or something) and you will see them reducing steering lock.

 

[Terronium-12]

All games when using the the hand contoller give you steering assistance, GT included. Otherwise the cars would be too hard to control at high speed if the steering stayed at a 1:1 steering ratio the whole time. For example turn full lock (move the stick left or right) at a standstill and watch how far whe wheels rotate, now do the same as the car is gaining speed (on the testing track or something) and you will see them reducing steering lock.

Ah. Funny enough, I had never thought about nor noticed this.

Seems I need to get myself a wheel for this game after all, I despise assists, bar ABS.

 

[the Interceptor]

Amazing how everyone praises KY, even when something negative comes up. I love not caring what either side has to say, it's just entertainment for me.

You were involved in this discussion pretty deeply for pure entertainment purposes.

I take it your statement was also directed at me, and you probably didn't notice, but you just did exactly what I was talking about: interpreting what I said while discarding what I really said. I was trying to make the point that Kaz simply meant what he said. What you read was "this guy loves Kaz, and he wants to hear no evil from his mouth.".

Of course, there are people here who do that. Yet, if you go back and read what I said, you will notice that I am the one trying to establish that Kaz simply said what he said, and nothing more. Same goes for my statements. Not everyone makes efforts to push situations to personal advantages though his words, some people just mean what they say.

 

[MowTin]

I would agree that FM3 is not really a "sim." However, I don't like the whole sim or not sim dichotomy. There are many degrees in between.

However, FM3 is easier than iRacing and GT5....much easier. It's very easy to cach oversteer. You rarely lose control of your car and crash.

But the slightly dumbed down physics may be its strength. Online when someone bumps you in a corner you can recover from the oversteer the collision causes.

Despite Forza's poor handling, it's collision physics is much much better than GT5P. The collisions are less elastic. When somoene bumps your side you don't go flying off. So much less "punting."

Had a great time racing online tonight with B-class cars.

 

[Bogie 19th]

FM3 and GT are neither sims IMO, though I give FM3 the nod for more "sim" like.