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- MAidioPT
Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)
- Thread starter espeed623
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- 324
- Portugal @ PS4
- MAidioPT
i'm good at every game most of the times
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- The Moon
- nofxmike06
- NOFXMIKE06
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- 2,045
- TX
- whitemanLS1
shocked? should be expected, in the single player FGT series i remember they spin out regularly at 14 and 15. The AI in forza while aggressive and stick the fastest line at all costs at least provide a good race. GT was a giant time trial with cars on track.
I'm confused. It will pretty much look like GT5 with some tweaks (new cars/new physics). Do you people actually think that the PS3 has magically been hiding vast amounts of processing power that will magically appear when GT6 comes out? I'm pretty sure it's maxed out at the moment. So is the Xbox 360. If you're talking about physics and/or features this thread makes no sense because nobody has played both yet to make a proper comparison.
- 2,045
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- whitemanLS1
who you talking to?
I know what GT6 will look like, maybe a bit cleaner than GT5. I know you can't compare the two in that department. What GT6 can be is fun, which is something the series hasn't been for since GT2. The basic gameplay has not changed since GT1, some things have changed but nothing in the game play department.
My response is directed at the comments suggesting that GT6 is going to be somehow comparable with Forza 5 which is next gen and somehow better graphically than gt5 which it can't really be. If we're comparing anything else you can't know until you've played both and nobody has yet. This kind of makes the whole comparison thing moot.
- 2,025
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- GTP_KinLM
- KinLM
What I don't understand is why people talk about GT6 being "GT5.5"
You all say "It's just GT5 with minor improvements and fixes everywhere."
But isn't that what you're sorta supposed to do when you make the next game in a long series?
Furthermore, isn't that basically what Forza has been doing ever since FM2?
You make it better. You try and improve it in the areas that need it.
GT5 in many ways (not all) was a ground-up rebuild of the game, and that idea sure doesn't seem like it worked.
GT4 and GT2 were really GT3 and GT1 (respectively) with everything improved and tweaked and fixed. So I don't see what the complaints are.
You all say "It's just GT5 with minor improvements and fixes everywhere."
But isn't that what you're sorta supposed to do when you make the next game in a long series?
Furthermore, isn't that basically what Forza has been doing ever since FM2?
You make it better. You try and improve it in the areas that need it.
GT5 in many ways (not all) was a ground-up rebuild of the game, and that idea sure doesn't seem like it worked.
GT4 and GT2 were really GT3 and GT1 (respectively) with everything improved and tweaked and fixed. So I don't see what the complaints are.
- 17,834
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- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
Alot of people see it as GT5.5 for several valid reasons. For starters, the jump in content appears to be much, much smaller then previous sequels on the same console. GT2 had 4x the cars and 2x the tracks of GT1. GT4 had 4x the cars and 2x the tracks of GT3. From the numbers we got from GT6 so far, it appears to be a fairly marginal increase in content.
Also people expect more of Gran Turismo now then they used to. Forza has raised the bar for console sims in terms of customization. Forza has also been the higher rated console sim for a good while now. Many people want Gran Turismo to match or at least try to catch up with Forza in many areas but from what we saw from the reveal, several key weaknesses of Gran Turismo like sound, customization, damage, and AI still remain intact.
- 301
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- Chippy569
- Chippy569
I'm grabbing my GT5 stats from here: http://www.gran-turismo.com/local/jp/data1/products/gt5/carlist_en.html - so we have a common frame of reference. I have no way to verify this list's accuracy, but it's the only one I've found with DLC included.
That being said, GT5 with all DLC comes out to 1,064 cars. The claimed number of on-disc cars for GT6 is ~1200? So over the course of 3 years since GT5 launched (Nov. 2010) PD have only added 136 cars? Whereas in one year of FM4 DLC, they added something like 150 cars?
And I can't confirm this obviously, but if their GT5 DLC history is to be taken as example, then some of the previously-standard cars that have been "premiumized" (to quote Kaz from https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-on-gran-turismo-6-standardpremium-cars/) are going to be included in those "new" cars (ie the Countach LP400 that was standard in GT5 will still exist in the car list, but a new premium model will be added, counting as 1 new car.)
And let's not forget how much of the car count is, functionally anyway, duplicate cars. From the above car list, I've compiled a few of the most frequently-appearing cars:
Skyline: 46 variants (not including the tuner manufacturers (ie manufacturer only listed as "nissan" or "infiniti")) plus 13 R35 variants (including race cars) for a total of (at least) 59 GTRs.
Miata/Eunos/Roadster: 22 MX5 + 7 Eunos + 6 roadster variants for a total of (at least) 35 miatas.
Impreza: 26 variants (including rally and CUSCO time attack cars)
RX7: 26 variants (including efini models)
Lancer Evo: 24 variants
NSX: 19 under honda plus 4 under acura for 23 variants
Civic/integra/RSX: 22 variants
S2000: 17 variants (under the Honda name: some more under tuners)
Granted, I can appreciate having some model year and marque variations in there, but that list is 8 car model names. I could see having ~5 variants per name there, for a realistic number of 40 cars. But in GT5, you get 228 out of this stack, plus tuner models (spoon, AEM, etc.). Out of your 1064 GT5 cars, 21% are in this list of 8 models.
After watching the GT6 "gameplay" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZxx4XTzFI - and seeing that the in-race UI is completely unchanged, the UI sound effects are completely unchanged, and the vehicle sounds are unimproved, I can completely understand why some are hailing this as "GT5.5." In fact, the only improvement I can gather from this video (apart from the new car and track) is that the menu is slightly different and may or may not actually be better. It's still using that goofy cursor system, though things appear to be aligned in a grid now (at least at track and car selection)...
I love racing games, but the things that I find so disappointing in the GT franchise seem to be completely unaddressed.
That being said, GT5 with all DLC comes out to 1,064 cars. The claimed number of on-disc cars for GT6 is ~1200? So over the course of 3 years since GT5 launched (Nov. 2010) PD have only added 136 cars? Whereas in one year of FM4 DLC, they added something like 150 cars?
And I can't confirm this obviously, but if their GT5 DLC history is to be taken as example, then some of the previously-standard cars that have been "premiumized" (to quote Kaz from https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-on-gran-turismo-6-standardpremium-cars/) are going to be included in those "new" cars (ie the Countach LP400 that was standard in GT5 will still exist in the car list, but a new premium model will be added, counting as 1 new car.)
And let's not forget how much of the car count is, functionally anyway, duplicate cars. From the above car list, I've compiled a few of the most frequently-appearing cars:
Skyline: 46 variants (not including the tuner manufacturers (ie manufacturer only listed as "nissan" or "infiniti")) plus 13 R35 variants (including race cars) for a total of (at least) 59 GTRs.
Miata/Eunos/Roadster: 22 MX5 + 7 Eunos + 6 roadster variants for a total of (at least) 35 miatas.
Impreza: 26 variants (including rally and CUSCO time attack cars)
RX7: 26 variants (including efini models)
Lancer Evo: 24 variants
NSX: 19 under honda plus 4 under acura for 23 variants
Civic/integra/RSX: 22 variants
S2000: 17 variants (under the Honda name: some more under tuners)
Granted, I can appreciate having some model year and marque variations in there, but that list is 8 car model names. I could see having ~5 variants per name there, for a realistic number of 40 cars. But in GT5, you get 228 out of this stack, plus tuner models (spoon, AEM, etc.). Out of your 1064 GT5 cars, 21% are in this list of 8 models.
After watching the GT6 "gameplay" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZxx4XTzFI - and seeing that the in-race UI is completely unchanged, the UI sound effects are completely unchanged, and the vehicle sounds are unimproved, I can completely understand why some are hailing this as "GT5.5." In fact, the only improvement I can gather from this video (apart from the new car and track) is that the menu is slightly different and may or may not actually be better. It's still using that goofy cursor system, though things appear to be aligned in a grid now (at least at track and car selection)...
I love racing games, but the things that I find so disappointing in the GT franchise seem to be completely unaddressed.
mister dog
(Banned)
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
Nice post, i also think PD get way too much praise from their fanbase, whilst they have not bothered much in adressing the many ugly screwups that we have been asking for in the last 10 or so years...
They seem to be completely ignorant towards what we want them to adress, and just do whatever they want with their game, which is basicly; working on a new physics model for each installment, promoting Nissan and spending half of their resources on GT academy.
When i switched to Forza 4 the first thing i told to myself was ¨this is the game GT5 should have been¨, and i'm very glad i did that in the end.
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Here's a more complete list http://www.mygranturismo.net/carlist.php?range=5000, which puts the total at 1109 models in GT5.
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Well..... maybe I'll add my 128 bits to this discussion.
I've just gone back into Forza 4 after essentially dumping it seven weeks after I got it, and the 360 has been collecting dust and cobwebs ever since, as I just don't care for the Box or its game library. I decided to give it another chance after racing in GT5 pretty much non-stop for almost a year, along with a couple of my PC sims, GTR and Live For Speed. While I remembered most of what made those games good - yes, even Forza - some of it got lost in the fog of memory. It was good to get reacquainted and re-learn some of the shortcomings of GT5.
I made a post about it some weeks ago, but I'm still a little yucky, and frazzled after racing in a certain game. In essence, all of them have very good physics. They give you a good race, with a caveat I'll get to presently. To one extent or another they put you in the car and on the track, and racing is pretty darn challenging. But Forza 4 has had the might and talent of more than 400 people working on it, including a Hollywood graphic studio to tune up the graphic engine, and they tore it completely open and reworked just about everything. As a result, Forza 4 could be the best racer on the market, with the possible exception of rFactor 2 which I haven't experienced. The car behavior is outstanding, the modding and livery painting capacity is world class, and the sounds will roar out of your speakers. Every time I roast tires in F4, I swear I can smell burned rubber! It really is that uncanny.
The upshot of my racing day with those other games is that it reinforced the impression I had of GT5 in that the racing is very "safe." Every car is well planted on the road as if it was race tuned, and car dynamics in a race are way too tame, even given that most tracks in almost every racer I've ever played are very smooth. I've been doing Arcade Mode races in GT5 almost exclusively, and cycling through literally hundreds of my Standard cars, and while the bots are fun to chase, they are pretty generic and mostly polite in their behavior, and tend to wimp out when you get any substantial lead on them. In contrast, Forza 4 feels downright dangerous. Taking a Golf GTi around Hockenheim was such a challenge that I had to practice the track for about 40 minutes before I felt remotely comfortable with racing. Throwing a sports car on Sports tires around those curves was a struggle. The car is a handful and it's a little scary trying to push it into limits that aren't safe to drive at. This hazardous aspect, the raw ragged edge of performance, is something GT5 lacks.
However... racing was painful. I hated it. The bots are rowdy brats and aren't shy about using you as an auxilliary brake or trying to bash you off the track. Unlike my car, theirs could make the usual Forza magic maneuvers, flying past me to make olympic late braking maneuvers near turns, fly around those turns while I struggled, and could whip their cars left and right without a problem, in a way that would have me skidding off the track if I tried them. And the stupid exhaust roar of every car from a VW Beetle on up drowns out the tire sounds, which I need badly to judge how much I can push a car around a turn. And your car, not the bots. In fact, it's truly annoying that I can be half a mile from the other cars, and their muted whines will STILL sound as if nearby, and STILL be louder than everything but tire smoking skids from me. Gah. And yes, I adjusted the sound balance.
After finally bashing and cheating my way to a victory, I grumpily put my G25 and 360 Leet stuff back in the basement and ran back to GT5 for the remainder of the night, as messing with Forza had eaten up just about all of the day. And the cars felt too safe, and I missed the sense of danger and that tire squeal, and the next day I had the crazy urge to race in Forza again. I didn't, still raced in GT5, but I peeked at the Forza boards and ogled those liveries everyone was making, and sighed. Monday I got the crazy notion to try Forza one more time. And I had a couple of fluke races that were fairly easy, and pretty darn fun. Plus, the Livery Editor thread had sprung to life again, and I thought maybe I'd try making a new racer to illustrate what I wanted to see in GT6.
Well... Forza turned on me like my drug casualty brother. Racing was utter hell again. I hated it more than ever. I just got done with a race on LeMans which had me spitting and cursing, and I resorted to turning the bots down to medium difficulty just so I could get away from the mother... in-laws. But that was only half a relief, because even with normal steering, tuned brakes, traction control and the brake guideline on, the car would start skidding if I so much as looked at it funny, and nearly every turn had me fighting to keep it on the track. AARGH.
There are still a lot of things I think are excellent about Forza, things every racing developer could stand to copy. And if I could, I'd transmogrify GT and Forza together to create a true Gran Forizmo. It would be the ultimate racer, and I wouldn't play any other racer ever, except the sequel.
Sadly, that's not going to happen. Right now, I'm letting the bot race while I catch my breath and calm down, and farm races for badly needed credits so I can buy more cars I may never want to race. It's sad, but I may be done with Forza, because if I can't push a car around a turn with any assurance, there's not much point to racing. And I wouldn't last a second online, racing like a shaky little kid and bashing into people.
So... yeah, GT6... guess we'll see how awesome sauce it is or isn't in July.
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- GTP_Royalton
From what I've seen, Gran Turismo 6 is a generation behind Forza 5.
Lets not forget PS2 games had weather and night racing, so how thats considered a next gen feature is beyond me
Forza 5 is pushing the genre ahead and knocking down barriers. Gran Turismo is lagging behind severely
Lets not forget PS2 games had weather and night racing, so how thats considered a next gen feature is beyond me
Forza 5 is pushing the genre ahead and knocking down barriers. Gran Turismo is lagging behind severely
- 1,789
- The Motor City
- HAL20xx
- HAL20xx
I agree with the statements on Forza's AI (but not the physics portion). It's impossible to race clean and win a race in 3 laps. I understand taking opportunities going into a turn, but it seems like the AI assumes they'll just be able to bounce off my car and complete the turn.
I have a feeling the new Drivatar will put all other AI to shame.
I have a feeling the new Drivatar will put all other AI to shame.
- 2,025
- Azle, Texas, USA
- GTP_KinLM
- KinLM
Well yeah.
GT6 = PS3 = Last Gen
FM5 = XB1 = Next Gen
If PS2 games had it then what's a reasonable excuse that FM5 doesn't have it?
For weater, It was the hardware before apparently. Now it's the physics? I can sorta see that.
But what about day to night? Can't say it's physics for that. And if day-night shift would be pushing the hardware then the XB1 has some problems.
I'm not going to dispute that too much, although if I'm honest both games are looking a bit like flops now.
But if I'm honest, considering FM5 is a next gen game, I expected it to be much further beyond GT6 than what it's appearing to be as of right now.
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Not sure if that's a good thing or not. 
- 28,287
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Oh, I see that now.
I originally read "trim" as if he were denouncing the option of having interior trims.
I originally read "trim" as if he were denouncing the option of having interior trims.
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