Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[MikeKlim]

They are games with RACING in them, but not RACING games per se...theres a difference. Kaz set out to make a driving simulator (whether thats a slogan or something he achieved isnt the argument here), not a racing simulator. Turn 10 set out to make their own GT series in Forza following same lines as Kaz.

Yes theres race tracks and a basic 'game' involving win make money buy car win more etc etc but that isnt the whole of the game. Its not critisizing the games just separating them from RacePro or F1 2011 etc etc...

For example GT5 wouldnt be called a rally game, yet theres rally in it, so just cause theres racing in forza, doesnt mean it is classed as a racing game.

+1. At various times both Poly and Turn 10 have been forthright about the fact that a racing game was not their focus nor intent; rather, the games were made as a celebration of the cars themselves, the experience, aesthetics, handling, etc. 'Racing' may be one of many things one can do in the games to that end, but it's merely one of many contexts, not emphasis.

 

[HBK]

I just want to ask a question.

If GT and Forza aren't racing games, why is racing, since the start of both series, the primary gateway to earn money so you can buy the cars you want and be able to do all of these other things with them like customizing, tuning, taking photos, etc?

In most RPGs, combat is the primary gateway to earn money and xp. Yet they are called "role-playing games" and what most people recall of these games are the adventure. Not the fighting they've been doing 90% of the time.

Also, since Forza 3 and the introduction of the storefront, there are quite a number of ways to earn money besides "racing" in Forza.

 

[artboy76]

Its also something that both GT and FM have achieved IMO as i can happily just drive around hotlapping because the driving part is just so right. If i'd purchased it to just race i'd honestly be disapointed, thats my point. People actually on other forums will try to compare say F1 2011 to forza, or racepro, its like comparing Call of duty to GTA just cause both have guns in them..........

Also had EA with Shift instead of trying to pick a fight with GT and FM just marketed Shift 2 as a pure racing experience more people would of seen how close that game was to being the most pure racing game on console since ToCA back on PS1!! IMO.
But instead everyone compared its paint shop and photo taking to Forza and GT5 and forgot about how much better it was at the racing part and the fact it had much better track selection......

I'm glad we have forza and GT, but i'm also glad i can if i want grab a game that 'just' does F1 season.

 

[I'm Motarded]

There are people out there how have only raced just enough to earn their 1st million credits, after that all their time is spent in the auction house flipping cars to make millions to buy limited edition paint jobs and cars, what is this game to them?

There painters who only enter online lobbies with other painters strictly to show off their works and cruise around slowly and socialize, some of these guys have no interest in racing, only cars and art. what is them game to them?

In forza 1 there was an online mode which sole purpose was for these painters and buyers to discuss buying/selling cars and look at the cars on offer. That says to me that forza was about more than 'just racing' from the very start.

 

[rocketcaron]

This thread is borderline off topic now but: FM=sandbox. Its a sandbox racing game...

 

[imported_JJ72]

I just want to ask a question.

If GT and Forza aren't racing games, why is racing, since the start of both series, the primary gateway to earn money so you can buy the cars you want and be able to do all of these other things with them like customizing, tuning, taking photos, etc?

Since Forza 4 though the prime gateway is rivals mode, so as much as the debate seems silly....actually Forza is moving more and more towards just being a car game rather than an outright racing game.

But when 95% of the career mode is racing, Forza is still very much a racing game and there's no excuse when it isn't executed properly in that regard.

 

[artboy76]

Since Forza 4 though the prime gateway is rivals mode, so as much as the debate seems silly....actually Forza is moving more and more towards just being a car game rather than an outright racing game.

But when 95% of the career mode is racing, Forza is still very much a racing game and there's no excuse when it isn't executed properly in that regard.

What do you mean by 'executed properly' ????

All seems in order to me for this genre of driving game............ what more do you expect? Do tell.

 

[sennafreak]

For me FM4 has more than surpassed GT5 and PD have a lot of work to do if they wish to retain me as a customer for GT6 (and Sony in turn with regard to the PS4).

The GT series, which I have bought every version on the day of release and was the reason I bought a PS2 and a PS3, and to be honest GT5 looked as if all was heading in the right direction. The final product however fell short of what I had expected and while the updates have done a lot to turn that around, they still have not done enough.

In contrast FM1 to FM3 were late purchases for me and while enjoyable were not a reason to look away from GT. The mess that is GT5 and the final product that is FM4 was enough for me to find a new home. Its odd as well given that I can ignore a lot of the issues with GT5, standards don't bother me that much, rubbish menus and AI have always been a GT staple. However the lack of development in regard to the tyre and suspension modelling, combined with the failure to lock the frame rate (and the frame rate issues with night and rain) and the mess that tuning has become are just not good enough. Oh and don't even get me started as to why the physics are different on and off time.

In contrast the work T10 have done with the physics in FM4 moved things on a long way from FM3, while adding in a bigger grid on and off-line and locking the frame rate at 60fps. A better selection of cars (for me) with a wider range of parts and greater adjustments within tuning (and tuning that actually worked from the word go).

As things stand now the only area I personally see GT5 being ahead in is simply sales numbers, a situation that I believe has caused them to loose focus on what for many is vital to a sim title. As it stands now the have already effectively lost one customer and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Same here, i'm really close to buying an Xbox and Forza 4 at the moment, which feels a little like a divorce as i've been playing GT since 97', but i've had it with PD.

Just subscribed on the forum here and the first thing that struck me was the news section. The cars you Forza boys are getting on a monthly basis just remind me of a wet dream . The news section on our beloved sister forum mostly consists in what the GT academy graduates are eating for breakfast today... No feedback from PD whatsoever on what is in the pipeline just a long ackward silence until they see fit to break it themselves.

But apart from that the AI is my biggest reason for switching camps; I have to read some more to see if the raceformat is at least better than the one in GT (AKA chase the damned fleeing rabbit ...), but as long as the Forza bots take their lines faster through corners, and don't perform grandmother braking before entering turns like in GT, i will be happy.

And i'm sure the AI doesn't back off and surrender when passed neither in Forza, which is horribly annoying in PD's installment.

I want to switch over for 1: those points that i mentioned, and 2: to teach PD a lesson, as you can't ignore your loyal customers for years on their feedback, and expect them to stay loyal.

 

[Spagetti69]

Welcome mister.

It's not as lively here members wise. Mostly because of FM net.
I'm almost jealous if someone's first time to the game/Franchise. It will blow your socks off.

A good complaint is that there is too much to do is this game. Not enough hours in the day.

 

[katpeeler]

Hate to tell you Mister but the Forza bots do slow down to a halt in corners.....but they are easy to pass if you know this......Always outbreak......Welcome BTW

 

[t.o.]

But apart from that the AI is my biggest reason for switching camps; I have to read some more to see if the raceformat is at least better than the one in GT (AKA chase the damned fleeing rabbit ...), but as long as the Forza bots take their lines faster through corners, and don't perform grandmother braking before entering turns like in GT, i will be happy.

And i'm sure the AI doesn't back off and surrender when passed neither in Forza, which is horribly annoying in PD's installment.

Hate to tell you Mister but the Forza bots do slow down to a halt in corners.....but they are easy to pass if you know this......Always outbreak......Welcome BTW

Mister what Katpeeler says is true but it's not entirely true. For whatever ryhme or reason you get races where they really get at it. They keep decent speed in turns then you get races where they do slow way down having you scratch your head why?

One thing I meant to do and forgot was to keep a log of the races (in the event list) that us racers would really enjoy and races to avoid.

This thread is borderline off topic now but: FM=sandbox racing. Its a sandbox racing game...

So so so true.

 

[t.o.]

delete me

 

[sennafreak]

Thanks for the warm welcome 👍

So if i get it right, the AI is on it some races giving you a good run for your money, and in other races they suffer from the GT syndrome? Is this random or does it really depend on which race you select (as you mentioned keeping a log t.o.).

Also how's the race format? Also no qualifying and always starting from the same place on the grid? Do races feel as "chase the rabbit" races? And are the AI bots nicely grouped in distance from eachother, or is there always one at the front (the rabbit), that drives away from the start?

And last but not least i hope there's 50/50 fixed starts, and not all rolling starts like in GT?

Thanks in advance for the info, it will give me a good impression

 

[katpeeler]

M. Rossi is the man you will be chasing. And I guees it matters what level of difficutly you put the game on is how the bots play against you. But as far as whe t.o. was talking about keeping a log Im kinda lost. The event list are broken up in classes but they seem the same to me as far as AI.

I realy dont think there is ANY rolling starts in Forza...if there is I havent found them

Also where alot of people spend there time is in Rivals mode where you race "ghosts" either from friends list, club or just regular leaderboards. But this does require Xbox Live subscription.....

 

[Goshin2568]

Rivals can be done with a xbox live silver account, which is free.


EDIT: And fyi, Rivals mode is absolutely fantastic, mister dog, in case you were wondering.

 

[SA]

Regarding the AI in Forza, just make sure you don't spin out, because if you do, every car behind you will slam you until you are out of their way. Of course you have the "rewind" option if you want to avoid the gang-bang (or just drive better than me )

 

[ImaRobot]

I love gangbangs though.

 

[SA]

haha, getting banged once or twice is fine, but any more you just feel used and abused, like trash..and it makes you want to cry.

 

[ImaRobot]

Finally someone understands

 

[HBK]

So if i get it right, the AI is on it some races giving you a good run for your money, and in other races they suffer from the GT syndrome? Is this random or does it really depend on which race you select (as you mentioned keeping a log t.o.).

At the highest difficulty setting, they will race to the best of their ability. Whether they will give you a challenge is up to your driving ability. A skilled driver should have little difficulty beating them, unfortunately.

Also how's the race format? Also no qualifying and always starting from the same place on the grid? Do races feel as "chase the rabbit" races? And are the AI bots nicely grouped in distance from eachother, or is there always one at the front (the rabbit), that drives away from the start?

Most of the races will put you at the middle of the pack. No qualifying. "3 2 1 go" arcade racing, mostly (the game offers other ... distractions, shall I say, besides racing). The AI tend to race in pack. Most of the time, the leader will not be alone. He'll be messin' with at least another AI fighting for the lead. Still, sometimes, he's alone. He won't run like a rabbit, however. The AI doesn't cheat, not in a obvious way at least. If you can't catch up with the leader, you either don't drive fast enough, or your car isn't competitive for the track. Even if the PI system is pretty damn effective, it's still an averaging of the car performance and even with similar PI some cars will be more competitive on short winding tracks and other cars will be more competitive on ovals or very fast tracks like Le Mans.

And last but not least i hope there's 50/50 fixed starts, and not all rolling starts like in GT?

No rolling starts in Forza (maybe feasible in multiplayer, as there is a crapload of options, but I doubt it).

 

[430_Riviera]

Games such as GT5 and (in a way to a larger extent) Forza are defined by what you do in them.

The difficulty is that defining a genre bending game is a case of constantly moving goal posts. You say it's a racing game, but then you have people who only make liveries or take pictures. To them what is it? An automotive version of photoshop? I've seen pictures purely of landscapes, no car in sight. What about those who mainly chose to occupy events such as tag and Football? It can hardly be called racing, really.

I guess I would use the term 'automotive sandbox', where you are given the fundamental tools to do what you please, and are only limited by that which you are given, in the same way the game world in Far Cry or Prototype is only (although massive) a certain size and the abilities/weapons/game engine control the amount of damage you can cause.

For me, my own personal opinion is that looking at both GT5 and FM4 side by side, Forza takes the biscuit with regards to the 'tools' supplied and therefore is the better example of this type of game. For me the breadth, depth and longevity of Forza has long since beaten the novelty of GT5s special events and massive car list.

 

[cuco33]

PC core racing sims have people only making custom liveries and even taking pics, not to the level that GT5 and FM4 do but they are still considered racing sims.

 

[t.o.]

What I mean by keeping a log is to keep a record of the events that were fun versus the ones that weren't so. Just last night I did a race in one of the very low classes (which surprised me) and the A.I. was very good. They didn't do the braking stunt at any and every kink. I believe it was the national circuit. Yeah I won but still it was nice racing nonetheless.

One thing I don't know is X00 my cars when selecting a car for an event. So maybe that's part of it. In other words I save my B500 A600 S700 for the online world. A S650 or a B467 can get the job done most of the time.

 

[imported_eSZee]

F/E class cars don't brake check and do all that weird stuff because they don't go fast enough into certain sections to turn the driving line yellow/red. The brake line is what triggers the dumb stuff a lot of the time.

 

[Ryan81]

There is no doubt that in many respects the Forza series has surpassed GT. As someone pointed out, GT is missing serious manufacturers- Koenigsegg, Saab, Noble, Porsche, Morgan to name but a few and this hurts them big time.
Their DLC has been very meagre in comparison to Forza's and while certain features in GT outshine Forza, they are relatively few and far between.

My biggest gripe with GT is the tiny A-spec career mode vs Forza's career mode. For a game in production 5 years, it's not good enough.

 

[sennafreak]

Ok, i made the leap, bought an Xbox and Forza 4 (was lucky enough to find a pack that gamestop still had in the backroom).

I am very glad that i did it; Forza surpasses GT as a game like you can't imagine... The car lineup is a dream, beautiful perfectly modelled jewels from all continents, that GT users just wish they could get their hands on. Cars that have a special nostalgic place in my heart, and exactly my taste of automotive history .

The race format, the cockpit views, the diversity in circuits with the lighting and atmosphere all on the money...

These were all the things i expected from GT5 when it came out but the game just didnt deliver.

The races themselves are better structured, the AI is more competitive and don't follow a fixed pattern, they race amongst themselves and sometimes screw up and slide out (i play on custom level now), the bonusses and goodies are more attractive and rewarding. The engines sound like they have to and not like a mixed bunch of electrical appliances.
The tuning and the customization options all top notch, the possibilities are endless...

The only thing now that i can think of, that is still better in GT is the physics, as in GT it is a little harder to control the car out of a slide and the weight is more outspoken. But still Forza's effort is almost as good, and when i will switch to a harder level i'm sure the slides won't be as easy to handle anymore.

To summarize things; Forza feels like a next gen racer with Turn 10 having given it the dedication and attention in all the right places, whilst the Polyphony people just wasted years tweaking the physics and neglected the "game and enjoyment" part completely, giving us a unfinished product that partly still feels like a PS2 game.

I doubt i will return to GT, as the contras of that game outweigh the pro's of Forza vastly! My login bonus from GT has dropped down to a 100% now as i havent bothered with it since i made the leap

Chapeau to the Turn 10 boys, they know what the customer wants from a next gen racer, and they listen yes sir!

 

[MagpieRacer]

Do you play with a wheel? Just curious, I find Forza harder to come out of a slide with my wheel on sim steering.

Nice comparison though, I agree with pretty much all you said.

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

GT5 is just a mess features wise, I believe the true comparison should be forza 4 and GT4 when when talking features and that is just sad.

 

[HAL20XX]

I recently blew the dust off my copy of GT5 and one thing I will say is that I appreciate how the AI has a sense of self preservation and concedes to right of way when passing, especially in a corner. If you're in their line and the only two options are crash or lose speed, they'll lose speed in most cases.

 

[sennafreak]

Do you play with a wheel? Just curious, I find Forza harder to come out of a slide with my wheel on sim steering.

Nice comparison though, I agree with pretty much all you said.

Nope, controller straight out of the box, but dosing the gas and brakes work well enough with the shoulderbuttons. For Xbox you only have the microsoft wheel almost no i heard? Because Bill Gates gives to charity yes, but the corporate is still money greedy? Haven't looked into wheel options for Xbox so far.

I recently blew the dust off my copy of GT5 and one thing I will say is that I appreciate how the AI has a sense of self preservation and concedes to right of way when passing, especially in a corner. If you're in their line and the only two options are crash or lose speed, they'll lose speed in most cases.

That is just one of my biggest irritations with the AI in GT, They never put up a fight, and when you pass them they literally hold of the gass and drop back 2 seconds immediatly... that is not racing at al + restart a race you'll see that they follow the same boring lines each and every time.

Hate the AI there, it's awful and totally uncompetitive.