Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Goshin2568]

Nope, controller straight out of the box, but dosing the gas and brakes work well enough with the shoulderbuttons. For Xbox you only have the microsoft wheel almost no i heard? Because Bill Gates gives to charity yes, but the corporate is still money greedy? Haven't looked into wheel options for Xbox so far.



That is just one of my biggest irritations with the AI in GT, They never put up a fight, and when you pass them they literally hold of the gass and drop back 2 seconds immediatly... that is not racing at al + restart a race you'll see that they follow the same boring lines each and every time.

Hate the AI there, it's awful and totally uncompetitive.

I don't even understand why pad users even care about physics. That's like someone sitting in their house complaining about how strong the wind is outside. If you can't feel it (through FFB in this analogy), why does it matter?

 

[hennessey86]

Haven't looked into wheel options for Xbox so far.

Look no further than Fanatec, they make logitecs feel like toys

 

[Terronium-12]

I don't even understand why pad users even care about physics. That's like someone sitting in their house complaining about how strong the wind is outside. If you can't feel it (through FFB in this analogy), why does it matter?

That is one foolish analogy.

A pad user can care just as much about physics as someone using a wheel, because whether you want to believe it or not you can get a feel for the car (and it's characteristics) with a pad.

 

[Melting Brains]

That is one foolish analogy.

A pad user can care just as much about physics as someone using a wheel, because whether you want to believe it or not you can get a feel for the car (and it's characteristics) with a pad.

I was going to react the same. I use a pad 99% of the time, while I do have a Fanatec setup, but I also have a family who doesn´t appreciate the thing set on the table all the time and I can´t always be bothered to dust it off and set it up.

Any ways, using a controller the physics are just as important and there´s also FFB.

 

[hennessey86]

I was a pad user for a long time, right through to Forza 3 and then I made the jump and bought a Fanatec GT2. You can get a sense of what the car is doing using a pad, just look at some of the faster pad users to see that. But I think you get a more realistic and more involving experience through a wheel. @Melting Brains-I know what you mean I have to turn my bedroom upside down to use my wheel, but its worth it

 

[GT6mebe]

I recently blew the dust off my copy of GT5 and one thing I will say is that I appreciate how the AI has a sense of self preservation and concedes to right of way when passing, especially in a corner. If you're in their line and the only two options are crash or lose speed, they'll lose speed in most cases.

I actually think GT5's AI are alright in terms of racing discipline but it falls apart once you overtake. If you look in your rear view mirror you can see the AI visibly brake and slow down even though you are in front of him. Basically once your first you have won.

 

[t.o.]

Look no further than Fanatec, they make logitecs feel like toys

Truer words have never been spoken ... imo of course.

 

[Goshin2568]

That is one foolish analogy.

Hahaha I know. It was late and I couldn't think of much else.

A pad user can care just as much about physics as someone using a wheel, because whether you want to believe it or not you can get a feel for the car (and it's characteristics) with a pad.

Despite how it may have sounded, I really am not hating on pad users. I'm not trying to say that you can't tell the car's characteristics and whatnot with a pad, I'm just wondering why a pad user cares about physics. Stick with me, I'm not trolling, and my argument makes sense. I really am curious.

People who want good physics are after realism, correct? If you don't care about realism, I would say screw physics and play whatever is the most fun.
If you do care about realism, which I suspect many of you pad users clamoring on about physics do, than why on earth are you using a pad? All the realism of the game has been thrown out the window by the fact that you are controlling the car by a stick, two triggers, and some buttons. So why does the software realism matter?

 

[t.o.]

I don't even understand why pad users even care about physics. That's like someone sitting in their house complaining about how strong the wind is outside. If you can't feel it (through FFB in this analogy), why does it matter?

That is one foolish analogy.

A pad user can care just as much about physics as someone using a wheel, because whether you want to believe it or not you can get a feel for the car (and it's characteristics) with a pad.

I was going to react the same. I use a pad 99% of the time, while I do have a Fanatec setup, but I also have a family who doesn´t appreciate the thing set on the table all the time and I can´t always be bothered to dust it off and set it up.

Any ways, using a controller the physics are just as important and there´s also FFB.

I was a pad user for a long time, right through to Forza 3 and then I made the jump and bought a Fanatec GT2. You can get a sense of what the car is doing using a pad, just look at some of the faster pad users to see that. But I think you get a more realistic and more involving experience through a wheel. @Melting Brains-I know what you mean I have to turn my bedroom upside down to use my wheel, but its worth it

I've been wracking my brain on this for quite some time. I'm in the same position you guys are with not being able to wheel-it all the time and having to use the controller more than I use my wheel.

I think Goshin has a valid point , or at least one that begs to be explored. I have to say with the controller you're not getting the WHOLE physics experience. We know that buffers are in play with the controller that aren't there or severely lessened with a wheel.

I don't think Goshin meant any disrespect but he does have a point in there. There's been many times I've taken a car around the track with the controller and then on my wheel days taken that same car on the same track and hit a curve and been like "WTF where did that reaction come from" as the car is oversteering like a mad man or not turning for ish when it was smooth with the controller.

 

[shawtyoner]

People who want good physics are after realism, correct? If you don't care about realism, I would say screw physics and play whatever is the most fun.
If you do care about realism, which I suspect many of you pad users clamoring on about physics do, than why on earth are you using a pad? All the realism of the game has been thrown out the window by the fact that you are controlling the car by a stick, two triggers, and some buttons. So why does the software realism matter?

 

[Northstar]

than why on earth are you using a pad?

Well, the biggest factor is I don't have $250 to spend on a wheel that I don't really need. Not to mention I don't play many video games any more so the 15 minutes it would take to set it up every time wouldn't really be worth it to me.

 

[Terronium-12]

Hahaha I know. It was late and I couldn't think of much else.

Well as long as you know.

Despite how it may have sounded, I really am not hating on pad users. I'm not trying to say that you can't tell the car's characteristics and whatnot with a pad, I'm just wondering why a pad user cares about physics. Stick with me, I'm not trolling, and my argument makes sense. I really am curious.

People who want good physics are after realism, correct? If you don't care about realism, I would say screw physics and play whatever is the most fun.
If you do care about realism, which I suspect many of you pad users clamoring on about physics do, than why on earth are you using a pad? All the realism of the game has been thrown out the window by the fact that you are controlling the car by a stick, two triggers, and some buttons. So why does the software realism matter?

In my case the answer to your first question is relatively easy-answered: I already own a incompatible wheel (G27) and I really can't be bothered with setting aside another $230-250+ for another wheel for one specific game. Yes, I could sell my G27 and use the money therein to put toward, say, the CSR Elite but the problem with that is I'm not selling my G27 as I've grown quite attached to it.

As for your second question, I may not be experiencing things as they were intended but that doesn't dissuade me from being able to identify core differences between what "feels" right (or close to it at the very least) and what I know "feels" wrong. It's almost entirely subjective as both ends of the spectrum have their positives, negatives, and exploits. For example, I'm well versed in driving with a wheel but cannot for the life of me maintain a constant drift angle the same way I would in GT5 with the DS3 - I just can't wrap my head around it. Of course drifting isn't a real skill set I possess, but that's neither here nor there.

Speaking of GT5 let's look at your argument the other way around: I've spent too much time learning the ins and outs of the X1/X2010/X2011, and it's incredibly challenging with a pad, so much that I've actually adjusted to it in such a way I can be almost as precise with it as I would with my wheel, albeit sacrificing advantages such as as manual shifting, and "proper" throttle and brake management. Now with a wheel of course I'm faster because those additional elements are at my disposal, however, it comes at a cost, a caveat if you will - it's too easy. It loses all of the charm that made it such an attraction to me.

The point being it can go either way. Neither way is 'truly' better than the other, for if it were there wouldn't be pad drivers at the top of the time sheets.

 

[hennessey86]

Well as long as you know.



In my case the answer to your first question is relatively easy-answered: I already own a incompatible wheel (G27) and I really can't be bothered with setting aside another $230-250+ for another wheel for one specific game. Yes, I could sell my G27 and use the money therein to put toward, say, the CSR Elite but the problem with that is I'm not selling my G27 as I've grown quite attached to it.

As for your second question, I may not be experiencing things as they were intended but that doesn't dissuade me from being able to identify core differences between what "feels" right (or close to it at the very least) and what I know "feels" wrong. It's almost entirely subjective as both ends of the spectrum have their positives, negatives, and exploits. For example, I'm well versed in driving with a wheel but cannot for the life of me maintain a constant drift angle the same way I would in GT5 with the DS3 - I just can't wrap my head around it. Of course drifting isn't a real skill set I possess, but that's neither here nor there.

well you might be interested in the xcm converter v1.2 which apparently makes the g27 work on the 360 with ffb

 

[TheeStopher]

Okay I am finally going to contribute to this site after being a GTPlanet user for almost 2 years now. I fell in love with driving games and sims since GT5 Prologue when I finally got a Logitech GT. Now I have a full Fanatec setup with a GT2 Wheel, CSR Elite pedals, and a nice shiny CSR 6-speed shifter

I am a level 36 driver in GT5 now with almost 100 cars. I enjoy driving every type of car from 4 banger FF's to V12 beauties, every car feels different and unique in its own way. The Shifter and Clutch set makes the experience extremely more fulfilling always keeping you busy. I always found GT5 to have great feel in the wheel providing direct feedback of the road beneath the tires and when the car lost traction there was always the ability to catch it properly. I love how organised the grouping of the AI seems and they rarely cause accidents, but they also tend to not make mistakes.

I loved every aspect of the game from karting to rally to driving super cars around the Nurburgring, it was all amazing. After the countless hours of virtual driving on my Playstation, I finally melted the glue holding the CPU to the mother board and thus killing my PS3 with the "Yellow Light of Death"

After my weeping was done I searched everywhere for a place to fix my first gen PS3 with no luck. I finally found a small hole in the wall shop where it is now sitting in and has been for over a month. My cravings grew too much after about 3 weeks so I went down to the store too pick up a copy of Forza Motorsport 4... This is where my life has been for the last several weeks

I have fallen in love with Forza now thanks to my GT2 being cross compatible with the Xbox 360. Many aspects of the game are similar but there are also just as many differences. The tire modeling in Forza is fantastic, losing grip when it should and giving the right amount of tire for each car. Changing the tire widths and compounds drastically changes each car. I have found that the roads however seem more flat and artificial, driving the Nurburgring isn't nearly as hairy in Forza as it is bouncing down the ending straight at 180 MPH in GT5. The visual sense of speed is there but not the feeling in the road. I like the tuning of Forza and the upgrades, but putting an AWD system on a Viper is a bit far. I do like being able to see the displacement changes and lateral grip when upgrading my vehicles. The whole game seems very polished with a few areas left a little rough. The interior views are great but lack the uber detail polyphony went through with surface textures and stitching. All in all Forza has turned out to be a great game after all.

The one thing I hate more than anything else is the fact that the AI in Forza are completely careless of their cars. Cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars getting smashed every race. Just last night I was racing on the last lap of an intense second heat coming down a back straight in my S class Viper when a Ferrari decided he would just smash into me as im making my turn in so he can cut the corner. I then had to restart the race due to the fact that im used to GT5's brutalness of no rewinds so i enjoy getting a 20% boost in cash for good driving. Tell me, how often do you see gentleman just smashing up their cars on a race track?? Never, they are mostly very careful drivers who hit apex's and rarely run onto the grass. Forza truly needs to implement a more careful AI. One that doesn't make me constantly restart races.

Overall I am very happy with my Forza experience while my PS3 is dead. It really is feeding my driving addiction and giving me the GT fix I was wanting.

Thanks for reading and I hope this gave some good insight. Ill post my set up later in the sim rigs column and possibly some pictures of my real life rides Thanks again everyone and have a great day!

 

[HAL20XX]

I actually think GT5's AI are alright in terms of racing discipline but it falls apart once you overtake. If you look in your rear view mirror you can see the AI visibly brake and slow down even though you are in front of him. Basically once your first you have won.

Exactly this. Unfortunately, Forza's AI gets dinged on both accounts. I prefer Forza by leaps and bounds over GT5, it's just a shame that their AI is still pretty far behind.

 

[t.o.]

The one thing I hate more than anything else is the fact that the AI in Forza are completely careless of their cars. Cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars getting smashed every race. Just last night I was racing on the last lap of an intense second heat coming down a back straight in my S class Viper when a Ferrari decided he would just smash into me as im making my turn in so he can cut the corner. I then had to restart the race due to the fact that im used to GT5's brutalness of no rewinds so i enjoy getting a 20% boost in cash for good driving. Tell me, how often do you see gentleman just smashing up their cars on a race track?? Never, they are mostly very careful drivers who hit apex's and rarely run onto the grass. Forza truly needs to implement a more careful AI. One that doesn't make me constantly restart races.

This part here is very subjective. I'm sort of a "recent" real-life racing fan. I always had an illusion of what a race would be like, everyone taking corners perfectly, nose to tail, everyone in a group at the end basically having a drag-contest to the finish line. But from looking at real life races I have to say almost every one of them to the last have basically none of that.

I haven't watched a real life race yet where there weren't at least two crashes. I haven't seen ONE single race in real life where there weren't any accidents. Also I haven't see a race where the whole pack is screaming down the finish line. Usually 2-4 racers just completely leave the field behind. The rest of the field look like they shouldn't even be in the race. 1 or 2 guys just dominate everyone else and pretty much close to the margins you see in Forza.

Guys are wrecking million dollar cars like they grow on trees in desperation to get that win. That was another thing I had to deal with in the last race series. I was artificially trying to make the racing close, well I should say we've been hosting previous races where we used grouping to make the races closer but then I thought to myself "How realistic is that?". Sure they do have success ballast in some series and other things but they're not trying to get the whole field together, usually just to slow down the top dude a little. So the last series I took that off (except for the Audi cars which were just in a different league than the rest of the cars, they probably needed to be tuned better).

 

[TheeStopher]

@ t.o.: I have been a very strong racing fan for many years now. I love the Le Mans racing series, Indy Car, and even F1. There are crashes and that is expected because everyone is racing at the peak of their potential. Once the race starts they all speed off the line and come into a tight bunch into the first corner. They may bunch extremely tightly but you rarely see the bumper car feeling i get in Forza where every car is grinding and smashing the cars around them trying to go as fast as possible. There is a difference between driving hard and driving sloppy and i think it just needs to be tuned a bit. It is all opinion based and this is my opinion How does the AI react when you drive?

 

[t.o.]

How does the AI react when you drive?

Herein lies another problem with describing the AI action in the game. "How does the AI react when you drive?" that's a loaded question. From my observations and races I can't answer how the "AI" drives. What I do know is that there are some drivers who are timid as hell, other drivers who seem like they are very nervous, some drivers that are your average drivers and some that are complete A-holes that you wish were real people so you could beat them up.

 

[HAL20XX]

The thing with real racing is that those few crashes happen within the course of 60-90 laps. In FM it's typically within turn 1 (and do AI cars suffer from damage? I've always wondered that). Part of the issue is that most races are under 5 laps so I find even myself being a raging dick when it comes to the AI and they're doing the same, all because there isn't enough time to race a clean race. But, until I actually watched some races in person, I wasn't a fan of long races, particularly endurance races.

I'll admit I'm a recent racing convert. I went to the Grand Prix at Belle Isle 2 weeks ago and caught the Cadillac World Challenge Series, along with of course, the actual Grand Prix. I then went to Mid-Ohio last Saturday to catch the Grand Am series and I'm totally hooked. In fact, my friend and I, who used to own a performance shop about 10 years ago, are thinking about putting together a B-Spec touring car and start competing within the next couple years.

 

[TheeStopher]

What I do know is that there are some drivers who are timid as hell, other drivers who seem like they are very nervous, some drivers that are your average drivers and some that are complete A-holes that you wish were real people so you could beat them up.

This is what i was wondering.. I will watch the replays to find this out. If the drivers really do have different personalities then that would be different. My experience so far has been a complete field of these "A-holes". They have tended to make me more angry than competitive often making me restart the race. It's not a problem but more of a nuisance. Oh well, BACK TO RACING

Thanks for your input by the way

 

[imported_1mic]

Truer words have never been spoken ... imo of course.

Is this really true? I might sell my G27 because I don't play gt5 anymore

Also, I dropped this post at GTP: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7213585#post7213585

 

[HBK]

(and do AI cars suffer from damage? I've always wondered that)

They suffer from damage according to your difficulty setting. If you use "cosmetic", no car will get mechanically damaged. If you use "limited" or "simulation", all cars will get mechanically damaged just like the player's car would (granted there is some randomness in Forza's damage system).

 

[t.o.]

Is this really true? I might sell my G27 because I don't play gt5 anymore

Also, I dropped this post at GTP: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7213585#post7213585

The thing about the G27 in comparison to the Fanatec is that , of course this is MY opinion, it feels like a toy next to the Fanatecs. When I used it I could easily tell it was using gears instead of being belt driven like the Fanatec. That right there just kills the immersion because you feel as if you have a toy in your hand compared to the Fanatec which feels more like a real car, or I should say closer to a real car.

I give the G27 props because it's a VERY strong wheel because of the gears being used but the Fanatec isn't exactly Olive Oil either. The G27 will rip right out your hands and fighting that can probably mess you up. Playing the same game at the same strength the Fanatec will rip from your hands as well but if you really REALLY tried you could probably fight it but in both cases G27 and Fanatec you'll be putting undue strain on your motor so it's probably best to let go making the "hand ripping strength" kinda null and void.

But when it comes to smoothness the Fanatec is far ahead of the G27. Also add to that the Fanatec comes with extra motors just for effects that the G27 can't do. All in all you go with the Fanatec and I can almost guarantee that you'll have the G27 sitting in a box from now on. Add to that the Clubsport pedals and you're in heaven. The Clubsport pedals are LIGHTYEARS better than anything Fanatec ever put out for you to place under your feet.

Those insidesimracing guys even commented that using the Clubsport pedals over guys with standard pedals is like all out cheating. And they're not kidding. There is no way I could use another set of pedals ever again in life unless they were as good as or better than the Clubsport. They are pricey but they are worth every damn penny and then some.

I hate the statement I'm about to make because I hate when other people do it. Why give a company ideas? But I have to say I would actually pay MORE for the Clubsport pedals if I had to. And believe me dude I NEVER make that kind of statement publicly.

 

[sennafreak]

Maybe it's true that the AI in Forza is aggresive, but i prefer that than having 11 grandmothers on their way to the supermarket, glued on invisible rails like GT's lame effort.

At least in Forza you have to fight for the position, and they take corners decently fast, + try to overtake you when there is a possibility. I don't mind having to sacrifice some scratches in my door, or even spinning out sometimes in return.

Also the AI is so bloody scripted in GT, restart a race and on the same moment at the same place of the track, those 2 bots will be there again in front of you at the exact same spot as before, probably obstructing you... Restart a race in Forza and they take a different approach each time.

Forza's AI is miles better than GT's! And this comes from a level 40 GT player

 

[UKMikey]

People who want good physics are after realism, correct? If you don't care about realism, I would say screw physics and play whatever is the most fun.
If you do care about realism, which I suspect many of you pad users clamoring on about physics do, than why on earth are you using a pad?

I'm using a pad because I can't drive. Physics matter because they make the vehicle more predictable for anyone who's familiar with the physical laws involved. If they didn't we'd only be playing arcade style games. Wildly unrealistic responses from the pad would mae the game counterintuitive and difficult to drive (TD5 Unlimited 2).

So I guess the short answer is that we pad users care about physics, just not as much as the FFB wheel users.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Had a go on GT5 today for the first time since update 2.0. WTF is up with the loading times? It takes soooo long to load anything.

 

[Wolfe]

People who want good physics are after realism, correct? If you don't care about realism, I would say screw physics and play whatever is the most fun.
If you do care about realism, which I suspect many of you pad users clamoring on about physics do, than why on earth are you using a pad? All the realism of the game has been thrown out the window by the fact that you are controlling the car by a stick, two triggers, and some buttons. So why does the software realism matter?

Maybe you're thinking about this too hard? The physics completely define the gameplay; they aren't just garnish on some standard racing game experience. If you want to drive fast and free without much effort you play something like Ridge Racer or Out Run 2; if you want more involvement but still lots of stability you play something like Burnout or Need for Speed; if you want a wildly unrealistic but exciting and challenging experience you play the likes of Midnight Club, or PGR, or the Codemasters games (GRID, DiRT).

...and if you are in the mood to play something with cars that respond accurately and perform realistically, you play Gran Turismo, Forza, Enthusia, Richard Burns Rally, Live for Speed, rFactor, iRacing, etc. (everyone has their favorite).

Personally, similar to T-12 I have a Logitech wheel I'm happy with; I only use it for PC games anyway. Forza 4 with a gamepad works great, and it's nothing at all like any of the games mentioned in the first paragraph. I'll play any of them, but they're not some flat gray slate of unrealistic videogameness just because I always use the controller.

So I pick one based on what mood I'm in. The physics are the core of the game no matter how you play.

 

[imported_1mic]

Had a go on GT5 today for the first time since update 2.0. WTF is up with the loading times? It takes soooo long to load anything.

You're telling me, I have a SSD in my slim and everything on ps3 takes forever to load. I think as long as Kaz is in charge of GT series it will go no where and with reviews having Forza 4 higher than GT5, it will only get better!

I hope when Forza 5 comes out it completely eclipses what GT6 has to offer, it is already too late for the GT series anyways. As long as there is DLC the dev's are getting money which means motivation to improve/add on to the game.

 

[Goshin2568]

Maybe you're thinking about this too hard? The physics completely define the gameplay; they aren't just garnish on some standard racing game experience. If you want to drive fast and free without much effort you play something like Ridge Racer or Out Run 2; if you want more involvement but still lots of stability you play something like Burnout or Need for Speed; if you want a wildly unrealistic but exciting and challenging experience you play the likes of Midnight Club, or PGR, or the Codemasters games (GRID, DiRT).

...and if you are in the mood to play something with cars that respond accurately and perform realistically, you play Gran Turismo, Forza, Enthusia, Richard Burns Rally, Live for Speed, rFactor, iRacing, etc. (everyone has their favorite).

Personally, similar to T-12 I have a Logitech wheel I'm happy with; I only use it for PC games anyway. Forza 4 with a gamepad works great, and it's nothing at all like any of the games mentioned in the first paragraph. I'll play any of them, but they're not some flat gray slate of unrealistic videogameness just because I always use the controller.

So I pick one based on what mood I'm in. The physics are the core of the game no matter how you play.

What? The core of the gameplay experience? That's complete bologna. You could swap FM4's physics engine for say, Hot Pursuit's, and it would be exactly the same for pad users except for easier and less realistic. But what I struggle to understand is why the realism matters. As long as basic things are modeled, such as under/oversteer, power over, decent tire model, etc. than the experience is relatively the same. It's not like you are going to pick up the pad and say "Wow. It takes 1.5 seconds of moving this stick to the left rather than 1.8 seconds. This is unrealistic." It's so unrealistic in the first place just because a pad is being used, that I really don't understand the point of squabbling about which is more realistic.

 

[t.o.]

I thought if running abs on a fanatec eliminates engine rumble but you get brake lock up vibration instead.

Turn off the ABS function and the rims motors reflect engine revs.

Almost sure this applets to GT too.

Dude the vibration does work in GT5 all you have to do is turn off the ABS on the Fanatec wheel I have a CSR and the motor vibration are pretty damn strong (I have my Sho at 10). I own both games and while the understeer effect is better in FM4 the wheel feel is better and more natural to me in GT5. Treed by my man spag. In FM4 you don't need ABS off, the wheel will still rumble which I love, because GT5 abs system is terrible. Without the Fanetec ABS rumble and ABS off (in GT5) you have to get use to the wheel weight shift and the sounds. With ABS off and the correct brake balance GT5 braking becomes very good. Even so I hate it because it is hard to find drivers who are willing to get a realistic experience while braking. Everybody is so used to the stomp on the brakes method because GT5 ABS 1 does not make you pay for bad braking technique. FM4 does.

Edit also the way you say GT5 has no feel I completely disagree with you. You can feel elevation change bumps and weight transfer and oversteer really good. I have been playing GT5 longer so maybe I can feel it better. In FM4 what stands out to me is the tire grip levels. Its really good with the understeer part. Doing launches are AWESOME way better than GT5 and I think this is due to the great tire physics. The oversteer is kinda shaky IMO. Again both games are great and it really comes down to your preference I'm just glad I have both. 👍

Ok guys I just brought my wheel back into the living room , wife cleaning the MAN CAVE/office/2nd bedroom so I took the rig out. Decided to give GT Academy a run. Would you believe there's engine revs in the game!!!! You guys were right .... but wait a minute .... after a few runs with the wheel something feels definitely WRONG with the engine rev. This thing feels horrible and fake. Then it hits me, and pretty quick. Just from what I've felt it seems the game is not simulating engine revs at all. All the wheel is doing is vibrating the motor according to how much you press the gas. Not like Forza where the game itself is doing the work and sending the signals to the motors.

Completely different beast guys. Again, GT5 doesn't do engine.