- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
I talked about race pro.
Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)
- Thread starter hennessey86
- 2,850 comments
- 183,653 views
I talked about race pro.
- 1,471
- hennessey_86 and GTP_evox
- hennessey861
Add me on xboxlive, not many people play it anymore:tup:👍👍
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
Sure 👍
Killer46
(Banned)
- 414
When I'm racing normally, in same class cars, I am generally several seconds ahead of "professional" A.I. I was really hoping pre-release when T10 was spouting that BS about dynamic A.I and "professional" A.I that it was going to be better than FM3 but it turned out "professional" was every bit as easy as FM3s A.I if not even slower.
That said, when you're in a pack of A.I, fighting for position, the A.I is phenomenal. Had many occasions where I've gone 3 wide into a corner with A.I and had absolutely no rubbing or contact of any kind and I've been side by side with the same A.I 3-4 corners.
People simply do not understand that the A.I races like you do, it learns from you. If you're careless or you deliberately ram the A.I, they will hit you back. Race clean, the A.I races clean.
That said, when you're in a pack of A.I, fighting for position, the A.I is phenomenal. Had many occasions where I've gone 3 wide into a corner with A.I and had absolutely no rubbing or contact of any kind and I've been side by side with the same A.I 3-4 corners.
People simply do not understand that the A.I races like you do, it learns from you. If you're careless or you deliberately ram the A.I, they will hit you back. Race clean, the A.I races clean.
- 2,414
I could be imaging this but you don't even have to touch them to piss them off. Seems like if you make a move that makes the AI (depending on which one) have to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting you he'll let you know at some other point, and usually you don't have to wait long for that other point.
- 672
- Toulouse
- TheHBK
- HBK Live
Yeah, I wish they were a little bit less aggressive. They have a tendency to fight for their position "as long as they're in their right", which would be a good thing if it wasn't so much "no matter the cost". What I mean is that they won't let the player pass them as long they are "in their right" ... even if the player is way faster and if keeping their line means that the player either have to go off-road, or brake hard. Very, very hard.
Forza 2 AI had a tendency to let the player pass a bit too easily, they would rarely hesitate to move out of their line to let the player pass, which was a bit unrealistic.
Now it just have a tendency to drive like the average online driver, never giving up unless you can make some super clean pass.
- 2,414
Funny thing is even as we're typing this I can't help but think about a race I was watching a few weeks ago in the Perrilli World Challenge where two "teammates" for Kia were battling for 1st place. The team had 1st and 2nd completely locked down and yet wiped themselves out on the LAST turn of the LAST lap having to settle for 2nd and 3rd and completely taking out some poor soul who couldn't even move after the event. All I kept saying was "I wonder which one was Rossi"
- 674
- M.I.A
He's not always red now is he? Talk about lottery lol
Actually, the simple fact that many Forza players know who the infamous M.Rossi is acknowledges some merits about Forza's approach regarding AI.
He even has his own twitter so he can talk 🤬 back
https://twitter.com/#!/Forza_MRossi
Anyone who buys GT5 or FM4 just for a racing is going to be disapointed. Like when people critisize the games for not having official race series. Its not about that.
I like FM4 and GT5 for what they are.
Sandbox driving game sums it up nicely. Hell in GT5 defense they even go so far as to call it a 'real DRIVING simulator' its not GT5 racing or Forza racepro is it?
So yeah its fictional racing but for what it is its bareable and the AI isnt that bad in fact far from it.
But again in answer to the 'races' if you have stock races you can have say an AI car at the bottom at say e.g. A class A502 then your car at say A598 PI then really any compitent console driver should clearly be beating that car. So maybe you may have to keep your car stock but then allow AI to upgrade to get a 'race' so what?
I like FM4 and GT5 for what they are.
Sandbox driving game sums it up nicely. Hell in GT5 defense they even go so far as to call it a 'real DRIVING simulator' its not GT5 racing or Forza racepro is it?
So yeah its fictional racing but for what it is its bareable and the AI isnt that bad in fact far from it.
But again in answer to the 'races' if you have stock races you can have say an AI car at the bottom at say e.g. A class A502 then your car at say A598 PI then really any compitent console driver should clearly be beating that car. So maybe you may have to keep your car stock but then allow AI to upgrade to get a 'race' so what?
- 5,761
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
- 1,732
- cuco33
Both Forza and GT are racing games. You race in them.
Sandbox means open world which neither Forza nor GT are. You can say that they are driving games but that's what racing is, driving as fast as you can to win.
PD also dubbed GT5 as being 'the standard' and last I checked 'the standard' doesn't do tire pressure adjustments nor has torque steer or roll overs, and has varying physics online vs offline!! There's nothing 'standard' about differences in physics depending on the mode you are in!!! Also nothing 'standard' by having disparity in quality and features depending on the car (or track) you are in. In other words, just more in lines of the same ol' PR marketing speak to hype up the product. Some people take it for what it is while others hold death grips over it. Remember how bad the Sony/GT folk went over FM3's 'definitive' talk? lol
Sandbox means open world which neither Forza nor GT are. You can say that they are driving games but that's what racing is, driving as fast as you can to win.
PD also dubbed GT5 as being 'the standard' and last I checked 'the standard' doesn't do tire pressure adjustments nor has torque steer or roll overs, and has varying physics online vs offline!! There's nothing 'standard' about differences in physics depending on the mode you are in!!! Also nothing 'standard' by having disparity in quality and features depending on the car (or track) you are in. In other words, just more in lines of the same ol' PR marketing speak to hype up the product. Some people take it for what it is while others hold death grips over it. Remember how bad the Sony/GT folk went over FM3's 'definitive' talk? lol
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
The fact of the matter is GT5 and Forza 4 are not built around the premise of being racing games. Any idiot can see that. If they were supposed to be racing games than they are both terrible games.
The point of these sandbox driving games (which they most definitely are) is to have multiple cars, upgrades, paints, tracks, etc. open for the player to do whatever they want with. And as sandbox games, they both succeed.
- 1,732
- cuco33
But they are. You race in specified events in both games. You don't drive virtually to the corner store to get milk. You compete digitally against AI or people in a race.
You might hold a higher level of what these games are but they are racing games. 'Any idiot can see that'.
To that extent, they are sandbox racing games but sandbox also means open world. TDU is more of a sandbox racer where you drive around in an open world. GTA and Saints Row are sandbox games where you are able to roam around a world and do what you please as if you were a kid in a sandbox playing. But both GT and Forza are racing games. What you do in both is race.
- 1,732
- cuco33
That's fine and dandy and all but GT and Forza are racing games.
The most hardcore racing sims you drift, hot lap, 'take pics', paint, etc as well.
It's a dumb argument anyways and not one I want to go more towards it. I am always baffled by the GT folk who go on about how GT is this driving simulator, especially since PD dubbed it 'the real driving simulator' on the box. What you do to earn credits and xp in the game is race. They are racing games.
The most hardcore racing sims you drift, hot lap, 'take pics', paint, etc as well.
It's a dumb argument anyways and not one I want to go more towards it. I am always baffled by the GT folk who go on about how GT is this driving simulator, especially since PD dubbed it 'the real driving simulator' on the box. What you do to earn credits and xp in the game is race. They are racing games.
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
- 2,414
I don't know about that. If the game wasn't built around racing why is it the first thing you do when you start up the game?
- 672
- Toulouse
- TheHBK
- HBK Live
Maybe because driving an Audi R8 or a 458 Italia is more appealing than being shown a bunch of econoboxes from which you need to choose in order to start your careerI don't know about that. If the game wasn't built around racing why is it the first thing you do when you start up the game?
Edit : Or being shown a white canvas for you to paint
UKMikey
Premium
- 18,159
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
Ha ha, this is genius. I think I just found my sig quote, thank you Motarded.
- 674
- M.I.A
lol no problem Mikey
The only thing stopping Forza from becoming a true racing sim, in the term that most seem to hold it to, is the low fuel consumption, slow tire wear (on anything but Drag tires), and pit stop options. Everything else can be user created.
What else is it missing?
The only thing stopping Forza from becoming a true racing sim, in the term that most seem to hold it to, is the low fuel consumption, slow tire wear (on anything but Drag tires), and pit stop options. Everything else can be user created.
What else is it missing?
i'll be the judge on whether its a dumb argument thanks.
No way are GT5 and Forza just racing games. If i explained them to an alien i wouldnt say "they are racing games". I would call RacePro and Shift 2 as racing games as they have actual race series and rules etc etc.
i would call FM and GT driving games........
thats not a bad thing, its what i love about them, i have as much fun pretending to be the stig around top gear track as i do 'racing' online. But to call them a pure racing game would be to play it and enter a race where you are in a Ferrari GT racing car and you are racing against a V8 oz supercar and a NASCAR....that would be ridiculas in real life!!!
one of the things that i forgave shift 2 faults for was its racing approach, like old ToCA games.......
II-zOoLoGy-II
(Banned)
- 2,713
- F YOU
People throwing around the term "sand box" as if they actually understand what the term means.
Forza and GT are realistic racing games. They are not sim-racing games. That area belongs to sims such as iRacing.
Forza and GT are most certainly not "sandbox" games. And I suggest you look up the meaning of the term; especially when referring to a game which has a starting line and a finish line 3 laps later.
Forza and GT are realistic racing games. They are not sim-racing games. That area belongs to sims such as iRacing.
Forza and GT are most certainly not "sandbox" games. And I suggest you look up the meaning of the term; especially when referring to a game which has a starting line and a finish line 3 laps later.
- 672
- Toulouse
- TheHBK
- HBK Live
Oh man :
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sandbox
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sandbox_game
-> A video game with no linear storyline or specific goal, the player deriving amusement from a range of open-ended interactions or situations.
Actually, this fits the description of Forza and GT very well.
Sandbox != Open-world
Edit : Bonus track : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world
-> The term is sometimes used interchangeably with "sandbox" and "free-roaming"; however, the terms open world and free-roaming describe the game environment itself and allude more to the absence of artificial barriers, in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way" of playing the game.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sandbox
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sandbox_game
-> A video game with no linear storyline or specific goal, the player deriving amusement from a range of open-ended interactions or situations.
Actually, this fits the description of Forza and GT very well.
Sandbox != Open-world
Edit : Bonus track : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world
-> The term is sometimes used interchangeably with "sandbox" and "free-roaming"; however, the terms open world and free-roaming describe the game environment itself and allude more to the absence of artificial barriers, in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way" of playing the game.
II-zOoLoGy-II
(Banned)
- 2,713
- F YOU
So requiring a player to reach a certain level with a restriction in car (make/model), class (pp/pi), drivetrain, etc etc but allowing them to choose what event to race makes it a sandbox? Lol. Riiiight. Neither game allows you to race out of specified restrictions. GT5 has even less leniency in this department.
Based on your interpreted definition of sandbox I could incorretly classify practically every racing game as sandbox.
Wiki definitions.... Always entertaining.
Based on your interpreted definition of sandbox I could incorretly classify practically every racing game as sandbox.
Wiki definitions.... Always entertaining.
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
Just curious. Sticking to the console scene here, have you ever played Race Pro? Well, assuming you haven't, I'll give a rundown on how it works. Basically, you start the game off only being able to drive 1 car. Just 1. You can practice, time trial, or race it. In order to get any more cars, you have to use it to advance through the career mode to unlock more cars. There is no painting, or upgrades, or liveries, or challenges, or bowling or hippie vans, or comedy cars or any of that nonsense. You get in a car, practice with it, qualify with it, and then race it. That's all.
You can keep yapping about the 'true definition' of sandbox, and using the correct dictionary or whatever, but the fact of the matter is GT5 and FM4 give you many more choices, options, and things to do than a true 'racing' sim, and are missing many key features to be a true 'racing' sim. Therefore we can logically assume that:
A) They were both terribly made racing games. No one at PD or T10 has ever watched any kind of race in their entire lives, and no one managed to think:
Hmmm... Well in real life, they don't race street cars... They have practice and qualifying.... They have tire wear and pit stops...
or
B) They didn't design GT5 and FM4 to be 'racing' games. They wanted to give the players choice in what they wanted to do, and make it more readily playable by the masses. Which is why they included stuff like ridiculous cars, racing stock road cars, and strange challenges like bowling.
Which scenario seems more likely to you?
And, as a final point, have you seen the "Endangered species" trailer for FM4?
Here is a transcript of the last half of it.
"And yet, there is hope. There is a safe haven. A place, where we are free to challenge conventions, push the laws of physics, and drive our powerful, our beautiful machines. Hard. It's not a racetrack in Germany, or even a highway in Montana. It's not even a real place actually, it's more than that. It's a communal celebration of horsepower, torque, grip, leather, technology, beauty. It is the last bastion of automotive lust. And it's right there, in your living room. Where dreams are driven. Forza Motorsport 4."
That right there shows the true theme of the game. And it's not hardcore racing. It a game with a love for cars and driving them. Of course it gives you the option to race them, because that's one of the many things you can do with cars.
- 55
But Forza 4 has a custom event creator (if you make your own private lobby, with or without human opponents)!
In that case, you are not restricted by the restrictions of the world tour, the event list and the arcade mode. Instead, you have every car , track and (almost) every rule of the game at your disposal at that mode, plus the ability to create your own custom racing series ( tournamets ).
Also if you chose to make a race in that mode, with only AI opponents , you can choose whatever car you want for each AI opponent , regardless of car class (for example you can make if you want, a race with 2 F class cars against 2 E class cars, 2 D class cars, 2 C class cars, 2 B class cars etc, just for the fun of it), and for their AI drivers you can choose whatever difficulty level you want (so you can make a race with AI opponents varied from easy level to professional level)!
In my opinion, this can be classified, as some kind of "sandbox mode". The only restriction you have in that mode is your imagination!
- 5,761
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
I just want to ask a question.
If GT and Forza aren't racing games, why is racing, since the start of both series, the primary gateway to earn money so you can buy the cars you want and be able to do all of these other things with them like customizing, tuning, taking photos, etc?
If GT and Forza aren't racing games, why is racing, since the start of both series, the primary gateway to earn money so you can buy the cars you want and be able to do all of these other things with them like customizing, tuning, taking photos, etc?
They are games with RACING in them, but not RACING games per se...theres a difference. Kaz set out to make a driving simulator (whether thats a slogan or something he achieved isnt the argument here), not a racing simulator. Turn 10 set out to make their own GT series in Forza following same lines as Kaz.
Yes theres race tracks and a basic 'game' involving win make money buy car win more etc etc but that isnt the whole of the game. Its not critisizing the games just separating them from RacePro or F1 2011 etc etc...
For example GT5 wouldnt be called a rally game, yet theres rally in it, so just cause theres racing in forza, doesnt mean it is classed as a racing game.
