Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Luminis]

very true, it seems that these gt fanboys re very quick to point out what forza is lacking but defend gt to the hilt when it concerns its faults.

Just to point this out, I don't mind anyone defending GT5. It's just that it's annoying me that peopple aren't defending its flaws, but are excusing them. Nothing wrong with saying "I don't mind only having only 30 (or so) race modifiable cars out of 1050 cars, because [insert reason here]", if it's a somewhat understandable reason that's being presented.

But, I think that replies like "yeah, there are only 19 cars but PD tried sooo hard, so it's okay!" aren't cutting it. And neither is "they just did it for the fans" or "they said they wanted to do [something]".

I mean, I am sure that T10 and PD both are working hard, but why should that stop me from pointing out flaws? Why should that stop anyone? I just don't get it.

 

[cuco33]

Looking at PD's list of cars for GT5...
1000+ cars broken down into 80% 'ported' content with 20% being premium, padding lists up with duplicates via mostly livery changes, duplicates of same car model (all the Skylines, Miatas, Civics, etc), allowing race mods being counted as new cars, etc etc all ranging in consistency regarding quality of models and features.

Looking at T10's list of cars for FM4...
500+ cars, all retaining same level of quality, all have same features throughout, 90 new cars to the franchise, almost 100 FM3 DLC cars brought over to FM4, remaining are updated 'ports' or duplicates via race liveries.


You can do the exact same thing regarding tracks ('premium' like a Rome or Nurb vs 'standard' like Trial Mountain). Compare it to Forza and all tracks are modeled to the same quality.

Features as well like head tracking, damage, fuel consumption/tire wear (physics online/offline), photo travel, etc etc. Compare it to Forza and the only feature that isn't consistent is AutoVista mode.

Consistency, GT5 has none. And the loyalists will continue defending and deflecting any argument over it. BTW, I love GT5 and still play it to this day but it's not the GT5 that we thought would be. Press releases and demos showcased premium cars on 'premium' tracks, showcasing damage modeling, night shift, weather, head tracking, etc and they didn't mention the disparity or lack of consistency throughout the game. It is what it is... Hoping consistency is a prime target for GT6.

 

[DRIFT GOD]

i honestly cant believe jordan let you start this thread here, these comparison threads are a joke and one of the reasons i dont go to GTP anymore...

with that said here is my opinion:

i was a diehard gt fan and still own a modded ps2 and just about every gt game and demo from us and japan, i was an administrator at GTH and was personally involved in finding the hybrid codes before the mk program was released and even then worked with mika on testing codes for the mk program...

i completed every gt game up until gt4 (besides gt2 witch was bugged and you could only get to around 97%) i got about 45% through gt4 and FORZA came out, and i never played another gt game since...

 

[Scaff]

i honestly cant believe jordan let you start this thread here, these comparison threads are a joke and one of the reasons i dont go to GTP anymore...

Its a valid topic for discussion, and its discussions that are going to happen anyway (so they may as well be in one place) and perhaps most importantly it doesn't break the AUP.

Given such the counter would that no reason exists to remove or lock it, after all no one is forced to read it or contribute to it.


Scaff

 

[Wolfe]

i honestly cant believe jordan let you start this thread here, these comparison threads are a joke and one of the reasons i dont go to GTP anymore...

with that said here is my opinion:

Looking at PD's list of cars for GT5...
1000+ cars broken down into 80% 'ported' content with 20% being premium, padding lists up with duplicates via mostly livery changes, duplicates of same car model (all the Skylines, Miatas, Civics, etc), allowing race mods being counted as new cars, etc etc...

On GTP I had a thread where I whittled GT4's car list down from 750 to about half (~350), merging duplicates/rebadges, trim levels, and racecars that shared the same chassis or at least "identity" (eg. DTM cars) with roadcars also in the game.

I never made a GT5 list because it's even bigger and the game is such an easy target for ridicule already, but I'd expect similar results. FM4 might have more unique cars than GT5 does, particularly as new DLC piles up.

 

[Koenigseggfan]

I wouldn't think that the interior of a concept changes dramatically, or at all, seeing as the exterior didn't change all that much from ft86i concept to ft86ii concept.

To be honest , in all photos and videos I have seen of FT 86 II Concept , it always has a blacked out cockpit.

For example here is a video from 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show:

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Looking at T10's list of cars for FM4...
500+ cars, all retaining same level of quality, all have same features throughout, 90 new cars to the franchise, almost 100 FM3 DLC cars brought over to FM4, remaining are updated 'ports' or duplicates via race liveries.

I'll have to stop you there - comparing the 22B to say, the F10 M5, there's definitely a gap in quality. I wouldn't say all of FM4's cars are to the exact same level of quality, but they are all at least modelled to the same basic parameters: multi-piece models versus Standard cars outdates single-shape models, with painted on shut-lines.

On GTP I had a thread where I whittled GT4's car list down from 750 to about half (~350), merging duplicates/rebadges, trim levels, and racecars that shared the same chassis or at least "identity" (eg. DTM cars) with roadcars also in the game.

I never made a GT5 list because it's even bigger and the game is such an easy target for ridicule already, but I'd expect similar results. FM4 might have more unique cars than GT5 does, particularly as new DLC piles up.

I actually did one for GT5 when the official list first dropped, but foolishly deleted it a few months into the game. I wasn't quite as ruthless (I kept racing versions of cars separate from their road versions), but I believe I ended up with somewhere around 500-600. Take out 17 because of the RM's, however. Which really, show PD's new mindset - they never counted RM's in GT1 or GT2, and if they did... GT2 might actually have the largest car count of any GT.

 

[Wolfe]

I'll have to stop you there - comparing the 22B to say, the F10 M5, there's definitely a gap in quality. I wouldn't say all of FM4's cars are to the exact same level of quality, but they are all at least modelled to the same basic parameters: multi-piece models versus Standard cars outdates single-shape models, with painted on shut-lines.

I agree, I've recently become smitten with Subarus and the 22B's matte plasticky taillights bug me. It only seems to be under certain lighting, or maybe it's the difference between Homespace/photomode and gameplay. The majority of cars seem fine, but for another example I've noticed the R32 GT-R looks a little "wide-eyed." The aero choices on many cars seem to be of inconsistent quality too.

I am glad that they finally fixed the brake lights on the E30 M3, though. Driving it from the external view in FM3 gave me twitches every time.

I wasn't quite as ruthless (I kept racing versions of cars separate from their road versions), but I believe I ended up with somewhere around 500-600.

I figured from the perspective of most players, an Audi TT is an Audi TT, even if it's a V8 DTM car. But that fact makes your reduced count all the more significant.

 

[hennessey86]

i honestly cant believe jordan let you start this thread here, these comparison threads are a joke and one of the reasons i dont go to GTP anymore...

with that said here is my opinion:

i was a diehard gt fan and still own a modded ps2 and just about every gt game and demo from us and japan, i was an administrator at GTH and was personally involved in finding the hybrid codes before the mk program was released and even then worked with mika on testing codes for the mk program...

i completed every gt game up until gt4 (besides gt2 witch was bugged and you could only get to around 97%) i got about 45% through gt4 and FORZA came out, and i never played another gt game since...

Don't know if you have read the comparison but none of it is trolling, it is my personal opinion. There will always be fanboys who enter these threads but most of the poeple who have participated in this discusion have been very mature

 

[GT6mebe]

I wouldn't think that the interior of a concept changes dramatically, or at all, seeing as the exterior didn't change all that much from ft86i concept to ft86ii concept. Now we have another inconsistency.

Premium cars w/premium interiors
Premium car w/blacked out standard interior
Standard car w/blacked out standard interior
Standard car w/low quality modeled interior, i.e. open cockpit vehicles

I'm not buying 2x DLC just to get a concept car in GT5 but I wonder if this has working wipers w/'premium' windshield splash effects or if it resorts to the standard method of no wipers and no 'premium' windshield splash effects?

🤬 How long does it take you to figure out that there was no interior modelled. Stop making useless assumptions saying, oh.... well maybe the interior did not change from the first concept No there was no interior designed in the first place ( 2 concept). Period. Not inconsistency, its realistic as in the concept in real life has NO COCKPIT.

 

[VXR]

it would be nice if for the next forza they update cars such as the 22B with their obviously older exteriors that clash with the higher-quality interiors to new models equal to current DLC cars at least, because carry-overs from FM1 such as the risible, square 92 NSXR will look even worse than they do now.

 

[Luminis]

Not inconsistency, its realistic as in the concept in real life has NO COCKPIT.

Realistic? It's realistic to drive a car that has NO COCKPIT? How do you even do that?

I figured from the perspective of most players, an Audi TT is an Audi TT, even if it's a V8 DTM car. But that fact makes your reduced count all the more significant.

In my opinion, it would be best to merge cars that are almost identical, exterior wise. Because that's what's saving them a lot of time and work, really.

That's why I'd count the Skyline R34 GT-R, GT-R V-Spec, V-Spec II, V-Spec II Nür, M-Spec and Z-Tune as a single car. There are some noticible technical differences there, but they're all very similar, as far as the modelling goes.

 

[Wolfe]

Not inconsistency, its realistic as in the concept in real life has NO COCKPIT.

If it realistically portrays the concept as in real life, why doesn't it tint your view of the track and surroundings? Everything should be darkened.

In my opinion, it would be best to merge cars that are almost identical, exterior wise. Because that's what's saving them a lot of time and work, really.

That's why I'd count the Skyline R34 GT-R, GT-R V-Spec, V-Spec II, V-Spec II Nür, M-Spec and Z-Tune as a single car. There are some noticible technical differences there, but they're all very similar, as far as the modelling goes.

That was pretty much my line of thought.

To be fair, I have no problem with practice of duplication, as long as it's done reasonably and not just to bold and underline "A bajillion cars!!!" on the back of the box. But separate model years for almost nothing but different (authentic) paint options or bumpers? C'mon.

I'd appreciate it if FM4 had standard 3-series/5-series models along with each ///M, or the 25-GT/GTS-25 versions of the Nissan Skylines. Like you said, not much modelling work there. I've already RWD-ified my R32 GT-R anyway (RWD with an 800hp RB26 is grin-inducing ), so at least we have the swap feature.

 

[I'm Motarded]

it would be nice if for the next forza they update cars such as the 22B with their obviously older exteriors that clash with the higher-quality interiors to new models equal to current DLC cars at least, because carry-overs from FM1 such as the risible, square 92 NSXR will look even worse than they do now.

I think they are slowly phasing those cars out, starting with a lot of the tuner and less popular cars there once were. Quite a few of the cars from fm1/fm2 have gone AWOL and some cars from fm3 had minor year changes which I presume have been re-modeled along with it.

Can't be too many left now. fm1 only had 230 cars
http://www.forzastudios.com/features/cars/

 

[zr1chris]

///M

 

[Luminis]

To be fair, I have no problem with practice of duplication, as long as it's done reasonably and not just to bold and underline "A bajillion cars!!!" on the back of the box. But separate model years for almost nothing but different (authentic) paint options or bumpers? C'mon.

GT6 will release with more than 2000 premium cars. The car list will go like this:

• Alfa Romeo Mito, black
• Alfa Romeo Mito, blue
• Alfa Romeo Mito, green
• Alfa Romeo Mito, red
• Alfa Romeo Mito, silver
• Alfa Romeo Mito, white
• Alfa Romeo Mito, yellow

 

[Imari]

GT6 will release with more than 2000 premium cars. The car list will go like this:

• Alfa Romeo Mito, black
• Alfa Romeo Mito, blue
• Alfa Romeo Mito, green
• Alfa Romeo Mito, red
• Alfa Romeo Mito, silver
• Alfa Romeo Mito, white
• Alfa Romeo Mito, yellow

To be fair, they're halfway there already with Ford GT '05 and Ford GT '05 No Stripe...

That would have taken them, what? 5 minutes in Photoshop changing the textures?

 

[GT6mebe]

To be fair, they're halfway there already with Ford GT '05 and Ford GT '05 No Stripe...

That would have taken them, what? 5 minutes in Photoshop changing the textures?

True, but they are essentially different cars. Maybe if you had the game you would know the the Ford Gt no stripe is quite a bit faster than the one with a stripe.

 

[Luminis]

True, but they are essentially different cars. Maybe if you had the game you would know the the Ford Gt no stripe is quite a bit faster than the one with a stripe.

It's exactly what we've been talking about: Take the same model, change the colour and all the modelling is done. It's a very easy way to push the car count of a game through the roof.

Increasing the horsepower of one of the cars, or reducing the drack coefficient or whatever doesn't change a thing about that. The GT-R V-Spec and V-Spec II aren't equally fast, either, but the point is still true: They absolutely look the same, so PD saves a huge load of time by including these cars as "different models". And the Ford GT/GT No Stripe is the epitome of that.

 

[X-Power]

the Ford Gt no stripe is quite a bit faster than the one with a stripe.

In which case, one of them is inaccurate.

 

[Imari]

True, but they are essentially different cars. Maybe if you had the game you would know the the Ford Gt no stripe is quite a bit faster than the one with a stripe.

I have the game. I don't have all 1000 cars. Excuse me for not having personal experience with every single car.

If I recall, I bought the normal one because it showed up in the UCD first, and then didn't buy the no stripe when it showed up because it seemed pointless when I already had a Ford GT...

And I agree with the posters above. If they're different performance-wise, it's a fault. They should be mechanically the same car. To my knowledge, there was only ever one official spec of the roadgoing GT.

 

[Leicht]

I switch on my PS3 to play GT5 today...after almost 2 months not playing...I haven't update it yet, still in the 2.0...I went to the Nurb with F430 and I notice is that I can't really tell whether the tyres (sports medium) are losing the grip unlike in FM4... I'm using controller btw and all aids are off..

 

[slick1ru2]

In a year from now, will Turn 10 have added more than just cars or perhaps some tracks via DLC? Will they have added significant new content, features, content and game modes while upgrading and improving the game for free? Time will tell.

 

[zr1chris]

In a year from now, will Turn 10 have added more than just cars or perhaps some tracks via DLC? Will they have added significant new content, features, content and game modes while upgrading and improving the game for free? Time will tell.

Given what has happened with FM2 and FM3 it will only be cars and tracks for DLC this time around as well.

 

[slick1ru2]

Given what has happened with FM2 and FM3 it will only be cars and tracks for DLC this time around as well.

They probably will be coming out with another version in a couple of years. I guess because PD felt they had shipped an incomplete product, they owed it to its fans. Even so, I know of no other game that has put out as many improvement and features and over such a long time.

 

[zr1chris]

I know of no other game that has put out as many improvement and features and over such a long time.

I don't think they had much of a choice. GT5 at release was not what most people expected. True expectations were higher than any other racing sim on consoles ever. Although it still had it's moments where it shined it still left me feeling majorly disappointed at release and even now still a little. What the game is now is simply what it should have been at release imho and even now it still leaves a little to be desired. It still needs leaderboards and a much better A-Spec. Better tire physics would be a plus also but I might have just been spoiled by FM4.

 

[Vaxxtx]

They probably will be coming out with another version in a couple of years. I guess because PD felt they had shipped an incomplete product, they owed it to its fans. Even so, I know of no other game that has put out as many improvement and features and over such a long time.

I still dont applaud PD for updating GT5. It should have been done in the first place. Its not like the game delivered on everything talked about, and fully fleshed out in any area.

So imo, PD should be updating. Sadly, time has come and gone and many are moving on to bigger and better things, such as FM4.

Do I think FM4 will add updates? Not sure, but see...they are not needed. Everything talked about has been in game. The one thing "simulation steering" was not. It got fixed rather quickly.

So people bragging about new updates for GT5 are forgetting why they are happening. Because GT5 needs them since it was so jacked up. Also have you not noticed the major update and DLC started at FM4's release date?

 

[yakapo]

I really liked the comparison. I've got GT5 prologue (which I loved), GT5, and Forza 4. I've had the G27 and I own the MS FF wheel and the Fanatec GT2. I've been playing racing games for a long time. Does anyone remember Racing Destruction Set for the C64? I loved viper racing for the pc and GTR2.

I might be alone regarding this but the most important things to me are physics and sound. Forza 4 is in a different class than GT5 in regards to sound. However Forza still has room to grow. I want the cars to sound like they do in the autovista mode (when you start the car). I would rather have 5 cars emulated to perfection than 500 crappy cars.

 

[GT6mebe]

I really liked the comparison. I've got GT5 prologue (which I loved), GT5, and Forza 4. I've had the G27 and I own the MS FF wheel and the Fanatec GT2. I've been playing racing games for a long time. Does anyone remember Racing Destruction Set for the C64? I loved viper racing for the pc and GTR2.

I might be alone regarding this but the most important things to me are physics and sound. Forza 4 is in a different class than GT5 in regards to sound. However Forza still has room to grow. I want the cars to sound like they do in the autovista mode (when you start the car). I would rather have 5 cars emulated to perfection than 500 crappy cars.

Forza sounds are very far from perfection. In fact they are largely exaggerated and over emphasized much like Shift 2' sounds but not to that large of an extent lol.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

I really liked the comparison. I've got GT5 prologue (which I loved), GT5, and Forza 4. I've had the G27 and I own the MS FF wheel and the Fanatec GT2. I've been playing racing games for a long time. Does anyone remember Racing Destruction Set for the C64? I loved viper racing for the pc and GTR2.

I might be alone regarding this but the most important things to me are physics and sound. Forza 4 is in a different class than GT5 in regards to sound. However Forza still has room to grow. I want the cars to sound like they do in the autovista mode (when you start the car). I would rather have 5 cars emulated to perfection than 500 crappy cars.

No, your not alone Viper Racing was cool, as was Papyrus NASCAR games, Sports Car GT, Grand Prix Legends, ... GT drew me to the consoles early on but Forza now.