Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Wolfe]

Uh, I guess you're right, I've got no idea what you're on about, anymore.

Is it just the choice of words people use when discussion these things?

I don't know. I can't find a way to explain it that isn't overtly personal and off-topic.

Hopefully this quote tower will demonstrate how we share common ground:

...I just feel that it's not quite the wise decision to start adding such oddball cars for relatively small groups of enthusiasts before you're done with cars that appeal to a large amount of people.

I agree...I'd like to see more sporty-ish daily drivers everyone knows before PD/T10 fill out the rare and unusual cars.

Comment: To some people I'm sure daily drivers are the oddball cars. But I think FM4 has the popular sportscar and exotic categories pretty well covered (apart from the obvious). GT5 certainly leaves room for improvement, but it just wouldn't be Gran Turismo without City Turbo IIs, Midgets, Micras, and AZ-1s driving around. I really like the City and the AZ-1, too.

There's a difference in "not belonging" in a game...and priorities.

Why must it be "we should have had X instead of Y, because Y is a stupid car", when it doesn't accomplish any more than "I wish we had X because I like that car"...?

Comment: Why must it be "the Veyron should have been a Premium instead of the Prius, because the Prius is a stupid car", when it doesn't accomplish any more than "PD should have taken the time to model the Veyron as a Premium because it's an important car."

Actually to be fair, that first version does accomplish more -- it creates headaches and conflict as opinions collide. Where have we seen that before?

...if it was possible, I'd love to have all cars in the game.

...why argue over which is "more worthy" when we can both agree it'd be nice if T10/PD had the time to include both?

No comment.

And the crux of my last big post:

There are a million different perspectives here.

...what good does it do to discredit cars that were lucky enough to make the cut, or that others might like?

...complaining about the PT Cruiser...will bait any FWD Chrysler fans we happen to have around.

I'm just asking that we talk about what we'd like to drive, not which cars "don't belong."

 

[Leicht]

Please come back to me when Forza 4 can handle 12 cars on the track let alone 16......it only has 16 in multiplayer.

Standard cars are inferior obviously because they ported from ps2's. That argument is just a waste of time. However it is clear that GT5's premium cars far exceed the graphical quality of Forza's cars.

I would say these are edited

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The Maser image may not be - but that Ferrari shot certainly is.

I don't think many people will argue that the best-modelled Premiums do exceed FM4's cars, quality-wise. Though saying "far exceed" is a bit of a stretch, as they're pretty close. The lighting in FM4 was the major improvement compared to 3, but it still can't quite match GT's in the best situations.

I think I'm getting what Wolfe is saying - I'd love just about any car in either game, because it's always interesting to try them all. I will however say I sometimes find, in GT's case, the choices for the Premium process a bit strange - the Veyron and JZA80 are two of the best examples that come to mind, and the R8 LMS (if only because it would seem to be a relatively easy process, what with a road car already available).

 

[imported_SuperCobraJet]

IMO, all this nit-picking over the graphic quality of the cars, only detracts from substantitive issues with both games.

Its pretty obvious that, except for GT5's standards, both games have good enough car, graphic quality and quantity.

Anything can be improved upon, but its also obvious, thats not the area of the games, most neglected.

Neither game has any qualifying, or series championships.
Both games went backwards in this respect.

Yeah, GT5 has WRS and cup Nascars, and practically no events to use them in.

FM4, has no endurance races.

Neither game has what I would call a great selection of wheels, and GT has none for standards.

Both games use a version of the, archaic and unimaginitive as it gets, "level up" system.
How about something better on this one, with a little innovation and imagination?

Personally, I think both PD and Turn10 went the wrong direction.

FM4 is basically just another retread of the last 3 games, and they should have gone for a past due, complete new game.

PD went for a complete new game and flubbed it.
I only wish they had gone for a retread of GT4.
Its likely if they had, we would have a truly great game.

Game greatness is a lot more than a matter of "looks".

 

[UKMikey]

Perhaps Turn10 felt that if they waited a couple of years for Microsoft to release a past due,completely new iteration of their console hardware then any new engine they're working on wouldn't be compromised to hell as far as performance is concerned.

 

[artboy76]

Surely though regardless of how great the prem cars are the standard ones detract from the whole package to the point of making the game, for me, a failure for the consumer.

If i go for a posh meal at a nice restaurant, order say a steak, the steak comes out and it has some scabby potatoes and veg nestelled along side it and its served on a dirty plate. HOWEVER fantastic that steak was, even if it was the best steak i had ever eaten in my life.
I'd be disapointed and more to the point, question why they would make such a fine steak but spoil it with bad veg and dirty plate........... why can they not make veg as well as the steak would be my question......and i would be left thinking....

"what if.....if only.....if only they put as much care and attention into the veg......"

 

[Luminis]

Surely though regardless of how great the prem cars are the standard ones detract from the whole package to the point of making the game, for me, a failure for the consumer.

The annoying thing (to me) is that PD/Sony are advertising the game as having 1000 cars in it. If it was just the 220 premium cars that they were advertising, and also allowing me to turn the standard cars off, it'd be awhole lot better right there.

Granted, that would mean that the game would have to be 100% completable without using standard cars 8which it isn't), but that way, the standard cars would at least be what so many pro GT guys always claim: Just a bonus on top of the actual car list.

The way it is, though, you can't escape the standard cars, at all.

 

[artboy76]

The annoying thing (to me) is that PD/Sony are advertising the game as having 1000 cars in it. If it was just the 220 premium cars that they were advertising, and also allowing me to turn the standard cars off, it'd be awhole lot better right there.

Granted, that would mean that the game would have to be 100% completable without using standard cars 8which it isn't), but that way, the standard cars would at least be what so many pro GT guys always claim: Just a bonus on top of the actual car list.

The way it is, though, you can't escape the standard cars, at all.

I'd never refer to the standard cars as a "bonus" thats for sure....it begins with B and ends with S but it ain't bonus.................

 

[Spagetti69]

Bottles.....?

Ah first post in a GT vs Forza thread. ......Must stay strong.........must stay away.

 

[omgitsbees]

Even if Gran Turismo does have better looking cars, and better looking graphics overall, what it ultimately comes down to is that GT5 is just plain, flatout, not at all fun to play. The career mode is just a complete and utter bore and the online events are equally as boring and unexciting. Maybe if the A.I. displayed some actual behavior and the Online Events were not just catch up to all of the cars and then you win automatically, GT5 would be worth something.

I really like in Forza 4 that I can set the A.I. to professional and they display some really amazing behavior and personality. Positions are fought over constantly across grid and it's a real challenge to keep up and stay in 1st place.

In the 1500+ races I did in GT5, the A.I. was just in the way.

If I was asked by someone if they should buy GT5, I would give them a straight up no, on that alone. The game completely fails to be a video game at all, and there is virtually no reason to ever want to start it up. It just isn't interesting or fun to play.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Bottles.....?

Ah first post in a GT vs Forza thread. ......Must stay strong.........must stay away.

Come on...jump in...the water is pretty warm

With GT I can find some redeeming qualities if I look hard, with FM I don't have to spend any time looking - it's all there staring me straight in the face (and ears!!!). No game is perfect but FM hits it on the head in so many areas.

The graphics in both, exteriors/interiors (not including standards) and tracks, accomplish the requirementds of a virtual racing/driving sim on the current generation of consoles. The GT side of the VS discussion cling to very specific small areas of success.
Lets focus the discussion on "sound" and "customization". These are just as important, especiallly "sound", to complete the experience. To me, the sound of "most" of the GT cars are a complete failure (vacuum cleaners). It's like watching a blu-ray movie through the television speakers - you loose so much of the immersion factor.

 

[t.o.]

Lets focus the discussion on "sound" and "customization". These are just as important, especiallly "sound", to complete the experience. To me, the sound of "most" of the GT cars are a complete failure (vacuum cleaners). It's like watching a blu-ray movie through the television speakers - you loose so much of the immersion factor.

I remember reading a post about sound on a forum specifically about sound in movies and sound engineers. It was basically from a guy who does sound for movies. He went on a well thought out mini-rant about how young up and coming directors spend all their time and money in how a picture looks and treat the sound as an after thought, as if they hired their cousin who works at McDonalds but used to be a DJ to do the sound. He goes on with examples of movies that could have been much more with better sound and some that wouldn't have been anything if it wasn't for the sound. (Most every action flick really when you think about it) When reading the article you would swear the guy is talking about GT5.

 

[Wolfe]

Lets focus the discussion on "sound" and "customization". These are just as important, especiallly "sound", to complete the experience. To me, the sound of "most" of the GT cars are a complete failure (vacuum cleaners). It's like watching a blu-ray movie through the television speakers - you loose so much of the immersion factor.

In Forza 4's case, though, instead of vacuum cleaners you get exaggeratedly loud and raspy engines that really don't change much in tone (if at all) when you customize them.

The sounds are more accurate than GT5's for sure, especially in cross-plane crankshaft V8s -- the "burbly" V8s -- and I can recognize my cars' engines in the 2002 Turbo or E30 M3 (the M10 in my 318i) and the 22B (the EJ22 in my Legacy), but I find it difficult to believe the 2002 Turbo is so buzzy in real life. I can barely hear the timbre I recognize from my BMW, because it's overwhelmed by a million angry bees in a tin can.

To use t.o.'s movie example as a metaphor, if GT5's sounds were like an independent student film, FM4's sounds are like a mega-blockbuster where everything has to be explosions and crashes and bombastic. More exciting, but not necessarily more realistic.

 

[t.o.]

In Forza 4's case, though, instead of vacuum cleaners you get exaggeratedly loud and raspy engines that really don't change much in tone (if at all) when you customize them.

The sounds are more accurate than GT5's for sure, especially in cross-plane crankshaft V8s -- the "burbly" V8s -- and I can recognize my cars' engines in the 2002 Turbo or E30 M3 (the M10 in my 318i) and the 22B (the EJ22 in my Legacy), but I find it difficult to believe the 2002 Turbo is so buzzy in real life. I can barely hear the timbre I recognize from my BMW, because it's overwhelmed by a million angry bees in a tin can.

To use t.o.'s movie example as a metaphor, if GT5's sounds were like an independent student film, FM4's sounds are like a mega-blockbuster where everything has to be explosions and crashes and bombastic. More exciting, but not necessarily more realistic.

I'd put more like when firing an M16 there's a subtle sound difference when firing your last round. FM4 is so detailed it has that sound but the timbre may be off. GT5 doesn't have it all and the sounds of the rounds that are being fired are questionable at best.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

In Forza 4's case, though, instead of vacuum cleaners you get exaggeratedly loud and raspy engines...

Hmm... vacuum cleaners or exaggeratedly loud and raspy... OK, I vote for the later (FM)

EDIT: I will admit I am biased towards American cars so when I get in my Corvette in GT I cannot put up with the sound. Sounds nothing like the Corvettes I have owned IRL.

 

[omgitsbees]

The sound effects in Forza 4 are still very close to accurate, where in GT5 they aren't even close. The sound effects in GT5 were very amateur and failed to deliver anything to the user. Whether you played the game with the sound on or muted, you got the same experience, which is just pathetic.

 

[Imari]

Actually, I would have said that Shift 2 sounds were more like the mega-blockbuster. Great and pretty accurate if you're driving a race car, but way over the top for street cars. Forza 4 definitely leans in that direction, but it's not quite as bad.

I do prefer the exaggerated style though, in general. It gives some of that racey feeling that you'd normally get from feeling your car shake and vibrate under you.

 

[Wolfe]

I agree with all of you. I did sort of understate how much closer to reality FM4 is than GT5. It's no contest...but FM4 definitely goes a bit too far.

Actually, I would have said that Shift 2 sounds were more like the mega-blockbuster. Great and pretty accurate if you're driving a race car, but way over the top for street cars. Forza 4 definitely leans in that direction, but it's not quite as bad.

I do prefer the exaggerated style though, in general. It gives some of that racey feeling that you'd normally get from feeling your car shake and vibrate under you.

I actually had Shift 2's racecar sounds in mind, but I haven't played that game, only seen snippets of video, so I wasn't sure how they came into play. Even street cars do it? That's funny.

The exaggerated style is alright, but it kind of kills the contrast between different engines of the same layout. At least there's still a clear distinction between a flat-plane V8 and a cross-plane V8. With how incredibly different those two sound, it's inexcusable for a game to mess up one or the other.

 

[imported_SuperCobraJet]

I'd never refer to the standard cars as a "bonus" thats for sure....it begins with B and ends with S but it ain't bonus.................

I think you mean, ends with a T.

 

[Luminis]

The sounds are more accurate than GT5's for sure
[...]
More exciting, but not necessarily more realistic.

I think you mean, ends with a T.

Maybe he meant 'bollocks'?

 

[artboy76]

luminis. 10 points to you.!! lol.


Shift 2 and Forza use sound to make up for the fact we arent actually in the cars , so it makes perfect sense why they are OTT.

 

[Killer46]

How can you possibly slate the forza livery editor. it is by far one of the most OUTSTANDING elements of the whole game!!!!

Because if it's not in GT 5, it's a totally worthless feature that doesn't belong in any racing game.

 

[H.Keslijinen]

Really? I have a direct quote from one of the drivers in the winning car saying they all played GT5. What do you have? I can't find anything on it. I guess I could DM Simon on Twitter since he follows me and ask him.

https://twitter.com/#!/simonpagenaud/status/65879830377410560


Luminis. The Prius is not only the #1 selling car in Japan, its been selling like hot cakes everywhere in the world. They have been selling them for 14 years. Go and ask any one who works in a common job with a regular car if they have heard of Prius or Veyron and see what happens. With 2 million Prius sold, I am sure that many that bought GT5 own one. Who DOESN't want to drive their car in a video game? Especially if its tricked out. How many movies have featured the Veyron? How many commercials do you see? The average person has NO CLUE about the Veyron. But they sure as heck know what a Prius is.

The Prius is sold in more than 70 countries and regions, and has its largest markets in the United States, Japan, and Europe.[2] In May 2008, Toyota announced that its worldwide cumulative sales of the Prius had passed the 1 million mark;[64] worldwide cumulative sales surpassed 2 million units in September 2010.[2]

Silly, silly, silly. The Prius is ugly, slow, uneconomical and bad for the planet.
The Veyeron is an engineering and mechanical masterwork. The prius and the nazi mobiles are oddities and as such should have been released after cars that people actually want to experience, if at all. Furthermore, to base a cars status as a fine set of wheels on the sales figures than by all accounts we should be driving ford transits and mondeos' and ford F-150's. Do you think the ford F-150 is iconic? They sell more F-150's every year than Toyota have ever sold Prius's. What exactly is your logic? and why defend a 70mph ****box?

 

[buickgnx88]

Technically the F-150 could be considered iconic, since the F-series has been around since the late 40's. The actual designation of F-150 came about in the late 70's, however the F-100 moniker was introduced in the 50's.

 

[OLDSKOOLACURA]

don't forget in GT5 you could barely hear the turbos or superchargers, big deal to me because I love the sound. FORZA you can hear them loud and clear

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Technically the F-150 could be considered iconic, since the F-series has been around since the late 40's. The actual designation of F-150 came about in the late 70's, however the F-100 moniker was introduced in the 50's.

The term "iconic" is relative. To Ford or a truck enthusiast an F-150 could be considered iconic. Same could be said for a Prius. In a racing/driving game or in the history of road racing an F-150 wouldn't be iconic.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

What exactly is your logic? and why defend a 70mph ****box?

There are a fair amount of cars in FM4 that will get trounced by a stock Prius in-game. Should they all be cut too? Where do you draw the line on what's acceptable performance-wise?

I'm not exactly a fan of the Prius, but part of the appeal of GT1 all those years ago was taking relatively common cars like Civics and Miatas and beating up on much more impressive machinery. The Prius definitely keeps that spirit alive in racing games - it's entertaining to win against "real" sports cars.

 

[GTMail]

I understand why the Prius is in the game. It's revolutionary car. It was one of the first hybrids(older model of course) and a lot of people own them. I know from experience because both my cars are in the game(neither are even close to being in GT5) that it's awesome to drive your own car in a video game. Also to customize it any way you want.

 

[Imari]

The prius and the nazi mobiles are oddities and as such should have been released after cars that people actually want to experience, if at all.

Aah, Godwin's Law. It never fails.

 

[omgitsbees]

Aah, Godwin's Law. It never fails.

He is talking about the two World War II era military Volkswagon cars in GT5.