Forza Motorsport 3

[craste]

So all PD have to do to prevent getting laughed at is by adding skidmarks.

I didn't see much in the forza trailer which suggested any particularly big improvements since the last game, other than the far improved graphics. The potential to roll the car is also good, but the damage seems no more advanced than last game. It still appears to have the same number of cars on track as the last game.

My point is, the trailer did what it was meant to do, look good and look fun, both forza and GT5's trailers achieved those, but neither give us sufficient info on whether either of them are going to be killer games.

I guess we will see.

I really think that skidmarks are such an important thing and not to have them included in the game - to me it would be like playing a shoot e'm up game and when you fired your gun at a wall it would not leave any bullet holes - that would be so un realistic.

i just think that if weve waited years for this game and they cannot include them then its a joke!!

Maybe the cars in GT5 HOVER above the track so there is no tyre contact!!!

I just want to drive behind another racer in an m3 or m5 and see them boot it out of a second gear corner and leave some dirty great skid marks as they get the back end out.

So cool.

 

[Stevisiov]

I really think that skidmarks are such an important thing and not to have them included in the game - to me it would be like playing a shoot e'm up game and when you fired your gun at a wall it would not leave any bullet holes - that would be so un realistic.

That's not really a great analogy since bullet holes in fps's are actually handy to determine where you are aiming (particularly if you don't have cross hairs), you make think that sounds odd, but seeing where your bullets land slightly left of your opponent tell you to aim slightly right, likewise if you are firing a high recoil automatic weapon and the wall behind your target is starting to look like cauldron then you no you need to reduce your rate of fire to improve your accuracy, and because of the immediate nature of the feedback you can quickly correct your aim.

In this sense bullet holes actually help you aim, so without them things would be very weird indeed.

This doesn't really apply to skid marks, since the only time you can see your skid marks un-folding is if you take a rear veiw when driving, and you don't watch your skidmarks to determine if you are aiming your car in the right.

So if skidmarks because they happen as a prodict which doesn't really aid us, what would a better analogy be?

Well for our shooter game, perhaps skidmarks are a bit like expended cartridges. They are a visual bi-product of the gun firing (much like the tyre marks are a visual bit product of us pushing the tyre) while this is visually realistic it doesn't interact with anything.

Now you may make the argument that tyre marks can be useful to determine lines and braking points in later laps, but generally tyre marks in games, much like expended cartridges in games tend disappear fairly quickly to save processing power.

So imagine a shooting game where your expended cartridges don't fly out the guns when firing, its not ideal but it certainly doesn't make or break a game.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Its slightly more than just cartridges, skid marks are the only lasting thing you can leave on the track (aside from track damage) so its kinda important Plus if its realistic, you'll get build ups of skid marks on the racing line and at braking points.

 

[oqvist]

Stevisiov I take it you are a hot lapper since you never return to the same spot again

Wolfracer I do hope you can leave spoilers, wheels and what not on track too also in GT 5. I am not looking for a crash simulator like GRID but it would be nice since it happens and they actually have physical values so you better avoid hitting them.

It´s more useful then bullet holes in fps since it can be used as reference for when to brake and such if you happen to find a mark or just create one for yourself. I mean very few fps games do have true ballistics on the bullets anyway so if you aim correctly you hit what you aim at.

So yes I do see it as an important feature but of course it´s not prio 1. Race tracks are dirty.. You should have rubber build up on the outside. Think Barcelona T 3 and T 4 I think it gets is hellish if you go to wide into the loose rubber. Skid marks, oil spills from broken engines and all. But I think this is the reason polyphony don´t want it. Think it´s some japanese thing that everything is supposed to be polished and clean and no dirt whatsoever. I don´t find the tracks in GT 5 Prologue that realistic looking for that reason. Technically they are good looking but the Forza 2 tracks is more lifelike. Much of it is the better physics of course but much is the tracks themselves as well.

If the WRC cars turn up to not build up any mud on them at all that would proove my point about polyphony. Otherwise would be so easy to implement it´s criminal not to do it.

 

[Stevisiov]

Its slightly more than just cartridges, skid marks are the only lasting thing you can leave on the track (aside from track damage) so its kinda important Plus if its realistic, you'll get build ups of skid marks on the racing line and at braking points.

Stevisiov I take it you are a hot lapper since you never return to the same spot again

Wolfracer I do hope you can leave spoilers, wheels and what not on track too also in GT 5. I am not looking for a crash simulator like GRID but it would be nice since it happens and they actually have physical values so you better avoid hitting them.

It´s more useful then bullet holes in fps since it can be used as reference for when to brake and such if you happen to find a mark or just create one for yourself. I mean very few fps games do have true ballistics on the bullets anyway so if you aim correctly you hit what you aim at.

So yes I do see it as an important feature but of course it´s not prio 1. Race tracks are dirty.. You should have rubber build up on the outside. Think Barcelona T 3 and T 4 I think it gets is hellish if you go to wide into the loose rubber. Skid marks, oil spills from broken engines and all. But I think this is the reason polyphony don´t want it. Think it´s some japanese thing that everything is supposed to be polished and clean and no dirt whatsoever. I don´t find the tracks in GT 5 Prologue that realistic looking for that reason. Technically they are good looking but the Forza 2 tracks is more lifelike. Much of it is the better physics of course but much is the tracks themselves as well.

If the WRC cars turn up to not build up any mud on them at all that would proove my point about polyphony. Otherwise would be so easy to implement it´s criminal not to do it.

But as I said in my post, yes it would be handy to use them as braking references, but skidmarks tend not to last more than a few seconds in racing games if due to the processing power required, it sounds silly but its true.

So really value of tyre marks are diminished as they disappear quickly. The tracks already have pre rendered tire marks and lines to make use of, while this isn't ideal its what we have to work with.

Now unless a racing games have tyre marks which last for a good deal of time, elevens so to speak don't really add anything but visual realism.

 

[WolfRacer543]

I have played a game where the skidmarks stayed... I can't remember which one it was because of the fac tI've played so many different racing games now Possibly Live for Speed?

 

[Dave A]

They wouldn't stay on a console game and on some PC sims they are variable so you can set them to stay for so long or for so many to appear. Skid marks take up memory hence the reason they dissapear, in games they are completley superficial so unelss PD was going to model the actual effect of the rubber on the track which is minimal and would probably require a lot more effort that it would be worth then I wouldn't be overly concerned. In a lot of games the skid marks don't look realistic anyway.

 

[frank-jaeger]

This is probably one the most ultimate failure of the videogame industry

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2631203.aspx

Giving people a free car in exchange of a vote in a stupid poll

OH GOD !!!

 

[Gabkicks]

Yeah its already been brought up. I just want to try the damn game for myself because I don't really trust Forza 3 or GT's propoganda... I don't care about the immature argument going back and forth between fanboys. I just want a great sim with tons of cars and great graphics.

 

[Strittan]

This is probably one the most ultimate failure of the videogame industry

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2631203.aspx

Giving people a free car in exchange of a vote in a stupid poll

OH GOD !!!

Hahaha! I'm out of words, really, I am...

There was a thread started in the GT5 forum as well though, about voting for GT5 in the same poll. But luckily it got closed, and there was no award involved.

 

[gt3_racer05]

This is probably one the most ultimate failure of the videogame industry

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2631203.aspx

Giving people a free car in exchange of a vote in a stupid poll

OH GOD !!!

That is pathetic man. They have to give away something free for a vote. They knew it's not good enough to vote alone w/o offering anything free

 

[Terronium-12]

You know what?

I've been looking through that thread all day, reading the threads and such and I've noticed something, a particular reply from a user points out something interesting...

yes i was gonna vote GT5 regardless as i prefer it to forza, i played and enjoyed forza 2 alot at a mates house and i never had a doubt because i feel GT5 is the better game, yes i twisted the lack of faith but that was to get the attention

"wise oppotunity" yh sure, if the table was tunred you'd be whining about it

i dont agree with that and i can only guarentee 60% of those votes, and Polyphony dont get involved with they're fans, please dont make me laugh, the second GT5: Prologue came out we asked for damage and they listened and delivered so dont give me that community crap, and even though dont they have delivered 5 great racing games regardless

"Little jealous and insecure", i thought i was in the wrong by twisting crap, so now youre officially a hypocrite, congratulations

you can take me comment with a pinch of salt but im still right and even if i am bashing the dev team im no worse than Turn 10 the dev team that is doing exactly what ive supposidly done yet you have no problem with them?

i own both consoles and actually enjoy my 360 more im just stating my honest opinions and i dont like how Turn 10 are taking their "oppotunities"

And the reply from the community "VIP."

Please explain how I'm a hypocrite at all. I'm not jealous, nor am I insecure in the least. Nice job trying to 'retaliate', but you should at least try and provide some reasoning along with it.

And I like you admit you were just 'trying to get attention'. Thats what we call TROLLING. So you pretty much just admitted to being a troll, which pretty much tells us how much any of us should listen to anything you have to say.

As for Polyphony 'listening' to the users about damage, I think you are confused about the sequence of events. They were talking about doing damage well before Prologue was released(as far back as 2007). And no doubt, it was in reaction to needing to compete with Forza, not because their fans are 'asking for it', which is not something I see that much. In fact, I see more GT fans trying to downplay the importance of damage, even though this is very likely just a little insecure psychological defense mechanism in order to reassure themselves that 'their racing game' is the best, as that somehow matters so much to some people.

So you can think you're right all you like, but I've put out a very good explanation for why Turn 10 would do what they did, and I see you've completely ignored trying to refute it, and instead focused on the other, less important parts of my response. Tells the whole story, really!

Now, I'm all against being a fanboy. In fact, I think fanboys should be hung from a tree branch, simply because the idea of being "loyal" or "true" to any one thing is aimless and above all else...asinine. Is what I just said against etiquette? I think so, but it's honesty and I won't be looked down on because of it. Am I trying to send this down the path of another flame thread? Only from my point of view, I'm not looking for it to be continued. It's just ridiculous that their players are being bribed to vote for their game and it's being rubbed off as a "smart move."

Mreh. Politics.

 

[Northstar]

On the Forza forum VIP is just a rank, it is meaningless.

Anyways, what was the point of bringing that here? One person replied to a stupid idiotic post with another stupid idiotic post, nothing too important.

 

[Joey D]

What I really find funny is that many members here are doing the exact same thing they are mocking on the Forza forums.

 

[Terronium-12]

On the Forza forum VIP is just a rank, it is meaningless.

Anyways, what was the point of bringing that here? One person replied to a stupid idiotic post with another stupid idiotic post, nothing too important.

Oh crap. I deleted some of the text I wrote in addition to that. There was a reason that specific line of text was boldfaced. The VIP never addressed it, but practically everything else was.

You're right though. It isn't too important but the the community itself and the attitude, especially that of Che, whom I never even heard of until E3.

It's bothersome, I'm justifying the post or the possible view of it being spam-tastic, but seriously..."Vote for FM3 and get a free unicorn car" ?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Meh...they can't even check if you voted. You can vote for GT5 and tell them you voted.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Meh...they can't even check if you voted. You can vote for GT5 and tell them you voted.

That's exactly my point. Its not like they are following you into a voting chamber with a gun to your head and saying "VOTE FOR US AND GET A FREE CAR!". They are just having some fun with what was always a stupid poll, and using it to get involved with the community.

 

[McLaren]

And the reply from the community "VIP."



Now, I'm all against being a fanboy. In fact, I think fanboys should be hung from a tree branch, simply because the idea of being "loyal" or "true" to any one thing is aimless and above all else...asinine. Is what I just said against etiquette? I think so, but it's honesty and I won't be looked down on because of it. Am I trying to send this down the path of another flame thread? Only from my point of view, I'm not looking for it to be continued. It's just ridiculous that their players are being bribed to vote for their game and it's being rubbed off as a "smart move."

Mreh. Politics.

Got a link? I'm not going to be surprised if that's one of the forum "moderators".

 

[Terronium-12]

Link at the top of the page, however, what I'm referring to starts here...

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/82/2631203/ShowThread.aspx

 

[McLaren]

Link at the top of the page, however, what I'm referring to starts here...

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/82/2631203/ShowThread.aspx

Turn10 wasn't bribing people to claim Forza 3 was the better game (even though that was Che's intentions; he said so himself), they were just trying to interact with their community & give people a reason to keep playing Forza 2.


Yeah. Right.

 

[oqvist]

This is probably one the most ultimate failure of the videogame industry

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2631203.aspx

Giving people a free car in exchange of a vote in a stupid poll

OH GOD !!!

Lol. Well I am going to vote because unicorns is nice. But nothing say you can´t vote for GT 5 right.

 

[Terronium-12]

Turn10 wasn't bribing people to claim Forza 3 was the better game (even though that was Che's intentions; he said so himself), they were just trying to interact with their community & give people a reason to keep playing Forza 2.


Yeah. Right.

Like I said in my previous post, notice how he doesn't acknowledge or address the fact that if PD did what they're doing, they'd whine about it as being low...just as we are?

All in all, it's besides the point when it's all said and done. I'll get both and if FM3 should come first then so be it, I'm not looking for either to satiate any one "desire" I'm just a car nut who happens to be a gamer. 👍

 

[McLaren]

Like I said in my previous post, notice how he doesn't acknowledge or address the fact that if PD did what they're doing, they'd whine about it as being low...just as we are?

You should see the guy who claimed I just made a profile to complain. I didn't know we were still in 2007.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Like I said in my previous post, notice how he doesn't acknowledge or address the fact that if PD did what they're doing, they'd whine about it as being low...just as we are?

Yeah, so? They'd be jealous you're getting a free car for voting in a stupid meaningless poll. I know I wish I could get a free car for voting in a meanlingless poll, but I dont own forza to get one

 

[Moglet]

I'm not bothered if it's underhanded and immature as long as it gets me a free unicorn car

 

[oqvist]

Yes maybe get back to the sim in question. Politics bores me very quickly. Seem to be reports from some japanese review that there will be no changeable weather . Still hope for day/night cycles. Needed if they are going to do Le Mans

 

[Delphic Reason]

Yes maybe get back to the sim in question. Politics bores me very quickly. Seem to be reports from some japanese review that there will be no changeable weather . Still hope for day/night cycles. Needed if they are going to do Le Mans

Source?

 

[oqvist]

It´s in japanese so I haven´t even read it. it´s in the forzamotorsports.net forums probably the best source for Forza 3 news/rumours and what not

 

[Stevisiov]

I just heard a rumour that Gran Turismo will feature horse racing to help capture new fans.

That was easy.

 

[geordie]

I heard that if you have a major accident that your car will catch fire and explode