Forza Motorsport 7: Confirmed Car List

[DDastardly00]

Sad. I will miss the Supra MKIII and MKIV, the MR2 MK2 and the Celica ST185 and ST205, those are some of my favorite cars to race, paint and tune. I hope the news isn't true, or if it is, they are able to work something out with Toyota, the largest car manufacturer on earth.

 

[NoGoodNames]

Definitely a tough loss with most of Toyota and Lexus (and probably Scion too, as they were owned by Toyota too) being gone. Of course we still have the race cars, such as the GT-One, plus all the NASCARs that will obviously feature.

 

[PJTierney]

If there's one thing I know from working on the same floor as a team who releases a football (soccer) game every year, licensing is a vastly complicated beast. I can make some guesses as to why we won't have production model Toyotas but it's all speculation.

At least we get some race cars, and thankfully we still have Honda, Nissan and Mazda for some solid track-day rides.

 

[willbsn13]

If there's one thing I know from working on the same floor as a team who releases a football (soccer) game every year, licensing is a vastly complicated beast. I can make some guesses as to why we won't have production model Toyotas but it's all speculation.

I assume you're talking about PES (Pro Evolution Soccer)? I'd be interested in hearing about these complex licensing issues from PES. I know applying them to this situation is all speculation but it's all we're gonna get at this stage.

 

[Yui-san]

It seems like T10 had licencing issues with Toyota since last year... when the Logitech DLC car pack came out last December, the Mk3 Supra was not featured in the car pack trailer, nor did it get an official screenshot, despite being part of the car pack.

 

[Northstar]

Just noticed the Starion is back, I loved that thing in FM4.

Also, the current "real" car list sits at 298 (I'm keeping a list that doesn't count duplicates as separate cars), there hasn't been many duplicates so far, than again we haven't see many race cars so far.

 

[queleuleu]

Microsoft is a sponsor of the Yaris WRC...
Something fishy.

 

[DeolTheBeast]

They should add the Porsche 935/76 then we have the full arsenal! (excluding the Kremer variants)

935/76 => Forza 7 then
935/77 => Project CARS 2
935/78 "Moby Dick" => Assetto Corsa
935/80 => Project CARS 2

That 917K is in Assetto Corsa as well by the way. That Porsche race car list over there (both old and new) is just awesome. Also the 911 R is in as well (intriguing car - true raw manual unassisted power!) and the new 2017 911 RSR (GTE).

I like FM's list for the vintage and retro road cars and sports cars though, some real gems in there as well since FH3. And I absolutely like the "poor men's Porsche" AKA 944 as well. Also good to see the 914 returning, always wondered why that didn't make it into FH3. Aah well, maybe august Forzathon.

Looks like Project Cars and AC have really gone all out on the Porsche car list like you say.

Forza could continue on the "ordinary" Porsche movement with the 928 and 968 for a start IMO.

 

[FerrariF1GT]

Like the Volkswagen fiasco before it, I think this looks like a huge blow on both parties - Turn 10 for not being able to show off cars from the largest automaker in the world and Toyota for deliberately turning down *another* opportunity to advertise their cars.

The current production Toyota/Lexus list in GT Sport is less than stellar by Gran Turismo standards and PCARS 2's only production Toyota is an 86 (which is understandable considering they are both designed to emulate modern, competitive, and hardcore racing), but on the other hand Assetto got a few Toyotas as DLC (apart from race cars, three AE86s, three Mk4 Supras, and a GT86, which isn't very broad in my opinion). Apart from the "old" Gran Turismo games and Forza, there isn't much Toyota representation in racing games, but it's understandable because the other games don't intend to showcase a car encyclopaedia.

If Toyota simply wasn't interested anymore, good on them. Toyota's licensing staff is entitled to turn down the offer.

On the bright side, at least there's still hope for race cars. Hopefully the GT-One returns at the very minimum. The Avensis BTCC car and the Camry NASCAR car also seem plausible. The TS040 might stay, but I think that it might be replaced by the TS050 if Toyota isn't okay with them being together. The WRC Yaris is possible considering Microsoft sponsors it, even if it doesn't belong on asphalt. Heck, bring on the Toyota/Lexus Super GT cars if that's still possible!

I hope that Turn 10 has some tricks under their sleeve regarding tracks - with Suzuka and Mugello confirmed, I have high expectations.

@willbsn13 - I think PJ is talking about PES because I read that he works for Konami. Its rival, EA's FIFA franchise, has exclusive rights to some leagues and clubs if I remember correctly.

 

[jake2013guy]

From this list, it seems that there are only 2 race cars. I'm surprised if this is the full list from these manufacturers.

 

[willbsn13]

From this list, it seems that there are only 2 race cars. I'm surprised if this is the full list from these manufacturers.

I won't be. Today was just focusing on the production side of the Japanese roster. There are plenty of racing cars from those manufacturers to come for sure, from previous games and hopefully some new ones.

 

[Anonanon]

Is the Top secret supra considered a production car?

I really want to know this too.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

While Toyota's production cars are out of the question, I can still see some work-arounds with the models I'll miss. Turn 10 could add some more of Toyota's race cars then. The TS010 Endurance racer, the Pikes Peak Celica, Celica WRCs, Lexus RC F Super GT, the 1995 Supra GT LM, Sard MC8-R, the MR2 Group B Rally Car, & much more could enter Forza 7 if Turn 10 chooses to focus on their race cars.

 

[jake2013guy]

I won't be. Today was just focusing on the production side of the Japanese roster. There are plenty of racing cars from those manufacturers to come for sure, from previous games and hopefully some new ones.

Yeah. That makes sense

 

[Dsavage27]

There's still about 400 cars left to reveal and plenty of room for good cars to come. I'm confident we will see some gems down the road especially race cars. Just be patient guys. I mean previous forza game comebacks should at least be welcomed and there are plenty of good ones so far.

 

[ELmarcotuff]

Wouldn't be great if there was a Toyota expansion pack?

 

[Dsavage27]

Wouldn't be great if there was a Toyota expansion pack?

Yeah and no. Yes to see some production Toyotas come back but no because most if not all of them would be cars we have had in every other forza which is making us pay for an expansion of cars we been driving for 10yrs basically free. Just will have to wait until the next forza game probably

 

[BoneSawTX]

Wouldn't be great if there was a Toyota expansion pack?

Negative, I don't think I could be any more disappointed if that were to happen.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The only way I'd find that sort of thing acceptable is if it's handled like the Porsche pack in FH3:

"Hey guys, we've got a license back! Here's a pack focused on the marque, with a few new models thrown in! Plus, we're going to spend the next couple months tossing the old cars at you for free via easy in-game challenges!"

 

[-Fred-]

The only way I'd find that sort of thing acceptable is if it's handled like the Porsche pack in FH3:

"Hey guys, we've got a license back! Here's a pack focused on the marque, with a few new models thrown in! Plus, we're going to spend the next couple months tossing the old cars at you for free via easy in-game challenges!"

The problem with that is I'm not quite sure what "new" models they could throw in, as far as roadcars go at least. A few older Corolla based models and some JZX sedans perhaps, but even then, hardly worth the 8,99$.

I thought the FM6 Porsche pack wasn't too bad either... A bit on the pricey side sure, but you at least got a bunch of brand specific events and a new track too. They could do it that way too, but since Toyota's home track is the extremely bland and boring Fuji Speedway, I think I'd pass, really.

 

[PJTierney]

I assume you're talking about PES (Pro Evolution Soccer)? I'd be interested in hearing about these complex licensing issues from PES. I know applying them to this situation is all speculation but it's all we're gonna get at this stage.

@FerrariF1GT is right; the PES team is on the same floor as the card game team (which I am a part of). Naturally, I can't talk about the inner-workings and even if I could it's not my place to do so as I don't represent the PES team in any way.

Licensing is all about trying to find a solution that keeps everybody happy and doesn't clash with any pre-existing agreements, either with the parties involved or competitors. Some games may have exclusive rights to certain licenses, some partners may have specific terms and limitations that need to be adhered to and so-on. This is all before the subject of license fees and/or royalties come into play.

Regarding Toyota it's clear that something got in the way of either them or Microsoft to prevent an agreement to use production cars in Forza Motorsport 7. It could be something simple like the deal costing too much money, or something trickier like another game having initial rights to the cars and deciding not to sub-let said rights with Microsoft this time*. We'll never know.


* I may be wrong, but I believe Microsoft had the initial rights to Ferrari road cars back in the Xbox 360 era, and would then sub-let those rights to other games on a case by case basis. The way the current Porsche partnership is going might indicate the same thing is happening there; Forza is Porsche's "official game", but other games can get a selection of Porsche models as well under certain conditions.

 

[Rob192005]

Disappointed not to have Toyota,cars like the JZA80 and the 2000GT would have been nice but at the same time plenty of others to choose from.

 

[Dresden]

Oh well- with Toyota gone it looks like the 'Toyota's stacked end to end would circle the globe...' comment is now a thing of the past. And I am thankful for that. It only reminds me how much I hate Toyota when they block every road on my way to work each day. Lol.

Camry. Grrrr.

I will miss Lexus though. Man they felt sweet to drive and that makes me sad. At least the race cars will (most likely) be there.

And, Turn 10, please do not try to hit me with a May 18 Toyota expansion. I can already play FM6 if I need to fall asleep in those fake leather seats.

 

[VXR]

If the Motorsport side of Toyota is handled separately, maybe Gazoo is as well? Could get the new Yaris GRMN then.

 

[breyzipp]

The way the current Porsche partnership is going might indicate the same thing is happening there; Forza is Porsche's "official game", but other games can get a selection of Porsche models as well under certain conditions.

Uhm if there is one game the "official" Porsche game for sure it's Assetto Corsa since Porsche themselves uses the PRO version of that game (not for normal consumer usage) as their simulator. That is probably also why Assetto Corsa has hands down the best selection of Porsche race cars out there. Kunos and Porsche have the best partnership IMO.

What this 5 year deal between Microsoft and Porsche is is probably nothing more than "yes you will be able to use the Porsche brand in your games for the next 5 years". I think Microsoft got a bit scared of possibly losing the brand in the future (like what happened with VW in FH3 and now Toyota in FM7) and they just wanted to seal a deal that they can't be put on the side by future other deals.

But quite frankly I think Porsche is thrilled to be out of the EA deal that lasted until 2016 and I would be really surprised if they would take on any other exclusive deals for the entire brand at once. Sure exclusive deals for the initial release of a brand new single car is fine, Turn 10 does it with the 911 GT2 RS, SMS does it with the McLaren 720S. As long as the deal is only for 1 car and a limited time period I have no problem with it.

 

[ClydeYellow]

What this 5 year deal between Microsoft and Porsche is is probably nothing more than "yes you will be able to use the Porsche brand in your games for the next 5 years". I think Microsoft got a bit scared of possibly losing the brand in the future (like what happened with VW in FH3 and now Toyota in FM7) and they just wanted to seal a deal that they can't be put on the side by future other deals.

It seems that T10 also gets privileged access to Porsche's cars - as shown by the presentation of new GT2 RS and the inclusion of the current-year 919 Hybrid in FM7's carlist (although that may also have to do with Porsche's decision to retire from LMP1, which means that what's commonly understood as the most important factor for manufacturers to not license their newest racing machinery, the risk of giving relevant data away to their competitors, has become immaterial).

And seeing how damaging signing an exclusive contract with a game developer unable to properly use their intellectual property has been to Porsche's brand recognizability amongst younger people (ie. potential future customers), I do not see them entering any other such agreement anytime soon.


_



Do we have any direct confirmation that Lexus production models will be also missing? I can think of one possible reason Toyota may not want to feature in Forza anymore (how many cars featured in FH3 are part of Toyota's current lineup?), but it doesn't really apply to Lexus, does it?

 

[breyzipp]

It seems that T10 also gets privileged access to Porsche's cars - as shown by the presentation of new GT2 RS and the inclusion of the current-year 919 Hybrid in FM7's carlist (although that may also have to do with Porsche's decision to retire from LMP1, which means that what's commonly understood as the most important factor for manufacturers to not license their newest racing machinery, the risk of giving relevant data away to their competitors, has become immaterial).

And seeing how damaging signing an exclusive contract with a game developer unable to properly use their intellectual property has been to Porsche's brand recognizability amongst younger people (ie. potential future customers), I do not see them entering any other such agreement anytime soon.

Commenting on the bold part here. Well there lies a HUGE difference between Turn 10 and SMS in this case. What Turn 10 basically needs is the 3D model scanned and some basic stats and that's enough to implement the car in the game, Forza has a pretty simplistic handling model anyway. SMS needs a lot more detailed data to accurately simulate these complex cars for Project CARS and there comes the risk you mention. That is also the main reason Project CARS 2's LMP1 lineup is not that sexy, 2 cars from 2014 and 2 fictional cars, but you can be sure those cars from 2014 are simulated in detail.

I have even seen some things as SMS going as far as rejecting a possible car for PCARS 2 because there either was not enough detailed technical info available (vintage car) or else the manufacturer wasn't willing to share that info.

So the 2017 Porsche 919 Hybrid appearing in Forza 7 doesn't per se mean that the car is exclusive to the game, it could also mean that Turn 10 has enough info to get the car working for FM7.

Also if it would appear in PCARS2 that would just be silly since the current LMP1 cars in there are all 2014 spec or in the case of the fictional cars balanced to it. 2017 spec cars are a lot faster and it would unbalance it.

I hope for PCARS3 they will get the 2015 season as that was the best one IMO, with accurately modelled LMP1 cars that's the best grid of the late years with Porsche, Audi, Toyota and even that Nissan GT-R LM.

 

[DeadHero]

Do we have any direct confirmation that Lexus production models will be also missing? I can think of one possible reason Toyota may not want to feature in Forza anymore (how many cars featured in FH3 are part of Toyota's current lineup?), but it doesn't really apply to Lexus, does it?

No idea, but in the FH3 credits they're all listed under Toyota Motor Corp:
"Toyota; Scion; Lexus and all other associated marks emblems and designs are intellectual property of Toyota Motor Corporation and used with its permission" Could mean nothing, though. On a side note, race cars should fall under "Toyota Motorsport GmbH [TMG]" (Maybe that's the reason why they will be featured in Forza 7: two separate "entities", so to speak)

Uhm if there is one game the "official" Porsche game for sure it's Assetto Corsa since Porsche themselves uses the PRO version of that game (not for normal consumer usage) as their simulator. That is probably also why Assetto Corsa has hands down the best selection of Porsche race cars out there. Kunos and Porsche have the best partnership IMO.

Agreed and the level of detail is incredible. Aris (Kunos' physics developer) also went out and asked one of his friends racing the Carrera Cup IRL to share data on fuel usage so they could properly simulate that aspect, which was wrong in iRacing (at first, before they updated their data too).

 

[ImaRobot]

The problem with that is I'm not quite sure what "new" models they could throw in, as far as roadcars go at least. A few older Corolla based models and some JZX sedans perhaps, but even then, hardly worth the 8,99$.

I thought the FM6 Porsche pack wasn't too bad either... A bit on the pricey side sure, but you at least got a bunch of brand specific events and a new track too. They could do it that way too, but since Toyota's home track is the extremely bland and boring Fuji Speedway, I think I'd pass, really.

I'd love to see a Chaser, Aristo or a Cefiro to be honest. They all are similar layouts and can be interchanged I suppose, but I know I can find a few new I'd like to see. This game definitely needs some more Japanese sedans. I don't think I'd want an exclusive pack, but if they manage to throw a couple in with the monthly packs I'd be all for it.

 

[ClydeYellow]

Commenting on the bold part here. Well there lies a HUGE difference between Turn 10 and SMS in this case. What Turn 10 basically needs is the 3D model scanned and some basic stats and that's enough to implement the car in the game, Forza has a pretty simplistic handling model anyway. SMS needs a lot more detailed data to accurately simulate these complex cars for Project CARS and there comes the risk you mention. That is also the main reason Project CARS 2's LMP1 lineup is not that sexy, 2 cars from 2014 and 2 fictional cars, but you can be sure those cars from 2014 are simulated in detail.

I have even seen some things as SMS going as far as rejecting a possible car for PCARS 2 because there either was not enough detailed technical info available (vintage car) or else the manufacturer wasn't willing to share that info.

SMS may hoot and toot as much as they want about the accuracy and completeness of the data they use and the complexity of their handling model, but they don't convince me. And pCars handling model isn't much better than Forza, if I am to compare both with my real-life driving experiences in vehicles featured in the game. Also, you don't really need that much data to accurately simulate a car's behavior for the purposes of a driving game; and there's only so much data that can be processed in a real-time simulation that can be played through gaming PCs and consoles anyways. But pCars' FFB is really miles ahead than Forza's. This is probably where the impression that pCars is such a masterpiece of real-time simulation comes from, and I'll have to agree that it feels much more solid on a wheel than its main console competitor.

Regardless, I was thinking more along the lines of aerodynamics. An accurately visual representation of a racecar may tell more to an engineer than a (inherently incomplete) replica of its physical behavior at speed; and modern videogames effectively provide users with terribly accurate 3d models of racecars which are often based on manufacturers CAD data and may be extracted and used in fluid simulation programs, for example. Of course manufacturers will still be able to understand their competitors secrets through careful observation - but why risk handing your competitors your secrets on a silver platter only to allow a game developer to feature your newest racing machine rather than last years' iteration?

Then there's Forzavista, which essentially provides access to portions of cars that are usually kept well under wraps. I knew Nismo had decided to quit the WEC (or completely ditch their FWD project) the moment I could open the GT-R LM bonnet in FM6. No manufacturer would allow that and risk giving away any advantage they had, if they intended to compete with an evolution of the model the following years.

So the 2017 Porsche 919 Hybrid appearing in Forza 7 doesn't per se mean that the car is exclusive to the game, it could also mean that Turn 10 has enough info to get the car working for FM7.

That was exactly my point: it seems that T10 has privileged access to data from Porsche which is allowing them to implement Porsche cars before any other developer without the signing of any exclusivity deals.