Forza 4 Nordschleife

[Bogie 19th]

And guess what, I'm man enough to admit I was wrong. I was unaware of the layout change. BUT the rest of the track is still too wide.

Edit: Never mind, not worth it.

 

[Deadpool]

Wrong AGAIN. You keep lying over and over. I never once claimed as a fact that the ring is accurate (more or less) than GT5's ring or to real life. That is your first mistake.

When have I lied. Please point out my lie.

Hey scaff..... Bogie is being quite aggressive here don't you think?

How about we take a trip down memory lane. My comment was "The track is too long and too wide, because of this the times mean nothing. A lot of the difficult corners were widened to allow for passing, but it also made the track easier to drive and faster. It's a dumbed down version."

To which you replied "^Fail. ". I then replied "My comment or T10's Ring?? " to which you replied "Your comment. "

I never said anything about you claiming that the Ring in GT5 or real life. But you did say that it wasn't too wide or long. So no I never lied, I never put words in your mouth etc.

Your second mistake is lying. I never once said I had ANY real life experience on the track. My opinion of the accuracy (or lack of) comes from videos, shows, and of course each respective game.

When did I ever say you had real life experience on the track? You inferred that you didn't, and I never claimed that you had driven it. Lying again not found.

What evidence do I need to provide. I never claimed anything OTHER than someone stated that you CAN'T get ANYWHERE near the real times in Forza 3 on the ring compared to real life. I posted 2 videos showing 9 seconds apart, real life and Forza 3. I did back up my claim from what I have researched. I have also stated that many have been able to get similar times.

I never said that they couldn't achieve similar times. What I said was that the times in FM are meaningless being that the track is too long and too wide. So don't insinuate that I have said otherwise.

Not sure who this "we" is, but "we" are not dismissing anything, as I haven't claimed ANYTHING. It is YOU that are claiming things.

Actually a couple people have already pointed out that they would take the view of someone who has driven the track over that of someone who's only experience is through a game.

You HEAVILY inferred that the track width in FM was accurate and not too wide/long. You can deny it now, but we can all see the posts you made.

As soon as you stop providing WRONG and deceptive posts, maybe "WE" will give you a little more credibility. Until then, step away from the keyboard and think before you post next time.

What posts were deceptive. Please show me. I've already shown my credibility, a lot of us have been waiting for you to post a response other than "WRONG".

Hey Scaff. If what I typed was considered aggressive and attacking, what do you make of this?

 

[Deadpool]

Edit: Never mind, not worth it.

For starters corners 1-3 are too wide. But other than that the track is decent. The best job they did was on Sebring IMO.

 

[cuco33]

Not sure if you are racing on the inside view or outside view but if racing with inside view.........
Install the most expensive racing exhaust AND install the most expensive weight reduction. Plus buy the most expensive cam.

Then.....I cant say this enough..... INSTALL THE FULL WEIGHT REDUCTION TO HEAR THE TRUE AUDIO INSIDE THE CAR.

Will have to do this. Maybe I didn't do the full weight reduction which I've noticed does make it sound more like you're on the outside cam like hood cam.

 

[Deadpool]

As its been proven numerous time would you be so kind as to provide links to this proof for FM2, FM3 and FM4.


Thanks


Scaff

Need more? They have been testing this with each Forza and it's always the same result.

 

[Bogie 19th]

How about we take a trip down memory lane. My comment was "The track is too long and too wide, because of this the times mean nothing. A lot of the difficult corners were widened to allow for passing, but it also made the track easier to drive and faster. It's a dumbed down version."

To which you replied "^Fail. ". I then replied "My comment or T10's Ring?? " to which you replied "Your comment. "

Yup, that is the way I replied.

I never said that they couldn't achieve similar times. What I said was that the times in FM are meaningless being that the track is too long and too wide. So don't insinuate that I have said otherwise.

And here lies your issue. Correct, YOU didn't say they couldn't achieve similar times. I replied to someone else that stated that you CANNOT achieve similar times. I provided proof that you can get close, to THAT poster, not you.

You replied to me, talking about the inaccuracies of the track. I said FAIL, because that doesn't DEBUNK what I was proving to the poster that the times can be made nearly the same.

Actually a couple people have already pointed out that they would take the view of someone who has driven the track over that of someone who's only experience is through a game.

Of course. Makes sense to me. Just like my time at the indy track not matching your video watching experience. I never said you didn't have experience at the ring or that you were not qualified to have any type of feedback on the track accuracy.

You HEAVILY inferred that the track width in FM was accurate and not too wide/long. You can deny it now, but we can all see the posts you made.

I can't deny something I didn't say.

What posts were deceptive.

Nearly all of them.

Hey Scaff. If what I typed was considered aggressive and attacking, what do you make of this?

You are seriously not going there?

 

[Deadpool]

And here lies your issue. Correct, YOU didn't say they couldn't achieve similar times. I replied to someone else that stated that you CANNOT achieve similar times. I provided proof that you can get close, to THAT poster, not you.

You replied to me, talking about the inaccuracies of the track. I said FAIL, because that doesn't DEBUNK what I was proving to the poster that the times can be made nearly the same.

I was adding to the conversation, but you failed to realize that. As you just admitted, I never said you couldn't get similar times, I was adding to the conversation that the times are irrelevant based on the track width/length.

The problem was you were too vague in your response. When I asked what the failure was, you should have said "because my post was only about being able to get similar times" to which I would have responded "yes I realize that, I was only adding to the convo" and that would have been the end of it. Because of your vague responses we are where we are. When we look at your vague posts based on my comments it STRONGLY appears that you are taking the stance that the track isn't too wide/long.

Of course. Makes sense to me. Just like my time at the indy track not matching your video watching experience. I never said you didn't have experience at the ring or that you were not qualified to have any type of feedback on the track accuracy.

That's if you assume I've never driven the track . I drove the old layout, which is why I made the comment about the chicane being wrong.

I can't deny something I didn't say.

No, but we can all see that's what you inferred.

Nearly all of them.

Why don't you show me one then. Quit with the vague responses.

You are seriously not going there?

It was a joke.

 

[Bogie 19th]

It's really just time to move on.

FM3 is not perfect with their Norschleife track accuracy, and GT5 is more accurate. Simple as that.

 

[Deadpool]

It's really just time to move on.

FM3 is not perfect with their Norschleife track accuracy, and GT5 is more accurate. Simple as that.

We will just call it miscommunication and not get the thread locked.

 

[Scaff]

Hey Scaff. If what I typed was considered aggressive and attacking, what do you make of this?

I think the pair of you will be taking a holiday from GT Planet if I ever see behaviour like this again.

This is not the school yard so either follow the AUP or use the ignore function with each other, but right now a temp ban is hovering over the head of the next one to take a dig.


Scaff

 

[Deadpool]

I think the pair of you will be taking a holiday from GT Planet if I ever see behaviour like this again.

This is not the school yard so either follow the AUP or use the ignore function with each other, but right now a temp ban is hovering over the head of the next one to take a dig.


Scaff

"You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack any individual or any group."

Neither of us were abusive/hateful/harassing/threatening or attacking each other personally. Neither of us resorted to school yard name calling etc. One of my only critiques of the GT Planet forum has been the inability to have a debate without the worry of receiving points or a thread lock. Granted most thread debates do take that turn for the worst, but IMO the cord shouldn't be pulled until that point.

Any debate is going to have heated moments, it's a argument, that's how it goes. It's only when it turns into personal attacks that there is a problem. As long as the parties don't resort to that then why should a thread be closed? The argument was on topic and didn't contain personal attacks. Neither of us had a "behavior" issue.

Anyways take it as constructive criticism eh. And maybe you and I can continue our conversation/debate regarding the camber/profiles of certain corners

 

[Scaff]

"You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack any individual or any group."

Neither of us were abusive/hateful/harassing/threatening or attacking each other personally. Neither of us resorted to school yard name calling etc. One of my only critiques of the GT Planet forum has been the inability to have a debate without the worry of receiving points or a thread lock. Granted most thread debates do take that turn for the worst, but IMO the cord shouldn't be pulled until that point.

Any debate is going to have heated moments, it's a argument, that's how it goes. It's only when it turns into personal attacks that there is a problem. As long as the parties don't resort to that then why should a thread be closed? The argument was on topic and didn't contain personal attacks. Neither of us had a "behavior" issue.

Anyways take it as constructive criticism eh. And maybe you and I can continue our conversation/debate regarding the camber/profiles of certain corners

We have a very simple policy here at GT Planet and that is you can attack the argument a person is making all you want, just don't attack the person. Now you can either make the choice to follow it or you can leave.

If you can't see that you posts fall on the wrong side of this then I have some concerns regarding your future as a member.

We don't ask that you agree with the AUP and how it is enforce, but we do expect you to follow it and given that you are in the mood to quote it, please don't miss this bit...

You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content.

...both of you have been asked and you are now expected to follow that request.

As far as my contribution to any discussion go, the inability of members to follow the AUP have effectively killed that for the moment, the moderation of this thread and therefore the overall well being of the site take priority.

In closing do not mistake this for a subject open for debate or discussion, either follow the AUP and the requests of the staff in regard to posting style or don't. The choice is yours, however do not be surprised at teh results should you pick the latter.


Scaff

 

[Deadpool]

Still confused but whatever.

 

[rocketcaron]

GT Planet; A bottomless pit of entertaining feuds. Meaningless like reality TV, just better...

Now, back to that horribly wrong Nurburgring () with that incredibly cool 430 Scuderia!

 

[mykem]

GT Planet; A bottomless pit of entertaining feuds. Meaningless like reality TV, just better...

Now, back to that horribly wrong Nurburgring () with that incredibly cool 430 Scuderia!

You mean the Scuderia with the really mean pair of eyes What's up with that?

 

[Lukeydopeyus]

7:26.70 lap time on Nürburgring Nordschleife set in 23 April 2009 by Nissan test driver Toshio Suzuki driving a Nissan GTR, now matched in a GT5 presented in splitscreen vs real life video 1:1, GT5 Nissan GTR equipped with Sports-Medium tires - different than the default tires in the game, no assists, with steering wheel and a nice large screen. Unbelievable ... I was stunned with this video ... don't think Forza 4 can match this ....
Most default tires given in GT5 for the cars purchased are not the correct one - usually for cars lower than 400 hp will have more realistic lap times in Nordschleife with comfort soft or sports hard - tried it with R33 GTR and Viper GTS premium, while more powerful cars - exotics + tuned cars will be more realistic with sports medium/soft. Racing cars should have racing hard tires in my opinion, I love to have the challenge of driving with lower grip tires - they gave more realistic feedback and handling - most of my time trial as well as online races are done in comfort medium or sports medium.

And here is another video of the same guy drifting with clutch + shifter in a Nissan Fairlady, cool



I wonder if Forza 4 drifting is as good as this, mind you this was taken from GT5 Prologue, GT5 2.0 should have even better drift mechanics, I think ...

And also what's with the wide FOV in Forza 4, it may make the car moves a lot faster, but the visual has that fish eye tendency, the chase car view gets narrower, I know some people say we can change the FOV in Forza 4 via multi screen options, but can it be set to have similar FOV with GT5 ? ... then the sense of speed effect would be the same

Aha, found a similar trick with GT5, awesome , now I can change the angle of view which affect irrespective to the in dash view setting - wide, zoom and extra zoom. Available in similar ways with Forza 4, via multi monitor setting, set up as server, then adjust the angle of view from 50% - super zoom to 100% super wide, experiment ... try it now, 50% might gives u headache as the driver cockpit view shakes so much, but when u r behind another car, well the detail is superb

 

[phillgt2002]

There is a video of the Ring at sunset on Forza 4 . I can't post it right now. It looks alot better graphically !

 

[Lukeydopeyus]

Did not notice it before, but when u change the angle of view in GT5 to less than ( zoom in ) 100% which is the default in single monitor as well, the driver cockpit view effect is pronounced even more, tried 80% - seems to be the natural angle of view - not too narrow or too wide - the bumps on the road, brake and acceleration inertia can be felt more realistic, even better than Forza 4 me thinks ... or is it just me , Try it guys with 80% angle of view in multi monitor options set as server

The 80% angle of view in GT5 is for the wide setting of cockpit view, if set to zoom or extra zoom, you need to compensate the angle of view - increase it by 5 or 10 percent For fun try 80% with extra zoom, you'll get surprised at the driver head movement or go extreme 50% with extra zoom and enjoy crazy ride ....

 

[azrael1965]

Today i had played GTR Evolution on PS for a few hours. Sure the graphics were poor and already below average in 2008, the year of its release, but the 2008 PC Sim had a much more accurate version of Nordschleife then FM4. Really a shame, because FM4 is a great game, that i really enjoy.
This is a video of the GT-R evolution Nordschleife. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXlr52Cp_Uo&feature=player_embedded

 

[Lukeydopeyus]

Experimenting with angle of view, spent couple of hours tinkering the setting in GT5, here are 3 good set up for 3 different view - Wide = 75-78%, Zoom = 85-88%, Extra Zoom = 95-98%, beware tho, this will also affect the in cockpit other view replay. My usual choice is Zoom with 88% angle of view, just perfect ...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If you're going to post in this thread with no intentions past flame-baiting (which is typically your only reason for popping into the Forza section), expect your comments to be deleted, and infractions to be handed out if you continue.

(Yes, to be clear, a post was deleted).

Have something to actually add to the thread's discussion? By all means, add.

For example: I haven't done much racing on the Nurb in FM4, but when I do, it's not the slightly wider aspect that ruins it for me (it really is hardly noticeable if you're moving at race pace); it's the lack of any atmosphere. It feels like the early, slightly foggy morning before a team is going to make a run at a record, before the crowds get there, and while that's nice... GT5's track just feels more alive. It's unfortunate, because I'm a big fan of the Nordschleife, but it in no way ruins the game for me, because as others have pointed out, there's more to a racing game than a lone track. The Roads Atlanta and America, and Mugello, are three other real-life tracks I'm all too happy to be able to enjoy in FM4, and Motegi's inclusion is a bit of a sting since it was cut from GT5 (here's hoping the long-running rumour of getting our GT4 tracks is true).

It's easy to dismiss the FM4 'Ring by watching a video online and comparing it. It's much less of an issue when you're racing on it, but even taking that into account, GT5's iteration is better. Hopefully the criticisms are heard by T10 and they work towards finally replacing it with their own, from-scratch model.

 

[Horde_R35]

Haters gonna hate right?


Well on another matter: I would buy Montegi any day of the week. Really loved that track:tup:.

 

[another_jakhole]

What I meant to say was, "I don't like FM's Nurb."

Whats not to like? PD needs to take note both on the Zonda's sound, and that Radical! Wow!

To this

I should have said, "This is completely off topic and wasn't deleted."

First reply of the thread.

 

[adramire]

Defend it all you want but if you are a true car enthusiast F4 version of the ring is inexcusable.

 

[Tornado]

Defend it all you want but if you are a true car enthusiast F4 version of the ring is inexcusable.

Yeah, this probably falls under what Slip just said about not flame-baiting.


That is to say, saying that the only way people wouldn't find Forza's Nurburgring ragequit worthy like it is to you being because they aren't "true car enthusiasts" is elitist nonsense.

 

[cuco33]

Defend it all you want but if you are a true car enthusiast F4 version of the ring is inexcusable.

I'm a massive, die hard, tried and true car enthusiast and I see absolutely NOTHING wrong about the FM4 version of Nordschleife. I think it's modeled very well and is the best Nord in the Forza series to day. I just think that GT5's version, personally, looks better. Saying inexcusable or implying anything like it is nothing more than fanboy flaimbait speak...

 

[azrael1965]

I'm a massive, die hard, tried and true car enthusiast and I see absolutely NOTHING wrong about the FM4 version of Nordschleife. I think it's modeled very well and is the best Nord in the Forza series to day. I just think that GT5's version, personally, looks better. Saying inexcusable or implying anything like it is nothing more than fanboy flaimbait speak...

Unfortunatly it's not modeled very well. The GTR Evolution Nordschleife might look ugly but basically it has the same layout as the GT5 one, which is nearer to real life. The one in Forza doesn't even have the correct length. I don't care about graphics at all, but the size has to be accurate. The rfactor nordschleife seems to be ok too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaPoC1SAzxI
Forza is a sim driving game and there is a reason why iracing uses laser scanned tracks. I still hope for Nordschleife in iracing one day.

Hopefully the criticisms are heard by T10 and they work towards finally replacing it with their own, from-scratch model.

All we can do is hope for a better one in FM5. Better a bad Nordschleife then none at all.

 

[skazz]

I'm not sure if this kind of test result has been posted yet, but I've done my own testing as to the exact length of Forza 4's Nordschleife...

I used brand new cars in GT5 and Forza 4. I drove one lap in practice mode in GT5, and one lap in rivals mode time trial in Forza 4 (since free run mode doesn't save car km). Both were clean laps following the racing line:
-- GT5 car showed 21.0km
-- Forza 4 car showed 24.34km

Bear in mind that 20.83km is the official length of the track. Forza is roughly 15% oversize.

 

[HAL20XX]

I'm a massive, die hard, tried and true car enthusiast and I see absolutely NOTHING wrong about the FM4 version of Nordschleife. I think it's modeled very well and is the best Nord in the Forza series to day. I just think that GT5's version, personally, looks better. Saying inexcusable or implying anything like it is nothing more than fanboy flaimbait speak...

I agree. The saying, "Can't see the forest for the trees" comes to mind.

 

[Christhedude]

I have raced hundreds of laps professionaly around the nurburgring nordschleife, my last race was last weekend, and i can assure you, that the nordschleife in Forza 4 is so far off from being anywhere close to realism that its sad.

I have played both GT5's and Forza's version, and GT5 so far has the most accurate version on consoles.

Forza 4's version is just so wide and smooth, nothing at all like the real ring.
Honestly said, when i drove around the ring on FM4 it felt like a different track.

Qualyfing around the Nurburgring + Nordschleife in a Porsche GT3 CUP S 997