Forza 6 Demo Sept 1
- Thread starter thomasw
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- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
Unless both my wheels are damage, from that game
Forza is designed to detect wheels (since FM3) but theres no typical calibration, more adjustments than basic: deadzone + FF + vibration, no bindings just few presets, no automatic DOR etc.
You're the only person I know that would say Forza with a wheel is exactly the same as a controller. Just because the adjustments are on the basic side doesn't mean that the feel of the wheel is nothing more than what a controller gives you.
There is a reason I've spent $900 on my setup(Wheel, shifter, pedals & cockpit.) and it isn't just to feel the controller through a wheel.
- 1,637
- Melbourne
One of the things I like about Forza and even F1 20xx series is how simple it is to set up the wheel and adjust the force feedback. It works great out of the bat. With pCARS I have about 20 sliders, out of the box it works awful. Now I don't even know how to set it up with all those sliders, I tried but it still stinks. Somehow I think I made it even worse.
I prefer for the developers to actually fine tune these things themselves so us consumers don't have to go and fiddle with all these settings. Actually having more options is good but there's also having way too many options up to point where it just gets too confusing and you never end up with anything remotely good.
By the way if anyone has a good setting for the TX on pCARS could you please send it to me?
I prefer for the developers to actually fine tune these things themselves so us consumers don't have to go and fiddle with all these settings. Actually having more options is good but there's also having way too many options up to point where it just gets too confusing and you never end up with anything remotely good.
By the way if anyone has a good setting for the TX on pCARS could you please send it to me?
- 874
- United Kingdom
I've been drifting since the release of FM4, with a few instances of messing around in previous iterations of Forza and GT. Plus I drift in Assetto Corsa on the PC. Its what I do when I want to blow of steam.
This is me drifting in FM5 on the ring in my drift tuned 240sx with the thtustmaster TX wheel set to 900°. I was using manual with clutch and the paddle shifters, as the T3PA pedal set and shifter wasnt released at the time I had a working wheel.
And this is me drifting in FM5 on a controller with my drift tuned AE86. Again with manual with clutch.
And this is me drifting the same drift tuned AE86 with the same wheel setup as the 240sx video above.
The grip in Forza is fairly progressive, which provides some very good slip angles. If there wasn't, then there is no way I would be able to drift like that in the game with. Nor would any forza drifter for that matter. Wouldn't matter if I was using a wheel set to 900°, or a control pad.
Racing and drifting on a wheel in forza is miles better than driving with a controller though, even with the force feedback deadzone at the wheels center. But that is just a personal opinion on my part. There are people who feel it is better to drive in Forza with a pad, and that is their personal opinion. When it comes to racing games, there is no right or wrong controller input.
I will admit there is less feedback in the control pad compared to the wheel however, as it is only rumble. But most of the things we pick up on in racing games are visual and audio cues anyway, hence why people can play racing games in the first place. Even when using a wheel, we all still go more from the visual cues than we do any feedback. even though we do have more physical cues when using a wheel. In reality though, it doesn't matter what device a person uses in any racing game. There are some pretty quick drivers using a 360 controller on the likes of iracing, just like there are some pretty good drivers in Forza who use only a wheel.
There are things that T10 need to work on in regards to force feedback however, and hopefully they will work on those in future iterations of the series. But the actual driving physics are not too bad, and it is easy to see that there have been pretty big improvements in this regard. But because Forza is a console racing game, it will always have a greater focus on control with a control pad over a wheel. And rightly so, because wheel users are firmly in the minority when it comes to a games consoles.
the vents are turning.
- 64
- New Zealand
- 4,373
I wanted a closer look at the puddles so I stopped on one with chase cam and they are completely flat... I ruined the illusion for myself
The pulling effect they have is still brilliant though but it's kinda bs to call them "3D".
Yeap, I too call bollocks on the supposed 3D puddle thing... while they do have an effect on the car, which is brilliant, physically, they don't even send water spraying around the car as it should IRL, neither do you see the car's tires actually reacting with the puddles, graphically. It's just a sound you hear and change in physics you experience, that's it.
Still a good start, and we'll eventually improvements in future Forzas. They always make improvements in terms of graphics as well as audio and physics; they have a good track record that speaks for itself.
I too detected right away how colliding with cars do not have the consequences you were dealing with in F5. This has been toned down... even the crash sounds are a generic thud sound.. which doesn't really feel like you're making contact with another car.
Crashes in Fm5 upset your car's balance depending on several factors such as speed, angle, weight.. how you react etc. It feels toned down in FM6.
Well, driving on a gamepad would not be an aweful experience if T10 simply take the initiative of removing speed sensitive steering and ALL other aids from pad steering and introduce an option that simply allow players to control steering speed or sensitivity. If you want to go lock to lock faster like a race car, select your steering rack ratio. If you want to turn slowly with more degrees of movement like a muscle car or road car, choose your setting.
I have a feeling they've deliberately kept these aids on controllers to coax more people to buy wheels just for Forza. I would not be surprised if they have a collateral going on with one of the wheel manufacturers to enjoy royalties and whatnot.
First of all, you have some sick drifting skills 👍
Imagine how much fun you're going to have watching your replays in Fm6 - they've improved the tire smoke, though it doesn't really hover around for a bit like it does in F5. Still, a marked improvement and actually looks convincing now as opposed to the track farting up puffs of smoke a second later.
For me also, Forza is the go-to game for blowing off steam, though with precision driving.
I also believe Forza is one of those games where control on the pad translates very well and gives you an accurate sense of the physics. There are several progressive levels of losing grip and gaining traction which makes it such a satisfying experience and also help you "fee" the car.
Though I imagine a wheel just takes things to a new level. Motor on!
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
If you're struggling with ffb in PCars look here http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-FilesOne of the things I like about Forza and even F1 20xx series is how simple it is to set up the wheel and adjust the force feedback. It works great out of the bat. With pCARS I have about 20 sliders, out of the box it works awful. Now I don't even know how to set it up with all those sliders, I tried but it still stinks. Somehow I think I made it even worse.
I prefer for the developers to actually fine tune these things themselves so us consumers don't have to go and fiddle with all these settings. Actually having more options is good but there's also having way too many options up to point where it just gets too confusing and you never end up with anything remotely good.
By the way if anyone has a good setting for the TX on pCARS could you please send it to me?
Jack has done all the leg work for us and found some excellent ffb settings for each individual car. It's a long thread but worth a read as there is some excellent information in there, first post is the important bit. The files he provides are for the PC but some kind soul has translated his files into a spreadsheet for console users to input themselves. They really do make the ffb come alive in PCars.
And I agree with both ways of doing it. The pick up and play nature of Forza is fantastic for those less concerned about the intricacies of the ffb, the downside being not able to tweak as much. I also think the tweakability of the PCars method is fantastic and really lets you dial in the ffb to your liking, the downside being it's overly complicated and unless you have a good samaritan like Jack it can be very daunting.
- 679
- mrPetros
3d = three dimensional = length, width and depth.
and puddles, they are 3d, since its evident that each puddle has a depth property, given that if you go through the middle of a big puddle car behavior is more -and differently- affected than if you just go through the sides
so, 3d puddles, its legit and correct
about car to car loss of friction, I say again, I 100% understand why this happened, I've been racing online for 2 years seeing the majority of people loosing it.
they cannot handle it, so I understand why t10 made adjustment.
what I wish is a user-selectable mode where absolutely no hand holding happens, and they put their math and data as raw output, without any ...helping intervention.
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- 12,870
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
I've finally had some time to play the demo all the way through and I particularly enjoyed the wet weather race! The way the car pulls to the side as you go through puddles felt realistic but controllable if you pre-empt them, just like in a real car. I would like to see a bit less aquaplaning than there is currently though, if you hit a puddle mid corner in the demo you are guaranteed to aquaplane regardless of what the car is doing. Or at least that's how it felt.
The only bad thing I've found about the demo is that it suffers from the same issue as Horizon 2 does; unskippable dialogue is absolutely horrible in a racing game. I know how the game works, I've played every single one of them. Can't they set a simple flag to look out for Forza 5 data and adjust accordingly? I don't need to be told how prize spins work, I used them in Horizon 2. I don't need to be told how races work because I've played Forza 5. ARGH!
The only bad thing I've found about the demo is that it suffers from the same issue as Horizon 2 does; unskippable dialogue is absolutely horrible in a racing game. I know how the game works, I've played every single one of them. Can't they set a simple flag to look out for Forza 5 data and adjust accordingly? I don't need to be told how prize spins work, I used them in Horizon 2. I don't need to be told how races work because I've played Forza 5. ARGH!
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
The wet weather does at a lot to improve the game. I'd prefer it if away from the puddles it was a little more slippy, still feels pretty grippy. And I still maintain that those huge lakes across the track are not needed, the puddles themselves have such a dramatic effect on the cars handling that smaller, more realistic puddles in terms of what you would see in a real life race, would have been absolutely fine as they would affect the racing just as much.
- 679
- mrPetros
but for the puddle placement and size, they stated that they visited each location and took very detailed data & pics of placement, size etc
I dont live anywhere close to sebring to be able to know/compare to the demo, but I'm pretty sure that as summer leaves and rains start, we will have nice comparison pics and see if t10's statements about their technique for puddle placement holds.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Believe me I have no doubt that the real life pics will show puddles in the exact same place as in game. However, I also guarantee that if the real life circuit had puddles of that size no racing would take place. It's just T10 showing of their new feature in an over the top way. It's something they always have done and I just wish they would realise they don't need to, normal sized puddles would have been just as good. Less is more sometimes.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Hard to tell from those vids but I can say that the second vid is the most ludicrous driving conditions I have ever seen. Those Skip Barber guys are crazy!! Some huge puddles on the inside of the corners but I didn't see any huge puddles covering the whole width of the track but it was tough to tell with the atrocious conditions. One thing it did show was just how slippery it was on the whole track, the guy was constantly making small steering corrections to stop from spinning. Would be impossible to implement in a game as we just don't get the feedback through the seat to be able to react to the constant moving around of the back end.
Maybe it would be good if they had been able to implement a few different wet conditions, say, greasy, normal and monsoon.
- 679
- mrPetros
IMO t10 did a very good first step for water simulation on track I must say (best I've seen), even though I hate driving fast on rain with a passion
the physics are good, the 3d nature of pools is there, and I would bet that unless community totally rejects the idea, they will finetune it even more in the future.
about what you say for different wet conditions, one big problem I see is that it would totally **** up the leaderboards.
you have a solution around that?
they way they fixed it (here's your night, here's your rain, same for all) works PERFECTLY for leadeboards, while it is enough of a game changer for lobbies.
a more ...dynamic nature would **** it up for sure, and I dont want that
the physics are good, the 3d nature of pools is there, and I would bet that unless community totally rejects the idea, they will finetune it even more in the future.
about what you say for different wet conditions, one big problem I see is that it would totally **** up the leaderboards.
you have a solution around that?
they way they fixed it (here's your night, here's your rain, same for all) works PERFECTLY for leadeboards, while it is enough of a game changer for lobbies.
a more ...dynamic nature would **** it up for sure, and I dont want that
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Very good point about leaderboards. I wonder if that means we will never see true dynamic weather in a Forza game as that would truly mess with the leaderboards.IMO t10 did a very good first step for water simulation on track I must say (best I've seen), even though I hate driving fast on rain with a passion
the physics are good, the 3d nature of pools is there, and I would bet that unless community totally rejects the idea, they will finetune it even more in the future.
about what you say for different wet conditions, one big problem I see is that it would totally **** up the leaderboards.
you have a solution around that?
they way they fixed it (here's your night, here's your rain, same for all) works PERFECTLY for leadeboards, while it is enough of a game changer for lobbies.
a more ...dynamic nature would **** it up for sure, and I dont want that
- 4,373
A little grippy for a wet race, or is it the wet tires working their magic? 
- 874
- United Kingdom
As good as that could be, it could also have the effect of scaring of more of the casual players who just want to pick up and play. Hell, even I just want to pick up and play and when comes to forza. I wouldn't say that driving with a control pad in Forza is an awful experience either. And the only times I have issues with understeer or oversteer, are when I go too hot into a corner, or throttle on to hard and too early. Besides that though, no problems here at all. If you want to see what I am actually capable off in Forza with the default controller, then check out this thread.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...oard-weekly-challenge-04-ferrari-enzo.331949/
I have been participating in a friendly hotlap competition using unmodified/untuned cars around the ring. Keep in mind that at the moment I am only using the default X1 controller, not a wheel. As at the moment I do not have an xbox one compatible wheel.
Similarly, you could just check out the videos I have going back to FM4 on my youtube channel.
Still, I don't understand why you keep saying that driving on a control pad is so bad. Forza has the best controls on a gamepad out of any sim based racing game, and always has. The speed sensitive steering only comes into effect at speed anyway, and if you are so bothered about any hidden assists on the controller. Then just use Sim steering, or go and buy an xbox one compatible wheel. You will find it wont change things much though, even if you do have a wheel. If you go into a corner too fast, then you will still understeer; no matter how much you turn the wheel. If you are using a RWD car and put the throttle on too hard and too early, then you are still going to break the rear end loose. These two things do not change between a wheel and a control pad, as they are both using the exact same physics engine. Neither control device is a god mode. Not only that, but having a wheel set to 900° doesn't mean you have to turn the wheel more than 90° left or right in 97% of corners in game. With only the tightest hairpins needing more turning than that, or while correcting a huge mistake. Which is very close to real life in this regard, and is exactly the same on the likes of Assetto Corsa.
Just take a look at this real life run on the green hell in a BMW M3 GTS, and you will be able to see what I mean.
With the road cars in Assetto while using 900° with my G27, I never ever have to turn anymore than the person driving that real BMW M3 is. And this is exactly the same in forza while using a wheel set to 900° in a road car. The only thing that Forza needs to do, is to soft lock the wheel to the rotation that the race cars use. This automatically reduces the wheels degrees of rotation from 900° to the amount that is used by that car in real life. Such as say 360° for an F1 type car, or say 540° for a GT series car. If you are again going from the cockpit steering wheel animation within forza, then this is why you keep bringing up these issues. That steering wheel animation is arbitrary at best, as the telemetry shows a different story when a wheel set to 900° is in use.
As for the steering racks and ratios in the cars, just because there isn't an option to adjust these via the tuning setups menu, doesn't mean that T10 isn't adding a cars real life steering information into the game. It just means that we don't have the option to change those things in the tuning menus. Whether T10 will elaborate on this, or give us the option to change them in a future Forza game is guess work at best, and all we can do is speculate on this particular aspect of the game. Fact of the matter is, we just do not know what T10 is doing in that regard. But with how detailed T10 like to make the cars in Forza, I would be very surprised if they are not using the real world steering information for each car in the game. An accurate in game steering wheel animation could shed some light on this aspect, so I will grant you that. If the steering ratios for each and every car is modeled, then the in car steering wheel animation on something like the yellowbird in FM5, would show that there is more steering available than a 900° wheel is capable off. As the steering in a yellowbird is easily over 1000° of total steering wheel rotation. In assetto this is easy to see because of the steering wheel animation. Assetto will limit the steering based on the degrees of rotation that the persons wheel is capable off though (the animation can be locked to a separate rotational amount than the actual degrees of steering however, even turned off completely, or remove the wheel entirely). So if you have one that is 270°, then that is all the game will use. If you have one that is 1080° like the T300 or the T500RS, then that is what the game will use. Unless the steering rotation in a particular car is lower, such as in the Lotus Exos T125, in which case a wheel soft lock will be put into place. Reducing the wheels degrees of rotation. But even that can be turned off in a wheels independent profiling software.
So as you can see, things my not be what they seem. Will would only know for certain though, if T10 decide to elaborate more on things. But for me, I am just going to enjoy forza for what it is. A very good and fun racing game, that I can also mess around in.
Also, Speedster. This is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen you come out with on this forum. If you truly believe that, then you should know that most of the top 10 leaderboard runners in forza are using the default xbox one controller. And this was the same in Forza's of the past, including your own personal holy grail of FM4.
- 218
My experience of the demo... well, i'll put it this way, to those who didn't like being continually asked to buy the game i didn't help your cause as i bought the ultimate edition right off the end of the demo. Rain is over done, puddles are heavy duty but it's nice to finally see it, did love how putting a wheel off on the waterlogged grass meant pretty much instant death haha. I play on the pad and have always loved how forza managed to translate the feel and movement of a hard pushed car through such a simple handheld device. Fm6 to me is another step on, can't comment on wheels but for the casual gamer in me it's the ultimate pick up and play semi simulator about. Graphics are great, beautiful and the ultimate smoothness is simply gorgeous. You could argue that sitting still and looking about throws up a few uglies, but it's supposed to be sliding by at 100mph, where the slick framerate and HD fidelity make it look just awesome.
- 874
- United Kingdom
I wouldn't personally say that having dynamic ToD and weather would mess with the leader boards, as T10 have the monthly rivals anyway. Plus they would be able to set up a rivals board set to day only, night only, and in torrential rain independently on their end. Much in the same way as their new "mods" system will not have any effect on the LB, as any time set in career with them, is automatically labeled as a dirty lap by the game.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
I think it would be a welcome addition. I had a 20 lap MP race last night in PCars around Snetterton 300 in the GT3 class and the changeable weather made such a difference. Was wet in practice and then started to dry up through quail so people were diving into the pits at the last minute to change to slicks to set a quick time. Then in the warm up the weather forecast changed to light rain. Some people decided to start on inters, some slicks, we all had to make two pit stop strategies for the race as didn't know what the weather would do. The race started dry so those of us on slicks pulled a lead but then the rain came and we had to pit allowing those on inters to overtake us. By the last 5 laps the guys who started on inters were finding their tyres starting to wear and overheating meaning they were really struggling to maintain control. It was an awesome race and it was the changeable weather that really made it.
I'd love to see it in Forza. Here's hoping. And by the way is it Thursday yet!!
- 4,373
When did I say control is 'so bad'? A member made a comment on not being satisfied with the controller, and I pointed out to him/her that maybe there should be additional options to make control more modifiable on a controller and give people more control over teh car's handling characteristics, as is the case with a wheel.
I think you need to check my past posts; not once have I criticized control on the pad; I love it and have been on a pad since FM2. In fact, I've been a big advocate of SIM steering, recommending it to anyone I can, while recommending the standard 0/100 deads to get the most from it. If it were so bad for me, like you pointed out, I'd be the first one rushing out to get a wheel. Research a bit better next time and best not to put words in people's mouths.
Leaderboards or not, that doesn't change the fact Microsoft might want a particular kind of gamer to choose a particular kind of wheel over the standard controller. Since FM3, we've had speed sensitive steering and a cap that limits on how much you can push the car.. this assist is something that the gamer should be able to turn off, in order to make the game more nuanced - if I want to negotiate a hairpin at 65 kph instead of 40, the game should let me steer as much as I want, and bear with the outcome.
People using a controller online does not say anything about how many are buying wheels or want to use a wheel; a controller is simply faster and the learning curve is probably nowhere close to as steep as it probably is on a wheel, hence, people dive right in with a controller. Much the same as they use man/w/clutch on a controller, saying it gives them faster shifting. Anyway, this is a never-ending debate, moving on...
I think you have this backwards - I do not mind pad control in Forza at all... (you should check who's post I quoted and replied to) it translates perfectly well according to how you want the car to behave... though the cap on steering is not necessary. If SIM gives you unassisted countersteering, it should also give you full control over regular steering.
I will sift through the rest of your response and revert back if need be.
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