Forza Motorsport 2 Official !!

[Jeremy Ricci]

The only way, and I mean ONLY way that I think skid marks are even RELEVANT to simulation racing is if they effect the composition and interaction of the tires and the pavement. If the oil and rubber accumillation effect your ability to properly take a race line at higher speeds, then sure, throw them in, if they cannot achieve that, I could seriously care less, people just bicker because they will always find something wrong with a series.

Just like if Forza 2 doesn't have turn signals or something stupid, people will be up in arms. It's always something with some people.

 

[Sureboss]

The only motorsports that I can think off where it is used would be Drag Racing and sometimes the Motorbike races.

It wouldn't do much through a corner though would it?

This will certainly be a game I'll be getting.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

It does a lot if you're running through a high speed turn, look at nascar, the continued wear and tear on tires combined with constantly degrading road surfaces can put quite a strain on the driver mentally, as he has to constantly be aware of everything. I'm not a big fan of nascar, but it's a prime example.

Granted, in motorsports games like this, you're only doing 15 laps, not 500. But still.

I stand by the fact that I don't think it's a huge issue, it eats up resources and memory that could be better used on other things that have a greater impact on the game itself.

 

[Diab]

Locking up brakes, powering out of a corner too quick, leaving the pits, off the start line, drifting, drag racing, an accident etc... All these occur in the real world of racing and also incur skidmarks. I'm not looking got the way the original Forza did skidmarks ie whenever the car turned, I'm looking for more real life situational tire marks. Just denying it because it's GT is just narrow minded and if TDU have fairly decent tire sounds then GT5 must be able to get better than the screaming cat in a boiling pan we currently have.

I can't wait for GT5 but I also can't wait for Forza 2, Forza did so much better than GT but I played GT more due to the DFP and the FFB however if Forza had FFB and a decent wheel I can tell you it would've been a different story.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd agree with the criticisms of the GT series as it stands, as Forza kinda opened up the can that GT had been avoiding; Online racing and damage. Sound capture also seemed far more accurate in Forza comparably speaking, however I believe PGR2 and PGR3 continue to take top-honors in getting the sounds "right."

Nit-picks and quibbles aside, both games have a lot going for them. With the hardware of the PS3 backing up the programming expertise of the guys at PD does give the game a strong case against Forza, however, the questionable presence of online racing and full-customization that the guys at MGS introduced two years ago continue to fuel expectations for their title.

IMO, GT5 is one of the only games that would even slightly convince me to buy a PS3, and thus far, I'm not dying to get the game. Given that I already have a 360, Forza will be a must-buy, however I must agree that the inclusion of the wheel is questionable. I'm not certain on the $150 price tag, however if it does include Forza with the purchase, I may end up going for it... Of course, there are plenty of other things that I need to buy before that.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Locking up brakes, powering out of a corner too quick, leaving the pits, off the start line, drifting, drag racing, an accident etc... All these occur in the real world of racing and also incur skidmarks. I'm not looking got the way the original Forza did skidmarks ie whenever the car turned, I'm looking for more real life situational tire marks. Just denying it because it's GT is just narrow minded and if TDU have fairly decent tire sounds then GT5 must be able to get better than the screaming cat in a boiling pan we currently have.

I can't wait for GT5 but I also can't wait for Forza 2, Forza did so much better than GT but I played GT more due to the DFP and the FFB however if Forza had FFB and a decent wheel I can tell you it would've been a different story.

Umm...you do realize I'm not talking about GT in general right? I'm talking about all racers, for the most part. I'd rather that processing power and memory (because believe it or not, it takes memory to keep record of skid marks) be used on things like storing physics, better damage models (and the memory of what's been damaged) SOUNDS, etc.

Those are what I'm concerned about, not a skid mark. If a skid mark has no impact on the gameplay, then it does nothing for me, especially since I'm ALWAYS in the first person camera, and never even SEE what any skid marks would look like.

 

[DuckRacer]

Forza 2's shiny textures look more real then PGR3, but still PGR3 and Forza Motorsport 2 are outclassed by GT HD demo.

I think the problem with PGR3 and FM2 when it comes to graphics is that they're both trying to have super high resolution textures, shiny cars like you said, etc. And it all just looks cartoony. Now, GTHD also suffers from this too. 7-8/10 of the cars look like plastic (though the Ferrari, the rally car, and the Mitsu Evo looks completely photorealistic, absolutely mind blowing), so they have their work cut out for themselves too.

Those are what I'm concerned about, not a skid mark. If a skid mark has no impact on the gameplay, then it does nothing for me, especially since I'm ALWAYS in the first person camera, and never even SEE what any skid marks would look like.

Really? Unless you always do point-to-point races, you should be able to see skidmarks on your second lap.

Speaking of that, I do hope that the skidmarks in FM2 look a lot more realistic. On the original Forza, whenever you do the slightest of movements, it instantly released a big fat tire patch on the ground... totally unrealistic. PGR3 in my opinion aced it. When you do big drifts, you definitely see them, but if you normally push it, you still see the marks, but they're less noticeable and smaller.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Duck, would you really prefer that memory be wasted on silly tire marks just for cosmetic purposes, or be implemented to better sound and a wonderful damage model? Seriously.

 

[DuckRacer]

Duck, would you really prefer that memory be wasted on silly tire marks just for cosmetic purposes, or be implemented to better sound and a wonderful damage model? Seriously.

Sound and damage.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Thats my point. Producing skid marks from a 6-12 car grid (I think it was said that GT5 would have around that number?) for numerous laps would require a lot of memory, considering the size of the tracks and amount of cars. Especially if they are high speed turns etc, or times under heavy breaking to avoid hitting another car (because of the now present damage model).

Then you have to think, if you play online, that's even more strain. I'd honestly give up all the little nit picky BS for wonderful damage and hopefully better sound.

Would it be cool? Sure, I know a lot of people would think it's awesome. But would it be as cool as smashing your car into something else and seeing bits go flying everywehre? Definately not.

 

[Diab]

GTR, GTR2, GPL etc. seem to do it fine though. So I don't think it's entirely impossible to have amazing visuals, great physics, sound, tiremarks and of course real damage. I don't think you can use system power as an argument anymore to be honest.

 

[Pebb]

I think the problem with PGR3 and FM2 when it comes to graphics is that they're both trying to have super high resolution textures, shiny cars like you said, etc. And it all just looks cartoony. Now, GTHD also suffers from this too. 7-8/10 of the cars look like plastic (though the Ferrari, the rally car, and the Mitsu Evo looks completely photorealistic, absolutely mind blowing), so they have their work cut out for themselves too.

But if you have the correct photomode settings for PGR3, then you can make the cars look nearly real. However GT HD has more polygons then Forza Motorsport 2 and PGR3 by the looks of it.

 

[Vasco]

Duck, would you really prefer that memory be wasted on silly tire marks just for cosmetic purposes, or be implemented to better sound and a wonderful damage model? Seriously.

Well we shouldn't have to compromise in this era of 'next-gen', I like the small details in games. Is Forza coming out early this year or close to the end?

 

[Diab]

Is Forza coming out early this year or close to the end?

Should be before or in June so mid-year.

 

[vectradriver]

I'm in a similar situation to YSSMAN, GT5 is the only reason why I'd buy a PS3 and with at least 18 months wait, I'm not sure I'll be interested when I'm 23/24 anyway. I barely play 360 as it is, my PS2 is on more often than that.

 

[Pebb]

I'm in a similar situation to YSSMAN, GT5 is the only reason why I'd buy a PS3 and with at least 18 months wait, I'm not sure I'll be interested when I'm 23/24 anyway. I barely play 360 as it is, my PS2 is on more often than that.

No point buying a PlayStation 3 for just one game, because there are many more great games on it. However I still think Forza Motorsport 2 will come out next month or March.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Umm...you do realize I'm not talking about GT in general right? I'm talking about all racers, for the most part. I'd rather that processing power and memory (because believe it or not, it takes memory to keep record of skid marks) be used on things like storing physics, better damage models (and the memory of what's been damaged) SOUNDS, etc.

Those are what I'm concerned about, not a skid mark. If a skid mark has no impact on the gameplay, then it does nothing for me, especially since I'm ALWAYS in the first person camera, and never even SEE what any skid marks would look like.

Actually, skidmarks could be implemented to have an impact on gameplay. If they would do it realistically, the rubber put down in the asphalt, would be of some significance when driving on it. Especially if you are driving on slicks, then the more rubber the roadsurface contains, the better grip you would get.

This is however a small matter, when it comes to immersion. Sound and damage are far greater matters, just as you say.

 

[RedOak]

I think the problem with PGR3 and FM2 when it comes to graphics is that they're both trying to have super high resolution textures, shiny cars like you said, etc. And it all just looks cartoony. Now, GTHD also suffers from this too. 7-8/10 of the cars look like plastic (though the Ferrari, the rally car, and the Mitsu Evo looks completely photorealistic, absolutely mind blowing), so they have their work cut out for themselves too.

That's not really an issue of colors or high resolution graphics. Its simply the fact that the cars stay factory-new looking throughout the whole race. in GT3 and 4, the "shiny" effect would wear off after a couple of laps and it'd be better to "wash" your car in order to regain a few aerodynamic-related HPs.

The graphically speaking, all that's needed is for the cars to "eventually" get dirty. Then, the look would feel more realistic and less "cartoony" since this is how we're used to see cars in real-life races. Marks, dust, scratchs, burnmarks, shaking parts or bumper...

As for Skid Marks... its really not something that's hard to display or doesn't require a lot of memory (if done properly). Of course, there should be a limit... like bullet holes in games. They don't require that much memory, but you have to 'erase' them at one point.

 

[DuckRacer]

That's not really an issue of colors or high resolution graphics. Its simply the fact that the cars stay factory-new looking throughout the whole race. in GT3 and 4, the "shiny" effect would wear off after a couple of laps and it'd be better to "wash" your car in order to regain a few aerodynamic-related HPs.

The graphically speaking, all that's needed is for the cars to "eventually" get dirty. Then, the look would feel more realistic and less "cartoony" since this is how we're used to see cars in real-life races. Marks, dust, scratchs, burnmarks, shaking parts or bumper...

Then explain to me how GTHD's cars look much more realistic than Forza 2's from the first moment in a race.

 

[Pebb]

Then explain to me how GTHD's cars look much more realistic than Forza 2's from the first moment in a race.

I agree, but Forza 2 looks close to PGR3, but only a small upgrade, even Forza 2 still has a lot of jagged edges to improve. But since the Xbox 360 is near its full power most likely, so you won't see much of an improvement in the graphics on Forza 2 over PGR3 or future games on the Xbox 360.

However PD said the only console, which can offer 85% close to real life graphics or real looking graphics is the PS3, because the PS3 Developer software is running at half the power of the PS3.

But when future Dev software comes out, then the developers can use the full power of the PS3, on the other hand if the Xbox 360 used some code to use the HD-DVD drive for HD-DVD games, then the games could look better with better textures and code.

 

[vectradriver]

This all sounds horribly PS3 biased right now. Yes GT is a Sony game, but to say 360 can't really improve on its graphics is nonsense. PGR3 is using one core of three for starters. Also how do you explain games looking better and better at the end of the PS2's life?

 

[JCE]

This lame arguement that players and game companies have about not being able to do something particular with an older game console is rubbish. I'm an old school gamer and I can tell you that this arguement has been going on since the Famicom/NES days. You just take a look at Mega/Sega CD vs Super Famicom/SNES for example, everyone said you had to go with CD to get awsome graphics and more content. Well that is most certainly not true, take games like Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean, Seiken Densetsu 3, Treasure Hunter G, Rudora no Hihou, and Romancing SaGa 3. (yes I'm an old RPG fan) Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean were brilliant in almost every aspect, the graphics were better then alot of PSX games at the time.

And in the modern days this is true with the PS2, anyone that has played Final Fantasy XII will agree with me when I say that FFXII is one of the most beautiful and content rich games ever. The PS2's hardware REALLY gets used for that game.

What I'm trying to say is what vectradriver said just with more in-depth info. I'd rather game companies use exsisting console and push them to their limits than just build another console and barely use any of it's hardware power. That's lazy programming in my opinion.

My 2 cents.

 

[DuckRacer]

I agree, but Forza 2 looks close to PGR3, but only a small upgrade, even Forza 2 still has a lot of jagged edges to improve. But since the Xbox 360 is near its full power most likely, so you won't see much of an improvement in the graphics on Forza 2 over PGR3 or future games on the Xbox 360.

Yeah, right. There's no such thing as reaching full power in consoles. And it's not even near maxing it out anyway.

However PD said the only console, which can offer 85% close to real life graphics or real looking graphics is the PS3, because the PS3 Developer software is running at half the power of the PS3.

No 🤬, Sherlock, PD is owned by Sony, the same people who make the PS3. Do you honestly think they'll say that a competitor's console is just as good for graphics?

But when future Dev software comes out, then the developers can use the full power of the PS3, on the other hand if the Xbox 360 used some code to use the HD-DVD drive for HD-DVD games, then the games could look better with better textures and code.

"Textures"? Yes. "Code"? Umm, no.

I seriously think that you should think about what you're saying.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

This all sounds horribly PS3 biased right now. Yes GT is a Sony game, but to say 360 can't really improve on its graphics is nonsense. PGR3 is using one core of three for starters. Also how do you explain games looking better and better at the end of the PS2's life?

Unfortunately, the 360 using only 1 core has absolutely no effect on it's visuals, since the 360's CPU is never used for rendering visuals, nor was the console designed with that idea in mind.

 

[slackbladder]

If you go here www.peugeot-concours-design.com you can vote on a concept car that will eventually feature in a 360 game. It does'nt say which but I'm guessing Forza 2 because there was a special Seat concept car in the first Forza with Xbox written all over it. Still, maybe it'll feature in PGR4.
You have 10 votes from 30 concepts, but there's only three days left to vote. The winning concept will also be made for the Frankfurt Motor Show this year.

 

[Diab]

No it's PGR4, it was actually this competition that leaked the news that PGR4 was in development. lol

 

[Dave A]

It does'nt say which but I'm guessing Forza 2 because there was a special Seat concept car in the first Forza with Xbox written all over it. Still, maybe it'll feature in PGR4.

No that wasn't a concept car, it was a prototype class race car SEAT built and it raced in a Spanish GT series.

 

[Pebb]

Yeah, right. There's no such thing as reaching full power in consoles. And it's not even near maxing it out anyway.


No 🤬, Sherlock, PD is owned by Sony, the same people who make the PS3. Do you honestly think they'll say that a competitor's console is just as good for graphics?



"Textures"? Yes. "Code"? Umm, no.

I seriously think that you should think about what you're saying.

EA said it is only using 20% of the PS3's full power in it's current PS3 games out now and lined up.

 

[G.T]

EA said it is only using 20% of the PS3's full power in it's current PS3 games out now and lined up.

Yes, but who said it was using nearly all of the 360's power?

 

[Pebb]

Yes, but who said it was using nearly all of the 360's power?

I said most likely, that could mean yes or no.