Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[H.Keslijinen]

Technically the F-150 could be considered iconic, since the F-series has been around since the late 40's. The actual designation of F-150 came about in the late 70's, however the F-100 moniker was introduced in the 50's.

Personally I think the F-150 and entire F series of pickups is not only iconic but also a slice of pure americana, much more so than a Prius. I'm not saying the Prius is a slice of Americana. It's a slice of...well let's just leave it at that.

There are a fair amount of cars in FM4 that will get trounced by a stock Prius in-game. Should they all be cut too? Where do you draw the line on what's acceptable performance-wise?

I'm not exactly a fan of the Prius, but part of the appeal of GT1 all those years ago was taking relatively common cars like Civics and Miatas and beating up on much more impressive machinery. The Prius definitely keeps that spirit alive in racing games - it's entertaining to win against "real" sports cars.

I agree. Except the Prius has one gear and is very uninteresting to drive. It has no character. The slower cars you refer to must be cars such as a toyota 2000gt or perhaps a citroen 2CV. Which I think are great cars with pedigree and history. I don't think creating a fake pedigree for a garbage car makes it exciting, or fun. Have you driven the Prius in GT5? I did.My girlfriend thought I was Hoovering the flat!!!!

 

[HBK]

Silly, silly, silly. The Prius is ugly, slow, uneconomical and bad for the planet.

Well, the Veyron is ugly, fast, uneconomical and bad for the planet.

So unless only fast cars are allowed in racing games (how do you define "fast" btw ?), I fail to see your point here.

 

[UKMikey]

His point is that he felt the more exciting car to drive should have been modelled as a Premium car while the more boring eco mobile shouldn't've been a Premium... at least not at the expense of the Veyron.

Forgive me if I've put words into anyone's mouth here. It's Polyphony Digital's priorities which appear to be in question here regardless of whatever merits the Prius may or may not possess as a car in itself, as far as I can see.

 

[cuco33]

To me it's not just about the Prius vs the Veyron for premium vs standard argument... Another iconic legend, at least when I was a kid, the Lambo Countach is also a standard car. I've read the excuse that the Countach was in GT4 and is why it got the standard treatment. That's fine then... but it does not explain the Veyron as it's new to the series (first entry was GT PSP), an icon, an engineering marvel, for some time the fastest production vehicle boasting more than 1000hp and it still got the standard treatment. And I know it's uber heavy in real life but PD modeled it to be a freakin whale which is unlike the real thing (based on Top Gear lap time being 12th fastest of all cars tested to date and Nurburgring's 7:40 time IN TRAFFIC!!). As gorgeous as premium cars are, the Veyron was one I wanted to be a premium especially for it's interior (I know you could order the interior any way you wanted with colors and trim and materials but PD could have picked 1 they liked and gone with that).

I'm not just on the supercars thing. I'm fine with the smaller, slower, less powerful, more 'daily' based cars out there but it's a racing game and if premium treatment should be given it should go towards cars with some type of racing pedigree. The mk1 Rabbit GTI looks like a PS2 HD remake model and is THE original hot hatch that started the craze.

 

[HBK]

His point is that he felt the more exciting car to drive should have been modelled as a Premium car while the more boring eco mobile shouldn't've been a Premium... at least not at the expense of the Veyron.

Forgive me if I've put words into anyone's mouth here. It's Polyphony Digital's priorities which appear to be in question here regardless of whatever merits the Prius may or may not possess as a car in itself, as far as I can see.

I was just nitpicking. As much as I understand and agree to a degree that the Veyron should have been given priority over the Prius as being a Premium, I want to emphasize that even if the Prius if far from being your typical sport car, it is an iconic car and it completely deserves to be featured in a "car game".

Edit : And no, I'm no big fan of the Prius either.

Edit 2 : To be even more clearer, if we are to question PD's priorities, which is completely relevant given the game they gave us (well, sold to us), we should not fight over which car should have been a Premium, as I find it mostly pointless given that everyone's tastes are different and no car is objectively more legitimate to be a Premium than another one.

 

[rocketcaron]

What is sad with GT5 is that its reign as the best console driving game was short and heavily contested. And the thing is, Sony looking at the sales number is not going to care.

With the latest update for FM4, I don't feel the need to play GT5 anymore. The physics model with corrected steering mapping is making this game everything I wanted it to be. And then some.

GT5 by comparison is like an old car that was cool in its time but getting long in the tooth even if they try to ad a wing here and a turbo there to keep it ''fresh''. I have not played it 15 days in a row now and can't see when I'll fire it up again... I guess I'll see you in 6 years GT.

 

[X-Ray-Cat]

GT5 by comparison is like an old car that was cool in its time but getting long in the tooth even if they try to ad a wing here and a turbo there to keep it ''fresh''. I have not played it 15 days in a row now and can't see when I'll fire it up again... I guess I'll see you in 6 years GT.

You explained exactly how I feel. I wanted GT5 to be the world. I was so hopefull for it that I went out and dropped 4.5G on a 3d tv just for the 3d experience. I pre ordered a limited edition copy AND purchased a standard copy just because the store I pre ordered at wasnt open on midnight at the time of release! After all this I played the game for about 2 and a half weeks. And to be honest 2 weeks of that I felt like I was forcing myself to do it.

Its a shame.

 

[cuco33]

I was just nitpicking. As much as I understand and agree to a degree that the Veyron should have been given priority over the Prius as being a Premium, I want to emphasize that even if the Prius if far from being your typical sport car, it is an iconic car and it completely deserves to be featured in a "car game".

Edit : And no, I'm no big fan of the Prius either.

Edit 2 : To be even more clearer, if we are to question PD's priorities, which is completely relevant given the game they gave us (well, sold to us), we should not fight over which car should have been a Premium, as I find it mostly pointless given that everyone's tastes are different and no car is objectively more legitimate to be a Premium than another one.

Food for thought... standard vs premium existence should never have occurred. This was the first and only time I've ever heard of content being split up like this in any game, in any generation, on any platform. I think PD looked at it and went 'well we can have 200-250 premium cars or make a lot of these existing GT4 cars as a standard, lower quality, lacking features the premiums have, etc... and if we're going to do it... we're going to do it and add the majority of content since it'll peg the game at 1000+ cars.

To me knowing the split was there, I can understand why existing GT4 content got the standard treatment but I can't understand why new cars to the series got the standard treatment at all. Which I think is why the Veyron vs Prius is brought up on the norm when discussing standards vs premiums. I'm not a fan of the split. I'm a BIG VW/Audi fan and the BBS RS premium wheels in photo travel are simply stunning (still is my PS3 wallpaper and GT avatar!) and VW guys slap this wheel on the norm on mk1 VW rabbits to even mk4 VW R32s... sadly, because the bulk of these cars are standards, I can't slap this wheel on anything but the mk4 GTI (non-R32). I also can't take a lot of Italian sports/super cars to goregous Italian photo travel back drops because they are standards but hey... I can take a Prius, a VW hippy bus and a Schwimwagen there if I like!
Just makes me sad... and if you didn't know, I hate this split and disparity that exists in GT5 and love the fact that T10 decided to keep everything consistent (aside from AV mode of course). Sadly this is also true on other features and modes in the game, not even related to the standard vs premium thing, some of which has been patched but many of which has not.

 

[X-Ray-Cat]

So unless only fast cars are allowed in racing games

It could be that I was raised in a back-woods, Ignorant, Inbred, Bogan country. But I was always under the impression that a race had something to do with covering a specified distance in the least time. Unless im wrong, A racing game favoring "fast" cars over "green" cars kind of seems like common sense.

But who knows what means what in todays watered down, feel good "try not to exclude anybody" politically correct world.

 

[imported_JJ72]

um, it has nothing to do with being politically correct.

Different tier of racing provide difference experience and associate with different racing cultures, Hence why even old bangers and oddball cars has a space in such a game.

And Forza isn't purely a racing sim, it has a bit more for people who is interested in cars from other angles, either it is from a aesthetic point of view or in the case of green cars, a technological progression point of view.

though not interested in these cars myself, I do can imagine some people getting a kick out of tuning these green machines and see how they flair against traditional engines under the same spec.

and may I just add speed, power and grip has no direction relation to how fun a form a motorsport is, from the point of view of a participant.

 

[artboy76]

The issue here isnt whether a Prius should be in a motoring game (thats a separate debate and one which i will say to the hilt if your choice of car is Prius then you dont like cars much let alone want to drive the same car in a game.)

But the issue is actually whether given that PD had to make only 200 prem cars in their game......... really honestly hand on heart can anyone say.....that given that choice........of those 200 precious slots......or all the great / iconic / plan weird or legendary cars available......

would you of chosen the Prius!!!????? (unless toyota were paying you a fortune to do so.)


no from me...

money talks....and Toyota have loads of it!!

think about that one..

 

[Luminis]

though not interested in these cars myself, I do can imagine some people getting a kick out of tuning these green machines and see how they flair against traditional engines under the same spec.

You basically said it yourself. Some people. If there's a choice to make between making a car premium that will likely please some people and a car that will likely please a whole lot of people, which one should receive higher priority?

Don't get me wrong, all cars have sort form of legitimate reason to be in the game. I guess that there's at least one enthusiast for every single last car on the planet. I still won't agree that it's a good idea to add these cars before adding stuff that's appealing to a wider audience.

and may I just add speed, power and grip has no direction relation to how fun a form a motorsport is, from the point of view of a participant.

Fun. Yeah, fun is where it's add, isn't it? Now, if you were to go out and ask 100 people what they'd consider a fun car to drive on a track, would the Prius be likely to get named even once? I doubt that.

That's why I don't get why it's included in GT5 as a premium, while many, many other cars didn't recieve that treatment. The fact that the Veyron is in the game as a standard just makes this all the more clear, in my opinion.

And this leads me back to a point that has been made before: PD made the game they wanted, with the cars they wanted. I doubt that there was much consideration for what the players want.

would you of chosen the Prius!!!????? (unless toyota were paying you a fortune to do so.)

I'd assume that most of the fanbase of GT would've named another car for that slot... However, I assume that it was more like...

Kazunori: "Alright, what cars should we add? Any good ideas?"
RandomPDGuy#7: "I drive a Prius. It's cool."
Kazunori: "Nice, we'll do that! What's next? What's that? Ten of you own Miatas?"

 

[Wolfe]

There are a fair amount of cars in FM4 that will get trounced by a stock Prius in-game. Should they all be cut too? Where do you draw the line on what's acceptable performance-wise?

...we should not fight over which car should have been a Premium, as I find it mostly pointless given that everyone's tastes are different and no car is objectively more legitimate to be a Premium than another one.

👍

I guess that there's at least one enthusiast for every single last car on the planet. I still won't agree that it's a good idea to add these cars before adding stuff that's appealing to a wider audience.

I think this is the point we couldn't reconcile before. In my opinion, you really can't wait until you've got "everything" with mass appeal before you start adding the unique and unusual cars. How many cars would you need? Following HBK's point above, what objectively belongs on that list?

I don't think what you seem to be asking for is possible. A developer could certainly try to make a game "oddball-free," and the Need for Speed series is probably the best example of such a thing. But I would say it's inevitable that some people will complain about xxx car being in the game instead of yyy car. That will always happen.

 

[omgitsbees]

One of the very few things I like about Gran Turismo is the rare and unique cars that people don't really know about and don't have mass appeal. GT5 left out some of the really cool ones from GT4, and that was disappointing, but there are enough here to still be pretty cool. The issue, yet again, is that it was ruined by not making them premium models.

 

[HBK]

It could be that I was raised in a back-woods, Ignorant, Inbred, Bogan country. But I was always under the impression that a race had something to do with covering a specified distance in the least time. Unless im wrong, A racing game favoring "fast" cars over "green" cars kind of seems like common sense.

Okay, so what level of "fast" is acceptable in a racing game ? I suppose purpose built race cars count. But what about supercars ? Do they count ? Then what about Japanese sport cars ? Do they count too ? And how do you categorize muscle cars ? They're fast on a straight line but they have a hard time coping with any real track. Are they accepted ?

See ? Unless you specify "it's a NASCAR game" or "it's a LMP game" or "it's a ALMS game", pretty much every car is acceptable in a "car game".

Would have I preferred the Veyron to be chosen over a Prius ? Yes. What I don't lose track of is that this is strictly a matter of personal preference.

Oh, and to be clear, the Standard vs Premium issue is a mess caused by PD's unhealthy obsession of ticking more boxes than their competitor. It should never have happened. But fighting over which car should be a Premium or not ? Come on.

 

[t.o.]

Please come back to me when Forza 4 can handle 12 cars on the track let alone 16......it only has 16 in multiplayer.

16 is a healthy number for online racing. 8 was pretty low and the community let Turn10 know about it. Guess what, we got double that. They responded. In all honesty anything over 12 and you really need to have quite a few laps run in order to even make it worth while for the guys in the back. Trying to pick through any more than 10 humans on a 5 lap race is just not good. Even if they had 32 people online capacity or more who wants to join in an public lobby and be number 31 and have only 7 laps to try to pick your way through the fray. You'd need to have at least 15 laps minimum to give the guys in the back a chance and a 15 lap race as the norm in a public lobby is a bit long for most.

 

[X-Ray-Cat]

Okay, so what level of "fast" is acceptable in a racing game ? I suppose purpose built race cars count. But what about supercars ? Do they count ? Then what about Japanese sport cars ? Do they count too ? And how do you categorize muscle cars ? They're fast on a straight line but they have a hard time coping with any real track. Are they accepted ?

You see, Everything mentioned there, Is designed at some level to either BE fast, FEEL fast, or actually compete. Supercars ARE fast, a large selection of japanese sport cars were designed as something you can drive through the week and take to the track on the weekend and are very well known for being "drivers cars". Muscle cars as you mentioned are designed to feel fast, they are designed to be exciting and believe it or not, ALOT of them are designed to race from stop light to stop light. As rediculous as this sounds, My pastor used to be an engineer for chevrolet a long time ago and he often recalls storys of how the engineers only goal designing these cars was basically to build something faster between lights than the other guys were releasing. racing Japanese sports cars and american muscle cars isnt that illogical. In the past it was not uncommen to run big overpowered american bricks and small nimble underpowered euro or Japanese cars in the same racing classes. Why? because it makes for exciting racing. Can the smaller Japanese/euros get far enough infront through the corners to hold the american muscle out on the straight.

Prius and other green ecoboxes have nothing in common with the types of cars you mentioned. they are NOT designed to be fast. they are NOT designed to feel fast, and they are specifically designed to give a bland, unconnected driving feel so as the drivers dont enjoy the drive and push the vehicle. they arent drivers cars. They arent designed to be fast going straight like american cars, they arent designed to be fast in the corners like Japanese cars, they arent designed to be fast everywhere like supercars.

Talking about racing prii is kind of like talking about using a womens shoe to hammer in nails. Its the wrong tool for the job.

Oh, and to be clear, the Standard vs Premium issue is a mess caused by PD's unhealthy obsession of ticking more boxes than their competitor. It should never have happened.

I dont think Anybody is disagreeing with that. PD lost focus and then lost the plot.

But fighting over which car should be a Premium or not ? Come on.

Its not unreasonable to expect cars designed to be fast in one way or another to be given more attention in a RACING GAME than cars that are designed soley to stop hippys standing out the front of your factory smoking pot, singing earth songs and accusing you of being the antichrist.

 

[Luminis]

I don't think what you seem to be asking for is possible. A developer could certainly try to make a game "oddball-free," and the Need for Speed series is probably the best example of such a thing. But I would say it's inevitable that some people will complain about xxx car being in the game instead of yyy car. That will always happen.

Two things are for sure:
1) People will always find that a specific car is missing, so someone is always going to be annoyed and complaining, that's a given. However, let's just assume that PD switched things up and had the Prius as a standard and the Veyron as a premium, do you think we would be having this specific discussion, at all? I highly doubt that.

Would as many people complain about the issue if they did it the other way around? I highly doubt that.

Is it a good idea to go with the decision that likely pleases less people for a game that's supposed to hit the mass market? I highly doubt that.

2) While it's not even possible to accurately measure which cars should be included because of their better general appeal, it is fairly possible to notice some blatantly strange decisions, especially if you habe relatively little car slots to work with and rub it in people's faces by having specific cars modelled to a third-rate standard.

Shift 2 Unleashed, while not that great a game overall, did that very well. Not all the cars were actually fast, but there were no choices that would make you scratch your head. Sure, a lot of cars were missing, especially with a car list that small. However, there weren't many cars that made you ask your self "Well, are there more than 100 people in the world who actually want to track that car?"

This isn't a black and white issue, not something that you havve to get perfect - because that would be impossible. But, frankly, I can't seem to see much reasoning behind that. And I'm all for the oddball cars... But wouldn't the standard treatment have been enough for cars that seem to be included mostly for the novelty value or a relatively small group of enthusiasts?

Again, it's not like we're talking about the premium treatment of a Miata vs. a Porsche 930, both of which have a huge racing pedegree and a lot of enthusiasts and fans who would love to drive them in a game. In that case, the decision would've been a hard one, one that would've been impossible to solve (disregarding licensing issues), but a Prius vs. the Veyron, now, that is a totally different story, isn't it?

 

[imported_JJ72]

they are specifically designed to give a bland, unconnected driving feel so as the drivers dont enjoy the drive and push the vehicle. they arent drivers cars. They arent designed to be fast going straight like american cars, they arent designed to be fast in the corners like Japanese cars, they arent designed to be fast everywhere like supercars.

then your reaction to people racing these will be....none of these start off as anything special.

almost everycar can be made into a driver's car with tuning so as forza provides the tool to do so, and providing you with the base car, which you can modify in varies degree of hardcoreness gives you more freedom instead of just throwing you the standard readymade racecar, so why not?

 

[artboy76]

Maybe if PD could be ar5ed to make all cars of equal standing then we'd not be having this discussion...........................which leads me back to why, for me. Forza nails it..... its shows real lack of respect for your consumer to produce those standard cars in the first place. Had they of not then the whole point would be moot.

They messed up with standard cars yet they will get away with it again because the core fan base of GT5 seem to be saying its fine.

Well you get what you ask for hence why i'll stick with Forza now and never be fooled into buying a PD product again...ever....

The fact i could sit here and pick out 10-20 things i'd want in Forza and 10 things i'm not happy about in Forza, but yet i am a massive fan and love the game to bits, yet 'most' GT5 fans cant even admit that Standard cars are a disgrace to gaming in this gen.

The standard cars are a 'bonus' in the same way finding a pube in your dinner is a 'bonus'.

good day.

 

[African Kat]

The standard cars are a 'bonus' in the same way finding a pube in your dinner is a 'bonus'.

good day.

Standard cars are'nt that bad man

 

[UKMikey]

Standard cars are'nt that bad man

Maybe, but I didn't pay three hundred quid for a bowl to eat the soup from first, like I did for my gathering dust PS3 (more if you count the wheel).

 

[HBK]

You see, Everything mentioned there, Is designed at some level to either BE fast, FEEL fast, or actually compete.

Nope, can't completely agree here. Aren't many people complaining that recent Lambos are too "tame" ? Than the latest McLaren is some kind "Sunday driver supercar" ? Again, where do you draw the line ? What about cars like Euro Hatches which are built to be as much economical as possible even if they have a "sporty" engine and chassis ? How do you qualify the "intent" ? Based on the marketing campaigns ? Pretty much all recent cars, including supercars are designed to be as green compliant as possible. Does this "intent" rule these cars out ?

And not even counting that, thing is all GT clones are based on the basic principle that all cars can compete in a racing event if prepped properly.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I agree. Except the Prius has one gear and is very uninteresting to drive. It has no character. The slower cars you refer to must be cars such as a toyota 2000gt or perhaps a citroen 2CV. Which I think are great cars with pedigree and history. I don't think creating a fake pedigree for a garbage car makes it exciting, or fun. Have you driven the Prius in GT5? I did.My girlfriend thought I was Hoovering the flat!!!!

Strictly speaking, the Prius has more of a racing pedigree than the Veyron:
The Rally Prius of POWAH!

I may be remembering wrong, but a racing transmission equips a real one in GT5, removing the CVT. Even with that, though, it at least still sounded like an internal combustion engine (well, PD's version of one) - the Mitsubishi iMIEV was a much more agonizing sound. I drove the Prius for one of the early seasonals and when mildly tuned, it's a pretty decent steer if I'm honest - looking past the "hybrid hate", it's torquey, and due to the narrow, efficiency-minded tires, it has fairly reasonable grip limits, unlike most over-rubbered modern cars. The cars I was talking about it taking down? Any of the starter hatches in FM4, but also the Scirocco S, the Alfa Spider, and the mkI GTI. It'll also run pretty close to the Escort.

 

[cuco33]

Mentioned already so I'll say it again.. Seems to keep getting overlooked every time I post this on any forum I'm on regarding this topic.

The Lambo Countach was an iconic car during that era, but being in GT4 we can see (somewhat) why it got the standard treatment. The Bugatti Veyron, an iconic car today, was modeled after GT4 and first introduced into the GT series on the PSP yet still made it's way as a standard into GT5. Instead, we got a Prius, a Sambabus, a Schimwagen, amongst other vehicles that should not get premium treatment over one of today's most iconic vehicles, the Veyron. It's why we constantly see the Veyron vs Prius being brought up in the standard vs premium discussion.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You had a different copy of GT4 than I did - the Countach's intro to the series was the same game as the Veyron's - PSP.

What is strange is the Jaguar XFR is the only Standard to not even appear in that game.

 

[cuco33]

You had a different copy of GT4 than I did - the Countach's intro to the series was the same game as the Veyron's - PSP.

What is strange is the Jaguar XFR is the only Standard to not even appear in that game.

I guess I was wrong on the Countach, and meant another car... for some reason I always thought the Countach was in GT4. I never finished GT4. That just adds even more to my statement... Veyron AND Countach, both iconic legends for their times, are still standards and made their ways new to the series in GT PSP.

As a big VW fan I'm really sad that the mk1 Rabbit GTI (amongst other VWs like the mk4 R32 and the Nardo Concept) got standard treatment and the Rabbit GTI was the original hot hatch that started the craze. We got Sambabus, Kubelwagen and Schimwagen though!

 

[HBK]

Instead, we got a Prius, a Sambabus, a Schimwagen, amongst other vehicles that should not get premium treatment over one of today's most iconic vehicles, the Veyron. It's why we constantly see the Veyron vs Prius being brought up in the standard vs premium discussion.

Well, the Prius is indeed an iconic car, just not in the same way as the Veyron. And yes, having the Veyron being Premium instead of the Prius would have made more sense to me. That doesn't mean it makes sense to bitch about the Prius vs. Veyron Premiumization. I'd rather bitch about the whole Premium vs. Standard debacle if you ask me ...

Man aren't we running in circles ?

 

[cuco33]

Well, the Prius is indeed an iconic car, just not in the same way as the Veyron. And yes, having the Veyron being Premium instead of the Prius would have made more sense to me. That doesn't mean it makes sense to bitch about the Prius vs. Veyron Premiumization. I'd rather bitch about the whole Premium vs. Standard debacle if you ask me ...

Man aren't we running in circles ?

To me, I hate the standard vs premium debacle. No other game has ever split content like this, in any genre, on any platform... And it's not just the quality of the car models as I'm not a graphics whore. It's the extra features that premium cars get which standards do not. Things like cockpit views missing (and now w/latest patch we got black silhouettes 🤬. I personally think the Veyron's interior is gorgeous and would have loved to see it in all premium glory). Things like no wheel upgrades (even though wheels are visual upgrade only) or being locked out of photo travel locations or having different effects in the rain (no wipers work for standards, no splash effects on the windshields of standards). And with the DLC, PD added a RaceMod for the Prius, which is another one of these 'brilliant' ideas of theirs

Since this is a vs thread and I think for the most part most here are level headed and can admit faults on both games.. I'll add a few more. I mentioned wheel upgrades on premiums only in GT5. Sadly wheel upgrades are visual only, you don't get to change the size of the rim, width of rim, nor the offset (offset is missing in Forza). If you put a non-OEM wheel pattern on a car in Forza, you don't get wheels which can push out the rims. Usually in real life you either change the car's hub, redrill the wheel itself, or have an adapter which would push the wheel out more. No spacers to poke wheels out more either but I guess this is why we don't have offset changes in Forza.
Also no tire pressure adjustments in GT5. No brake upgrades either. I'd prefer more tire options in Forza. The stock, street, sport, race, drag tires are nice options but a wheel manufacturer doesn't just make 1 type of sport tires. I'd like to have more tire options, to a degree like GT5 has 9 tire options for normal track surfaces. I also don't get why GT5's tire compounds (amongst other mods) don't affect PP at all. I'm not sure how PP is calculated. Not that Forza's PI system is perfect but it's much better in my book than GT5's PP system.

 

[HBK]

To me, I hate the standard vs premium debacle. No other game has ever split content like this, in any genre, on any platform... And it's not just the quality of the car models as I'm not a graphics whore. It's the extra features that premium cars get which standards do not.

Oh man, I'm with you on this one 👍

And with the DLC, PD added a RaceMod for the Prius, which is another one of these 'brilliant' ideas of theirs

lol, didn't notice that

Edit : The "tires not influencing PP" kinda makes sense in GT5's logic. Not that this logic isn't flawed mind you. But still, GT5 seems to treat tires more like some kind of "option" or "assist" than some real "car upgrade". Yeah I know, sounds weird, but that's how I understand it from how it's organized in the interface.