Forza Motorsport 7: Confirmed Car List

[Nielsen]

Is it unlikely to think that Toyota licensing could be sorted after FM7 gets released? The cars could then be distributed as Forzathon prizes at some point in 2018. I'm aware that Volkswagen never reached FH3, but I'm pretty sure the Porsche deal was signed after FH3 was released, leading to the myriad of Porsche DLC. I suppose nothing is impossible.

For gull's sake, Toyota road cars are just too significant to let go. Ironically enough, the fully modelled Supra RZ in previous Forza games was one of the reasons why I bought myself and Xbox One with FM6 so I could move on from GT6 and forget the whole standard car headache. Ok, FM7 will launch with +700 cars, including the biggest collection of Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini, but losing Toyota also feels like Forza losing an essential part of the car encyclopaedia approach Forza has taken to challenge the classic Gran Turismo formula.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Can we leave the PCARS2 salesman pitches to threads about PCARS2?

The problem with that is I'm not quite sure what "new" models they could throw in, as far as roadcars go at least. A few older Corolla based models and some JZX sedans perhaps, but even then, hardly worth the 8,99$.

I thought the FM6 Porsche pack wasn't too bad either... A bit on the pricey side sure, but you at least got a bunch of brand specific events and a new track too. They could do it that way too, but since Toyota's home track is the extremely bland and boring Fuji Speedway, I think I'd pass, really.

The FM6 expansions were interesting to me because of the much better approach to the offline careers in them. From my time with FM7, it seems those have influenced the new game, which is good.

Yeah, Fuji is boring, and I can't see enough modern Toyotas to justify a 20-car pack. That's why I suggested the FH3 Porsche approach. Just off the top of my head:

• Yaris GRNM
• CH-R (yes, really - with N24 body kit options)
• Updated 86 (maybe even the JDM-only GRNM)
• Camry Sport (bring back the everyday cars!)
• S-FR (if it is indeed going into production)
• Some JDM-only drift machine from the last 10-15 years
• The big deal: the reborn Supra that's coming from the BMW collaboration.

Even though they're apparently already safe, that list could be sexed up with some Toyota race cars. I think it'd do decently, if the license can be resolved.

Is it unlikely to think that Toyota licensing could be sorted after FM7 gets released? The cars could then be distributed as Forzathon prizes at some point in 2018. I'm aware that Volkswagen never reached FH3, but I'm pretty sure the Porsche deal was signed after FH3 was released, leading to the myriad of Porsche DLC. I suppose nothing is impossible.

That's what I'm hoping for, honestly. The track record isn't conclusive: Porsche was sorted in FM4 post-release, but VW was never included in FH3 (at least, not yet).

There is another thing to consider: it's possible Toyota revoked the license due to the FH3 leaks. The Sport 800 being found, for instance: for all we know, that was only in there for testing purposes, not intended for release until FM7. I've heard of these sorts of things being hurdles with auto manufacturers before — not saying it definitely is the reason, but it's a potential one.

 

[breyzipp]

That was exactly my point: it seems that T10 has privileged access to data from Porsche which is allowing them to implement Porsche cars before any other developer without the signing of any exclusivity deals.

Well my point was that Porsche doesn't need to share their secret data with Turn 10 because it's a simcade game with a basic handling model. Apart from some basic stats Turn 10 doesn't need more than the 3D scan/CAD of the actual car to get going (and the license ofc).

 

[ImaRobot]

Well my point was that Porsche doesn't need to share their secret data with Turn 10 because it's a simcade game with a basic handling model. Apart from some basic stats Turn 10 doesn't need more than the 3D scan/CAD of the actual car to get going (and the license ofc).

No, they'd still have the same data acquired as the other guys, what it comes down to is how they implement it into the game. Horizon is the simcade game, I think Forza fits perfectly into the "Simulation" catagory, just not as high ranking as the game that is literally, specifically, aiming to be the utmost in physics simulation.

 

[McLaren]

I'd like to see some evidence behind these "basic stats" claims, as if T10 takes performance figures and then just runs them through a generic physics system....

 

[Stang616]

No, they'd still have the same data acquired as the other guys, what it comes down to is how they implement it into the game. Horizon is the simcade game, I think Forza fits perfectly into the "Simulation" catagory, just not as high ranking as the game that is literally, specifically, aiming to be the utmost in physics simulation.

I agree here. PCars is no more of a simulation than Forza is, it just uses a different physics system.

I'd like to see some evidence behind these "basic stats" claims, as if T10 takes performance figures and then just runs them through a generic physics system....

As would I, but there probably isn't any evidence to back up those claims.

 

[ClydeYellow]

Well my point was that Porsche doesn't need to share their secret data with Turn 10 because it's a simcade game with a basic handling model. Apart from some basic stats Turn 10 doesn't need more than the 3D scan/CAD of the actual car to get going (and the license ofc).

And your point has nothing to do with mine. Rival manufacturers and teams could learn enough about a racecar's aerodynamics just by having access to an accurate 3d model; it doesn't matter if that model is dropped in a game with Ridge Racer "physics", because even the most accurate racing simulator can't process a tenth of the telemetry data teams use to develop their cars. As an example, even if the 2017 919 came without Forzavista, Toyota'd still be able to take a very good look at crucial areas, like the front wheel flares and rear diffuser. This is why you will rarely see current-year racecars feature in videogames, show up at car shows, etc., and it's also one of the many reasons paddock access has become much more restricted in the last two decades (three if we're talking about F1): teams don't want you to look at their cars, because that's all it takes for an engineer to understand a clever aero trick. And with access to a 3d model it wouldn't be too hard to produce an actual simulation of a car's aerodynamics.

This is why I said that while the presence of the 991 911 GT2 can be taken as conclusive proof of a special kind of licensing deal between T10 and Porsche, the 919 appearing so soon in Forza may not have to do with Dan Greenwalt's persuasive powers, may have to do with the fact that they simply don't care about their car being copied anymore, and we may see it appear in other car games soon.

Also, I find the notion that Forza is a simcade while pCars is a simulator very laughable - but let's leave it at that, shall we?

P.S. please bear in mind that 3d models / CAD drawings, photographic references, sound recordings et all fall under the definition of "data" and are necessary to implement a car in a videogame. And I think the static 919 parked in T10's new offices is quite a huge lump of "data".

 

[DeadHero]

Well my point was that Porsche doesn't need to share their secret data with Turn 10 because it's a simcade game with a basic handling model. Apart from some basic stats Turn 10 doesn't need more than the 3D scan/CAD of the actual car to get going (and the license ofc).

Probably something more than just the 3D model (in the case of the 919, the one used for the reveal), but not much on the ERS and other things, since they don't provide all the settings that AC offers.

 

[longshot1314]

This does seem to be an issue with toyota and not developers. most recent iterations of dirt had no toyotas, as have any of the recent grid games, the crew, and the ones that have had cars have only had a few, not to mention the previews for the upcoming games only having the 86 or race cars. Speculation seems to be that they want to focus on the new cars for promotion, especially given the cult status of the previous supra and the fact that the new supra is around the corner. someone over at the t10 forums stated that it may be due to toyota wanting to promote the new supra and have the new supra be the only car the nameplate would be associated with. another thought may be with the new supra coming that they may try to do a collaboration for the supra release where for games they'd drop toyota dlc content including the new supra as a promotion and to provide more visibility. i would hope that would be the case instead but who knows. definitely been noted in the past that toyota has been difficult to gain licensing from. there's also been the idea that toyota is aware of the cult status of many of their older cars have and they've become increasingly self conscious of it given their present lineup gets nowhere near the degree of variety and versatility previous years had. reminds me of dealership near me where the wall mural in the showroom was a picture containing the 90s supra, celica, mr2 and the ae86 and i jokingly said that anyone who walked in and saw that would walk right backout because you'd see that and then notice that the actual cars in the showroom were just the prius, camry, corolla and whatever flavor of crossover they had on hand.

 

[Nielsen]

This does seem to be an issue with toyota and not developers. most recent iterations of dirt had no toyotas, as have any of the recent grid games, the crew, and the ones that have had cars have only had a few, not to mention the previews for the upcoming games only having the 86 or race cars. Speculation seems to be that they want to focus on the new cars for promotion, especially given the cult status of the previous supra and the fact that the new supra is around the corner. someone over at the t10 forums stated that it may be due to toyota wanting to promote the new supra and have the new supra be the only car the nameplate would be associated with. another thought may be with the new supra coming that they may try to do a collaboration for the supra release where for games they'd drop toyota dlc content including the new supra as a promotion and to provide more visibility. i would hope that would be the case instead but who knows. definitely been noted in the past that toyota has been difficult to gain licensing from. there's also been the idea that toyota is aware of the cult status of many of their older cars have and they've become increasingly self conscious of it given their present lineup gets nowhere near the degree of variety and versatility previous years had. reminds me of dealership near me where the wall mural in the showroom was a picture containing the 90s supra, celica, mr2 and the ae86 and i jokingly said that anyone who walked in and saw that would walk right backout because you'd see that and then notice that the actual cars in the showroom were just the prius, camry, corolla and whatever flavor of crossover they had on hand.

Not unlikely but in that case it seems like reverse logic on Toyota's part. The new Supra is sought after largely because of its legendary heritage. Any manufacturer should embrace a fortunate position like this, not hide it away.

 

[GroupB]

The most likely answer is the most obvious one: money. I know the DiRT developers said they wanted to keep featuring Toyota in the series, but the asking price was way out of line.

 

[The_Paladin]

My sure Toyota guys are being stupid, their production cars (except the GT86) are not missing from every new game. I´m quite disappointed with this news, I love the Celica GT4 ST205 and the Supra MK4.

 

[Dsavage27]

If all these newer racing games lack Toyotas due to licensing, only question I have is...who has the damn license? Or is Toyota being selfish towards everybody for whatever reason?

 

[EngieDiesel]

If all these newer racing games lack Toyotas due to licensing, only question I have is...who has the damn license? Or is Toyota being selfish towards everybody for whatever reason?

It could be any number of things. Toyota may have decided they're big enough that they don't need representation in video games anymore, or maybe it doesn't fit the image they're trying to project with their road cars now. Maybe some no-name bean counter deep in the bowels of Toyota's financial division said the resources needed to hammer out a licensing deal for cars that hadn't been sold in at least a decade weren't giving enough return on investment. Maybe the ghost of Kiichiro Toyoda manifested in the boardroom one day and threatened to curse the CEO's family with a thousand years of shame.

I doubt we'll know the full details, because Turn 10 won't say anything that may jeopardize the chance of getting the license later on, and Toyota obviously won't feel any need to explain.

 

[skazz]

I was thinking it could be as simple as Toyota wanting to license cars only if their full modern hybrid line-up are also included (modern brand representation), and T10 not wanting Prius and Auris in game....

 

[breyzipp]

I was thinking it could be as simple as Toyota wanting to license cars only if their full modern hybrid line-up are also included (modern brand representation), and T10 not wanting Prius and Auris in game....

Honestly if that was the reason then I would think that the Prius and Auris would be in at launch. But I can see a point as well as what has been hinted before, in Toyota not really liking the fact that their road cars / sports cars of the past are much sexier than their current line-up of crappy road cars (minus the GT86 ofc, that one is stellar!). So maybe they think it gives a bad overal image for the company brand, one of not really going forward but backwards.

Reminds me about this hilarious Top Gear video about Peugeot.

 

[Ryan81]

Thing is Toyota haven't really got any modern sports cars to showcase with the exception of the GT86 and even that is a low level one. They used to have so many Supra variants, MR2s, Celicas, Soarers, sporty Corollas etc back in the early 2000s but particularly in the 90s. That's all gone and they seem to now market their cars towards practicality and economy rather than fun. Personally I'm not bothered. Hardly ever use Toyotas in my racing games although ironically I drive one IRL lol.

 

[ClydeYellow]

Honestly if that was the reason then I would think that the Prius and Auris would be in at launch. But I can see a point as well as what has been hinted before, in Toyota not really liking the fact that their road cars / sports cars of the past are much sexier than their current line-up of crappy road cars

Exactly. Imagine if FM7 featured the Prius and Auris right next to the great Celicas, Corollas and Supras of days past! It'd be a blow to their "sporty" image even greater than T10 only featuring older cars. Right now Toyota is working to step back in the sportscar business, and I can understand why their marketing honchos (misguided poor souls, but then they wouldn't work in marketing if they weren't) wouldn't want to risk making a fame as "hybrid crapbox makers" amongst people who play Forza, or Gran Turismo, or pCars or whatever other car game.

Anyways, if that's the case - and it may as well be, seeing that there is no other possible explaination for this decision - Toyota road cars may be back as soon as their lineup looks less lackluster (ie. when the Supra and whatever will come out of the development of the S-FR concept will hit the markets). And likewise, I wouldn't be too afraid about Lexus suffering the same fate, seeing as the lineup in past games's been thorougly contemporary, with the exception of the old Soarer. But only time will tell.

 

[buickgnx88]

Exactly. Imagine if FM7 featured the Prius and Auris right next to the great Celicas, Corollas and Supras of days past! It'd be a blow to their "sporty" image even greater than T10 only featuring older cars. Right now Toyota is working to step back in the sportscar business, and I can understand why their marketing honchos (misguided poor souls, but then they wouldn't work in marketing if they weren't) wouldn't want to risk making a fame as "hybrid crapbox makers" amongst people who play Forza, or Gran Turismo, or pCars or whatever other car game.

The thing is though, FM4 had a Prius in it (as well as a Volt), along with some other basic transport like the Aygo and the Yaris. I don't think it was an issue back then at all. Besides, what Forza is missing as of late are the semi-sporty sedans that were featured in the past (Ford Taurus SHO, Ford Fusion Sport, Chevy Impala SS, etc.) and so something like, whatever the current sporty Camry model is, would fit in.

 

[VXR]

If I was Toyota, I'd consider the legacy nature of the SW20, AE86 and A70 were good enough reason to cancel the license. They're hardly doing Toyota's intellectual property justice, especially the state the MR2 was in.

 

[breyzipp]

If I was Toyota, I'd consider the legacy nature of the SW20, AE86 and A70 were good enough reason to cancel the license. They're hardly doing Toyota's intellectual property justice, especially the state the MR2 was in.

You could be onto something as both MR2's were already missing in FH3.

 

[Nielsen]

But I can see a point as well as what has been hinted before, in Toyota not really liking the fact that their road cars / sports cars of the past are much sexier than their current line-up of crappy road cars (minus the GT86 ofc, that one is stellar!). So maybe they think it gives a bad overal image for the company brand, one of not really going forward but backwards.

Exactly. Imagine if FM7 featured the Prius and Auris right next to the great Celicas, Corollas and Supras of days past! It'd be a blow to their "sporty" image even greater than T10 only featuring older cars. Right now Toyota is working to step back in the sportscar business, and I can understand why their marketing honchos (misguided poor souls, but then they wouldn't work in marketing if they weren't) wouldn't want to risk making a fame as "hybrid crapbox makers" amongst people who play Forza, or Gran Turismo, or pCars or whatever other car game.

Anyways, if that's the case - and it may as well be, seeing that there is no other possible explaination for this decision - Toyota road cars may be back as soon as their lineup looks less lackluster (ie. when the Supra and whatever will come out of the development of the S-FR concept will hit the markets). And likewise, I wouldn't be too afraid about Lexus suffering the same fate, seeing as the lineup in past games's been thorougly contemporary, with the exception of the old Soarer. But only time will tell.

Imagine if Japanese manufacturers like Mitsubishi and Mazda also took on this line of thinking. What a great classic JDM lineup we'd end up with.

That said, I'm not convinced Toyota doesn't want their old lineup of sporty cars featured in games anymore. The GT86 is relatively new and it demonstrates they still have it in them. Look at Honda and Nissan compared to then and now. Like Toyota, they are still selling a sportscar or two, but the Silvia, Prelude and S2000 are all living on in Forza. Toyota would be really strange for seeing things differently.

 

[ClydeYellow]

The thing is though, FM4 had a Prius in it (as well as a Volt), along with some other basic transport like the Aygo and the Yaris. I don't think it was an issue back then at all. Besides, what Forza is missing as of late are the semi-sporty sedans that were featured in the past (Ford Taurus SHO, Ford Fusion Sport, Chevy Impala SS, etc.) and so something like, whatever the current sporty Camry model is, would fit in.

Clearly back then both T10 and Toyota had different priorities. Namely, in 2011 Toyota was quite content with their image as the world's leading manufacturer of conventional and hybrid econoboxes. Now only showing up with Yarises and Camrys would reflect poorly on their reputation as a sportscar maker. I wouldn't be surprised, however, to see sportier models of their more pedestrian cars find their way back in car games in a more remote future - after they'll manage to show they got their mojo back with whatever will come off the collaboration with BMW and the development of the S-FR. On the other hand, T10 was clearly trying to find a balance in their carlist - with FM5 they cleared their house, and now they're going in a different direction (only including underpowered oddballs when they're vintage and sufficiently iconic, or so it'd seem). If anything, I wish they could differentiate Horizon and Motorsport even further, by adding more pedestrian cars to the former's roster and maybe trimming the latter's car list a bit.

If I was Toyota, I'd consider the legacy nature of the SW20, AE86 and A70 were good enough reason to cancel the license. They're hardly doing Toyota's intellectual property justice, especially the state the MR2 was in.

This could also be a factor. The SW20 MR2 has basically become a running joke (and the source of much frustration) with the community. However, many other Toyotas in the game (like the A80 Supra, the A20 Celica, the E20 Corolla and the AW10 MR) are/were excellent; if Toyota had an issue with the way some specific models were implemented, it would've made more sense to not license them (and them only) until T10 adressed their many quality issues.

The GT86 is relatively new and it demonstrates they still have it in them. Look at Honda and Nissan compared to then and now. Like Toyota, they are still selling a sportscar or two, but the Silvia, Prelude and S2000 are all living on in Forza. Toyota would be really strange for seeing things differently.

The difference is that Nissan is also selling the 370Z and the GT-R: both cars are the continuation of the heritage established with the vintage cars Forza features. Honda is still making the Civic Type-R and the NSX, Mazda's MX5 is as healthy as ever, and Mitsubishi is too; on the other hand, Toyota don't independently produce any sportscar (the 86 is produced at Subaru's Gunma plant, and is powered by an engine which uses Subaru's trademark boxer layout), and have in fact killed all their "heritage" nameplates. It's a different situation. And you have to consider the fact that they're preparing to against their carefully constructed reputation as a "sensible" car maker by launching two sports models - for which they'll have to build a new legacy, because they've thrown the old one to the weeds.

But of course we're all just speculating, trying to make sense of a baffling decision more than anything. Any guess is as good as any other, especially at this stage. Maybe we'll know more tomorrow, and maybe we'll see Toyota again the next game, or the game after that, or maybe even in DLC, who knows.

 

[Populuxe]

People keep saying that other than the GT86, Toyota has no performance cars currently in production, and that's just not true. It's just that they're all being sold by the Lexus brand. The LF-A is still in very recent memory, the LC and RF coupes are very desirable, and the GS F is a world class sports sedan. A lackluster lineup might be the reason they aren't licensing any new Toyotas, but it doesn't explain the refusal to license any new Lexus production cars.

 

[Nielsen]

The difference is that Nissan is also selling the 370Z and the GT-R: both cars are the continuation of the heritage established with the vintage cars Forza features. Honda is still making the Civic Type-R and the NSX, Mazda's MX5 is as healthy as ever, and Mitsubishi is too; on the other hand, Toyota don't independently produce any sportscar (the 86 is produced at Subaru's Gunma plant, and is powered by an engine which uses Subaru's trademark boxer layout), and have in fact killed all their "heritage" nameplates. It's a different situation. And you have to consider the fact that they're preparing to against their carefully constructed reputation as a "sensible" car maker by launching two sports models - for which they'll have to build a new legacy, because they've thrown the old one to the weeds.

Fair points about the Z, GT-R, Type-R and NSX nameplates. Still, the GT86 is positioned as spiritual successor to the Celica despite its Subaru underpinnings. I don't really see the problem in a gaming context, especially not when the car is going to be featured in Project CARS 2 later this year. Mitsubishi though? No FTO, GTO, Eclipse or replacements in their current lineup, and even the Lancer Evolution has been discontinued. Worse than Toyota's situation despite all the rumblings about the next Supra launching under the Gazoo brand and so on. True that Mazda still has the MX-5 but also a shadow of its sporty image back when the RX series was a thing. So I maintain that Toyota would be too strange for following some "old cars too cool" licensing strategy. As @Populuxe Cowboy says above, Lexus is not exactly selling boring cars, but apparently not in FM7 as well. I'm inclined to think the reason is simple rather than complex.

 

[ClydeYellow]

Fair points about the Z, GT-R, Type-R and NSX nameplates. Still, the GT86 is positioned as spiritual successor to the Celica despite its Subaru underpinnings. I don't really see the problem in a gaming context, especially not when the car is going to be featured in Project CARS 2 later this year. Mitsubishi though? No FTO, GTO, Eclipse or replacements in their current lineup, and even the Lancer Evolution has been discontinued. Worse than Toyota's situation despite all the rumblings about the next Supra launching under the Gazoo brand and so on. True that Mazda still has the MX-5 but also a shadow of its sporty image back when the RX series was a thing. So I maintain that Toyota would be too strange for following some "old cars too cool" licensing strategy. As @Populuxe Cowboy says above, Lexus is not exactly selling boring cars, but apparently not in FM7 as well. I'm inclined to think the reason is simple rather than complex.

Well, I don't think that's a problem for Mitsubishi - it's clear that at the moment they couldn't care less about being seen as someone who used to make a lot of cool cars, but eventually turned to only producing hybrid beigemobiles. They've fully embraced that image. Toyota, on the other hand, may have some problems with their years of inactivity preventing people from taking them seriously as a sportscar maker anymore. That's the same reason we're getting rumors that the Supra may be sold under the Gazoo brand.

As for the absence of Lexus, that's still not confirmed - although it's reasonable to think it may be, seeing as Infiniti and Acura were included in the "JDM" Garage Week. If that's the case, then my theory would be absolutely invalid and the reason we're not getting any Toyota production vehicle in FM7 may be even more mind-numbingly daft.

 

[Rob_Willshire]

for circuit wise....the first pic with the Civic Type R.........that's definetley Virginia Internaional Raceway.

The second pic with the NSX, I'm not sure where that is

 

[RazorSharkz]

Honestly if Toyota not being in is because they insisted the Prius and Auris be included, then I'm super dissapointed. I love cars that shouldn't be racing being included in racing games. Also it's not like they'd be alone, if we can get the Reliant Regal and an Issetta then why not a Prius?

 

[Northstar]

Honestly if Toyota not being in is because they insisted the Prius and Auris be included, then I'm super dissapointed. I love cars that shouldn't be racing being included in racing games. Also it's not like they'd be alone, if we can get the Reliant Regal and an Issetta then why not a Prius?

I highly doubt that's the reason considering the Prius has been in Forza before.

 

[AMR Matthijs]

for circuit wise....the first pic with the Civic Type R.........that's definetley Virginia Internaional Raceway.

The second pic with the NSX, I'm not sure where that is

Have also been trying to find out what track the NSX is on. I saw some people have guessed it's Top Gear, but I can't find such a barrier on that track.

Honestly if Toyota not being in is because they insisted the Prius and Auris be included, then I'm super dissapointed. I love cars that shouldn't be racing being included in racing games. Also it's not like they'd be alone, if we can get the Reliant Regal and an Issetta then why not a Prius?

Let's not over speculate on the reasons why Toyota production cars will not be part of Forza Motorsport 7. More in tomorrow's Week in Review on Forzamotorsport.net