Forza Motorsport 3

[Kryz11]

Thats how drifting is done in real life? Jerking the wheel back and forth?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That's what happens when you make drifting mainstream.

 

[Chronos]

Drifting just like Forza 2

90° is all you need. I'm sorry but this is just Outrun style.

Could he have set the wheel the same rotation as the MS wheel. Would hard adjusting the wheel scale it down for the game? Even then, no lock, that's just bizarre.

What makes me laugh is the Forza players have some belief that Forza 2 is the most respected console sim by PC sim gamers.

Sorry to sound like a Fanboy, I've read it a lot lately whilst checking out FM3 but is this some Arcade mode or something?

 

[YSSMAN]

Sorry to sound like a Fanboy, I've read it a lot lately whilst checking out FM3 but is this some Arcade mode or something?

The video clearly states that its from the Forza 2 demo. It has no reflection on Forza 3 whatsoever.


My thought on the issue:

Meh. I'm not a drifter, I don't play with drifters, and thereby I am not worried about making my car drift. Methinks that tuning the settings of any of these wheels would fix the problem you've chosen to highlight, but seeing as how we have no idea what those guys are driving (other than the last video, which was a F430), its difficult to gauge the driftability of the car in the first place.

 

[Jay]

The car used in the FM3 Landin video is the 2004 Top Secret Silvia D1-Spec (S15) the reason I know is because there is some videos of the formula D (or whatever they are, the guys watching) guys attempting to drift and you see the selected car, it also sounds the same.

All I am saying is something is not right if to hold the drift you twitch the wheel left or right then straighten again (rinse and repeat), like I said either their is a problem with the controller interface, like the wheel doesn't give you full control like it should (it is the Turbo S wheel it should) or the physics allow this behaviour. Or maybe the physics engine changes when doing drift mode to make it easier to drift, although I doubt that and I hope not.


Here is the video you see the car.

 

[Joey D]

I don't know, I've seen enough GT videos to know you have to drift in the same manner with those games too. I think it's just a computer generated thing more than any particular game.

 

[tfujiwara]

Thats how drifting is done in real life? Jerking the wheel back and forth?

Not exactly...


Landon needed more angle...(I think)

 

[Jay]

I don't know, I've seen enough GT videos to know you have to drift in the same manner with those games too. I think it's just a computer generated thing more than any particular game.

You don't drift like that in GT at all, I can get a pile of videos out to demonstrate but I would rather keep this about Forza and not GT.

 

[Joey D]

You don't drift like that in GT at all, I can get a pile of videos out to demonstrate but I would rather keep this about Forza and not GT.

Seems jerky and unrealistic to me when compared with the real footage. You can't get a game steering wheel to ever act realistic, especially with force feedback. I do think part of the problem is though that the Xbox wheel doesn't do 900 degrees, although I could be wrong.

 

[Jay]

See how the wheel is constant countersteered during the corner, he just adjusts angle but it never gets straightened out until corner exit, half the time the wheel is upside down and most the time the wheel is way way past the 90 degree mark. The only time he starightens the wheel out during mid corner is when he lost the drift so the car doesn't snap back.

I am not talking about smoothness, real drifting often requires jerking (look at tfujiwara vid for example) but what I am talking about is Landin only turned the wheel max 90 degree either way and kept straightening while in mid drift. His technique (that works) to hold a drift is "right, straight, right, straight, right, straight" while in that GT vid you posted (and feel free to post a LFS vid or something instead) the wheel stays countered throughout the drift and he is just trimming the angle to suit.


FM3 does fo 900 degree now also, with teh Porsche Turbo S wheel that is used in the vid.

 

[tfujiwara]

edit: nevermind...

 

[Joey D]

See how the wheel is constant countersteered during the corner, he just adjusts angle but it never gets straightened out until corner exit, half the time the wheel is upside down and most the time the wheel is way way past the 90 degree mark. The only time he starightens the wheel out during mid corner is when he lost the drift so the car doesn't snap back.

I am not talking about smoothness, real drifting often requires jerking (look at tfujiwara vid for example) but what I am talking about is Landin only turned the wheel max 90 degree either way and kept straightening while in mid drift. His technique (that works) to hold a drift is "right, straight, right, straight, right, straight" while in that GT vid you posted (and feel free to post a LFS vid or something instead) the wheel stays countered throughout the drift and he is just trimming the angle to suit.

That video where he holds it at 90 degrees isn't drifiting, he's letting the car slide around and not actually powering through the corners to perform a drift. And if that is considered drifting then I should go sign up for the D1GP because all I ever do when I attempt to drift is slide backwards into the wall.

I was going on the video tfujiwara posted where he jerks the wheel all around while attempting to drift. Perhaps I should have been clearer on that, defiantly a "my bad".

 

[tfujiwara]

So the guy needed more angle to drift...right?

 

[Jay]

That video where he holds it at 90 degrees isn't drifiting, he's letting the car slide around and not actually powering through the corners to perform a drift. And if that is considered drifting then I should go sign up for the D1GP because all I ever do when I attempt to drift is slide backwards into the wall.

I'm not following you, which video are you talking about? None of them hold at 90 degrees, Landin just twitches you 90 and back again.

 

[Chronos]

I don't know, I've seen enough GT videos to know you have to drift in the same manner with those games too. I think it's just a computer generated thing more than any particular game.

Its not really about GT. Throw up LFS, rfactor, GT or a real life vid and you should see the glaring fundamental problems. Even that vid you linked shows what we're on about.

You seem to focus on 5% of the video and bring GT up?

Lets hope it's some weird physics mode for FM2 players to carry on with Outrun Drift.

I was hoping the replay/rewind mode would be disabled in a serious drift mode as drifting a whole track, lock to lock takes great skill and weight transfer and breaking traction, throttle control and if someone rewinds before every corner then is just ruins it. But if this is it then..

 

[Joey D]

I'm not following you, which video are you talking about? None of them hold at 90 degrees, Landin just twitches you 90 and back again.

Here it looks like he just holds it at 90 degrees most of the time. I see no actual drifting involved.

 

[Jay]

Here it looks like he just holds it at 90 degrees most of the time. I see no actual drifting involved.

He is a real drift driver who is attempting to drift on FM3 for the first time which isn't going well (can't hold it) Landin shows how it's done and it is nothing like this real driver is attempting


Here is the video we are talking about, this is a expert Forza drifter (Landin)



BTW I am not saying it is bad because real drivers/drifters can't do it first time, going from real life to a game always takes adjustment.

 

[Joey D]

Still in that video he's doing pretty basic video game steering commands, I think it's largely an issue with the input device and how games try to simulate reality and can't. I don't know anything about that Porsche wheel, but to me it looks like a really poor input device based on what's going on in the video.

Plus how can you even tell what's going on? The recorder seems more interested in the people watching the guy that what the guy is actually doing.

 

[Chronos]

Near the end of the Chris Forsberg vid it looks like the game is preventing him applying anything remotely to do with with drifting.

Fanatec 911 S is a perfectly good 900° wheel from what I gather, but, I was wondering how it holds up in counter steer lock to lock with the belt drive in LFS and GT5P.

I know you can set the wheel outside of the game to much lower degrees.

 

[Jay]

Still in that video he's doing pretty basic video game steering commands, I think it's largely an issue with the input device and how games try to simulate reality and can't. I don't know anything about that Porsche wheel, but to me it looks like a really poor input device based on what's going on in the video.

Plus how can you even tell what's going on? The recorder seems more interested in the people watching the guy that what the guy is actually doing.

Some examples







Then




If you can't see the difference then it doesn't matter, I'm not trying to bash FM3 here or even compare it with GT, I am just hoping they will fix the issue.


As for the Porsche wheel after paying $300+ USD I hope it's not a poor input device

I know you can set the wheel outside of the game to much lower degrees.

This could be the case but you can see the other guys have way more angle to use.

 

[Joey D]

None of those look ever remotely close to the real thing. I still don't know if it's the input device or not, I don't use them often and when I do it's a Logitech Momo wheel. I still think input devices like steering wheels for computers and consoles have a long way to go before they are realistic at all. But enough of this, lets carry on.

 

[Jay]

You can clearly see the others (GT5P, LFS) spining the wheels to get adequate steering angle then holding and making adjustments until corner exit, just like the real video I posted.

 

[tfujiwara]

You can clearly see the others (GT5P, LFS) spining the wheels to get adequate steering angle then holding and making adjustments until corner exit, just like the real video I posted.

I was about to say that.....LOL

But in the video where Chris F. is attempting to drift, you can hear him saying whats realistic and what not. Then you can see the guy in the red shirt writing something down. So T10 will improve more.

 

[YSSMAN]

You can clearly see the others (GT5P, LFS) spining the wheels to get adequate steering angle then holding and making adjustments until corner exit, just like the real video I posted.

Yes. There very well could be an issue with the calibration of the input device, no? I don't drift often in games, but its different in every one. Some games requires constant fiddling with the control stick, others don't. Am I worried? No. Its a racing game, not a drifting game.




Also, ever get the feeling that the thread looks like this:

 

[tfujiwara]

WTF?! how would you feel that?

 

[Jay]

Yes. There very well could be an issue with the calibration of the input device, no? I don't drift often in games, but its different in every one. Some games requires constant fiddling with the control stick, others don't.

Yeah could be, thats why I said before it might be a control interface problem, this is Turn 10's first attempt at 900 degree wheels. I know the wheel is high quality but the way the game interacts with it might not be polished yet.

 

[Chronos]

None of those look ever remotely close to the real thing. I still don't know if it's the input device or not, I don't use them often and when I do it's a Logitech Momo wheel. I still think input devices like steering wheels for computers and consoles have a long way to go before they are realistic at all. But enough of this, lets carry on.

You're not seeing the basic principles of what's required to drift. All the videos that Jay posted share the same, doesn't matter if its real-life, LFS or GT5p. Then you have the FM3 with it all omitted. No-one is saying LFS is 100% accurate.

Like I said, lets hope its some mode carried over from FM2 and the full one is being worked on or not shown, or some physics and wheel set up problems (it is the first game to support 900°). I've no problem with the old drift mode being in as everyone can have fun in the game.

I'm put off from buying a Fanatec at the moment if its not supported properly. It seems a tremendous wheel for standard driving in any sim style game out there.

EDIT: What's with the picture? Some glaring issues are apparent.

What a strange reaction.

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

I hope they pull off the physics. So far for a Console game GT5p has the best/realistic Drifting Feel with the G25 i have fealt (with the correct settings and tires). As for a sim in general, Live For Speed Hands down has the best and most realistic Drifting physics (or physics in General). I have drifted my real car at a few events and occasionally get it sideways on empty roads when it's wet out so i have a fair comparison. I just don't see myself springing for the Fanatec wheel, I wish the G25 Shifter worked with the Fanatec wheel like the G25 pedals do, would save me more money as well.

 

[oqvist]

The Fanatec wheels is much smoother in the force feedback than the G25. Though if you crank it up it´s stronger so it´s harder being smooth with it then. As for force feedback feel it´s mostly in the software that limits them. Look at the different PC titles and how much the ffb feel differs! Remember not all sims have feedback that is realistic they are often used as aid so you get more information on how your car is doing. Since you can´t feel G-forces that well while racing otherwise

But it´s not the wheel it´s the implementation and the game physics that would limit it. On PC sims there is really no comparison to the G25. GT 3 RS and 911 Turbo is pretty much identical to the Turbo S internally no bigger differences.

As for extreme angles well as mentioned that was a cosession to the gamepad drivers in Forza 2 so it´s very possible it´s still in there .

I am quite hesitant about all this drifting. I mean it´s superb for Project Gotham Racing but why should serious sims get infected by this virus that seems to spread everywhere... Drifting around corners is NOT the fastest way around. Sure have it in separate modes but don´t put it in scoring points for great powerslides in the real career... I mean 9x out of 10 it´s a misstake why should it be rewarded???

 

[Stevisiov]

Yes. There very well could be an issue with the calibration of the input device, no? I don't drift often in games, but its different in every one. Some games requires constant fiddling with the control stick, others don't. Am I worried? No. Its a racing game, not a drifting game.

Well the problem with saying 'I race, so I don't care if the drifting is wrong', is that the Drifting is fundementally linked to racing through the physics engine. If the drifting is incorrect then it means there is something wrong with the oversteer model, and oversteer is very definitely a part of racing, even if the aim is to minimise oversteer.

It's impossible to tell from a video what the problem is, other than something isn't right. The best case scenario is that the fanatec is not correctly calibrated yet. A more serious issue would be a problem with the tyre physics (which is notoriously difficult to model). Even then, it may only be a issue which occurs, with the major slip angles that a normally associated with drifting. If that is indeed the case, then it shouldn't affect racing much, other than the rare occasion where you get things wrong, and get a bit sideways.

It's pointless trying to draw any conclusions from the video, but it it is something worth checking when you slot the Forza DVD into the 360 in a few months time.

As for the trolling joke, was it really necessitated? I don't really see many trolls floating around this thread, if members make some relevant observations and bring them to light, what's wrong with that?