Forza 4 Gameplay videos!

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Raitziger
My comments were based on playing Forza 3, not reading Forza 4 marketing material.
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He is talking about previous versions of the game. Previous versions of the game had a little aid for the wheel and much more for the pad.
 
What bothers me with FM4 is that after spending months with GT5 on my ps3 alone almost completely isolated, I will definetly do the same with FM4 on my 360 :( I know it is not o.k., but I cannot help myself.
 
It's worth pointing out that whilst it's nice to have the notion of 'simulation steering'.. it's all a bit a fallacy..

Any game where you can easily control the car compared to real life has by it's very nature a raft of notional 'aids' that are designed to stop the car doing what it would do in real life.

I've said it before, the steering aid people think was terrible in FM3 (the one where the steering wheel telemetry has a small kick) is not as sinister as is made out, most games would have masked that from the steering wheel graphic and it'd be buried as a permanent aid further down the physics engine.

By far the worst aid in FM3 on the wheel is the speed sensitive steering (reduces the steering range as speed increases).. I'm more glad that has gone.
 
phil-t
It's worth pointing out that whilst it's nice to have the notion of 'simulation steering'.. it's all a bit a fallacy..

Any game where you can easily control the car compared to real life has by it's very nature a raft of notional 'aids' that are designed to stop the car doing what it would do in real life.
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But its been said that FM4 is more difficult to drive than FM3 with all assists off.
 
To keep it real the physics look way better than FM3 judging the videos I have seem on FM4. Im pretty excited to see what FM4 has to offer.
 
zr1chris
But its been said that FM4 is more difficult to drive than FM3 with all assists off.
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Absolutely.. and it'll be all the better for it (Well for most people I imagine)...

But despite 'simulation steering' (marketing term making it in to the game), the underlying physics engine will no doubt (and I prefer this) have some built in softness to shield us from what can be very unforgiving real world physics, it just won't be as forgiving as FM3..

:)
 
phil-t
the underlying physics engine will no doubt have some built in softness to shield us from what can be very unforgiving real world physics, it just won't be as forgiving as FM3.
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Source?
 
phil-t
So far, my eyes.. ;)

Nothing I've seen yet matches, say, iRacing levels of unforgivingness. I'm not attacking it BTW, its just inevitably needs to be entertaining... :)
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I think it will be more difficult than you say. Ive seen some people playing the demo with the 599 and they were really struggling.
 
phil-t
Nothing I've seen yet matches, say, iRacing levels of unforgivingness. I'm not attacking it BTW, its just inevitably needs to be entertaining... :)
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But that's what assists are for.
If someone finds the game too difficult without assists, then they can turn them on.

Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it would be a really odd decision on T10's part to give us an option to turn off all the assists that doesn't actually turn off all the assists.
 
MintBerryCrunch
Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it would be a really odd decision on T10's part to give us an option to turn off all the assists that doesn't actually turn off all the assists
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They did it last time. Let's hope they are now telling the truth.
 
MintBerryCrunch
But that's what assists are for.
If someone finds the game too difficult without assists, then they can turn them on.

Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it would be a really odd decision on T10's part to give us an option to turn off all the assists that doesn't actually turn off all the assists.
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Any physics engine that doesn't behave as brutally as real life, has by definition an inherent slight softness in some parts of the physics engines,

So all console racers so far have not been as brutal as say iRacing etc..

One of things I do to test this is take a supercar with all assists off, if I can just power slide it side to side all the way around a track, then on the basis that I'm not actually a driving God, then these games must be adding a little 'softness' in the phsyics to let me have fun with it getting wayward, but allowing me to, most of the time' catch the slide and control it..

I wouldn't read too much negativity in what I'm saying, it's just that if you think of the entire physics engine from the known high level assists to the low level physics and what the car actually does on the track, you realise that the notion of assists doesn't just end at the ones we see in the options..

Raitziger
They did it last time. Let's hope they are now telling the truth.
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What does that actually mean? Name me anything other then a PC sim that isn't softening things for you? Certainly not Shift 2, not GT5, maybe RacePro (a little), but I can't think of any console game where I can't just take a high powered supercar and without too much skill, just sit there pendulating the car side to side all day long.. I can't remotely do that in iRacing for example (and other PC Sims)..
So are all console games 'lying'?
 
phil-t
What does that actually mean? Name me anything other then a PC sim that isn't softening things for you? Certainly not Shift 2, not GT5, maybe RacePro (a little), but I can't think of any console game where I can't just take a high powered supercar and without too much skill, just sit there pendulating the car side to side all day long.. I can't remotely do that in iRacing for example (and other PC Sims)..
So are all console games 'lying'?
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Maybe so then. Developers of Forza 3 said there are no AIDS with wheel if you turn them off in the game. Of course this was marketing talk and understandable. But there certainly there is not similar permanent over steer correction automation or nonlinear steering in GT5. It is other thing if game engine just won't allow accurate simulation compared to artificially adding things like steering buffer to create solutions to problems that do not even exist. Others might like that game steers car for you but I don't like it.
 
Raitziger
Maybe so then. Developers of Forza 3 said there are no AIDS with wheel if you turn them off in the game. Of course this was marketing talk and understandable. But there certainly there is not similar permanent over steer correction automation or nonlinear steering in GT5. It is other thing if game engine just won't allow accurate simulation compared to artificially adding things like steering buffer to create solutions to problems that do not even exist. Others might like that game steers car for you but I don't like it.
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So we can assume you've given up on ALL console racing, FM, GT and otherwise and now only play PC sims?
 
realism doesn't mean hard again.....in fact most PC sim has a problem with good oversteer characteristics, mostly simbin titles. Drifting a powerful car irl is a progressive and natural thing once you get the feeling down, and is actually pretty easy to do with the right car in Iracing (the skippy for example).

The so called brutalness of real sims comes from having realistic grip value and good surface inconsistencies, meaning it should be calm if you drive it the right way but punishing if you upsets it enough , but it shouldn't be naturally hard to drive anything powerful.
 
t.o.
So we can assume you've given up on ALL console racing, FM, GT and otherwise and now only play PC sims?
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I have given up on forza 3 but enjoying GT5. I tried both of the shift games but did not like them. New forza again sounds good and I will surely buy it.
 
Raitziger
Maybe so then. Developers of Forza 3 said there are no AIDS with wheel if you turn them off in the game. Of course this was marketing talk and understandable. But there certainly there is not similar permanent over steer correction automation or nonlinear steering in GT5. It is other thing if game engine just won't allow accurate simulation compared to artificially adding things like steering buffer to create solutions to problems that do not even exist. Others might like that game steers car for you but I don't like it.
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Here, once again is some tests done on the steering wheel 'permanent aid'.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4238725#post4238725

As an aid, it seems to be totally useless, it doesn't do what people say it does, it doesn't 'save' the car in those tests, and when it oscillates, it steers as much into the slide (making it worse) as it does away (Correcting it), pretty rubbish really.. The auto-countersteering assist on the pad, now that is very very very obvious when it's in play.. Clearly, the grip levels, subdued inertial effects (weight transfer) are ten times more culpable then some crutch of a steering aid that apparantly stops people playing it..

Oh, and yes, the speed sensitive steering is much worse as well (IMO), I'll be glad to get rid of that (I Hope in FM4)..

I can say from lots of hotlapping that anything you are talking about just doesn't factor in, the actual physics when trying to maximise momentum is still very good, and the 'grip' feel through the FFB is very good indeed, hopefully with all the improvements in FM4, it should be quite formidable, but I doubt it'll be iRacing or anything, that's to be expected.
 
phil-t
Here, once again is some tests done on the steering wheel 'permanent aid'.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4238725#post4238725

As an aid, it seems to be totally useless, it doesn't do what people say it does, it doesn't 'save' the car in those tests, and when it oscillates, it steers as much into the slide (making it worse) as it does away (Correcting it), pretty rubbish really.. The auto-countersteering assist on the pad, now that is very very very obvious when it's in play.. Clearly, the grip levels, subdued inertial effects (weight transfer) are ten times more culpable then some crutch of a steering aid that apparantly stops people playing it..

Oh, and yes, the speed sensitive steering is much worse as well (IMO), I'll be glad to get rid of that (I Hope in FM4)..

I can say from lots of hotlapping that anything you are talking about just doesn't factor in, the actual physics when trying to maximise momentum is still very good, and the 'grip' feel through the FFB is very good indeed, hopefully with all the improvements in FM4, it should be quite formidable, but I doubt it'll be iRacing or anything, that's to be expected.
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Personally I just find it as something people use to say "See GT5 is real because Forza ...". Trust me people will find anything to make an argument. Both games could be identical and they'll invent something. "GT5 is real because the tires on Forza look 100th of a shade too dark"

It's funny because people act as if this aid will make you the greatest driver on earth and solves all and every problem. I've yet to see a race where all 8 drivers came in first in a race. But I've seen plenty of cars up against walls, flipped over and etc. where this so-called game killing aid didn't do a damn thing to save a guy's race.

In this vid alone you can see where the aid didn't do a damn thing to save these guys. Check the front view and towards the end check the car in the rear view mirror. Where was the aid to save them. You still gotta drive and drive carefully.

 
Listen to this baby purr. HD Trans Am gameplay.

[YouTube]Taw9tblKnG4[/YouTube]

OG Skyline

[YouTube]Smi55b3kHgE[/YouTube]

Vette

[YouTube]K9TxI15e2ss[/YouTube]

GT5 vs FM4 Zonda Cockpit

[YouTube]iseHMk1Vny0[/YouTube]

GT5 vs FM4 Ferrari 458 Cockpit

[YouTube]iaF78tdI4JE[/YouTube]

My opinion:

In race graphics - GT5 by a hair. But, I haven't seen FM4 in game cockpit on my tv in 1080p yet. Going off these videos alone, kind of hard to say because it is certainly biased due to the fact that I know what GT5 looks like in 1080p.

Sound - No contest - FM4
 
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II-zOoLoGy-II
I added some more.
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The sound on the Zonda R was sooooo much better on FM4. The 458 I found slightly off on both. From what I have heard from real videos the sound is somewhere in between. I thought GT5 was far too high pitched and FM4 was a bit to low pitched at high RPM.
 
zr1chris
The sound on the Zonda R was sooooo much better on FM4. The 458 I found slightly off on both. From what I have heard from real videos the sound is somewhere in between. I thought GT5 was far too high pitched and FM4 was a bit to low pitched at high RPM.
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I agree. But, I would rather have my Italia sound throaty than like a vacuum cleaner lol.
 

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