Forza Motorsport 3

[Tenacious D]

holt, hold on now. Someone in Turn 10 discussed the Photomode and said the screenshots would be higher quality than racing graphics. It doesn't mean the racing or replays will look ugh or anything, just that the screengrabs will be optimum quality. And while the cars in Prologue look that much better, the FM3 cars look great. We would have died if we had a game with these graphics in 2006.

I will say that after watching another couple of meh quality videos, even though FM3 still runs at 720p and has the same 8 car races, the texture quality is much better. Like I said, Half Life 2, which isn't a knock because HL2 was the Crysis of its day. They must be compressing their textures with much higher quality.

 

[Gabkicks]

Wait till LED TVs get cheaper, but i wont get too off topic now. lol

haha, yeah I think I'll set a 40 inch LED tv as something to get in the future.

It would be nice to see a demo released. Maybe Forza should rip off of GT for a few weeks and release 'Forza 3: Prologue'. I want to try the game for myself w/ the Turbo S wheel and no aids on.
I'd like to see a video released showing off how realistic the physics and car handling are. sofar we've seen nothing showing off the deformable tires.

If you watch highlights from motorsport, especially in F1, you can see tires deform. Forza is strictly tintops?

 

[tfujiwara]

I think the reflections on the cars body counts as a great step for graphics...
and grass also needs a bit more detail.

 

[holt_allen]

holt, hold on now. Someone in Turn 10 discussed the Photomode and said the screenshots would be higher quality than racing graphics. It doesn't mean the racing or replays will look ugh or anything, just that the screengrabs will be optimum quality. And while the cars in Prologue look that much better, the FM3 cars look great. We would have died if we had a game with these graphics in 2006.

I will say that after watching another couple of meh quality videos, even though FM3 still runs at 720p and has the same 8 car races, the texture quality is much better. Like I said, Half Life 2, which isn't a knock because HL2 was the Crysis of its day. They must be compressing their textures with much higher quality.

I do not disagree that Gran Turismo 5 looks better, I just attribute that to superior lighting and colour palate, both of which have been evident in GT games since GT4, where the game managed to look amazing despite the limited PS2 hardware.

If I could see the dev. interview you are talking about that would be great, but you can watch the off-screen gameplay videos available on numerous websites and there is no noticeable drop in the quality of the car models when compared to the photo-mode screens. Obviously all of that detail will not be visible at any one point in time during a race due to LOD, but I highly doubt they are going to be swapping car models between the garage, replay and gameplay as that would create three times as much work for the modelers. Furthermore, the screens I linked earlier on the previous page of the BMW E92 M3 came from a Turn 10 dev's. blog in which he reiterated that "...Also thought I'd mention that these are 100% in-game assets created with photomode." So yeah, obviously photo-mode improves things like AA and aniso, lighting etc, but the assets themselves (e.g. the car models) are the same.

I still do not see the major difference between the car models of GT5p and FM 3 are, which as I said earlier makes sense given that both the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 are closely matched in terms of hardware. I am no disputing the fact that GT5 has great lighting the gives it a photo realistic look, I was just marveling at the fact that Turn 10 was able to model 400 cars to the same detail level of GT5 with only two years between the release of Forza 2 and Forza 3.

 

[Biggles]

To my eye, Forza 3 ( like FM 1 vs GT4), looks less realistic than GT5P. It looks more like a game, where GT5P has a more photo-realistic look to it, particularly the car-modelling. However, the quality of the environments does look very rich in FM3, albeit not that "realistic". Personally, I find the environments very realistic , but rather bland looking in GT5P. Hopefully, that will change in GT5.

As far as physics is concerned, I think it's impossible to tell until you have played both. Certainly, now that FM has good wheel support, it is likely to be a much stronger competitor to GT. I really hope KY steps up to the challenge presented by Turn 10, & doesn't just focus on ever-more perfect graphics.

Criticizing Dan G for talking up FM3 is totally ridiculous - of course he would call it the best ever. That's his job!

 

[Tenacious D]

I really hope KY steps up to the challenge presented by Turn 10, & doesn't just focus on ever-more perfect graphics.

I know you think Prologue is a pretty big letdown to you and Ferrari Challenge is some sort of god game, but you're in a pretty small minority. You should really love Forza 3 because FC is basically Forza 2 on the PS3.

I will have to say though that I spent more than $750 to play FM2, and I'm done spending on hardware for that thing. If they can't support a common wheel like the Logitechs, Ms can lick me.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, it did... Problem was, no one bought the Logitech wheel for the 360. So they stopped making it. Weird how that happens, eh? Otherwise, I'd agree. It would be lovely to have the extra wheel support, but seeing as how they've got the controls done pretty nicely on a standard-issue controller... It isn't as though I'm going to die without.

Anyway, this pissing contest that you're throwing fire on TenaciousD is rather silly. We know you love the GT series, and we know that you had a negative experience with FM2. But if I may ask, what are you trying to prove by constantly speaking negatively of the FM series in general? Furthermore denying any kind of possibility that FM3 will most likely be the best racing game money can buy until GT5 shows up (well, assuming it does)?



Maybe its because I don't own a PS3, and maybe its because my interest in GT seems to have dried up a bit... But c'mon. They're both going to be excellent racing games that we're all likely to play, we're all likely to enjoy, and I'm sure that we'll all be eagerly anticipating their next iterations however long down the road.

 

[tfujiwara]

I thought this was ok....I cant wait for the sounds...

 

[McLaren]

I really can't wait til' they model the driver animations so more.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Really? I do not see any significant difference between the two games in terms of model quality. Also, from looking at the off screen footage and the photo-mode screens there seems to be no difference between the in-game model and the model displayed in photo-mode.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4774/mf38.jpg
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/granturismo5prologue/images/0/155/?full_size=1

Yeah, they do not match in quality?

That image from GT5P... sorry, I dont actually own a PS3, but is that what it really looks like in game? I was under the impression it looking like it does in this thread...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114757
Pic from thread:

Which isn't nearly as sexy as the other ferrari pic.

I have a feeling all we are doing is comparing replay footage which, from what I can see, is far nicer than actual "race" graphics.

 

[Dave A]

To be fair that second pic isn't one of the best in game screen caps of GT5 I've seen, you are right the cars look better in the menu screens and even in the replays certain effects and what not are added which make things look better but would slow the game down during play.

 

[Angerdx]

Well after this they lost my purchase, even tho it looks as a really good game.

"I'm in this industry because of Gran Turismo, let's just be frank," said Greenwalt. He then explained that Gran Turismo inspired his first "stressful" car purchase, a Mitsubishi 3000GT, saying that is was "a great car in that game, and I thought 'Oh my God, if I'm ever going to have a car, that's the car that I want.'" Then things got ugly.

"So, props to Kazunori Yamauchi-san and the PS1 team," said Greenwalt. "That said," he continued, "I feel that he's passed us the baton. Perhaps he hasn't meant to, but we have taken the genre to new levels and they've stopped evolving the genre. So again, tremendous respect to him, but I'd say the differentiator is they're old school." He conclued, "The emperor's naked, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now."

from joystiq, Now this Dan guy sure isn´t doing FM3 any favors

 

[T5-R]

/first pic

That image from GT5P... sorry, I dont actually own a PS3, but is that what it really looks like in game? I was under the impression it looking like it does in this thread...

/second pic

Which isn't nearly as sexy as the other ferrari pic.

I have a feeling all we are doing is comparing replay footage which, from what I can see, is far nicer than actual "race" graphics.

I'd say the second pic is far more representative. Whilst GT5 is very pretty I've always hated how Sony always make GT look far better than it really is. I know its all marketing and all but its not representable of what you see 99% the time. GT4 was the worst for this with most of shots seemingly from the higher res photo mode. Forza screens always seem more representable in my experience and I expect Forza 3 and GT5 to be very comparable.

In regards to Turn 10 & PD, heres a quote from the Turn 10 blog:

Perhaps the most surprising to me was when a couple developers from Gran Turismo makers Polyphony Digital came by to personally get hands-on with Forza 3, all the while taking careful notes, examining our UI system, shooting photos, and directly asking us some pretty interesting questions. The reason I say I was personally surprised was because PD aren’t generally known as a studio to acknowledge that there are racing games that exist beyond their own. Which could explain why the GT franchise has been so stagnant in the racing genre since GT3. So it seems competition is good for the consumer after all. I know for a fact that Turn 10 will never stop pushing racing games to the next level.

So there we have it, perhaps not suprisingly PD actually are getting worried and are also a bit cheeky too Turn 10 have really hit the nail on the head and I hope PD will finally stop resting on their laurels after so long. PD need to capture the magic of GT1 (by first ditching the crappy jazz music, poncy menus and pointless demo versions) and get back into making decent racing games with amazing attention to detail. If they still can...

Oh yes and with PD saying they could 'release GT5 at any time' I think we have the reason for their delay. After so many years they don't what to be pipped to the post by Forza 3 because that would effectively mean they've lost their 'crown'.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Che Chou of Turn 10
Perhaps the most surprising to me was when a couple developers from Gran Turismo makers Polyphony Digital came by to personally get hands-on with Forza 3, all the while taking careful notes, examining our UI system, shooting photos, and directly asking us some pretty interesting questions. The reason I say I was personally surprised was because PD aren’t generally known as a studio to acknowledge that there are racing games that exist beyond their own. Which could explain why the GT franchise has been so stagnant in the racing genre since GT3. So it seems competition is good for the consumer after all. I know for a fact that Turn 10 will never stop pushing racing games to the next level.

I was under the impression it was KY that wasn't interested in other racing games, not the whole of PD. Just because the dude in charge doesn't care, doesn't mean everyone else in the company doesn't care.

That doesn't mean PD are worried about FM3 anyway. I'm in a team that builds a formula race car, when we get to competition we always send out our "spies" to photograph all the other cars and any interesting components they might have. At the end of competition we end up with just as many photos of other teams' cars as our own.

 

[T5-R]

That doesn't mean PD are worried about FM3 anyway. I'm in a team that builds a formula race car, when we get to competition we always send out our "spies" to photograph all the other cars and any interesting components they might have. At the end of competition we end up with just as many photos of other teams' cars as our own.

Thats a bit of a contradiction really, surely the spies are sent out because they are worried? Which like you say it because its all competition I just find it amusing they actually went to the stand themselves and asked a load of questions. Not like your race car team (which sounds fun) would for instance give away your car setup if another teams spies showed up. I imagine Turn 10 gave lots of 'no comment' answers

 

[WolfRacer543]

Thats a bit of a contradiction really, surely the spies are sent out because they are worried? Which like you say it because its all competition I just find it amusing they actually went to the stand themselves and asked a load of questions. Not like your race car team (which sounds fun) would for instance give away your car setup if another teams spies showed up. I imagine Turn 10 gave lots of 'no comment' answers

There's plenty of teams that we aren't worried about but we still photograph their cars to see what they're up to and what ideas they have. Like, we have direct acting suspension, we like it and will continue to use it, but its interesting to see what other teams are doing, like torsional spring suspension and crazy stuff like that... doesn't mean we are worried those teams will suddenly beat us, but its nice to see what they are up to and if they have any ideas we might like to use.

Because of that we have a good knowledge base of what everyone does, which makes the team wiser when going ahead with the next year's car.

When a top team checks out a bottom team, it doesn't mean they are worried

 

[McLaren]

To be fair that second pic isn't one of the best in game screen caps of GT5 I've seen, you are right the cars look better in the menu screens and even in the replays certain effects and what not are added which make things look better but would slow the game down during play.

Exactly. I believe Forza 3 is doing the same thing as well. 👍

Perhaps the most surprising to me was when a couple developers from Gran Turismo makers Polyphony Digital came by to personally get hands-on with Forza 3, all the while taking careful notes, examining our UI system, shooting photos, and directly asking us some pretty interesting questions. The reason I say I was personally surprised was because PD aren’t generally known as a studio to acknowledge that there are racing games that exist beyond their own. Which could explain why the GT franchise has been so stagnant in the racing genre since GT3. So it seems competition is good for the consumer after all. I know for a fact that Turn 10 will never stop pushing racing games to the next level.

Anywhere he can, Che seems to love taking shots at PD, even failing to acknowledge that KY is the one who doesn't play others, not the studio; but that would ruin his point....But even more interesting is that he believes the series has become non-advancing since GT3 when there's only been 1 sequel released after GT3. And hell, that kind of thinking has worked for NFS, so someone's got to be doing something right over there.

You know, what? I'm glad Dan presented Forza 3 now. The way Che talks, it could have been much worse.

 

[Stevisiov]

Well after this they lost my purchase, even tho it looks as a really good game.

"I'm in this industry because of Gran Turismo, let's just be frank," said Greenwalt. He then explained that Gran Turismo inspired his first "stressful" car purchase, a Mitsubishi 3000GT, saying that is was "a great car in that game, and I thought 'Oh my God, if I'm ever going to have a car, that's the car that I want.'" Then things got ugly.

"So, props to Kazunori Yamauchi-san and the PS1 team," said Greenwalt. "That said," he continued, "I feel that he's passed us the baton. Perhaps he hasn't meant to, but we have taken the genre to new levels and they've stopped evolving the genre. So again, tremendous respect to him, but I'd say the differentiator is they're old school." He conclued, "The emperor's naked, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now."

from joystiq, Now this Dan guy sure isn´t doing FM3 any favors

Is Dan really saying this?

[edit]

got that link. Yes he is saying that.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/05/turn-10-on-forza-3-no-game-competes-with-us/

 

[Joey D]

I think people care to much about this, Turn 10 is setting themselves up for uber high expectations, if they don't deliver than the consumers will know and their sales will suffer. Although based on what the press has said thus far I think the game is delivering on what it promises to some extent. Like I've said though, it's really hard to tell unless the final game comes out.

To an extent I agree with what they are saying, I don't think the GT series hasn't been innovative in a long while. It's basically been more cars and more tracks with better graphics. PD haven't really added any new and exciting features, and in fact took out some awesome ones like the racing mods. However it looks like GT5 is going to change this based on the scant information we have. This should provide some stiff competition to the racing genre of gaming world, and the consumer will benefit.

 

[G.T.Ace]

After the "we have 400 cars, more than any game this generation" and "we have the best looking racing game this generation" on the press conference, they already lost a lot of credibility. All people i know who have seen the game live with their own eyes in LA said that GT5P looks better and im VERY confident that we will get a lot more cars in GT5 as well. A lot of people say PD is arrogant, but what is this?

 

[WolfRacer543]

A lot of people say PD is arrogant, but what is this?

Turn10 is vocally arrogant, PD is just quietly arrogant

 

[Tenacious D]

But if I may ask, what are you trying to prove by constantly speaking negatively of the FM series in general?

I only do it when you guys speak negatively of the Gran Turismo series. In general. I mean, it's okay for you guys to do it, but not us? Mighty one sided thinking, much.

I mean, I could talk like Dan Greenawalt...

Anyway, bring on Forza 3, so I can forget about FM2.

 

[Mark T]

I think those comments were made to attract people to the release of FM3. Arrogant but clever marketing. The more people talk about it the bigger it becomes.

 

[Gabkicks]

they say contradictory things. They claim the game is the most realistic ever, then i heard some other forza people say that the car stunt video was made using recordings from ingame... I guess we'll have to wait for more info.

 

[Northstar]

they say contradictory things. They claim the game is the most realistic ever, then i heard some other forza people say that the car stunt video was made using recordings from ingame... I guess we'll have to wait for more info.

So people don't do drifting and stuff like that in GT5P, wait a minute there is a mode isn't there?

 

[Tenacious D]

They claim the game is the most realistic ever, then i heard some other forza people say that the car stunt video was made using recordings from ingame... I guess we'll have to wait for more info.

That stunt video was just painful.

But I don't think anyone needs to worry too much. Forza 3 will have physics reasonably like FM2, at least it will if anyone at Turn 10 has half a brain. If FM3 came out handling like GRID or Burnout, there would be a HUGE backlash from the purists, which do make up a considerable portion of the Forza fanbase.

Oh lookie, another non-bash post from moi.

 

[Brend]

meh, forza was nothing special 1 or 2.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I know you think Prologue is a pretty big letdown to you and Ferrari Challenge is some sort of god game, but you're in a pretty small minority.

There's more than a couple of people disappointed with Prologue.

To an extent I agree with what they are saying, I don't think the GT series hasn't been innovative in a long while. It's basically been more cars and more tracks with better graphics. PD haven't really added any new and exciting features, and in fact took out some awesome ones like the racing mods. However it looks like GT5 is going to change this based on the scant information we have. This should provide some stiff competition to the racing genre of gaming world, and the consumer will benefit.

I agree. They didn't really improve the series that much going from GT3 to GT5P.

 

[Dave A]

So people don't do drifting and stuff like that in GT5P, wait a minute there is a mode isn't there?

No they do, but if that video was made from in game clips it doesn't bode well for the games physics.

It clearly isn't in game though and the cars clearly don't drive like the cars do in the actual game play bids, fortunately.

 

[yaoming3000]

I think that Turn 10's comments are just reinforcing cultural stereotypes. The brash, arrogant americans being loud and obnoxious while the japanese remain quiet and study the competition...