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Correct. Installation is not required, but you miss some content then.
Forza Motorsport 3
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Joey D
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Not really since it effectively voids your time if you use it. The rewind feature is there for casual players who don't care about getting to the top of the leaderboard. The game more than likely isn't going to force you to use it.
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Some more info and videos on Forza 3 in the link.
Tyre deformation and you guessed it, its the definitive racing game this generation, no game comes close - John Wedl
http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/08/oxcgns-forza-3-update-more-details/
Tyre deformation and you guessed it, its the definitive racing game this generation, no game comes close - John Wedl
http://oxcgn.com/2009/06/08/oxcgns-forza-3-update-more-details/
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Yeah, at first the idea of the rewind feature bothered me, but now I think about it, as long as you can turn it off its fine. Then during long painful half hour or longer races, you can turn it back to save you some heartache. I know most games I turn damage either off or down when racing several laps on the Nurburgring because its just so frustrating crashing after 10 or 20 minutes of racing.
Also, regarding high speed crash damage, I dont really care if its spectacular for big crashes. Its the little things that matter... suspension damage from rubbing up against people or bouncing over kerbs, losing wings/splitters when tapping the wall, tire wear, engine damage from abusing it too much (which should also be accompanied by a control over rev limiters and possibly even air duct control ala GTR).
Also, regarding high speed crash damage, I dont really care if its spectacular for big crashes. Its the little things that matter... suspension damage from rubbing up against people or bouncing over kerbs, losing wings/splitters when tapping the wall, tire wear, engine damage from abusing it too much (which should also be accompanied by a control over rev limiters and possibly even air duct control ala GTR).
Eric.
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You have got to be 🤬 kidding me. Its not a simulator because the lighting is off. On a game that is still in 🤬 development. Oh my God, the car isn't going to behave right at all because the photons are transferring energy to the ground in front of me where there should be a shadow!
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You have got to be 🤬 kidding me. Its not a simulator because the lighting is off. On a game that is still in 🤬 development. Oh my God, the car isn't going to behave right at all because the photons are transferring energy to the ground in front of me where there should be a shadow!
Exactly
besides, that video is taken with a video camera viewing the screen, which excentuates lighting (the cockpit is far darker and the reflections far brighter than what they'd actually look like... this is the video camera, not the game).Subtle HDR is good and enhances realism, too much HDR looks like GRID
The rewind feature It´s superb as a training tool though. I have wished to have it for nordschleife. I mean the first week you only get to run the first third because you crash out before you can practise the other sections. And it´s not efficient to make one carousel every 9 minutes or so.
Also of course when you run off line in career mode and you are on a booring race but you want to do it to get to the next it would be handy.
Also of course when you run off line in career mode and you are on a booring race but you want to do it to get to the next it would be handy.
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The rewind function would take all the tension out of racing. The only racing game I've played that has real, "terminal" damage is F1CE - one mistake & it's all over! There's nothing that adds tension to a game more than racing for 30 minutes + & reaching the later stages of the race knowing you have to push hard, while at that same time knowing that one slip-up means you're done.
Frustrating? Yes! Exciting? You betcha!
Frustrating? Yes! Exciting? You betcha!
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He talks up the tire physics and deformation, but Live for Speed has been doing tire deformation for years (both visible and also the underlying physics) and is often regarded as having the best tire physics around... I hope Forza 3 has tire physics on the same level as Live for Speed, if it does it'll be one of the most awesome simulations around, but I have my doubts
Tire physics are often considered a "black magic" of racing. Its the only part of the car that touches the ground, but the physics involved are some of the most vague physics in motorsport (compared to suspension and chassis physics which are actually pretty simple). If you are going down the road of trying to do accurate tire physics, its a long and painful road and may NOT give you the most realistic result... often you can get a more realistic result simply by "faking" the tire physics, rather than actually doing complicated things like calculating forces from slip angles and deformations (which is where your cornering force comes from).
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Agreed, I have a lot of time for LFS's tyre physics, the grip and wear is also modelled exceptionally well, I posted this a while ago in another thread.
'Tyres are modelled very well in LFS, the circumference of the tyre is broken up into small segments, each segment has its own temperature and wear associated with it, if you have too much camber the outside segments heat up very quickly and wear much faster, also it allows flatspots to be modelled, when you lock a tyre the scrubbed segments of the tyre heat up dramatically and wears that part of the tyre significantly, on certain cars big flatspots are very noticeable, particularly the F1 car, the car vibrates just like in real life. If a a segment wears excessively then it causes the tyre to fail, locking up can be very costly in lfs so setting your maximum brake pressure just right is important.'
It's detail like that, particularly in the tyre physics which can make a huge difference to how realistic the simulation is.
'Tyres are modelled very well in LFS, the circumference of the tyre is broken up into small segments, each segment has its own temperature and wear associated with it, if you have too much camber the outside segments heat up very quickly and wear much faster, also it allows flatspots to be modelled, when you lock a tyre the scrubbed segments of the tyre heat up dramatically and wears that part of the tyre significantly, on certain cars big flatspots are very noticeable, particularly the F1 car, the car vibrates just like in real life. If a a segment wears excessively then it causes the tyre to fail, locking up can be very costly in lfs so setting your maximum brake pressure just right is important.'
It's detail like that, particularly in the tyre physics which can make a huge difference to how realistic the simulation is.
It´s all fake it´s a computer sim. I don´t know how you fake fake the tire modelling . I am sure if it doesn´t pan out they will tone it down and the more research they make on it the better The tire physics in Forza 2 was quite good. It was even more anal about not sliding your tires or you would a considerable amount of cornering speed with less traction when cornering then the PC sims. Just a shame that the wheel support aren´t as rock solid as on the PC sims though otherwise they would be quite challenged as a hardcore simracer if the steering input was more linear and with no input. I ran with the MS FFB wheel I hope the Turbo S will fair better . And the different type of tires had the effect you expected them to. Some concessions to make it easier was made though in that you can recover from slides at impossible angles but I would say Forza 2 is a sim definiatly.
As for rewind function taking off all the tension. I don´t know how many here would take the time to rewind every other corner to get it all perfect. I am sure they will be sensible in that you can´t hot lap with that function activated and they give you more bonus for not using it in the career. Though I see what you mean I don´t think I will use it much in the career mode unless I get just to frustrated.
. I am sure if it doesn´t pan out they will tone it down and the more research they make on it the better The tire physics in Forza 2 was quite good. It was even more anal about not sliding your tires or you would a considerable amount of cornering speed with less traction when cornering then the PC sims. Just a shame that the wheel support aren´t as rock solid as on the PC sims though otherwise they would be quite challenged as a hardcore simracer if the steering input was more linear and with no input. I ran with the MS FFB wheel I hope the Turbo S will fair better . And the different type of tires had the effect you expected them to. Some concessions to make it easier was made though in that you can recover from slides at impossible angles but I would say Forza 2 is a sim definiatly.As for rewind function taking off all the tension. I don´t know how many here would take the time to rewind every other corner to get it all perfect. I am sure they will be sensible in that you can´t hot lap with that function activated and they give you more bonus for not using it in the career. Though I see what you mean I don´t think I will use it much in the career mode unless I get just to frustrated.
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he means using numbers that are not realistic to get the game to "feel" realistic. We all know 2 + 2 = 4. We expect a recipe to bring forth a certain result, but what if a simulation didnt get the results we wanted, so we fudge the ingredients or amnt of ingredients to get the same result in the simulation because something is missing, or we made a mistake somewhere? Is that okay?
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It´s all fake it´s a computer sim. I don´t know how you fake fake the tire modelling
I'll use an analogy of Aerodynamics because I know more about it
If you are designing a flight simulator of a particular aircraft, you need to know how the wing reacts. The physics involved is incredibly complicated. You could just go out, find the plane, put a few sensors on it and measure what's happening, then put those numbers into your game and interpolate for values that you dont know (ie. guess for values you dont know).The other alternative is trying to do realistic aerodynamic modelling. Basically meaning you have to solve the Navier Stokes equations millions of times, huge arrays of matricies of partial differential equations. To run the simulations in real time would take computing power beyond anything available to consumers and possibly even more powerful than the massive government owned supercomputers (it takes hours on the super computers at my university just to run "snapshots" in time of a simple wing). To run them accurately you'd need an incredible understanding of not only the aerodynamics but also the structure which will vary because of the pressure forces on it, which will in turn affect the aerodynamics. Then that too has to be modelled. At the end of the day, you've spent billions of dollars in research, got something that requires God-like computing power, and at the end of the day probably has massive inaccuracies because of some assumption you made (or you told the computer to make) to make the equations remotely solvable.
All when you could have taken option 1 and just "faked" it with numbers off one of the real aircraft
The tire physics are the same. The cornering force essentially comes from your slip angle, camber thrust and elasticity. Those things are dependant on temperature, side wall height and thickness, pressures, compound, how the compound varies through the tire, which again is dependant on temperature and pressures, etc etc etc, I doubt most race engineers could tell you everything that goes into it. At the end of the day, why not just take a car, put a few sensors on it, and take it round a track and then put those numbers into the game. Forget trying to accurately model the tires, just fake it
I am just being an ass since we will never get 100 % accuracy anyway. But mathematic approaches often gives a better feel instead by going by numbers if you go by the flight simulations.
Take IL 2 versus CFS 3. Or X-plane versus FS9. MS improved a lot on FSX by using more mathematics then trying to rely on the spec charts for climb performance and such. So for flight simulations the opposite seem to be true though they trade punches of course.
I don´t know what approach they go buy but since there is so many different tires in Forza 3 they would be quite forced to find a good mathematic model.
Take IL 2 versus CFS 3. Or X-plane versus FS9. MS improved a lot on FSX by using more mathematics then trying to rely on the spec charts for climb performance and such
. So for flight simulations the opposite seem to be true though they trade punches of course.I don´t know what approach they go buy but since there is so many different tires in Forza 3 they would be quite forced to find a good mathematic model.
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So all PD have to do to prevent getting laughed at is by adding skidmarks.
I didn't see much in the forza trailer which suggested any particularly big improvements since the last game, other than the far improved graphics. The potential to roll the car is also good, but the damage seems no more advanced than last game. It still appears to have the same number of cars on track as the last game.
My point is, the trailer did what it was meant to do, look good and look fun, both forza and GT5's trailers achieved those, but neither give us sufficient info on whether either of them are going to be killer games.
I guess we will see.
McLaren
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Already posted in this thread.
Really?...Thanks, I'll remove the the post then 👍
dylansan
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Gran Turismo 2 used the racing line for the beginning license tests, I believe.
Edit: I really want to win this poll just to shove it in their face that we can win without bribing people with prize cars or spewing a load of crap about the competition.
Edit 2: Wrong thread
Edit: I really want to win this poll just to shove it in their face that we can win without bribing people with prize cars or spewing a load of crap about the competition.
Edit 2: Wrong thread
Last edited:
KSaiyu
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Vid taken from a thread from the official forums showing BMW gameplay http://www.operationsports.com/videoview.php?id=404
....and I'm not impressed. Maybe it's after playing GT5 and Race Pro but I feel it needs to take a significant step in terms of physics from Forza 2 - the driving just doesn't look right in any of the videos and I can't expect it will change much when I'm actually playing with the wheel.
Still optimistic though, just maybe not as much.
....and I'm not impressed. Maybe it's after playing GT5
and Race Pro but I feel it needs to take a significant step in terms of physics from Forza 2 - the driving just doesn't look right in any of the videos and I can't expect it will change much when I'm actually playing with the wheel.Still optimistic though, just maybe not as much.
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Strittan
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Yeah, there we have it. And Turn 10 claims they invented it and that everybody have copied them?
Although I don't have an Xbox 360, I'm sure Forza 3 will be an awesome and fun game. However, I think they should really cut their BS out, for their own good and reputation. 👍
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