Forza 5 physics vs GT6 аnd other sims

[UKMikey]

Time to adjust the deadzones then. The new controller is going to take getting used to, not sure if you've been using a wheel or not, but I've had all my Forza doses on a controller, and the finesse and intricate corrections you really gotta work on, in this case more so given the new design, with reduced range of motion for some reason. <--- Maybe they want to encourage more sales of controller peripherals.

Launch titles are just a taste of things to come. Wait a year, see what kind of DLC and updates they release.

I think FM6 is going to be the one to really end the show!

It's early days yet and T10 has plenty of time to fumble the ball. I hope it's at least out or imminent by the time GT7 and PCars arrive for a more level playing field.

I think Turn 10 get way too much criticism with this game and not enough credit for how good the game is as shipped.

And when shipped.

 

[FordGTGuy]

All of the assists are off

Honestly you're either a savant at Forza 5 or just lying, the game is not forgiving at the edge of traction in just about any car.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Honestly you're either a savant at Forza 5 or just lying, the game is not forgiving at the edge of traction in just about any car.

He's gotta have normal steering on. I find normal steering corrects you when losing it...Sim steering on the other hand...

 

[Ialyrn]

Honestly you're either a savant at Forza 5 or just lying, the game is not forgiving at the edge of traction in just about any car.

Well really that all depends on a persons natural and learned ability within a specified video game environment, and how good their individual reactions are. Ive had people tell me they find FM5 far too grippy, and others have told me its far too easy to slide around the track. For me though I dont find either of those right. Ive played all the previous forza games with a pad, and FM4 with an MS FFB WRW (yeh, rubbish wheel I know lol). FM5 I have also played with a pad, but I also have the TX. I find that the cars handle how I expect them too, they understeer when I enter a corner faster than the grip available on the front tires, oversteer when I exceed the grip available at the rear, and go around a corner without incident when I get it just right. There is a real emphasis in FM5 for throttle and brake control, and it seems to pay off to to take note of that.

One of the things coming from some people I found strange, was how they would say "I cant drive the Ferrari 458 (or X car) anymore, what has T10 done to it" (this is stock and not tuned), stating it was uncontrollable, and that it would spin out anytime they tried to turn, touch the throttle, or anything else. I tested the car out myself on Spa, and personally found it very easy to drive stock, and great fun when you want it to misbehave.



I cant compare FM5's physics to GT6, but I have played GT1/2/3/4/5, and I very much prefer Forza's physics to the GT games I have played, and always have. I dont know why, I cant elaborate on it, I just prefer Forza's physics. Perhaps its as simple as I prefer the Xbox controller, which I have always found more comfortable to use. Ive always been told that GT5 is amazing on a wheel, but never owned a PS3 compatible wheel. GT6 I am passing on, I am holding off on GT till the PS4 version; I want to see if PD will ditch all their current 3d assets and start from scratch like T10 have. On the pc I currently play Pcars, Assetto corsa, I racing (ect, list can get pretty long). I will play pretty much any racing game, whether a sim or arcade, as long as I find it fun. FM5 is definatly on par with I racing on a wheel (in my opinion), and the F458 handles almost identically in Assetto corsa (a bit nicer to drive in Assetto).

 

[Wolfe]

He's gotta have normal steering on. I find normal steering corrects you when losing it...Sim steering on the other hand...

That excuse is often made about FM4, when there's not actually a difference in "drift friendliness" apart from Simulation being hideously twitchy and quick to respond to inputs. In a wide open area like the Top Gear Test Track, you can drift with aplomb on Simulation steering, because overcorrecting -- which really stems from the combination of hyperactive steering and the game's wacky super-corrective countersteer -- won't send you into a guardrail or gravel trap. The physics work the same.

So I'm curious whether there's actually a distinct "corrective force" in FM5 on Normal Steering, or if it's similar to FM4 where Simulation just makes things difficult for no good reason.

 

[Speedster911]

Wolfe, I'm not going to spark an old debate here, but just going to say this:

SIM steering in FM4 simply forces you to use more intricate and precise corrections to keep the car going without pushing it too much over the edge. Most of these cars bite back really hard IRL when you get funny ideas.

Here's a tip though: have you tried keeping motion effects off? Switch them off, and see how natural steering and turn angle feels (it's the cam perspective and FOV - looks more natural).

All in all, this talk about FM5 physics is really getting me worked up. Maybe I'll pick me up an XBONE later this year; here's hoping I can.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Wolfe, I'm not going to spark an old debate here, but just going to say this:

SIM steering in FM4 simply forces you to use more intricate and precise corrections to keep the car going without pushing it too much over the edge. Most of these cars bite back really hard IRL when you get funny ideas.

Here's a tip though: have you tried keeping motion effects off? Switch them off, and see how natural steering and turn angle feels (it's the cam perspective and FOV - looks more natural).

All in all, this talk about FM5 physics is really getting me worked up. Maybe I'll pick me up an XBONE later this year; here's hoping I can.

Titanfall bundle is a awesome deal and they just released a updated that fixed a lot of the problems the system has had since launch. Gamestop also started a layaway program where you can pay over time too.

 

[Wolfe]

SIM steering in FM4 simply forces you to use more intricate and precise corrections to keep the car going without pushing it too much over the edge. Most of these cars bite back really hard IRL when you get funny ideas.

And in FM4, those cars only bite you with Simulation Steering because the countersteer component of the input logic dials in a lot of opposite lock quickly, which may cause you to overcorrect. You're right, all Simulation Steering does is force you to use more intricate and precise inputs.

What bugs me is how everyone presumes it enables some special "expert" handling simply because it's called "Simulation Steering." In FM4 and Horizon, it doesn't make the physics engine more hardcore. The physics don't change. On a controller, the only difference is the profile used for input filtering (which is still present).

 

[FordGTGuy]

And in FM4, those cars only bite you with Simulation Steering because the countersteer component of the input logic dials in a lot of opposite lock quickly, which may cause you to overcorrect. You're right, all Simulation Steering does is force you to use more intricate and precise inputs.

What bugs me is how everyone presumes it enables some special "expert" handling simply because it's called "Simulation Steering." In FM4 and Horizon, it doesn't make the physics engine more hardcore. The physics don't change. On a controller, the only difference is the profile used for input filtering (which is still present).

I'm pretty sure that's why they call it "simulation steering" and not simulation physics.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm pretty sure that's why they call it "simulation steering" and not simulation physics.

And what exactly is it simulating? It just counter steers way to fast to be able to get anything done correctly when using a pad.

 

[Tornado]

I'm pretty sure that's why they call it "simulation steering" and not simulation physics.

So what's the difference?

 

[FordGTGuy]

And what exactly is it simulating? It just counter steers way to fast to be able to get anything done correctly when using a pad.

In the context simulation is being used for saying the steering is what they consider more realistic.

There's a difference?

Between what?

Calling something simulation steering and simulation physics?

There is a big difference in this context.

Physics implies that it is changing how the actual physics engine acts in situations while steering implies that they are changing how the vehicle steers in that physics engine using the controller.

 

[Tornado]

I'm pretty sure "Simulation Steering" as the option is presented in Forza 4 just implies that the vehicle steers more realistically.



How it does that is another matter entirely; as is whether it's actually "simulating" anything differently (nevermind more realistically); as is whether or not people actually recognize what it is really doing as opposed to what they think it is doing (that last bit being why Wolfe brought it up). I could check, and maybe it says something different in Forza 5, but I really doubt the option information says "adjusts steering input filters to be more direct" or anything to the effect of really describing anything.

 

[FordGTGuy]

There's a difference?

I'm pretty sure "Simulation Steering" as the option is presented in Forza 4 just implies that the vehicle steers more realistically.



How it does that is another matter entirely; as is whether it's actually "simulating" anything differently (nevermind more realistically); as is whether or not people actually recognize what it is really doing as opposed to what they think it is doing (that last bit being why Wolfe brought it up). I could check, and maybe it says something different in Forza 5, but I really doubt the option information says "adjusts steering input filters to be more direct" or anything to the effect of really describing anything.

It isn't simulating anything differently, the system they use allows them to put layers of assists to help out drivers and using simulation steering helps to de-active some of these assists. Forza always uses the same physics engine no matter what the condition or assists but assists will change the way your car and your controls interact with that physics engine.

 

[Tornado]

So that thing Wolfe said in the first place, which I explained why he said it. Thanks.

 

[FordGTGuy]

So that thing Wolfe said in the first place and I explained why he said it, then. Thanks.

Uh ok.... I'm not sure why you're trying to start a argument as I never disagreed with you.

All I said is that they call it simulation steering and not simulation physics for a reason...

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Right, yeah..well, for the "best" experience I'd recommend leaving SIM steering on as it forces you to rely more on precision driving as opposed to flicking the stick to get around corners. And I believe, you get to "feel" the car better with weight transfer as well as oversteer/understeer transitions.

 

[Bopop4]

Got to play with FM5 for a few hours the other day, kind of disappointed.

The graphics were nice, so was the RB26 in an S15, but that's where it ended.

The brakes are way too touchy now, and the car feels like it's sliding on ice.
The engine sounds are also worse than 4, not sure why that is, but they sound more synthesized.

The lack of cars was also a big minus, so was the lack of Suzuka and Tsukuba.

I'm going to stick with 4, much more fun when a stock Miata doesn't try to buck around when you trail brake.

 

[HAL20XX]

I wish I could see gameplay footage from everyone who says it's like the cars are on ice. Anyone who has put in more than a few hours never says that's how they handle.

 

[Bopop4]

I wish I could see gameplay footage from everyone who says it's like the cars are on ice.

Why?

First flying lap of a rivals I got in the top few percent on the leaderboard, and the "unbeatable" difficulty is still fairly easy to beat. (I only say "fairly easy" because I did a bunch or races in a Miata with nothing but a V8 swap, so with a car that's actually tuned properly it should be much easier.)

 

[HAL20XX]

Because of the second sentence that I wrote. It likely has more to do with driving style than anything else.

 

[Bopop4]

Because of the second sentence that I wrote. It likely has more to do with driving style than anything else.

Go in fast, come out fast.

It's nothing to do with "style", it's about how the car doesn't feel planted.

The rumble triggers try to mask that by giving feedback, but it's hollow feedback when it covers up an actual lack of feel.

 

[HAL20XX]

So let me make sure I have this right. You dropped a V8 in a Miata and didn't tune the suspension?

And it has a lot to do with style. Driving line. Throttle control. Steering finess. Braking points. Where did you get back on the gas?

 

[Bopop4]

So let me make sure I have this right. You dropped a V8 in a Miata and didn't tune the suspension?

Didn't do anything else, just a quick way to get it near the top of C class.
Difficult to drive, but could still win the races.

And it has a lot to do with style. Driving line. Throttle control. Steering finess. Braking points. Where did you get back on the gas?

This is going to be different for every car at every track.

I know how to drive in Forza, best standing was a 39th in a Forza 4 B class Open time attack rivals.

 

[HAL20XX]

A lot of people know how to drive in Forza and also realized that it takes some time to adjust to FM5. I just see people doing themselves a disservice by writing the game off so quickly without getting used to it. I have hundreds of hours into previous Forzas, and it still took me a few weeks to totally adjust to FM5. There's a lot of memory muscle from previous games that needs to be retrained.

 

[Bopop4]

5 feels more like Shift 2 than anything else. (Which is not a good thing.)

Going from 4 to 3, or 4 to GT, is easy, the controls are all nicely tuned.

The controls in 5 however, are not so nice. I noticed that I could move the trigger back slightly, and it still gave full readings. So as soon as you depressed it a little bit, the actual amount of throttle or brake shot up like you cut the trigger distance in half.

 

[HAL20XX]

5 feels more like Shift 2 than anything else. (Which is not a good thing.)

Going from 4 to 3, or 4 to GT, is easy, the controls are all nicely tuned.

The controls in 5 however, are not so nice. I noticed that I could move the trigger back slightly, and it still gave full readings. So as soon as you depressed it a little bit, the actual amount of throttle or brake shot up like you cut the trigger distance in half.

So, you change the deadzones. If that's how you had it setup, no wonder you're saying it felt bad.

 

[Chippy569]

One thing to consider might be the controller itself - I noticed between my two controllers one's throw on the triggers is much less than the other. Great for shooters, frustrating for forza.

 

[Bopop4]

So, you change the deadzones. If that's how you had it setup, no wonder you're saying it felt bad.

The deadzones on the controller?
(I only thought you could do that on a wheel.)


They should already be set up properly, it was on all the other Forzas.

 

[HAL20XX]

Yep, on the controller. Throttle, steering, brakes. By default, each button doesn't start doing anything until 10% - 20% input. I set mine to 0% on each end and the level of control is much more fluid.