Forza Horizon 4: General Discussion
- Thread starter PJTierney
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- 1,456
That looks like an algorithm removed them. I doubt a person would be so blind to not be able to tell the difference between a Scottish flag and a Confederate one.
Regardless, any flag or symbol that has more than one widely recognized meaning to it, especially if there are other positive, widely recognized meanings for said flag/symbol, should not be removed or censored in the context of Forza liveries. This is because, unless there are other explicitly hateful messages in the livery, there is no way to know the intentions of the creator behind its use. In that case, the benefit of the doubt should be given until said user gives more insight, through his behavior/other designs for example, of the messaging they are trying to propagate. Only then, if appropriate, a ban of them/their content should be issued.
What about this being deemed offensive...
https://forums.forzamotorsport.net/turn10_postst162853_offensive.aspx
https://forums.forzamotorsport.net/turn10_postst162853_offensive.aspx
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- Italy
- Ant_U_Meglio
If I have to be totally honest, this politically correct being where anything that can lead to racism or violence is starting to be out of control.
If a person does not accept something or simply thinks otherwise, it is not fair to force to think to be accepted by force.. In this case I think it is incredibly stupid to ban users for inserting a flag in their livery, especially when there are some cars such as Ferraris that may have stripes with the theme of the Italian flag .. or the well-known Mini Cooper that can have the English flag on the roof.
We will just miss the behavior of the people who remove the Pagani Huayra livery, complete with a carpet search for those who simply did not love the livery and want to bring it back as it had left the factory and then ban them all.
*Sorry for my bad english*
If a person does not accept something or simply thinks otherwise, it is not fair to force to think to be accepted by force.. In this case I think it is incredibly stupid to ban users for inserting a flag in their livery, especially when there are some cars such as Ferraris that may have stripes with the theme of the Italian flag .. or the well-known Mini Cooper that can have the English flag on the roof.
We will just miss the behavior of the people who remove the Pagani Huayra livery, complete with a carpet search for those who simply did not love the livery and want to bring it back as it had left the factory and then ban them all.
*Sorry for my bad english*
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- 376
- United States
I mean, every flag can be problematic if you look at it as a symbol of imperialism and colonialism, like some people might do with the aforementioned Italian tricolore or Union Jack if you take things to their most extreme conclusion. And others are a bit more gray area -- I'm not a resident of England but I've gotten the impression that the St. George's Cross flag, while still sometimes used as visual shorthand in sports, is also fairly popular as a English nationalist symbol.
But the Confederate flag is a lot less ambiguous. I get wanting to have Southern pride, since it's traditionally been a region that's been looked down upon for a number of complicated reasons that have just as much to do with class resentment as it does the Civil War. But it's a symbol so entwined with white supremacy that it's hard to see as just representing regional devotion, especially since you can see people flying the flag or putting it on their trucks even in states that were on the Union's side (or didn't even exist yet before the Civil War).
Here's an idea: the General Lee, but rename it after your favorite SEC college football coach and put the team's flag on the roof. That could be Southern pride.
But the Confederate flag is a lot less ambiguous. I get wanting to have Southern pride, since it's traditionally been a region that's been looked down upon for a number of complicated reasons that have just as much to do with class resentment as it does the Civil War. But it's a symbol so entwined with white supremacy that it's hard to see as just representing regional devotion, especially since you can see people flying the flag or putting it on their trucks even in states that were on the Union's side (or didn't even exist yet before the Civil War).
Here's an idea: the General Lee, but rename it after your favorite SEC college football coach and put the team's flag on the roof. That could be Southern pride.
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General Grant is better, just saw this on Jalopnik, never heard of it before.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0016/6887/4292/products/P094_1200x1200.jpg?v=1571726849
I think Liberty Walk should be clarified, alot of the designs have the Rising Sun on it, I'm sure gamers think nothing of it. Should we delete those off our cars?
Most LB designers make this popular design: https://i.redd.it/e51hv4jsbdp31.png
The removal of the SS badges still to this day is bonkers while other games still have it. Turn 10 taking fake offense on something that's not offensive is non-nonsensical damage control.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0016/6887/4292/products/P094_1200x1200.jpg?v=1571726849
I think Liberty Walk should be clarified, alot of the designs have the Rising Sun on it, I'm sure gamers think nothing of it. Should we delete those off our cars?
Most LB designers make this popular design: https://i.redd.it/e51hv4jsbdp31.png
The removal of the SS badges still to this day is bonkers while other games still have it. Turn 10 taking fake offense on something that's not offensive is non-nonsensical damage control.
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- 667
True. According to LB's own website, lots of their designs still have that same Sun design.
Guess Playground/Turn 10 will have to cut ties with them. http://lb-store.com/products/list?category_id=91
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- United States
- Jake-Racer1221
Then what about those Bozozuku liveries, since I know some people like those types of cars. I'm sure as Gamers and inserting politics into it will just cause blacklash to an extent. It's the context of the livery, not just one sticker. And as for the General Lee thing, since it's a movie car and people wanna get inspired it should be people's right to do so. This is going too overboard since a lot of these designs come from the original Forza Motorsport. So, why now?
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I would assume it would be quite self evident why it's a problem that Gamers™ don't recognize/care that Japan has spent the past 70 years glorifying/normalizing the flag they flew while they were committing mass genocide over the ten years prior to when WWII ended, but I guess not:
Just because Japan had a much better PR team than Nazi Germany and America dropped atomic bombs on them to get them to stop and feel bad about it since doesn't mean Japan didn't do it.
Yes I am. What do you think that changes? Do you think the countries that aren't okay with how flippantly modern Japan uses the IJN/IJA flag are perfectly fine with how Japan tweaked it slightly and then just started using it again as soon as the American occupying government left?
"It's a slightly different color red. I don't see how people could possibly associate it with the IJN flag, even on imagery that is offset exactly like the IJN flag was; when it's actually only a representation of a different flag that's directly referencing the IJN flag."
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@Tornado
The history of most, if not all, countries in the world is like a rosebush: there are beautiful flowers, with soft petals, but also thorns. Japan is no different. Who they are today is a blend of the good and the bad in their past. I'm sure they wish they could have reached the point they are today without going through those events but, since time-travel isn't possible, they can't go back and undo what they did. And even if they could, there's no guarantee that the alternate history of them not committing what they committed would have led to a better future for themselves, they've just, like any mature person, accepted their past, respected it and moved on. The only thing worth taking, with you, of the past, are lessons learned. The rest, like the resentment, just burn it.
The fact that they use a very similar, but still different, banner to what they used to have, shows exactly that mentality. They are aware of the bad, which is why they changed it, to a degree, but they also accept their heritage, believe in their country, in their people and that they can be good, that they can be redeemed, that they've learned the lessons and are moving forward, without forgetting where they came from. A banner stained can be cleaned by good deeds that give it new meaning as, ultimately, a banner's appearance matters little compared to how it's flown.
The history of most, if not all, countries in the world is like a rosebush: there are beautiful flowers, with soft petals, but also thorns. Japan is no different. Who they are today is a blend of the good and the bad in their past. I'm sure they wish they could have reached the point they are today without going through those events but, since time-travel isn't possible, they can't go back and undo what they did. And even if they could, there's no guarantee that the alternate history of them not committing what they committed would have led to a better future for themselves, they've just, like any mature person, accepted their past, respected it and moved on. The only thing worth taking, with you, of the past, are lessons learned. The rest, like the resentment, just burn it.
The fact that they use a very similar, but still different, banner to what they used to have, shows exactly that mentality. They are aware of the bad, which is why they changed it, to a degree, but they also accept their heritage, believe in their country, in their people and that they can be good, that they can be redeemed, that they've learned the lessons and are moving forward, without forgetting where they came from. A banner stained can be cleaned by good deeds that give it new meaning as, ultimately, a banner's appearance matters little compared to how it's flown.
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- Denmark
And this issue even goes beyond flags. Just look at a typical world map and notice how imperialism and colonialism has established the norm that Europe is positioned in the center, and how the wealthiest hemisphere through centuries is positioned at the top. It has little to do with geography, but everything to do with the thought processes behind imperialism and colonialism. This is a point I read in an academic article years ago. Not some random idea I’m making up.
The FH4 discussion is drifting off-topic into politics again, but perhaps game developers and other influential institutions should try not to get carried away. Fair enough they are taking a stance, but our pandemic-crippled planet could really use a break from all these boiling-point debates currently being fuelled from virtually every angle. Intentions may be good, but timing is bad with civilization heading down a troubled path. Personally I need Forza as an escape, not a constant reminder that the world is flawed.
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- Japan
Now, let's change the topic to something a little more upbeat here.
An interesting find on reddit, the MR2 emblem has the Prius emblem on it The texture seems to have been applied incorrectly.
Is this evidence that they are remastering Prius?
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- Denmark
That emblem carries a strong resemblance to the Nazi bird, so it’s surprising it was included at all. Remember how Forza debadged several Chevrolet models and renamed them Super Sport.
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- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
Stream starting soon
- 25,120
- Somewhere.
Photo challenge reminds me of the Photo ops in the original Horizon, sounds fun.
Zenvo is probably the easiest car to get ever, just take a picture of any car in front of the festival Hub.
GT70, 85 RX7 and Escort Rally car also confirmed.
Zenvo is probably the easiest car to get ever, just take a picture of any car in front of the festival Hub.
GT70, 85 RX7 and Escort Rally car also confirmed.
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- United Kingdom
So glad the Zenvo is so easy to get and it's this week
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- Canada
That Ford Escort mk.2 Rally Car has to be a hint towards FM8 having rally/offroading. Make it happen T10! 
- 4,119
- Philippines
- GBalao888
- GBalao888
Turns out they censored the logo for British Airways on that Escort rally car, but more rally cars would mean that Motorsport 8 is sure to have rally racing.
Kind of want to get a crack at that Zenvo TSR-S with the weird wing, wonder if it's easy to obtain?
Kind of want to get a crack at that Zenvo TSR-S with the weird wing, wonder if it's easy to obtain?
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- Japan
Now, it appears that there are nearly 200 undisclosed cars in the FH4 development build.
Of course, these would include cars that are not available to us, such as traffic.
And then there's the "new" content that won't be added in the update, like the test data for FM8.
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